General rules for workbench dimensions?

[Dale Murray]

The situation:
- I want to build a workbench in my basement for hand tool work, all my machines will be out in the garage. (make dust in the garage, make chips in the basement)
- I intend to install a leg vise and and chain vise.
- The open floor space for the bench is 12'x12' after the floor and wall cabinets are in place.
- I have a 120"x30"x2.25" maple butcherblock top for this project.

I know I need to cut it down to a more manageable length but having a hard time determining what that length should be. Are there any rules of thumb for clearance on all sides of a bench? My biggest fear is making it to big which is closely followed by making it to small.

I will be using the bench for jointing, planing, flattening, dovetailing, chisel work, carving, etc.

I know there are many many bench threads, sorry to trow another one on the pile.

[David Weaver]

What about sawing, are you going to put things in the front vise sawing? If you don't, you won't likely need more than a couple feet past the front of the bench. You'll want three or four behind to look at winding sticks.

If you're not going to do mouldings, I'd make a bench 6x2. If you are going to do mouldings, I guess I'd make it 8 but that's getting really tight on space in front of or behind the bench. YOu might just have an extra rigid sticking board instead and stick with six feet. My bench is 6 feet long. Mouldings are the only time I wish it was longer, and even at that you have to have a fairly big workpiece to want to do 8 feet of mouldings at once.

If you learn to use a double iron plane, you can have the bench against the wall and still do all of your flattening working in both directions. My bench is against a wall, I don't have a power jointer that I could use, but I do like to be able to work a plane in an X on any board that's reasonably wide or on panels, and planing with something that doesn't cause tearout even in a heavy cut is a big benefit.

[glenn bradley]

The only general rule I am familiar with is the height based on what you do and how you're built. Length, depth and thickness vary with purpose. If the double-screw vise will be at the end, you obviously need a generous amount of room to be able to work without banging into things. If you're a righty and the leg vise will be on the left, once again, think generously about elbow room and maneuvering room for getting things into and out of the vise. For height I cup my hand as if I am resting my knuckles on the surface. This is a bit high for hand work and a bit low for power work but a comfortable compromise for me. YMMV.

[Dale Murray]

See, this is why I posted this here, well reasoned responses! I doubt I will be making any moldings but that could change. If I went with 7' I could have 30" at each end or I could put the leg vise end another 10" closer to the wall and leave 40" at the twin screw end.

I am a bit over 6' tall and I plan to have the bench off the wall so I can work on both side of it so I doubt I will cut it down to 24", I would like to leave it at 30".

The top has been used as a temporary bench in the garage, I am bringing it in this weekend to make room for some machines I inherited. It will rest on saw horses for now but I do want to cut it down while I have a few extra hands around.

What to do with a 30"x35"x2.25" chunk of wood?

[Charles Wiggins]

I strongly recommend reading Chris Schwarz's second workbench book, The Workbench Design Book: The Art & Philosophy of Building Better Benches (http://www.amazon.com/Workbench-Design-Book-Philosophy-Building/dp/1440310408/). He covers just about everything you'd want to know including the rationale behind these kinds of decisions.

His rules of thumb are roughly these:
-a bench can never be too heavy (You don't want it to move when you're pounding away on a mortise or planing a board.)
-or too long (You can always use more space to spread out parts or support to work on long pieces.)
-but it can be too wide (Tools get lost toward the back of the bench if it is over about 24". He recommends around 22" if you do casework because you can slip the open end of a standard cabinet over the end to work on the sides. If you get narrower than 18" it can get a little tipsy though.)
-or too tall. (This comes down to body mechanics. You want to be able to get your whole body involved when you're working, especially planing. If the bench is too tall you end up doing all the work with your arms and you tire out much faster.)

Reading through the book will help you understand better when you break the rules.

I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Charles

[David Weaver]

Put a bench grinder on one side of it (opposite wall from the bench and parallel to it so the frass goes parallel with the bench on the other side of the room, and not toward the bench) and sharpening stones on the other with a board in between them.

[Charles Wiggins]

What to do with a 30"x35"x2.25" chunk of wood?

Make a joinery bench (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/the-joinery-bench-has-its-time-come)!

[Chris Friesen]

Generally for hand work you want it not deeper than 24" or so, and as long as possible. If using hand planes you need a few feet on either end so you don't bang into things when planing and so you can access the end of the bench. In your case I'd go with 24x84, and place it off-center on your wall so you've got more space by the end vice. This is the size of my bench, so I can testify that it works. I built something like the Holtzapffel bench from Chris Schwarz's book, but now that the Moxon vice is more common I'm not sure I'd do the twin-screw face vice were I to do it again.

Also, according to physics you will get the least sag overall if the top overhangs the legs by about a fifth of the total length on each end (making the distance between the legs 3/5 of the total top length). This overhang also gives space to mount end vices. Put the front edge of the top flush with the front face of the legs, and make the rear jaw of the front vice flush with that. This lets you clamp large objects against the front of the bench.

[Steve Friedman]

Also, according to physics you will get the least sag overall if the top overhangs the legs by about a fifth of the total length on each end (making the distance between the legs 3/5 of the total top length). This overhang also gives space to mount end vices. Put the front edge of the top flush with the front face of the legs, and make the rear jaw of the front vice flush with that. This lets you clamp large objects against the front of the bench.

That's really helpful. I was reading the thread thinking about my next bench and always wondered what the maximum overhang was. I have been thinking of using the new-ish Lee Valley quick release tail vise on a bench without a skirt. I think that vise needs around 18" and wasn't sure how long the base needed to be to support that. I assume that means the bench should be around 7.5' long with 1.5' overhangs at each end. Do you know if there is a maximum length to prevent the overhang from sagging?

Steve

[Richard Line]

Somewhere I ran across a recommendation to have 4 ft. of space off the ends of a bench. Having had to squeeze my small bench (5 ft) into an 8 ft. space, I think the 4 ft. space on the ends is quite reasonable. You could squeeze on the non-end vice end, but not on the end vice end.

[Chris Friesen]

That's really helpful. I was reading the thread thinking about my next bench and always wondered what the maximum overhang was. I have been thinking of using the new-ish Lee Valley quick release tail vise on a bench without a skirt. I think that vise needs around 18" and wasn't sure how long the base needed to be to support that. I assume that means the bench should be around 7.5' long with 1.5' overhangs at each end. Do you know if there is a maximum length to prevent the overhang from sagging?
Steve

There's no "maximum", it just means that the further out it sticks the more it will sag. The one-fifth overhang just equalizes the sag between the end of the bench and the middle of the bench (assuming weight spread equally across the length of the bench).

I have the 9" steel quick release vise from LV. Nominally it needs 18" of space for the guide rods, but that gets reduced by the thickness of the wooden jaw. My bench is 7' long with roughly 16" of overhang past the outer edge of the leg and a 3" thick wooden jaw on the vise.

The fancy Veritas quick release tail vise (which costs almost twice as much but lets you put dog holes closer to the edge of the bench) says it needs 17" of overhang, which I'm sure would be fine.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

That's really helpful. I was reading the thread thinking about my next bench and always wondered what the maximum overhang was. I have been thinking of using the new-ish Lee Valley quick release tail vise on a bench without a skirt. I think that vise needs around 18" and wasn't sure how long the base needed to be to support that. I assume that means the bench should be around 7.5' long with 1.5' overhangs at each end. Do you know if there is a maximum length to prevent the overhang from sagging?

Steve

If you want to keep your bench shorter (not saying you should; but it happens - I needed to to fit the space) LV's length can be worked around. As with all things vise-y, it's probably best to get hardware in hand before building, but Brian at Galoototron made it work with a thicker top (I believe they spec for a thinner top with an apron) and shorter overhang than LV suggests.

http://www.galoototron.com/2012/07/17/workbench-v2-tail-vise/

I've been debating saving the cash for one of those myself. There's still a few things (mostly non-woodworking, my bench gets used for a lot of stuff by both my wife and I) where my Jorgensen tail vise excels; if I replaced it, I'd want to find a place to stick it. Maybe just moving it to the other corner, but it'd be much less accessible there.

[Steve Friedman]

There's no "maximum", it just means that the further out it sticks the more it will sag. The one-fifth overhang just equalizes the sag between the end of the bench and the middle of the bench (assuming weight spread equally across the length of the bench).

I have the 9" steel quick release vise from LV. Nominally it needs 18" of space for the guide rods, but that gets reduced by the thickness of the wooden jaw. My bench is 7' long with roughly 16" of overhang past the outer edge of the leg and a 3" thick wooden jaw on the vise.

The fancy Veritas quick release tail vise (which costs almost twice as much but lets you put dog holes closer to the edge of the bench) says it needs 17" of overhang, which I'm sure would be fine.

Thanks Chris.

I have the Large 10-1/2" LV steel QR vise on the end of mine, which needs 20" (It used to be my front vise). I only had a couple of inches of overhang on that end and knew the bench had a limited life left, so I just used blocking and cut out a part of the stretcher to make it fit. Problem is the blocking puts the vise screw too far away from the top of the bench and needing to keep the mechanism behind the leg forces the bench holes too far away from the edge.

[Steve Friedman]

If you want to keep your bench shorter (not saying you should; but it happens - I needed to to fit the space) LV's length can be worked around. As with all things vise-y, it's probably best to get hardware in hand before building, but Brian at Galoototron made it work with a thicker top (I believe they spec for a thinner top with an apron) and shorter overhang than LV suggests.

http://www.galoototron.com/2012/07/17/workbench-v2-tail-vise/

I've been debating saving the cash for one of those myself. There's still a few things (mostly non-woodworking, my bench gets used for a lot of stuff by both my wife and I) where my Jorgensen tail vise excels; if I replaced it, I'd want to find a place to stick it. Maybe just moving it to the other corner, but it'd be much less accessible there.

Joshua,

Thanks for that link. I like having at least one QR steel vise on the bench because I use it for so many non-working things, but the LV end vise just seems to be the perfect end vise - if you have an apron, or enough overhang to fit it. The Galootron article is really helpful. I would love a 7 or 8 foot bench with 18" overhangs on each end, but that's really stretching the space. My current bench is only 5' long and I would be thrilled with even another foot of length. I never understood the importance of bench length until I tried to assemble a 4' table on a 5' long bench. Yes - lots of stuff ended getting pushed off onto the concrete floor.

Steve

[peter gagliardi]

If I understand it correctly, you will have a vise on only one end? If so, I would recommend using a portion of your off cut as a drop leafon the non vise end with heavy hinges, and a swinging gate leg to support it when you get in a situation where you could use the length. You may be able to position the bench so you don't have to move it to utilize the extra length. It will be plenty strong and sturdy for occasional work support and the like.

[Jim Koepke]

What to do with a 30"x35"x2.25" chunk of wood?

A small workstation, joinery bench or assembly bench would be useful.

A bench that is too long is easier to shorten than a bench made too short is to lengthen.

My space is a bit bigger. Since some of my work uses 8' lengths my plane is for a bench about that long.

As to depth, my plan is to have a tray on the back side or in the middle that can be covered for times when more width is needed.

jtk

[Dale Murray]

I genuinely appreciate all the responses I have received thus far, really good information.
I do intend to read Chris Schwarz's books on benches, I do have one book already though the author escapes me now.
A couple ideas I really like are:
- Joinery bench though I may make it a carving bench instead.
- Making a drop leaf at the end, though, may not be feasible given my space.

7' looks like the optimal length given my space. This was the most important number to come up with since I intend to move it indoors and chop it down to size tomorrow when I have the help around.

I do understand 24" is considered optimal but it takes no more effort for it to be 30" since it already is. What I am considering, since the testimony here has been so effective, is the following:
The front legs would be flush with the front, as they should be. The back legs could be 6" in from the back edge so if I decide to cut it down to 24" it would require zero modification of the supporting structure. I already have jitters about cutting off 3' in length, it may take some time to absorb 6" in depth.

Weight. THIS WILL BE HEAVY, I AM SURE. The area between the legs will have a cabinet with drawers and doors ala the Shaker style. I will leave space between the cabinet and top so as to not interfere with holdfasts. I want the storage but more so I want the stability and weight of the cabinet and contents.

[Steve Friedman]

I genuinely appreciate all the responses I have received thus far, really good information.
I do understand 24" is considered optimal but it takes no more effort for it to be 30" since it already is. What I am considering, since the testimony here has been so effective, is the following:
The front legs would be flush with the front, as they should be. The back legs could be 6" in from the back edge so if I decide to cut it down to 24" it would require zero modification of the supporting structure.

I like that approach. From everything I have read, the 24" standard is based on the ability to reach the far side of the bench. I understand that may be important if the bench up against a wall or you have a tool tray or rack at the far side of the bench that you need tor each. Otherwise, even if you never use the extra 6" of depth, I don't understand how it could hurt. Certainly isn't going to cost you any money to leave it that width.

Steve

[Jim Matthews]

I'm a believer in modular shop aids, for a small shop.

My bench is 5 feet wide, more than 30" front to back.
It's rare that I clamp anything longer than 48" and I have accessories to support the longer stock.

My stock size is limited by what I can swing through the basement doors, or out the bulkhead into my backyard.

Check your space to see what is the real limiting dimension - or you could end up like my friend that built a 16' kayak that became a 13' kayak.
I break my stock down in a separate room, where I keep rough lumber. Not everything needs to take place around the bench.

Three things then;

Get a rubber mat of some kind to stand on and catch tools that are dropped.

Watch Bob Roziaski's podcasts (http://logancabinetshoppe.com/podcast-the-workbench.php) on building a Nicholson style bench - the workholding can appear course, but the physics applied mean fewer vises are needed.

Build a pair of sawbenches (okay, so it's four things) to handle longer, thicker stock.
Our very own Acharaya Kumarswami posted his design for a sawbench (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?176915-Saw-bench-design-to-share) which is very handy.

Combined with a basic sawbench, you can manage most any size lumber.

[Mike Cogswell]

What to do with a 30"x35"x2.25" chunk of wood?


Outfeed table for table saw.
Top for a router table.
Assembly table
Carving bench
Dovetailing bench (w/ a twin screw vise)

[Dale Murray]

I am extremely fortunate in that my basement is at the same level at my garage - so long as the material can get inside my garage and make a 90* corner I am set. Also, the three windows nearest the bench are ground level so I can swing things in and out through there.

I really think 84" is where I should have landed but after a bit of fatherly consultation I opted to 90"; my fathers bench is 96" x 24" and along a 15' long wall. I can always take a little more off if I need to, and most likely will. Also, I still have a 29" x 30" chunk left over. Currently my top is on a couple saw horses near its ultimate destination.

Look for these upcoming threads:
- Leg vises, what did I screw up?
- Twin screw vises, what did I screw up?
- My back, what did I screw up?

Thanks for the advice.

[Adam Cruea]

I will warn you that unless you're an ape, flattening a wide bench top is not the easiest thing.

My bench is 76" x 33.5", made of hickory. I'm still flattening the top (granted, I can only really work on it during the weekends).

[Brian Ashton]

I've worked in many shops over the decades where the benches have been 36x36 all the way up to 60x120 and everything in between... they all did the job they were required to do. Out of that the only general rule for me is don't make it too big that it's cumbersome to manoeuvre around in what ever work space it will be used in. It doesn't matter how pretty, ingenious or equipped it is if it's too big and cumbersome for the space it's in.

Probably the best set up I've seen is a shop where there was a fairly large work bench in the middle of the room (approx 60x120) and about 3 1/2 feet of space around it then more benches all around it that were attached to the walls. Above those benches were the shelves that held the tools. The benches that were attached to the wall had all the vices and other jigs attached to them. The middle bench was strictly for assembly and working on the actual furniture piece(s). If you needed to work on a specific piece you simply turned around and did the work and then turned back to the center bench. This was also a total meander shop so it worked very well as there were no stationary machines to consider. Also the outer benches and shelves were sectioned into specific tasks i.e. planing area, sawing area, and carving and what have you area.