Skew Rabbet, Shoulder or Bullnose Plane?

[Paul Shaffer]

Hello, I rarely venture into the Neanderthal's, being a proficient electron killer, but I would like your advice on a hand plane purchase. I am making doors for my kitchen and rabbeting the back of 1/2" stock to fit into 1/4" grooves from my R&S router bits. Even with a new dado blade, I find that I have to fine tune the fit of the panel in the groove. I figure a rabbet or shoulder plane would make short work of this, much easier than using a sanding block. So I got the OK from LOML for a new hand plane. In my reading, there are at least two good options. The first is the Veritas Skew Rabbet plane and the second would be the Veritas Medium Shoulder plane. I believe that both will work... but where I would like advise is which one will be more useful in the long run, beyond these 37 doors? Is there a better plane to do this job, such as a bullnose plane? Since this is my kitchen and I'm in the middle of it, I want to get a quality, new plane because I don't want to spend days searching CL and ebay, and than more days refurb'ing a classic.

Thanks in advance,
Paul

[Shawn Pixley]

i'd vote for the shoulder plane. It seems the most useful for a variety of uses.

That said, I have a shoulder plane but do not have a skew rabbet or bullnose plane.

[glenn bradley]

Another vote for shoulder. A bull nose that converts to a chisel plane can be useful but, the longer nose of the shoulder allows better registration.

[Chris Griggs]

You don't want the skew rabbet for tuning. Its really for cutting rabbets. Get either a shoulder plane, or skew block/rabbet block plane if fine fitting is what your interested in. I find a medium shoulder plane to be a godsend for the type of thing you're describing. Big enough that you can hit just about any rabbet you need in one pass, small enough to use with one hand.

[Bob Jones]

I agree with Chris. And to it - buy a skew rabbet for fun and make some rabbets by hand. It is a blast! Then get a plow plane. :)

[Jim Koepke]

[clip] I am making doors for my kitchen and rabbeting the back of 1/2" stock to fit into 1/4" grooves from my R&S router bits. Even with a new dado blade, I find that I have to fine tune the fit of the panel in the groove. I figure a rabbet or shoulder plane would make short work of this, much easier than using a sanding block. So I got the OK from LOML for a new hand plane. In my reading, there are at least two good options. The first is the Veritas Skew Rabbet plane and the second would be the Veritas Medium Shoulder plane. I believe that both will work... but where I would like advise is which one will be more useful in the long run, beyond these 37 doors? Is there a better plane to do this job, such as a bullnose plane?

Thanks in advance,
Paul

There is at least one more option not mentioned.

First, a bullnose rabbet would likely be the least useful. In effect it is just a shoulder plane that is hard to register on the work piece due to the short nose. As for being a chisel plane, I have not found one to be as useful as a plain chisel.

For the other options, you could use almost any plane on the back side of the panel to "raise a panel" along the edge to make the panel fit. A side rabbet plane would let you widen the grooves, but they are not your most versatile option unless this is something you will be tackling again in the future or find yourself often with a groove that could be just a bit wider.

A shoulder plane is a useful tool for adjusting rabbets.

A Skew Rabbet plane is useful enough you might find yourself leaning toward the neander side of things instead of setting up a dado stack.

jtk

[Sam Murdoch]

If you can find one of these 3 in 1 Record Convertible shoulder planes I think you will be in good shape for lots of options http://www.record-plane-reviews.co.uk/record-plane-no-311.php.

Here is a photo of it as 3 planes -

258968


I like mine very much but I didn't realize it was no longer available - I guess I've been blissfully unaware. Here is a link to a new version. http://www.fine-tools.com/G303760.htm I have bought tools from this company with no issues, only good results.

[Chris Vandiver]

If you can find one of these 3 in 1 Record Convertible shoulder planes I think you will be in good shape for lots of options http://www.record-plane-reviews.co.uk/record-plane-no-311.php.

Here is a photo of it as 3 planes -

258968


I like mine very much but I didn't realize it was no longer available - I guess I've been blissfully unaware. Here is a link to a new version. http://www.fine-tools.com/G303760.htm I have bought tools from this company with no issues, only good results.

Or you can get it here; http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/clifton.htm a good multi-use tool.

[Ron Kellison]

If you can find one of these 3 in 1 Record Convertible shoulder planes I think you will be in good shape for lots of options http://www.record-plane-reviews.co.uk/record-plane-no-311.php.

Here is a photo of it as 3 planes -

258968


I like mine very much but I didn't realize it was no longer available - I guess I've been blissfully unaware. Here is a link to a new version. http://www.fine-tools.com/G303760.htm I have bought tools from this company with no issues, only good results.

I sold a pristine Record 311 last year for ~ US$ 150. It was unused, especially after I acquired my Lee Valley medium shoulder plane. It's a wonderful piece of kit!

[Jim Neeley]

If a fence would be helpful in your work, consider the lie-nielsen skew block plane. I found it so handy I ended up buying left and right handed models, the only plane I have two of. It also doubles as a top quality block plane, iin my experience. While I have a couple of sizes of shoulder planes I find them most handy when I'm cutting narrow end grain, such as trimming the shoulders of a tenon. For the cheeks or other work, it's the skew for me.

That's one thing about planes however, different people have different preferences, even for the same job. There are some for who a #4-1/2 or #5 is their go-to plane while I prefer a #6 for most of my work.

Jim in Alaska

[Paul Shaffer]

I am very intrigued by the Clifton 3110 plane... But as we all know, when you make a multi-purpose tool, something is sacrificed. For people with the 3-in-1 (Clifton or Record), what are the compromises compared to a similar LV dedicated shoulder plane? Also, I am new to hand tools in general, so are Clifton planes on par with LV/LN? I can expect the sole to be dead square to the sides? Thanks for all the help thus far.

Paul

[Jim Palmer]

I am very intrigued by the Clifton 3110 plane... But as we all know, when you make a multi-purpose tool, something is sacrificed. For people with the 3-in-1 (Clifton or Record), what are the compromises compared to a similar LV dedicated shoulder plane? Also, I am new to hand tools in general, so are Clifton planes on par with LV/LN? I can expect the sole to be dead square to the sides? Thanks for all the help thus far.

Paul

Surprisingly few - if any - compromises can be found in the Record 311, unless you find yourself in need of both bull nose, chisel and shoulder planes in very quick succession for multiple tasks. An excellent tool.

The bull nose shoulder plane is especially handy in a variety of applications and not a one trick pony or of less use due to it's nose length. I keep and use one handy as an apron plane, as it can be finely tuned to take transparent shavings from the most awkward timbers. Don't let it's bull nose fool you. ;)

The skew rebate plane is another multi-purpose plane capable of excelling in it's intended role and others. Especially when dealing with cantankerous timbers. Excellent when raising panels and dealing with end grain.

The shoulder plane is far more capable than some seem to suggest - concerning tenon tuning and shoulder refinement - but size does matter and although I have a reasonable selection to choose from, my go-to shoulder plane is a Record #073 due to the scale of my work and the fact it fits very neatly in my hand during use on either push or pull stroke.

On balance, I'd opt for bull nose shoulder plane, skew rebate plane and shoulder plane for inclusion in my tool kit simultaneously and have them, but sincerely can't recommend which to buy first. Such a choice belongs with the buyer and relies upon the nature of the work he/she is undertaking.

[Brian Ashton]

Hello, I rarely venture into the Neanderthal's, being a proficient electron killer, but I would like your advice on a hand plane purchase. I am making doors for my kitchen and rabbeting the back of 1/2" stock to fit into 1/4" grooves from my R&S router bits. Even with a new dado blade, I find that I have to fine tune the fit of the panel in the groove. I figure a rabbet or shoulder plane would make short work of this, much easier than using a sanding block. So I got the OK from LOML for a new hand plane. In my reading, there are at least two good options. The first is the Veritas Skew Rabbet plane and the second would be the Veritas Medium Shoulder plane. I believe that both will work... but where I would like advise is which one will be more useful in the long run, beyond these 37 doors? Is there a better plane to do this job, such as a bullnose plane? Since this is my kitchen and I'm in the middle of it, I want to get a quality, new plane because I don't want to spend days searching CL and ebay, and than more days refurb'ing a classic.

Thanks in advance,
Paul

To reply as any sensible neander would in that we like things simple... buy all three... simple!

[Sam Murdoch]

Nothing was sacrificed in the the 3 purposes of the Record 311. Change out of the configurations are easy and the end result is true and functional. I can't believe that the Clifton 3110 is any less. Pricey though. I think I paid about $ 80.00 but that was 30 years ago. I carry it with me to all my jobs and keep in handy when I'm in the shop. Lots of versatility with one tool. For the work you are describing I think the fit in the hand aspect of the 3110 would be excellent. You would find many uses for the 3 in 1 plane.

[Paul Shaffer]

Thanks for all the advice, it was very helpful. I ended up ordering the Veritas medium shoulder plane. I am going to keep my eyes on Ebay and such for a Record or Clifton 3-in-1, because the extra $60-$70 for a new one from The Best Things was just too much for me at the moment. The Veritas should ship today and I can't wait to try it out. Thanks again.

[Chris Griggs]

You'll definitely like the medium. It's a pretty heafty hunk of iron in its own right, but easy enough to use one-handed or two. The large shoulder planes (I've used the LN large) are pretty sweet but they are serious chunks of steel and depending what you use a shoulder plane for most often can be a bit overkill (though some folks swear by them for everything)

Anyway, the grip on the LV med took me a couple uses to get used to just because I had previously used more traditionally shaped planes...I kept taking the little toggling knob and off and couldn't decide if I liked it on there or not. Then after a couple uses I really came to love it... the little hole in the side is pure genius and the toggle really is helpful in aligning your grip and directing force forward. I use the thing all the time.

[Zach Dillinger]

You'll definitely like the medium. It's a pretty heafty hunk of iron in its own right, but easy enough to use one-handed or two. The large shoulder planes (I've used the LN large) are pretty sweet but they are serious chunks of steel and depending what you use a shoulder plane for most often can be a bit overkill (though some folks swear by them for everything)

Anyway, the grip on the LV med took me a couple uses to get used to just because I had previously used more traditionally shaped planes...I kept taking the little toggling knob and and off and couldn't decide if I liked it on there or not. Then after a couple uses I really came to love... the little hole in the side is pure genius and the toggle really is helpful in aligning your grip and directing force forward.

I wouldn't trade my LN large for the medium or the small. The large is a serious piece of kit! I just wish I could get an O-1 blade for it.

[Chris Griggs]

I wouldn't trade my LN large for the medium or the small. The large is a serious piece of kit! I just wish I could get an O-1 blade for it.

A lot of folks feel that way, and I came very very close to getting a large (and still might at some point), but for me the only places I could think of I would want the large over the med was if I was going to use it for trimming tenon cheeks or if I was working rabbets larger than 3/4". That versatility really appealed to me, but what I realized for myself was that if I hypothetically had every shoulder plane on the market I would likely grab a medium (or even a small) 95-99% of the time. Its very rare that I work a a rabbet or shoulder larger than 3/4" (actually rare that they are greater than 1/2"), and I have other ways I trim tenon cheeks. For me it was a choice of what would be useful in more situations (the large) vs what I would prefer to use most of the time (the med). Obviously I chose the latter.

Zach, I'd be curious to know what situations you find a large to be of benefit over something smaller and how often you find yourself in those situations. Do you just like the heft for plowing through endgrain? Do you use it to cut/fit wide rabbets? Do you use it to trim tenon cheeks? I can totally see all or any of those things be something that would make someone plump for a large if they were going to have only one shoulder plane. Again, that versatility definitely has an appeal to me, and in my head I sometime think I should have gotten a large, but in practice there hasn't been one time yeah were I felt I needed or would have preferred the extra size. Guess I'll just have to buy a large one of these days to find out what I'm missing.Just curious.

Anyway, what I've found is at the end of the day most of us end up liking the tools we own because those are the ones we get used to having and using. I bet if I had bought the large instead of the medium I'd being singing the same tune as you, I no doubt would come to love all the benefits of large plane over a med....seriously, I bet that would be the case.... Its funny if you look up old "which shoulder plane" threads, there is like a 50/50 split on med vs large when the "if I could have only one" question comes up. Inevitably, almost everyone who bought a med over a large (or vice-versa) and everyone who bought and LN over an LV (or vice-versa) says that they are happy with their decision and always recommend it that the OP does what they did. I doubt I'm any different.:)

[Zach Dillinger]

Chris, I do use mine for trimming tenon cheeks quite often. Of course, I also have the rabbet block plane that can be used for this as well. I do like to cut rabbets with it using my fingers as the fence. This, I think is a benefit of the large. If you have the medium, you can't cut a full 3/4" wide with it and still use your finger-fence. The large allows me to get all the way up to 3/4" and beyond with this technique.

Really, I just prefer having larger tools as I'm a pretty big guy. The little planes just don't fit right. I'm sure the medium is fine for 99% of things. The weight doesn't matter to me, really. If you have to have heft to get through the end grain you are either taking too big a bite or your iron isn't sharp enough.

I wouldn't second guess yourself on tool choices if what you have works for you. No reason (well, no functional reason...) to buy every tool under the sun or worry that you don't have one. I'm far from an "anarchist", but I do think having a smaller kit makes some woodworking choices easier. I'm not planning to downsize though!

[Chris Griggs]

Chris, I do use mine for trimming tenon cheeks quite often. Of course, I also have the rabbet block plane that can be used for this as well. I do like to cut rabbets with it using my fingers as the fence. This, I think is a benefit of the large. If you have the medium, you can't cut a full 3/4" wide with it and still use your finger-fence. The large allows me to get all the way up to 3/4" and beyond with this technique.

Really, I just prefer having larger tools as I'm a pretty big guy. The little planes just don't fit right. I'm sure the medium is fine for 99% of things. The weight doesn't matter to me, really. If you have to have heft to get through the end grain you are either taking too big a bite or your iron isn't sharp enough.

I wouldn't second guess yourself on tool choices if what you have works for you. No reason (well, no functional reason...) to buy every tool under the sun or worry that you don't have one. I'm far from an "anarchist", but I do think having a smaller kit makes some woodworking choices easier. I'm not planning to downsize though!

All makes perfect sense. I thought that might be the case (using it for cutting rabbets like that). That would definitely be a benefit. I use my skew rabbet for all my rabbets, but in addition to requiring setup, fenced planes one directionality can be limiting in certain cases and I've often considered getting the large HNT Gordon shoulder plane to use like you're describing....seems like kinda a nice shoulder plane/rabbet plane hybrid. Also, the ability of large to do all those tasks really does have an appeal if for no other reason than I like to have the bench as uncluttered as possible.

Anyway, I second guess everything I buy, that's just how I am...I'm a researcher/analyst by nature and occupation and I over analyze everything. Probably why I fit in here. It's mostly all just talking and pontification. I've lost count of the number of things I've said on this forum that "I'd like to own", or "planned on buying", but I can be such an obsessive minimalist (and just plain cheap), that only a handful actually get/or have gotten purchased.

I drive myself crazy thinking about what I want to buy, did buy, or should've bought. Fortunately, when I (and hopefully all of us) get down to the shop and actually put the tools to use, all that goes away and I/we just have fun making nice things out of wood.

[Mike Cogswell]

I'd use one of my shoulder planes or a rabbit block plane. I'm sure you'll be satisfied with your Veritas plane, they make excellent products. Welcome to the slippery slope. Once you start using more hand tools you'll realize a lot of things like rabbits and dados can be done faster with a hand plane than you can install and set up your dado blade in the table saw. The only time I use my dado anymore is for volume production where I'm making lots of the same cut.

[Mike Cogswell]

You'll definitely like the medium. It's a pretty heafty hunk of iron in its own right, but easy enough to use one-handed or two. The large shoulder planes (I've used the LN large) are pretty sweet but they are serious chunks of steel and depending what you use a shoulder plane for most often can be a bit overkill (though some folks swear by them for everything)

Anyway, the grip on the LV med took me a couple uses to get used to just because I had previously used more traditionally shaped planes...I kept taking the little toggling knob and off and couldn't decide if I liked it on there or not. Then after a couple uses I really came to love it... the little hole in the side is pure genius and the toggle really is helpful in aligning your grip and directing force forward. I use the thing all the time.

You just gravitate towards smaller planes. :)

[Chris Griggs]

You just gravitate towards smaller planes. :)

Haha. No argument there.

[Jack Curtis]

I regularly use both the large and small LN shoulder planes, the large mostly for tenon cheek trimming, the small for the more normal narrower shoulders.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Late to this game......

I expect I am about to repeat what has been said up above:

You needa getcha a shoulder plane. For that specific task, I would go for the medium size.

How-some-ever - I have the LN large, and as much as I wished in the early years that I had gotten the medium, now that I have learned the proper technique to drive it, I would rather have the large than the medium. But the medium would be very, very nice to have as an alternative.