Winch for wood hauler

[Eric Gourieux]

After reading through Roger's wood hauler mods, I have a renewed interest in making similar mods for my trailer. Does anybody have a recommendation for a winch? My trailer has a 3000lb capacity. I'll be dragging logs up onto the trailer with a similar setup to Rogers wood hauler.

Would you suggest 2000, 3000, 5000 lb winch?

How much difference does the gearing make?

Any particular brand you suggest? I noticed that Roger has a Superwinch, and they seem to be very nice according to what I've read.

I assume there is a big difference in quality and seems to be a wide range of pricing. Even within the same brand, there seems to be a big difference in prices. For example, I saw a Chamion 4500 lb winch for $199 and a 3000 lb for $99 (same retailer).

I appreciate any suggestions/experienc you may have.

[Roger Chandler]

For what it is worth, Eric...........I got a utility winch that was rated at 3000lbs..........I wanted to limit myself to being able to only pull weight that did not exceed my trailers weight limit.

Secondly...........I know about two of the major brands, and wanted something I could get service and parts for in the future. Warn winches and Superwinch are the big boys in the winch market.........and either of those are very reputable. That being said, there are number of other brands out there.........and likely manufactured by some of the same people.........but have labels for the off brands, and they look similar in design.......they might be good units as well.......I have no personal knowledge other than with Warn and Superwinch...........both are very good.

I thought about the 5000 lb winch, but decided since my trailer limit was 3500 lbs..........I ought to stick with the 3000 lb unit........it also has a handheld remote for operation anywhere near the trailer, which I think is a must.

[Roger Chandler]

Eric.......one thing I forgot to mention........I am taking my trailer back to the steel fabricators to have a bracket welded on this coming monday that will allow me to set the winch into the receiver at an angle........about 35 degrees up, and that will change the angle that the cable comes off the spool.....I am doing this because I had a couple of guys say I might get some kinking in the cable at the abrupt angle it is at now.........

I was not sure, never had that issue before, but I figured that might be a good thing to do, even though it is aircraft cable on the winch. Jerry from Tuscon, Az. was the first to mention this..........replacing a cable is about $50 and the bracket will cost me that, but might avoid issues.

I am going to be getting some cherry, Walnut and oak for our club sometime next week, and will give this a good test flight!

[Brian Kent]

How big is a 3000 lb log? I know, that is like "How long is a piece of string?". But assuming fresh cut walnut or oak, how big a log are you guys capable of hauling with that setup?

[Eric Gourieux]

Brian,
That is a good question, and I don't know the answer. From the standpoint of winch capacity, it will not only be pulling the weight of the log but will also be dragging that weight rather than simply lifting.

[Eric Gourieux]

Roger, thanks for the info. I saw the suggestion about the angle of the cable and was planning on mounting the winch accordingly.

[Roger Chandler]

I am going to limit the length of any log I pull up on my trailer to 8 ft. long.......if it is a particularly big tree, I will shorten the length of log, just to avoid the possibility of overloading.......I don't have any scales I can take with me where I can weigh each log......too big to keep in my pocket! :D:rolleyes:

Just my "guestimate" .......I think a log of 24" in diameter will likely weigh no more than 1000 - 1500 lbs soaking wet at 8 ft long......that is a pretty good sized tree.........when you get up to the 36" size tree trunks.......I might cut the size down to 5 ft or less..........just my thinking, for what that is worth! ;)

[Brian Kent]

I just found a log weight calculator. Here are some sample weights:

A 10' white oak log with 75% moisture content, average diameter 20" is 1450 lbs.

A 10' walnut log, 75% moisture content, 30" average diameter is 2738 lbs.

[Roger Chandler]

Brian,
That is a good question, and I don't know the answer. From the standpoint of winch capacity, it will not only be pulling the weight of the log but will also be dragging that weight rather than simply lifting.

Pull weight is much less than lifting weight........so a small winch will do a lot more work than you realize!

[Roger Chandler]

I just found a log weight calculator. Here are some sample weights:

A 10' white oak log with 75% moisture content, average diameter 20" is 1450 lbs.

A 10' walnut log, 75% moisture content, 30" average diameter is 2738 lbs.

That is more than I expected Brian......maybe I need to google "log weight calculator" and get a better handle on my "guesstimate!"

[Roger Chandler]

I just went to wood web and did a couple of runs on maple and walnut in 8 ft. lengths........17" diameter on the small end and 24" on the big end......the weight was 909 lbs estimate for the silver maple and 1053 lbs for the walnut.......that was more in line with what I was thinking.

[Brian Kent]

Yes, I kept on increasing the diameter and length of the walnut until I got close to the maximum. Either way, that is a lot of wood!

[Dennis Ford]

Be aware that winches are rated for their maximum pull, their performance becomes rather poor well below the maximum pull. A 3000 lb winch seems about right to me, I would expect it to do well loading a 1000 lb log and to very slowly load a 3000 lb log.

[Harry Robinette]

Roger
I agree with your last statement but the friction dragging that much weight may just surprise you.Me and my nephew loaded a Walnut log 28"in dia. and 7' long with his winch and trailer his 3000# Wern winch and it finally killed the battery and went onto the truck battery by the time we got it on the trailer.
This is the only time I've done anything like this so it's just what happen to us.

[John McClanahan]

It's common for winches to base their pulling power on the first layer of cable on the drum. As the layers of cable build up, the pulling power decreases.

John

[ray hampton]

if the log are touching the ground on both ends then the torque to pull it will increase and the front end will dig in

[Roger Chandler]

if the log are touching the ground on both ends then the torque to pull it will increase and the front end will dig in

That is the whole point of having a lifting arch....to get the front end up off the ground.

[David Reed]

Couple thoughts. The max pull as advertised is indeed the MAXIMUM. Not intended for extended use (extended may mean 30-60 seconds). Also that max load is typically calculated with the winch drum empty. As wire piles up on the drum, the drum diameter increases, therefore increasing the work required to turn it under a given load. I think that the expected serviceability of many if not most winches is 1/3-1/2 of the advertised rating. Finally, do not underestimate the friction of an irregular shaped, rough surfaced log on uneven ground.
Depending on the frequency of use, your patience level and pocket book, you can either rely on using an additional block to halve the load on the winch, also halving the speed, or upgrade to a larger size winch at a relatively modest up charge. Or do both.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I use a 5000 lb winch. There was only $40 difference from 3000 lb to 5000 lb.

[Eric Gourieux]

Thanks for all of you input - all of it is helpful. I'm leaning on going a little oversized - like 5000.lb if I can find one priced right. Although I plan on cutting the wood into manageable lengths, I would think the larger winch would pull faster. Then I could overload my trailer REALLY FAST

[Roger Chandler]

Eric........are you going to put receivers for the arch or welded in place? You need some support for the lateral load.......that is why I had the loops welded onto the tongue of the trailer and the front side of the arch........I wanted to use ratchet straps to offset the load laterally. Of course if you are not interested in taking the arch on and off the trailer, you could weld braces permanently.

[john taliaferro]

We use a 6x12 steel deck, tilt , 6000 lb droup axle ,4700 waren . To load a 30" x 12' white oak we have to use a block it won't do it on a straight pull . We tried using sheets on the white slippery stuff that helps some .

[Eric Gourieux]

Roger,
I still need to do some measuring to see what I need to clear the back of the trailer. Would you agree that all I need to do is clear the back of the trailer with the cable?

John,
That's a huge tree. I'm not anticipating hauling a monster like that. Thanks for your suggestions. The white slippery stuff is a good idea

[Roger Chandler]

[QUOTE=Eric Gourieux;2092288]Roger,
I still need to do some measuring to see what I need to clear the back of the trailer. Would you agree that all I need to do is clear the back of the trailer with the cable?/QUOTE]

Eric.......I made my arch 40 inches high.......the steel fabricator was concerned about lateral force on a pull, and thought it was too high......I originally wanted 48 inches high.......we compromised..........then after they got it all welded up and saw what I was going to do and how solid this thing was, he said........." I guess we could have gone higher".......now he tells me!!! :mad: The loops for the ratchet straps will take care of the lateral forces. Also, my arch is made from 2" square steel tube with 3/16 thickness......lots of strength in that the way I have the arch designed.

Even though it is 40" high, we did a line of sight back from the snatch block pulley to the end of the tailgate........it looks as if the cable has plenty of clearance and under tension when hooked to a log, it appears it will lift the forward end up and drag the back end of the log.......that lift coupled with a couple of ramp boards to slide the log up the tailgate seem to me to be adequate.

I hope to test all this out next week sometime, as we have contact with someone who has some cherry, walnut and maple they want to give to our club ........that being said, I put a lot of thought into this and believe it will work just fine. I will post on how it works when we get to that wood next week [I hope it will be one day next week, anyway]

[Ronald Blue]

Price difference aside as I had suggested to Roger when he posted his photos of his master piece a snatch block installed in the loop doubles the power and cuts the line speed in half. This will lessen the load on the battery, the winch and the cable. You can't run a winch drum "empty". They are by design and function intended to have several wraps on them. The securement of the cable at the drum anchor point is not designed or intended to handle full winch capacity. They rely on the cable being wrapped around the drum to do most of the work. Actually the winches I deal with regularly run a full wrap all the way across the drum and never extend far enough out to get into the first layer. That won't be true in the winches you will use here.

[Roger Chandler]

This winch conversation is interesting........some of the comments from posters are opposite of the instructions that came with my Warn winch that I have mounted on my ATV. The warn winch instructions tell us that the greatest power is had when the cable is wrapped around the drum a couple of times and diminishes as the spool gets emptied out..........I have pulled numerous logs with the 2500 lb. warn winch on my ATV, but have always been careful to have at least one or two layers of winding on the spool left.

My Warn winch has a 50 ft. cable, and the Superwinch utility winch on my trailer has a 40 ft. cable......so care needs to be taken not to strip off too much and leave the spool bare.

[Scott T Smith]

Couple thoughts. The max pull as advertised is indeed the MAXIMUM. Not intended for extended use (extended may mean 30-60 seconds). Also that max load is typically calculated with the winch drum empty. As wire piles up on the drum, the drum diameter increases, therefore increasing the work required to turn it under a given load. I think that the expected serviceability of many if not most winches is 1/3-1/2 of the advertised rating. Finally, do not underestimate the friction of an irregular shaped, rough surfaced log on uneven ground.
Depending on the frequency of use, your patience level and pocket book, you can either rely on using an additional block to halve the load on the winch, also halving the speed, or upgrade to a larger size winch at a relatively modest up charge. Or do both.

+1 to David's comments. I have two trailers that I use winches on; one for parbuckling large logs (5K+ log weight), the other for dragging them up from the end of a 16' 5 ton trailer. Parbuckling is a method where you winch the logs up a ramp over the side of a trailer.

I use a Pierce 8K winch, which is an industrial duty winch, with a 4DLT industrial battery on the 16 footer and a pair of deep cycle heavy equipment batteries on the larger trailer. Even winching a 20" log onto the back of the small trailer will still load the winch down, so I would recommend that you install the largest winch that you can afford.

Warn and Superwinch are good quality consumer brand winches, Ramsey and Pierce are more heavy duty (and more expensive). For what you're doing, either the Warn or Superwinch should work fine.

Some extra blocks and a come-a-long are good accessories to have. You can guide the winch cable into the winch by installing a block on the winch cable, and pulling it to one side or the other with a come-along attached to the side of the trailer. Other good accessories are a very long handled Peavey, and some 2" or larger pipes for rolling.

Here are some pix of my setup. The first ones are of my small trailer with the receiver mounted winch on the front. I recently fabricated the winch mount for the trailer, and added the battery and chain boxes at the same time.

259068259069



Here is my larger trailer being used for parbuckling. The white oak log on the back is 50" in diameter and weighs around 9000 lbs. The log on the front is around 36" in diameter. The winch is mounted on the front of the trailer with the cable run though a block chained to one side of the trailer. The ramps are steel I-beams that hook into the sides of the trailer.

259070259071259072

[Roger Chandler]

Those are some great pics, Scott! I like the bracket you have mounted your winch on the first pic......it picks the winch up off the level of the bed. My trailer has rails around it, and it a utility trailer.......I also had a lifting arch made and will use a snatch block pulley to pull logs up the tailgate of the trailer.......the arch will lift the front end of the logs up off the ground for clearance and pull them to the front of the trailer.......I will limit the load because this is not a heavy duty rig........don't need a really heavy duty one.........we have a member of our club who has a trailer very similar to yours that he will use for the really big stuff, and he owns a farm and has an end loader, bobcat, tractor, etc that the trailer can handle it has a 12000 lb. winch on it.

You can see the trailer and the lifting arch on it at this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?200983-No-tree-is-safe!-Woodhauler-modifications-now-complete!

[charlie knighton]

go big or stay home, thanks for sharing Scott

[Roger Chandler]

my observation is this .......if one wants to do logging........unlimited size and length of a tree......that is one issue, and heavy duty equipment is needed........anyone seen AX MEN or Swamp Loggers on the Discovery Channel?

For a wood turner, who is just collecting wood to put on a lathe, then the 3000 lb. winch should do the job......of course there are large trees that come available from time to time.....so in that event, knowing my trailer has a 3500 lb. weight limit, then I will cut that log down to size to fit my trailer size or even into smaller sections suitable for turning blanks.......

As a hobbyist, limits are always there........if I were in the logging business, I would have skidders, Mack trucks, 53 ft. trailers, and sell to the sawmills or pulp factories............not what I got my little utility trailer to do, but it is adequate for what I plan to do as far as turning wood acquisition is concerned.

Sorry Charlie........for me......"go big or go home" does not apply! ;):)

[Scott T Smith]

Those are some great pics, Scott! I like the bracket you have mounted your winch on the first pic......it picks the winch up off the level of the bed. My trailer has rails around it, and it a utility trailer.......I also had a lifting arch made and will use a snatch block pulley to pull logs up the tailgate of the trailer.......the arch will lift the front end of the logs up off the ground for clearance and pull them to the front of the trailer.......I will limit the load because this is not a heavy duty rig........don't need a really heavy duty one.........we have a member of our club who has a trailer very similar to yours that he will use for the really big stuff, and he owns a farm and has an end loader, bobcat, tractor, etc that the trailer can handle it has a 12000 lb. winch on it.

You can see the trailer and the lifting arch on it at this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?200983-No-tree-is-safe!-Woodhauler-modifications-now-complete!


Hi Roger - thanks for the link - I actually tried to find it earlier but was not successful. You've got a sweet setup!

I'm planning to fabricate a hinged lifting arch for my small trailer. It will drop into a couple of stake pockets at the back of the trailer, and allow the log to lift up over the back ramp and then the entire lifting arch will hinge forward, setting the log down on the deck. I'll probably get around to it next month.

[Scott T Smith]

my observation is this .......if one wants to do logging........unlimited size and length of a tree......that is one issue, and heavy duty equipment is needed........anyone seen AX MEN or Swamp Loggers on the Discovery Channel?

For a wood turner, who is just collecting wood to put on a lathe, then the 3000 lb. winch should do the job......of course there are large trees that come available from time to time.....so in that event, knowing my trailer has a 3500 lb. weight limit, then I will cut that log down to size to fit my trailer size or even into smaller sections suitable for turning blanks.......

As a hobbyist, limits are always there........if I were in the logging business, I would have skidders, Mack trucks, 53 ft. trailers, and sell to the sawmills or pulp factories............not what I got my little utility trailer to do, but it is adequate for what I plan to do as far as turning wood acquisition is concerned.

Sorry Charlie........for me......"go big or go home" does not apply! ;):)

Roger, for what you do with your logs you have an excellent setup! I think that your comments earlier about either angling your receiver up or putting it on a hinge are spot on.

[Roger Chandler]

Hi Roger - thanks for the link - I actually tried to find it earlier but was not successful. You've got a sweet setup!

I'm planning to fabricate a hinged lifting arch for my small trailer. It will drop into a couple of stake pockets at the back of the trailer, and allow the log to lift up over the back ramp and then the entire lifting arch will hinge forward, setting the log down on the deck. I'll probably get around to it next month.

I look forward to seeing how you set yours up Scott.......that hinged arch sounds interesting!

[charlie knighton]

Sorry Charlie........for me......"go big or go home" does not apply! ;):)

Roger, for myself i limit myself to 3 feet of log, anymore will just go bad before i turn it, there is always another 3 feet
unless i go to texas, then i get all the mesquite the pickup will carry home

[Eric Gourieux]

Scott,
Thanks for taking the time to post your setup. Now I want a bigger trailer and truck, just so I can be like you! I do like the mount you fabricated for the winch in the front of your trailer. It is simple and solves the problem of clearing the trailer ramp. I see a broken board on the trailer bed! Why don't I come get your trailer with the broken board, and you can buy another trailer - a nice, new, clean trailer - for yourself?
I like the idea of a block to move the cable from side to side. Seems like that would come in handy. Thanks

[Brian Kent]

So now you have a 3,000 lb log on your trailer. You park next to your shop. You stand there scratching your head, saying, "Now what?" So you go inside and say to your Wench, "Honey make me some coffee, then how 'bout if you take that little piece of wood off the trailer and put it in my shop. Please?"

And she's no 3,000 lb Wench neither!

[Dennis Nagle]

I just assumed you would have a snatch block somewhere that you could run your winch line too and drag them out that way. That is what I plan on doing. Don't have to buy another winch that way.

If I have a log more than 3', I cut it up and anchor seal the ends.

[Roger Chandler]

I just assumed you would have a snatch block somewhere that you could run your winch line too and drag them out that way. That is what I plan on doing. Don't have to buy another winch that way.

If I have a log more than 3', I cut it up and anchor seal the ends.

You are correct, Dennis......I can do it the way you described without even having to involve my ATV or another winch........I have another snatch block as well as the one I will use for the trailer......actually, I have two more! many ways to unload without difficulty!

[Jeff Nicol]

My trailer is fitted with an "I" beam and trolley that I use a 1 ton chain fall to drag and lift logs onto the trailer, the largest I lifted with the system is a 30" dia by 10' white oak log and it handled it with ease, but I am sure that it weighed in over 2000lbs. I use no winch but have thought of using one when a log is down hill from where I can get as close as I can, but the chain fall hooked to the beam which is about 8' off the ground and a longer chain I am able to drag them to a point where I can lift one end on the trailer and then pick it centered and lift it up and roll it forward with the trolley. Makes short work of things for one man, but always easier with a helper.

One last thing, most all winches are rated for "ROLLING WEIGHT" and not static or dead weight, so by just dragging a log it will take more energy to move it so some small limbs or pipes used as rollers will make the job much easier on the winch. That being said if the winch line is doubled back to the winch and a snatch block is used the pulling power is doubled if needed. One last thing a pulling winch is different than a lifting winch as it needs a different rating for holding weight suspended with gravity pulling it back to earth compared to a log laying on the ground. So more to think about when handling heavy loads.

Safety first and free wood is the best wood,

Jeff

[Eric Gourieux]

Scott, I'd love to see your hinged lift when you get it done. Sounds interesting.

Roger, I think I'll start with removable arch like yours - with the stabilizing brackets. I can always weld it on if I want.

Thanks for the info and suggestions

[Roger Chandler]

Scott, I'd love to see your hinged lift when you get it done. Sounds interesting.

Roger, I think I'll start with removable arch like yours - with the stabilizing brackets. I can always weld it on if I want.

Thanks for the info and suggestions

Hope it goes well, Eric..........I got the trailer back from the welders yesterday. They put that angle bracket on for the upward angle on my winch.......made a solid 45 degree ramp and closed it in so it would not get water under it. Put a nice angle for the cable to go through the snatch block pulley.