New Homeowner First Table Saw

[Markthomas Cutone]

Hi All,


I just bought my first home and have developed a few projects for around the house; the only equipment I currently lack is a Table Saw. I am currently looking for one to build a few built-in’s around my fire place. My current budget is up to $500. Do you all have any recommendations for my first purchase? Thanks for all your help and support! In addition I also have planned a few humidors and some adirondack chairs on my to-do list for the near future.

Thank you all for your help!!!

MT

[John Sanford]

used. Look hard and patiently (Craigslist or your local equivalent) and you should be able to find a used cabinet saw for that price. One consideration you have to have sorted out is power. Will you be able to run the saw on 220v-240v power, or will you be restricted to 120v. If the latter, then you can pick up a used GOOD contractor saw. Cast iron top. Biesmeyer type fence. American made Delta Contractor's Saws, General and General Int'l, Jet. Other brands "it depends". Avoid Craftsman saws UNLESS it's one of the "zipcode" "hybrid" saws. "Zipcode" because their 5 digit model numbers are actual zipcodes, hybrids because they're design is between a contractor's saw and a cabinet saw. You may very well be able to find a used Delta Unisaw or Powermatic PM66 for the price you're considering. Heck, one guy scored 1/2 a shop of good Jet tools for $400 recently!!! (a very rare occurrence, but it happens.) If you find something specific you're interested in, get as much info as possible and then ask here for feedback.

[Gary Hodgin]

+1, what John said.

[John Schweikert]

I'll go the other route and say that the Bosch 4100 is a superb homeowner table saw. I've been using one for several years and have no issues at all. Built well, once set is very accurate and does everything I can throw at it. You can get the saw itself for $529 from Amazon or $569 with the gravity rise stand.

The Ridgid R4512 gets high marks as well, $499, at most Home Depots.

While I agree you can get a saw from craigslist, I find it to be very hit and miss. I've seen few if any saws I would spend $500 on from a craigslist ad in middle TN, too many rust buckets or people asking way too much money for the type of saw. I look at the CL tools section every single day and usually multiple times a day looking for solid deals, few out there, and a lot of crap. Other regions in the country may be better.

No matter what saw you buy, it can easily cost more than $500 with add-ons. You need a quality blade, a dado set may be useful for your projects, the list will only grow.

[Don Morris]

I agree with the CL comment. I look at CL a lot and don't often see exactly what i want. Often when I do see something, by the time I call, it's gone. But, CL is great if it works. Also agree that if you do get a used, upgrade the blade, as that is the best thing you can do for an older TS. Have no history with the Bosch or Ridgid but you need to check them out if you just can't find anything on CL and want to get started before the next millenium. There are books and videos on how to get the most out of a TS and to use it safely. Since you indicate you're not experienced with Table Saws, please read or review one of them as a TS can be a dangerous, even deadly, tool for a new home owner.

[Rich Riddle]

It seems four of five of us now recommend the Craigslist route for a used saw. You can get quite a saw used for $500 if you know how to shop and what to seek. Those fold-up saws fall far short for jobs where you don't need a portable saw that can be taken anywhere. Got rid of mine for the lack of stability. Look for a saw with some heft that can be put on a mobile base if you need to move it. You should get a steel top so that magnetic items attach to it. At a bare minimum look for a contractors saw, but nothing made with a plastic base. If you tell us where you live, we might be able to better help you.

[Markthomas Cutone]

Thanks for all you comments! Unfortunately I am only limited to 110 power at this time (But I can always install 220!). I have been scanning craigslist (knoxville, tn) for a good used saw but haven't came across one in my price range. When I do find one and I go to see it what should I look for?.. I don't want to waste my money on a POS.

I just scanned this morning here are a few I found... What are your thoughts?

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/atq/3720822584.html
http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/3658362237.html
http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/3658483147.html
http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/3668202359.html
http://knoxville.craigslist.org/bar/3656774378.html
http://knoxville.craigslist.org/grd/3681346623.html

I have experience with table saws (my dad's old craftsman; not sure which model but it has to be 15 years old) but never purchased one for myself. He lives 14 hours away so I figured it was about time I jumped in!

If I can't find a decent saw on craigslist which saws would be recommended to be bought new? I have read a lot about the Rigid R4512; it seems like a decent saw except for the fence and the stamped wings.

Thank you all so much for your help!!! I truly appreciate it!!!

MT

[Troy Turner]

I have a craftsman kinda like the one in (knx). It's a solid saw. The 1960 Delta and the Delta in Greenville look decent too. See if they are belt drive (motor hangs out the back). With a $500 budget, you can get some nice upgrades to any of these saws and still have money for wood.

[Paul Wunder]

As a new woodworker with a limited budget, I would avoid older used machines and stay with a new Ridgid contractor's table saw (see below) as others have recommended.The reasons are twofold:

Safety: All new saws (after 2011?) must include a "riving knife" device that will help prevent dangerous kickbcks which can cost you an eye or a finger. As novices we all make mistakes. Saws prior to this date do not have riving knives.A riving knife, in my humble opinion, is a necessity. The second necessity is a blade guard. Many people, more experienced in the hobby, remove them, claiming it slows them down, it certainly is high on my list for safety. Lastly, many used machines may not include a blade guard.

Time and money investment: If you truly are familiar with how to choose a used machine and are willing to spend time repairing that which is necessary, a value may be had. That's your decision

Warranty: New saws come with a warranty. Ridgid has one of the better warranties

Welcome to the hobby. Have fun


http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202500206?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=ridgid+table+saws&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=202500206#.UV3XFDebYtk

[glenn bradley]

I don't know about Craig's List but, there are plenty of used 1970's Emerson Electric built Craftsman contractor saws out there. I picked one up for about $100 and added another $100 of add-on's:
- PALs for alignment
- Machined pulleys and link belt to reduce vibration
- An aftermarket fence
After that I just made things for years till I upgraded. If I wasn't going to pursue WWing as a more serious hobby, I would have just kept it.

[scott spencer]

I'd suggest you stick with a full size 10" stationary saw with a belt drive induction motor, as opposed to a benchtop, portable, or compact saw with a direct drive universal motor. The Ridgid R4512 and similar Craftsman 21833 are the closest to your budget in a new saw. Some HD's will accept a 20% Harbor Freight coupon, putting the R4512 below $500.

Used saws can offer a good bang for the buck if the right deal rolls along. Your list didn't look great to me, but a few might be worth a look. If the green saw for $150 in Madisonville has a belt drive induction motor hanging off the back, it could be worth the $150 asking price if it's in good working shape. The Delta in Greeneville is a bit overprice at $300 with that fence IMO....you can always offer $200-$225 and see how it goes. The Delta in Dandridge could be worth $200 if it has a belt drive induction motor hanging off the back (can't tell from the pic)....if not, it's direct drive. The Craftsman in knx could be worth $100-$125 if it has a belt drive induction motor hanging off the back...the stock fences on these saws were lousy, and should be upgraded, but with a new fence like a Delta T2 for $200, that could be a nice saw for $300 total. The flex drive Cman isn't as nice as belt drive IMO, but the wings are worth the $40 price, so you really can't loose much on that one. Making Sense of Table Saws (http://lumberjocks.com/knotscott/blog/32154)

[Markthomas Cutone]

Again... Thanks for all the knowledge!! If I were to pursue a used saw what are the particulars I should look at before purchasing it?

PS. I have been looking at the Rigid for a while but I have heard mixed reviews... (i.e. fence issues, stamped wings)... I feel if I am going to buy a $500 saw there should be a decent fence. Which is why I though used would be a good idea then i could spend the extra cash on extras... I am still torn between these decisions :eek:.

Again thank you all for your help again!

MT

[scott spencer]

In a new saw, solid cast iron wings and a better fence move you into the $850+ range.

For a used saw, look for standard full size (27"deep), cast iron or granite, belt drive induction motor. Solid cast iron wings are grate if you come across them, but those can be added later on....nearly any solid 27" deep cast iron wing can be added to any 27" deep saw with some drilling. You can also add your own solid extensions from MDF, melamine, formica, plywood, etc. A great fence is always a plus. It's nice if the original blade guard and miter gauge are intact. Condition can tell you a lot, but even a little rust is no big deal (makes for a good bartering point). Unplug the saw, spin the blade by hand and listen for grinding noises from bad bearings (they can be replaced, but drop the price). Check under the hood for obvious cracks in the trunnions. Run the saw and see if it sounds normal (no banging, bad vibration, or clattering noises)....most minor vibration is caused by belt/pulley issues and is usually easy to remedy. For $500 you might even find an old cabinet saw like a Delta or Rockwell Unisaw....you'll need 220v to run anything over 2hp. Be sure the motor will run on single phase (most smaller motors will).

Here ya go! http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/3713960000.html This one already has an upgraded fence that's worth close to the asking price....a running motor adds another $50-$60 of value, so if it runs give the man a C-note, clean up the rust, buy a good blade, align it, and make dust! (Note that it's not really 3hp though....it's 1.5hp and will run on a standard 120v circuit). They're mistaken about the $199 new price tag too.....it more like $499.

[Joseph Tarantino]

+1 on scotts comments. i have two of those saws (built by emerson electric for sears and ridgid years ago) and kept them over a refurbished unisaw. and the last one linked by SS has it's splitter/blade guard. all that saw needs is a good cleaning, alignment, an incra v27 miter gauge and a good 40T combination blade and you're ready to go. that fence system is the same as the OEM system on ridgid's old ts2412 and ts2424. takes a little patience to true up to the miter slot, but once done, it locks down dead accurate every time. it's every bit as accurate as the delta t2 i have on my c-man version of the same saw. and if more rip capacity is needed, those fence rails slide to the right for an added 6 -12" of capacity (30" top 36"). this renders the tape on the front fence rail useless, but it's a cheap and easy way to get more capacity.

[John Sanford]

The Delta Contractor's Saw in Dandridge is probably the best of the batch there, although as noted, the fence isn't anything to write home about. You can add the Delta Uniguard to it, which gives you an overarm blade guard AND a quickly removable splitter. Of course, then you're getting up near the $500 total, and you still don't have a good fence. This is my setup, except I have a Incra TS-III Fence system also, which cost me more than the saw.

Decide how far you're willing to travel for a saw, and then look at Craigslist in that range, not just Knoxville. Also, let your family, friends and coworkers know that you're interested in getting a good used tablesaw, there's a fair chance that somebody has one sitting in the basement or they know somebody who knows somebody who wants to get rid of one.

[michael osadchuk]

I agree with John Sandford, Scott and others on going the used tablesaw route....... but it takes some research, patience and decisiveness...

research by going thru some woodworking forums on what are considered very good used tablesaws, fair prices for them, some rough sense of frequency of availability..... mentally decide on several models that would be acceptable and at what price

patience to wait for the one of these models to come up for sale (ask others to keep a look out for you, perhaps even post the occasional 'wanted ad')...... set aside the money, preferably cash

when one of your top picks at a low ball asking price pops up on the market, ask FAST ......if wait by you posting a "what do you think?" forum query on an such a used sale offer, by the time you get a couple of responses back and contact the seller, you will likely be number 3 or 4 on their waiting list if earlier offers to purchase fall through....

.... btw, in Canada a classic 3hp cabinet saw with a solid but not late model rip fence, requiring some refurbishing but not a total teardown, will pop up in the $500-$650 range.....very good contractor tablesaws with all cast iron tops, modern rip fences, ready-to-be put to work, similarly show up at $225-$450..

.... also riving knife vs. splitter argument..... imho, the riving knife is a very modest safety improvement over a splitter and would not be a deal breaker for me

good luck

michael

[Prashun Patel]

I know that when I was in your position, I didn't feel I had the wherewithall to evaluate and buy a quality used tablesaw. I was looking for specific brand recommendations that I could buy locally. With that in mind, my short list is:

Craftsman Hybrid
Ridgid Hybrid
Bosch Portable.

I would also buy a portable dust collector at this point too.

[John TenEyck]

Almost any of those saws look like they would be fine, as long as they are belt driven with an induction motor, with the exception of the last one coated with rust. Around here you can find at least a dozen used cast iron Craftsman saws every week on Craigslist for around $150. I bought one for my brother a couple of years ago - just like the one I bought new for myself in the early '80's. There isn't much to go wrong with a TS. If you buy a used one just turn it on and listen to it. It should start up, run, and stop smoothly, with no funny noises. Watch the blade as it spins up and down. There should be no wobble. Make sure the handles crank the arbor up/down and tilt smoothly over their complete range. Look underneath to make sure it's not all rusted. The blade guard probably won't be on a used saw, but ask for it, and if they don't have it give them $50 less so you can buy a replacement.

And yes, the stock fence on a Sears is poor, but it works and I used it for 25 years to make dozens of projects. The round tube Delta fence is better but not great either. The more important thing to me is to incorporate the saw into a work station if you intend to handle wide or long pieces, and who doesn't at some point. A standard TS is not wide enough, and definitely not long enough, to handle large panels safely and with the accuracy required to make furniture. I built a table on the left side of my saw and a bridge to an outfeed table over 8 feet long. I replaced the stock rails with 8' long 1/4" angle iron so I could rip beyond the center of a sheet of plywood. It'll handle about anything I can hoist up to it. The saw is less important than how it is set up, IMO. Don't get me wrong, my rehabbed Unisaw is far superior to the Sears in every way, but pretty much any belt drive, 10" saw can be set up to do quality work as long as the arbor runs true and you put a good blade on it.

John

[John Piwaron]

IMO, the fence makes or breaks almost any saw. A lousy fence will make lousy cuts or be a huge PITA to adjust. Each time.

I had a Craftsman contractor's saw once. I bought it new in the mid 80s. The fence it came with was a disaster. I was close to getting rid of it. But I decided to put an aftermarket Biesemeyer fence on it. The fence turned a sow's ear into a silk purse!

The saw itself had a cast iron top with cast iron wings. They're the lattice work kind of wing. They worked very well. After all the other usual tweaks and adjustments it worked great. I built a lot of things with it. Eventually I replaced it because of it's lack of power. While I did cut things like 3" thick hard maple with it, doing so was a very slow process.

Bottom line is that if you were to find one like that keep in mind that it's a good saw. There's lots of good used equipment out there. And even more that's not. Old stuff won't have the latest safety gear, but that's true with everything else too.

[Maurice Arney]

If you decide to look at a new saw, I would suggest taking a look at the DEWALT DW744X. I looked at several contractor saws for doing projects around the house and finally settled on this one. It has a 24 1/2" rip capacity and the micro adjustment on the fence makes very accurate cuts. Another thing I like is that I can run a full 4' X 8' sheet through without any extra supports. The stand may not look it, but it is rock solid and highly portable.

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW744X-10-Inch-Job-Site-Capacity/dp/B000HXT2MW/ref=sr_1_30?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1365275086&sr=1-30&keywords=dewalt