Coping Sled Dilemma

[Stew Hagerty]

I need a coping sled. I thought about building one but, after estimating the cost of toggle clamps, phenolic, aluminum plate, and lexan, I decided I might as well by a good one.

After some research, I have narrowed it down to 2 candidates. Based on reviews and by the way they look, It is down to either the Woodpeckers Coping Sled:

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Or Infinity's Professional Coping Sled:

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They both look very well made. They both look like they would work far better than pretty much all of the rest of the coping sleds I've seen. They both have stellar reviews, and they are similar in price.

Therein lies my dilemma. As some of you may know, I am a huge fan of Woodpeckers Tools. However, the Infinity sled looks impressive.

I would love some input from anyone that has or has used one or both of these sleds. Help me decide who will win the Great 2013 Sled Race!!!

[Jack Lemley]

Stew,

I have and have used Infinity's Pro version. I was very impressed with the quality of the product and the results on my project (mission stile blanket chest for my daughter). I'd buy it again in a heart beat. I also looked at Woodpecker's before buying the Infinity. I decided on the Infinity for two reasons, there was a sale going on at the time I bought and the Woodpecker just seemed too bulky for my taste. I too have an affinity toward Woodpecker tools.

Jack

[Patrick McCarthy]

Stew, is this for a router table or to use with a shaper?? I am seeking the same information on what to use with my shaper . . . . and wonder if there is a heavier-duty sled for shapers or if the same sled gets used interchangeably. Sorry if it seems I am hi-jacking . . . . . . .kinda . . . . .

[Jay Jolliffe]

I made my own for my router table....

[Stew Hagerty]

Stew, is this for a router table or to use with a shaper?? I am seeking the same information on what to use with my shaper . . . . and wonder if there is a heavier-duty sled for shapers or if the same sled gets used interchangeably. Sorry if it seems I am hi-jacking . . . . . . .kinda . . . . .

Oh, that's alright Patrick. Everyone is welcome here.

I don't have a shaper, so I am looking exclusively for a sled to use with my router table.

Just FYI... I can't see that it should make any difference for which sled to get, but I have an Incra Table with their LS Super System. (Fence & Table Combo #3)

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[Michael Heffernan]

I have the Infinity Pro coping sled, old version. Very good sled. The new version comes with quick action hold down clamps and aluminum clamp blocks. I think I'll purchase the upgrade for my older sled.
I looked at the Woodpecker's sled. Well made, but I don't like the screw down clamps. When I cut a lot of rail copes, I don't want to screw/unscrew the clamps. The Infinity is quick to change out for then next cope.

[pat warner]

"is a heavier-duty sled for shapers or if the same sled "
************************
Made one (http://patwarner.com/images/tswebb4759.jpg) out 1/2" jig plate for wood, plastic, or Aluminum.
Ok for shaper, router or bandsaw.
****************************************

[Stephen Cherry]

In my opinion, the first decision to be made is how to reference the sled, to the slot, or to the fence.

I'm a fan of referencing the sled to the slot, because I don't like thee idea of trying to make super accurate adjustments to the fence.

[Rod Sheridan]

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Aigner make a nice coping jig, available from several sources.............Rod.

[scott vroom]

I have the Woodpecker sled and wouldn't buy it again. The star knob hold-downs are time consuming to tighten and loosen; if you have a bunch of door rails to cope it's a huge PITA. The next coping sled I buy or make will use quick release toggle hold downs. Between those 2 models, I'd go with the Infinity.

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

I also looked at both a while back and would have gone with the Infinity mainly because it seemed less bulky. But I ended copying the Woodpeckers because it was easier to build. It works great and I have not had any issues with the star knobs. However, if purchasing I would go with the Infinity.

There are plans available online for the Infinity: http://www.wwgoa.com/articles/projects/shop-made-coping-sled/

[Mike Wilkins]

Take a look at the Woodhaven offering. I need one now but utilized another method to cut tenons on the ends of rails. The toggle clamp method of holding the work appears to be a fool-proof system and quicker than turning screws. Just my humble opinion.

[Brian Kincaid]

Only replying because you have an Incra fence. You should buy a sled that references the fence so you can decide how much to take off in each pass with the incra indexing (work your way to zero).

I have the Rockler sled and have been happy-enough with it.

-Brian

[Stew Hagerty]

In my opinion, the first decision to be made is how to reference the sled, to the slot, or to the fence.

I'm a fan of referencing the sled to the slot, because I don't like thee idea of trying to make super accurate adjustments to the fence.

Well, since I have the Incra table I can do either. I have standard 3/4" T-slot and I also have a super accurately adjustable fence.

[mreza Salav]

I recently had to build a whole kitchen cabinet doors and had to do 96 cope cuts. Built a simple sled (shown below) that rides/references off the fence. Didn't bother adding a second hold-down clamp as I was holding the end of it with one hand. Work like a charm and the cost was very small as I only used the materials I had on hand (knobs and hold-down clamp are borrowed from other jigs).

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[Michael Heffernan]

Another nice feature about the Infinity sled is that you can use it in the miter slot on your table if you have one, or let it ride along the fence. The lexan safety visor acutally referenced the fence, keeping the base offset from the fence and bit. I use it both ways.

[Stew Hagerty]

I also looked at both a while back and would have gone with the Infinity mainly because it seemed less bulky. But I ended copying the Woodpeckers because it was easier to build. It works great and I have not had any issues with the star knobs. However, if purchasing I would go with the Infinity.

There are plans available online for the Infinity: http://www.wwgoa.com/articles/projects/shop-made-coping-sled/

Thanks for the link to plans Cyrus but, like I said, I'm in a buying mood. The materials I'd want to use would cost enough that I'm just going to go ahead and buy one.

So why, if you were purchasing, would you choose the Infinity?

And, did you vote?

[Stew Hagerty]

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Aigner make a nice coping jig, available from several sources.............Rod.

OK... That thing is just weird.

[Mark Bolton]

No idea about phenolic, aluminium plate, lexan, and whatever else. And its not flashy by any means, and the two sleds you post are not all that pricey, but,...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8DZhA-11YFs/UVyD2cQC3lI/AAAAAAAABWM/D939uTW4qK4/s818/IMG_00019.jpg

Made out of scraps of MDF and hardwood, two destaco clamps (25 bucks?), a scrap of aluminium, and an adhesive backed rule I had in the cabinet (another 10 bucks)...

No cranking of hand clamps down to the work piece, no aluminum/phenolic/etc., super fast, a bit crude and in need of some refinement but Ive been using this jig for a looong time and its made a good bit of money for the shop.

Im not bragging because this is not all that fast.. seven hours, one man, complete with panels (all narrow doors so no glue ups of course), coped of course on that jig, arches on two others...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uFwrug2LgXI/UVyEUNJfthI/AAAAAAAABWU/zsLPrNXS7B8/s818/IMG_00020.jpg

I run the above jig on a shaper, if it were for a router table Id be building something simple and putting the money towards something else, but thats just me.

The phenlolic, aluminium, taps, tap drills, blah blah blah, is all nice, but its not essential.

[Rod Sheridan]

OK... That thing is just weird.

Sometimes seeing is believing.............I've used them and they work very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urmz_cpHsH0

Regards, Rod.

[Bill Wyko]

Lifetime warranty on the Woodpecker, don't know about the other one.

[Mark Bolton]

Sometimes seeing is believing.............I've used them and they work very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urmz_cpHsH0

Regards, Rod.

Why you gotta go and do something like that? Can you really tell me why? No one needs to see that..

Unreal...

My only issue is I like a full cut on both ends referenced off a stop or rule when I cope so I cut my rails 3/16" long and use a stop. I made my doors referencing off the fence just like that for a long time with no real issue.

Someday,.. someday.. someday.. If I keep saying it maybe one day it will come true..

[Patrick McCarthy]

Rod, the Aigner is, indeed, very nice. I have one and it was obviously operator error (89 degrees) when I attached the guide block . . . . which is why i am thinking i might do better referencing off the miter slot . . . or getting an Aigner "finger" fence . . . . or an outboard fence . . . . . or maybe an euro slider . . . . or maybe just shoot myself.

[Alan Bienlein]

Cost about $5. Scrap piece of plywood and a scrap piece of solid wood for a backer. Just as accurate as any store bought one and it's been in use since 2008 there abouts.
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[Cyrus Brewster 7]

Thanks for the link to plans Cyrus but, like I said, I'm in a buying mood. The materials I'd want to use would cost enough that I'm just going to go ahead and buy one.

So why, if you were purchasing, would you choose the Infinity?

And, did you vote?

Simply because it is less bulky. The base plate, I believe, is also aluminum and thinner. the one thing i do like better about the WP is that you can center the clamp directly over the workpiece. however, I am not sure it makes much of a difference.

[Alan Bienlein]

WOW I just looked up the pricing on those sleds. Gotta say if you want to spend that kind of money who am I to recommend a better more cost efficient alternative. I didn't vote as I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a coping sled and you don't have a choice that fits what I use.

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

Stew,

Here are some photos of the WP clone I made - just to help you reference what it looks like. The one thing that both the Infinity and the WP have over the less expensive ones is that they both ride the fence from above. This protects the base from getting cut by the blade.

Anyway, I do like it a lot but do not think I personally would not have spent what each product demands. Mine cost me less than $30.

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[Jeff Duncan]

There have been a couple other threads on coping sleds and I always go shop built, I know that's not what your looking for, but you don't need most of the materials you listed to make a sled. I've built many kitchens using a sled made up of scraps of mdf and 2 toggle clamps. My feeling is the shiny toys they sell for doing basic jobs are so ridiculously much more expensive than they need to be, I could never justify one. But if you just gotta spend some money....I'd say flip a coin, they're probably equally mediocre:D

good luck,
JeffD

[Stephen Cherry]

Well, since I have the Incra table I can do either. I have standard 3/4" T-slot and I also have a super accurately adjustable fence.

Then the first thing to do is make the decision.

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

Then the first thing to do is make the decision.

I would vote for referencing the fence. MHO - but setting the jig perfectly square with the slot is more tedious than the fence. The fence does not have to be square to anything.

[Stephen Cherry]

I'm a fan of referencing the slot, but this is on a shaper cutter that has a center cutter to trim the end of the tenon. This allows a full cut of the end, and the fence is set up off of the cut end after a cut.

If I was using a router bit or a shaper cutter that did not have a center cutter for the tenon, I'd be inclined to set the fence off of a center bearing and reference the fence.

Also, if I were spending real money and referencing the fence, I would look first at that aigner jig. The other ones look like they would be al little awkward to use. If I wanted to buy a jig to reference the slot, I'd keep an eye out for a used weaver non-pneumatic jig, which would be done with it before the other jigs even got half started.

[Peter Quinn]

Well, those other units look nice, for a router table I'd just make a $3 sled with a few destaco clamps, some sticky back sand paper and scraps. Not a big deal. But if you are really in the mood to spend some money, I'd explore other options like:


http://jdltes.com/?page_id=3695, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8EOAvlRrOA

or

http://www.wynmatic.com/model70ca.html, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qpr9WSpSqo

Whats the expression, go big?

[Mark Bolton]

Mine cost me less than $30.

Ive got to ask for an accounting on this.. There is simply no way if you were to start from no inventory other than wood shop scraps you could build that sled for 30.00. The other sleds posted that used scraps, mine included, didnt include clear lexan/acrylic/etc., knobs, aluminum tubing and track, t nuts, and so on.

Im not nit picking here but when you low-ball a price for a sled using scraps it would seem to assume scraps any hobby or average wood shop would have on hand. Im a full time shop and dont have half of what it would take to put that sled together in stock. We probably have enough MDF scraps to build 20-30 of the sleds I posted.

Care to give an honest tally? I dont feel that turning hand screws/knobs is an efficient way for production so the sled is not on my to-do list but giving readers a fair accounting of the items in their purchasable quantities would be reasonable.

[Mike Goetzke]

I have the Woodpeck and as mentioned is very slow if you have many cuts but provides for very safe cuts. I too built a kitchen full of cabinets. Probably at least 60 frame/panels. To speed it up I made one of these:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Sommerfeldpushblock.jpg


I saw it on a Sommerfeld video. It was very quick but admittedly not as safe as a more elaborate jig.

Mike

[William C Rogers]

I initially bought the Rockler sled and it is "ok". I used this for the first set of cabinets I made and needed it due to my inexperience. I switched to the Sommerfeld tongue and groove system and I don't use any sled any more. I use the push block described by Mike, but larger and I also use the Rockler/Bench Dog push block on top of the push block and work for holding in place. I have not had any problem using this method and lot easier and more accurate than trying to set up a sled. Those Bench Dog push block really have a very good non slip pad and I don't feel I am compromising my safety at all.

Bill

[Don Morris]

I got the Woodpecker system. It's OK. The clear plastic fence is the only design feature I have a problem with. I've had to make a couple other fences. One bigger to accommodate something I was doing a little different. But that wasn't difficult. It works fine. I don't have problems with the star hold downs. They work, that's my criteria. Solid performer when using.

[Rich Riddle]

I prefer to answer the question asked, not offer unsolicited information here. I have owned both but kept the Infiinity. It's better made, has more abilities, and seems to possess better clamping ability than the Woodpeckers. Woodpeckers does make good products, but the Infinity coping sled proves superior to the Woodpeckers.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I prefer to answer the question asked, not offer unsolicited information here. I have owned both but kept the Infiinity. It's better made, has more abilities, and seems to possess better clamping ability than the Woodpeckers. Woodpeckers does make good products, but the Infinity coping sled proves superior to the Woodpeckers.
My experience exactly. I use the infinity pro with a shaper. It's very heavily built and a good deal at that price. Takes a lot of aluminum and knobs and expensive clamps to duplicate it.

[Rod Sheridan]

Why you gotta go and do something like that? Can you really tell me why? No one needs to see that..

Unreal...

My only issue is I like a full cut on both ends referenced off a stop or rule when I cope so I cut my rails 3/16" long and use a stop. I made my doors referencing off the fence just like that for a long time with no real issue.

Someday,.. someday.. someday.. If I keep saying it maybe one day it will come true..

LOL Mark, sorry for torturing you with the Martin promotional video.

I also make my pieces long and reference off a stop on the sliding table, however the Aigner holder does work well..........Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod, the Aigner is, indeed, very nice. I have one and it was obviously operator error (89 degrees) when I attached the guide block . . . . which is why i am thinking i might do better referencing off the miter slot . . . or getting an Aigner "finger" fence . . . . or an outboard fence . . . . . or maybe an euro slider . . . . or maybe just shoot myself.

LOL, those Martin videos make a person realise they should just donate all their present shop machinery as boat anchors..................Rod.

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

Ive got to ask for an accounting on this.. There is simply no way if you were to start from no inventory other than wood shop scraps you could build that sled for 30.00. The other sleds posted that used scraps, mine included, didnt include clear lexan/acrylic/etc., knobs, aluminum tubing and track, t nuts, and so on.

Im not nit picking here but when you low-ball a price for a sled using scraps it would seem to assume scraps any hobby or average wood shop would have on hand. Im a full time shop and dont have half of what it would take to put that sled together in stock. We probably have enough MDF scraps to build 20-30 of the sleds I posted.

Care to give an honest tally? I dont feel that turning hand screws/knobs is an efficient way for production so the sled is not on my to-do list but giving readers a fair accounting of the items in their purchasable quantities would be reasonable.

WOW... it looks like someone forgot to have their V8 today. I can't believe I am actually entertaining this but I am not too fond of being called a liar - especially in pubic.

First - the OP asked about the Woodpeckers vs the Infinity sled, not how to make one from scrap. He reiterated that he did not want to make one in his post that prompted my reply that is currently in question.

He specifically asked me, if I were to buy, why I would go with the Infinity even though I had a Woodpeckers clone. I gave him my reasons and thought I would add a couple of pics so he could at least get a better look at the Woodpeckers design.

Then I stated: "Mine cost me less than $30." Nowhere did I state that these could be pumped out for that price - let alone from the average hobby woodworker's scrap he has in his shop. This is my hobby and I did have/get most of the material for nothing. I believe that if one can get their point across in ten words there is no need to use twelve. However, adding some clarification, because this is a public forum, may have been warranted.

The tally:

Base- $0 Phenolic keyboard tray
Brass stand off (x4)- $0 thrown out at my work pace
Acrylic- $0 scrap from work
Knobs holding acrylic and bridge- $0 both came from the same jig that we no longer use at work
36" Incra T track plus- $15.13 from Woodcraft - this price is current listing + 15% discount I received at the time + tax
3/8" knob (x2)- $4.43 from Woodcraft - current pricing + tax
1/4" knob (x2)- $3.18 from Woodcraft - current pricing + tax

Total so far: $22.74 + various bolts, washers, etc.= > $30.

But... you got me! The file handles were added later and cost around $3 each. So I guess I did underestimate a little. Next time just ask, "Out of curiosity, how did you make it for that price."

To the OP: Sorry for going off track. Like Rich said, you only asked about one vs the other.

[Joe Calhoon]

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Rod, the Aigner is, indeed, very nice. I have one and it was obviously operator error (89 degrees) when I attached the guide block . . . . which is why i am thinking i might do better referencing off the miter slot . . . or getting an Aigner "finger" fence . . . . or an outboard fence . . . . . or maybe an euro slider . . . . or maybe just shoot myself.

Hi Patrick,
I don't think we had this when you were at the workshop. The Aigner in standard form is hard to get the backup board square to the workpiece. To do so you have to remove the handle and use a very hard piece of wood while holding everything square to the fence. I ended up drilling a series of holes for screws in mine offset from the handle. This allows you to just position a wide board same thickness as door stock cut square against the fence and screw it in. The only downside to this is you loose adjustability for width.
This can work without the Aigner shaper fence. Just make the wood guide on the Aigner device longer or add a auxiliary fence to the shaper.

Joe

[Mark Bolton]

Ste

Here are some photos of the WP clone I made - just to help you reference what it looks like. The one thing that both the Infinity and the WP have over the less expensive ones is that they both ride the fence from above. This protects the base from getting cut by the blade.

Anyway, I do like it a lot but do not think I personally would not have spent what each product demands. Mine cost me less than $30.

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WOW...
Whoa whoa.. I didn't insinuate you were a liar, if you took it that way I appologize. I was simply wondering what the cost of that jig would be to anyone who had to assign some value to purchasing the parts that are simply not common in the shop. Like knobs at 3-4$ each, sheets of plastic would have to be purchased by the average joe, knurled knobs, all-thread, tubing, track, and so on. Free from work is one thing, leftovers were at one time purchased, and so on.

While that jig may have cost YOU 30 it likely couldnt be built for that. My jig for instance cost me nearly nothing, I bought a huge box of destacos at an auction for peanuts.. Probably less than a buck each. But 25 bucks is likely what the two would cost with some freight. Sticky backed rule was free to me, a vendor shipped me a bunch for replacements on a tool with bad scales and I never used them, they go for 6 bucks or so, I threw in 10.

All I'm saying is the jigs in consideration are pretty cheap at 100+. The OP mentioned building one and the parts costing more than hoped for. Someone considering building one and thinking that jig that is "yours" can be had for 30 bucks is a little miss leading and I'm not insinuating you were intentionally trying to mislead so let's extinguish that fire.

To me, when the parts exceed 30% of the purchase price of something commercially available, and I still have to build it, it goes out of consideration. Thats just me.

It was obvious and understood that "you" likely got all these parts for free or scavenged, good for you. It's great you have access to it.

Sorry for getting you in a twist.

[Charles Brown]

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Aigner make a nice coping jig, available from several sources.............Rod.

This is the best (and simplest) coping sled out there. No need to fuss over mitre gauge alignment or anything. Best tool I've used for coping (short of my sliding-table on the shaper).

[Peter Quinn]

I prefer to answer the question asked, not offer unsolicited information here. I have owned both but kept the Infiinity. It's better made, has more abilities, and seems to possess better clamping ability than the Woodpeckers. Woodpeckers does make good products, but the Infinity coping sled proves superior to the Woodpeckers.

I prefer to see most posts here as a launch point for a potentially interesting conversation about a topic. For instance "I need a coping sled...." Enough said, lets discuss that. Few issues are ever as clean and dry as A or B, black and white, yes or no. Even the op's pole offers more options than that. Perhaps it's the non conformist in me, perhaps I'm a closet Buddhist, but I prefer to analyze the question and its askers motivations in search of the answer rather than jump to attention military fashion "Sir, yes sir, I'd choose option A sir...."

[Brian Kerley]

I guess I don't see why you would need an expensive coping sled....

A hardwood runner for your miter slot. A piece of tempered hardboard for the base. A hard wood fence. And a couple of toggle clamps from HF for $5 a piece. You'd have a very simple fence that will make 90 degree copes all day long for less than a jackson.

[Charles Brown]

I prefer to see most posts here as a launch point for a potentially interesting conversation about a topic. For instance "I need a coping sled...." Enough said, lets discuss that. Few issues are ever as clean and dry as A or B, black and white, yes or no. Even the op's pole offers more options than that. Perhaps it's the non conformist in me, perhaps I'm a closet Buddhist, but I prefer to analyze the question and its askers motivations in search of the answer rather than jump to attention military fashion "Sir, yes sir, I'd choose option A sir...."

Peter, I don't understand the need to rehash this. Didn't I already state that unequivocally, the best coping sled out there was the Aigner? I believe I did. I thought that's where the discussion reached a fitting denouement and we all went about our respective ways?

No?

[Stew Hagerty]

Well... This thread has certainly devolved. I've gotten several good answers to my question though.

In response to a few posts, I have definitely made up my mind that I am going to purchase a sled rather than build one, regardless of how elaborate or how simple you may have made one.

I also do appreciate alternate suggestions but so far, except for the "Aigner", I have already looked at each of them before narrowing my choices to either the Woodpeckers or the Infinity.

Mark & Cyrus... I do have to admit, that when I first saw Mark's post that I thought $30 was way underestimated. However, it then occurred to me that you must have an enviable scrap pile (by the way, could you please give me your address so that I can come raid it...:D) so I for one didn't consider it a "lie".

Now, that I have caught up with the conversation, I would still appreciate any further votes &/or comments.

Thanks,

[Peter Quinn]

Peter, I don't understand the need to rehash this. Didn't I already state that unequivocally, the best coping sled out there was the Aigner? I believe I did. I thought that's where the discussion reached a fitting denouement and we all went about our respective ways?

No?

Not sure the discussion ended there exactly. My post was relative to dogmatism more so than coping sleds. I've considered the aigner, discussed it in other posts, have never fully understood if it would be effective for thicker and or wider material like 9 1/2" entry door bottom rails specifically. Another nice feature in a sled is angled work, can an angled block be affixed to the countermax to allow and grain work on angled stock, such as panels going up stairs?

I've recently bought a small slab of 3/4" garolite and will soon be making a sled that rides the fence like the aigner, but allows for angles nd very quick changes or refreshing of the backer block. I have yet to see a comercial solution that is as versatile as I require, maybe the SCMI bolt on tenon tables, but that's a rather expensive and intrusive solution for my own needs presently.

seems the op has reached his conclusions, and that's a good thing. I've often found that I could reach a conclusion that works for me at a given moment, but fall back to a conversation years later and realize my needs had changed, and see more value in other solutions.

[Mark Bolton]

I prefer to analyze the question and its askers motivations in search of the answer rather than jump to attention military fashion "Sir, yes sir, I'd choose option A sir...."

Here here. Cant count the times Ive asked a question thinking answer was A, B, or C, to find the solution in answer J.

[Mark Bolton]

I would still appreciate any further votes &/or comments.Thanks,

Yeah yeah, I know, your in a buying mood... So I reluctantly voted for the infinity only for the clamps. If your ever going to make a bunch of parts cranking down hand screws would simply be too slow as well as having to pass parts under a set of rails. I can only assume by the photo that those destaco clamps when fully retracted are up out of the way which gives a lot more space for picking/placing parts. So for those reasons only the infinity gets the vote.

[Jeff Duncan]

Peter, I don't understand the need to rehash this. Didn't I already state that unequivocally, the best coping sled out there was the Aigner? I believe I did. I thought that's where the discussion reached a fitting denouement and we all went about our respective ways?

No?

Not to beat a dead horse but..........

Depends on how one defines "best" no? So here's a rough analogy.....one may need a way to put a 1/2" roundover on multiple wood pieces. Now the "best" shaper out there would likely be a Martin, coupled with a feeder and some nice European made tooling and you could get those round overs done quite nicely for $60k or so. Of course if one can't shake $60k of loose change out of their couch cushions.....well then it may not be the "best" way? in which case the "best" may be a setup that'll get it done just as well but is also going to produce a healthy ROI:rolleyes:

Similarly since I can't find the loose change to purchase what one persons opinion considers "the best"....an Aigner, I instead build my sleds out of scrap. They work as fast as I can safely move so for me there's no advantage to spending more. With the real point being that when someone looks at one of my doors....there's no possible way they could tell what kind of jig I used to build them:D

Hence I agree with Peter, it's good to have an open dialog where these things can be discussed, vs a courtroom lawyer style "yes or no, we don't need your elaboration" style format:p

JeffD

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

I didn't insinuate you were a liar, if you took it that way I appologize.

No need Mark. May I extend an apology also. Yeah, I am lucky with some of the bits I can get my hands on at times. Some of my coworkers joke about it when I will take something home instead of letting it get thrown away. They usually ask me before tossing something.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Joe, as always, you are a gentleman and a fountain of information.

To everyone else:I very much enjoyed the workshop (Alpine Technical in Ouray, Colorado) and would highly recommend it to anyone wanting to learn about shapers.

[thomas prusak]

Infinity imho is much more user friendly and better built. I sold my woodpecker sled, and it worked ok but

is not one of woodpeckers better tools . Again thats an opinion not a fact. just trying to helpthough

[Charles Brown]

Hence I agree with Peter, it's good to have an open dialog where these things can be discussed, vs a courtroom lawyer style "yes or no, we don't need your elaboration" style format:p

JeffD

Clearly Jeff, you and Peter are fair too open minded for the likes of me. I was merely chiding Peter for looking at this through an analytical and thoughtful lens. Frankly, it's nice to see questions asked that are beyond the "Do I need a shaper if I have a router table?" level that plague this forum.

In full disclosure, I've mainly used mine with cabinet door parts. When I do passage doors it is typically done on the sliding-table shaper.

Peter is correct with the assumption that it would be challenging to use the Aigner with a 9 1/2" bottom rail. The thicker pieces seem to work fine (watch the Felder window tooling video to see demonstration).

[Stew Hagerty]

Not to beat a dead horse but..........

Depends on how one defines "best" no? So here's a rough analogy.....one may need a way to put a 1/2" roundover on multiple wood pieces. Now the "best" shaper out there would likely be a Martin, coupled with a feeder and some nice European made tooling and you could get those round overs done quite nicely for $60k or so. Of course if one can't shake $60k of loose change out of their couch cushions.....well then it may not be the "best" way? in which case the "best" may be a setup that'll get it done just as well but is also going to produce a healthy ROI:rolleyes:

Similarly since I can't find the loose change to purchase what one persons opinion considers "the best"....an Aigner, I instead build my sleds out of scrap. They work as fast as I can safely move so for me there's no advantage to spending more. With the real point being that when someone looks at one of my doors....there's no possible way they could tell what kind of jig I used to build them:D

Hence I agree with Peter, it's good to have an open dialog where these things can be discussed, vs a courtroom lawyer style "yes or no, we don't need your elaboration" style format:p

JeffD

Jeff & Peter,

There is one fault in your way of looking at this. I never asked what is the best coping sled in the world. I asked those that have used one or both of my choices which one they preferred and why. I stated very specifically that I was not going to build my own sled. And that I had researched the marketplace prior to narrowing my list to two possibilities. I admit that Idid allow 4 choices in the poll. However, I meant choices 3 & 4 to be humorous. When I said: "none, who needs a sled anyway" I did not mean: "neither of the store-bought ones. Build one from scrap instead.". And lastly, it's my thread. I should get to decide what is discussed and how.
I asked a simple question and somewhere along the line it got lost in bickering back & forth amongst several people. Why can't we all just be civil. A community like this is supposed to promote fellowship and facilitate the sharing of knowledge and experience.

[J.R. Rutter]

And lastly, it's my thread. I should get to decide what is discussed and how.

lol! Good one! Hope you are happy with whichever you end up with.

[Jeff Duncan]

Stew, I was actually responding to Charles's thread about "the best" b/c I thought it was pretty funny/facetious, it wasn't a response to your question. I just figured I'd throw a little back his way....sometimes a little fun is OK, it won't hurt you;) I think most of the bickering was in good taste:cool:

As an aside SMC is still to my knowledge an open forum. Although you may have posted it, once it's up it's everyones thread, and as such we're going to discuss it in the way WE like. Of course if you don't want an open discussion some place like North Korea may be more suitable to you.......that was a joke too man...lighten up:p Here's the thing, we discuss stuff here, it's what we do if you don't like my recommendations that's OK, you can move to the next one. I'm not trying to brain wash you or anyone else, and my feeling is there is no such thing as too much knowledge.....the opposite of that is entirely different:o

good luck,
JeffD

[Stephen Cherry]

Frankly, it's nice to see questions asked that are beyond the "Do I need a shaper if I have a router table?" .

What :eek:

That question is as fundamental to human inquiry as the chicken-egg issue. It's fun every time that it is asked.

[Peter Quinn]

Stew, I was actually responding to Charles's thread about "the best" b/c I thought it was pretty funny/facetious, it wasn't a response to your question. I just figured I'd throw a little back his way....sometimes a little fun is OK, it won't hurt you;) I think most of the bickering was in good taste:cool:

As an aside SMC is still to my knowledge an open forum. Although you may have posted it, once it's up it's everyones thread, and as such we're going to discuss it in the way WE like. Of course if you don't want an open discussion some place like North Korea may be more suitable to you.......that was a joke too man...lighten up:p Here's the thing, we discuss stuff here, it's what we do if you don't like my recommendations that's OK, you can move to the next one. I'm not trying to brain wash you or anyone else, and my feeling is there is no such thing as too much knowledge.....the opposite of that is entirely different:o

good luck,
JeffD


Here Here. Public forum, conversation mutates, tolerance required. I'll certainly try.

[Don Morris]

Stew,

Wonderful comment about sharing our knowledge and experience. We were doing fine until we were told not to offer unsolicited information. That's sometimes is from which I get the best information in a thread. I often didn't realize a subtle point that is clarified or elaborated, often explaining some phenomena that I just didn't understand. I brag to friends about the congeniality of creekers and my experience on the threads. I enjoy the humorous interplay between obvious friends though, as long as it's also obvious that it's humourously (I think that's a word) facitious in intent.

[Stew Hagerty]

Stew, I was actually responding to Charles's thread about "the best" b/c I thought it was pretty funny/facetious, it wasn't a response to your question. I just figured I'd throw a little back his way....sometimes a little fun is OK, it won't hurt you;) I think most of the bickering was in good taste:cool:

As an aside SMC is still to my knowledge an open forum. Although you may have posted it, once it's up it's everyones thread, and as such we're going to discuss it in the way WE like. Of course if you don't want an open discussion some place like North Korea may be more suitable to you.......that was a joke too man...lighten up:p Here's the thing, we discuss stuff here, it's what we do if you don't like my recommendations that's OK, you can move to the next one. I'm not trying to brain wash you or anyone else, and my feeling is there is no such thing as too much knowledge.....the opposite of that is entirely different:o

good luck,
JeffD


Here Here. Public forum, conversation mutates, tolerance required. I'll certainly try.


Stew,

Wonderful comment about sharing our knowledge and experience. We were doing fine until we were told not to offer unsolicited information. That's sometimes is from which I get the best information in a thread. I often didn't realize a subtle point that is clarified or elaborated, often explaining some phenomena that I just didn't understand. I brag to friends about the congeniality of creekers and my experience on the threads. I enjoy the humorous interplay between obvious friends though, as long as it's also obvious that it's humourously (I think that's a word) facitious in intent.

Just to be clear... When I said "it's my thread. I should get to decide what is discussed and how", I was referring to the bickering. If you note, my next statements were about keeping it civil.

I do appreciate an open discussion and alternative ideas. In fact, in a previous post I said: "I also do appreciate alternate suggestions but so far, except for the "Aigner", I have already looked at each of them before narrowing my choices to either the Woodpeckers or the Infinity"

Really guys, like I said in the post, all I was trying to do was clarify some things for my poll

I apologize if I stated things in such a way that I upset anyone.

[Mark Bolton]

I dont think there is much to worry about Stew. The simple fact of the matter is, as has been stated, this is just the way conversations work. At the coffee shop, at the barber, at the bar, on and on. But for some reason there are always the people on these forums who want to make the place into some sort of military boot camp in an attempt to head off any "heat". Its a romantic notion, but barring some jack boot heavy handed controls its just gonna happen. Irregardless of how you tried to frame your poll you were going to get every option under the sun and then some. Better to just know that ahead of time and live with it because its just the way life is :)

[Prashun Patel]

If we heavy-handedly jackboot control anything, it should be the use of the word, "irregardless". :eek:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

While it's not heavy-handed, jack-booted, if someone asks about "a" or "b", common courtesy should limit the comments to the specifics of the question and poll.

Obviously the OP has already determined it is going to "a" or "b" and any other comments are not relevant.

[Michael Dunn]

I didn't have the time to read the entire thread, but you may want to check out Marc Spagnuolo's video demo called 'The Coping Cabana'. I can't remember the make and model of the featured item though.

[Stew Hagerty]

I didn't have the time to read the entire thread, but you may want to check out Marc Spagnuolo's video demo called 'The Coping Cabana'. I can't remember the make and model of the featured item though.

I always enjoy Mark's videos. Thank you Michael, I had not seen that one.

[Stew Hagerty]

While it's not heavy-handed, jack-booted, if someone asks about "a" or "b", common courtesy should limit the comments to the specifics of the question and poll.

Obviously the OP has already determined it is going to "a" or "b" and any other comments are not relevant.

Thank you Ken.

[Stew Hagerty]

I would like to thank all of you who voted and/or commented. The poll results and the comments (regardless of their tone, level of divergence, temperament, or contentiousness) have helped me to decide, by a narrow margin, to purchase the Infinity sled over the Woodpeckers model. I'll suppose I will have to call Richard & apologize for straying from the WP Red... :o

Once again, I am sorry if I offended anyone in the course of this thread. That was never my intent.

Thanks again

[Rick Potter]

IT's been almost 5 years, Stew. Did you get the Infinity? If so, How do you like it?

I have built three, and have wanted improvement on each, so am thinking about the same decision you were contemplating.

Rick P

[Martin Wasner]

Rick, what's your budget? The infinity looks like DS to me and a waste of money. I'd keep building them if you're looking at that.

Reliable Copecrafter isn't cheap, but doesn't feel like a complete waste of money to me.

http://www.relcuttools.com/copecrafter.shtml

[Randy Henry]

This is what I use, and it works great. It is a Weaver knock-off. I keep the shaper top and the bottom of this waxed and it slides like its on bearings. It is very fast, as the only clamp is the handle. There is a metal bar on the bottom that rides in the miter slot on the shaper. This one came from Ballew Saw and Tool in Springfield, Mo. If I remember correctly, it was approx. $100, but that was several years ago. The ones with the toggle clamps, both air and manual, would drive me crazy as it is just too many steps. On this one, the same handle you squeeze to clamp the wood is the same handle you use to push the sled through. If you go to the Weaver website, there is a video of it being used. After having it now, it would be very easy to build.

[Jan Smith]

Bump since I am in the market now too.


I didn't have the time to read the entire thread, but you may want to check out Marc Spagnuolo's video demo called 'The Coping Cabana'. I can't remember the make and model of the featured item though.
That was funny and he used a version of
https://www.eagleamerica.com/product/v400-1020/router_access_-_router_jigs

Does anyone uses one of those and can share their experience?

[glenn bradley]

I need a coping sled. I thought about building one but, after estimating the cost of toggle clamps, phenolic, aluminum plate, and lexan, I decided I might as well by a good one.

I dunno; $35 versus $150?

419165 . 419166

Bear in mind that I don't use mine often. If it were an every day tool I would beef things up so commercial may be the way to go.

[Ben Rivel]

I have a Woodpeckers version that I never opened because that Infinity Pro just looked so much better. That or just building your own...

[Ole Anderson]

Old thread, but here is one I made from scraps I had around the shop, including the aluminum plate. Used it on two sets of kitchen cabs and a big computer hutch, all raised panel with rails and styles (not shown in the pic is the vertical handle off a PC drill):