Box Form Help

[Kathy Marshall]

I've been wanting to turn this type of box form for a little while, especially after seeing the ones posted by Tim Mann a few weeks ago. So this weekend I grabbed one of the pieces of citrus wood I had left (pretty stable and easy to turn) and turned this little practice box just to work on the form.
I'm pretty happy with the box part, but the lid is off (it's not sitting completely on the box because the box rim moved just a tiny bit :eek:). Ignore the little button on top. I was turning a knob for it, got the base a little too narrow and it snapped right off. If I decide to finish the lid, I'll drill a small hole and turn a little knob for it. A little sanding should be enough to get the lid to fit.

I'm thinking the dome is too tall and should have more of an ogee to it. Thoughts or suggestions?

It's about 3 3/4" x 3 1/2", no finish yet just a coat of sanding sealer.
258872
Thanks for looking!
Comments and critiques are welcome.

[Richard Jones]

Kathy,

It's hard to improve, at least for my eye, Mike Stafford's form on boxes similar to yours. Like you, I do like the base of this one pretty much as is. I found when doing these that the lids wind up quite a bit shorter than what you would expect. Of course, the big kicker is not to hollow too much or it will HAVE to be tall........

i also like the rim to have a good coved section from rim to top of base, seems to set up your eye for the rest of the lid and provides a good flow from bottom to top.

I love boxes!

Here's one of Mike's boxes with a similar base. 258877

His boxes are both inspiring and humbling. Elegant utilitarianism at its finest.

[John Keeton]

Kathy, I suspect there are an unlimited number of ways one could do this type of form. I have never turned a box, though I enjoy seeing all that are posted. This is one version that might be considered. I reduced the diameter of the lid a bit and lowered the top. As you note, the height of the top throws off the proportions.

[Thom Sturgill]

John showed a good modification in line with what you were thinking. For this form the top, (to the base of the knob, if any) should be about the same in height as the width of the box at its widest. JMHO, of course, brings the overall shape back to approximately spherical.

[Tim Rinehart]

I think the bottom of this form looks really nice. Johns shorter version is what I also have in mind. Again, like so many proportions, it always looks shorter on the lathe. There's more to a pleasing box than some folks realize. I find them a bit challenging, including getting a proper fit of the lid.

[Michael Stafford]

I like the shape of the body of your box. You have a beautiful continuous curve from the top shoulder to the bottom and I like the small diameter upon which the box sits. The major diameter of the body appears to be 2/3 of its height which is always a pretty good proportion. The lid diameter looks good to me. If the lid diameter is too close to the box body diameter it will overwhelm the appearance of the box. The edge of the lid looks to be a little too thin to my eye. The dome in the center of the lid is too tall and too large in diameter. I like for the dome in the top of the lid to look as if it is a continuation of the curve at the top shoulder of the body of the box. If that is used to determine the height the lid height will more closely approximate the modified version that John Keeton provided. That modification would also result in a reduction of the diameter of the dome in the lid which helps to move the beginning of the dome away from the edge of the lid.

In most of my boxes of this style the lid ends up being between 30% and 33% of the total height.

With respect to the wood moving on you. Dry wood is essential for boxes. Even though you live in a dry climate the wood in a box of this size will more than likely move/react to being exposed to the atmosphere after you do some hollowing. For that reason I rough hollow and I do not determine the final lid fit until the wood has had time to acclimate after hollowing. It is not unusual for me to rough hollow boxes and let them sit for weeks, months or even longer to stabilize. I have boxes full of rough hollowed blanks that are years old. Of course you need to have a plan for the box when you rough hollow as it is not a case of one rough hollowed blank being good for all boxes.

This is particularly true for exotics which invariably are much wetter than you think. They need to stabilize for a long time after rough hollowing. You mentioned that it was citrus wood. It resembles the grapefruit stock I have turned from southern California. The wood was very dry when my friend sent it to me. However when it reached my humid climate some of it began to split and move a lot after rough hollowing. I had to learn to rough hollow it a little thinner than I was accustomed to doing for other woods. Its dryness sucked up the moisture in my area. The grapefruit wood makes for a wonderful box when finished and its hardness is wonderful to turn.

All of that said I think your box is very nice. You could remove the little nub left from the knob and it would be a perfectly acceptable box. I don't usually have a knob on box lids unless the lid is a loose fit and can be removed with one hand. Generally I turn boxes of this type so that the lid is a suction fit.

Keep 'em coming. I would love to see you turn this box form and incorporate your piercing and pyrography techniques into the design. I bet that would result in a special box.

[charlie knighton]

boxes, they are fun, i also think you nailed the form of the body, good suggestions for the top

recently there was an articule in American Woodturner titled , Crossgrain Jewelry Boxes, ​very good article

there was a gallery of boxes after the article with some outstanding boxes

variety is fun also

Bonnie Klein had a high dome box with carving, i really like it

[David C. Roseman]

Michael Stafford wrote:

With respect to the wood moving on you. Dry wood is essential for boxes. Even though you live in a dry climate the wood in a box of this size will more than likely move/react to be exposed to the atmosphere after you do some hollowing. For that reason I rough hollow and I do not determine the final lid fit until the wood has had time to acclimate after hollowing.

I've just started playing around with small boxes, and see why folks like them so much. I've been using green wood for practice since we have a lot of cut-offs from bowl blanks. I've found that roughing one out, either side or end grain, then popping it in the microwave works surprisingly well with wet Black Walnut! (Full power for 1 minute in a plastic bag, allow to cool in open air, repeat many times). Wondering if many others have tried this. Boxes seem well suited to microwave drying because they can be roughed thin pretty quickly.

David

[Roger Chandler]

+1 on the advise from John Keeton.......he put in picture what my initial reaction was to the lid......those proportions in his picture will surely help. I really like Mike Stafford's advice to you......I gained a pointer or two from his advice as well............thanks Mike!

Nice box Kathy....they are fun and a great way to utilize small pieces of wood and gain something useful from something that would otherwise go in the burn pile.

[Reed Gray]

John, I need to learn your computer skills..... I think the thing that makes John's lid work is that the curve on the lid comes close to matching the curves on the bottom. They don't have to match exactly, but do need to compliment each other. Most of my boxes are more cylindrical, and pretty minimalistic for design. I think it was Richard Raffen who would rough turn box blanks and tape the ends together to let them dry first before finish turning. Even dry wood moves as mass is removed, and it isn't always moisture content that causes the wood to move. I have tried to draw things out before hand, but the finished project never seems to come close to the drawings. Most of the time, I just eyeball it.

robo hippy

[Harry Robinette]

I think you have the box part right on. If it was me I would lift the lid a little higher from the box to the bottom of the lid and then do what JK said thin the dome down a little.Look at R.Raffan boxes or R.Key they all have a little larger area between the bottom an the tops bottom edge.
Just what my eye's see.

[Timothy Mann]

Very nicely done on the shape of the box Kathy, I agree with the above comments on the lid shape. Mike S does some of the most beautiful boxes I have seen, he has certainly been a big influence on my turning.

[Kathy Marshall]

Thanks guys for all the helpful comments!

John, your version makes a big difference and I think I have enough meat left in the lid to cut it down close to that.

Richard, thank for posting one of Mike's boxes, a beautiful example!

David, turning boxes is definitely addicting and there seems to be an infinite variety of forms to turn.



Keep 'em coming. I would love to see you turn this box form and incorporate your piercing and pyrography techniques into the design. I bet that would result in a special box.
Michael, thanks for some Very helpful information! After Richard posted one of your boxes, I knew I had seen and admired your work before. And yes, this one was practice for another that will be pierced and burned.

I finished this one up tonight. It's a little closer to my vision but I should have had these responses in front of me when I turned it! I should have made the opening a little smaller so the lid rim diameter could be a little smaller, but I'm still happy with it. The walls are turned thin (about 1/16" or less) in preparation for piercing. Now I just need to decide on the final patterns for the piercing and pyro. It's about 3 1/2" x 4" and no finish yet.
258977258978
Thanks everyone!

[Michael Stafford]

Kathy, your box looks great. I think the wood must be grapefruit although I have not turned any other citrus woods to know if they are different. The color and grain look similar to what I have.

Can't wait to see the pierced and burned product.