What would your next step be on this saw?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I finally got around to sharpening up this No. 12 I picked up for 3 bucks (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?175126-3-dollar-No-12) back in November. . . . of 2011. I don't even remember when, but I guess I did clean up the plate and repair the handle at some point in the past. I've been on a saw sharpening kick lately after re-jiggering the saw vise. (Not that I'd turn down a Gramercy or vintage saw vise if anyone's looking to unload one!)

A heavy jointing and some file work on the flat "half tooth" at the handle end of the blade took care of the worst of the wave in the height of the sawteeth. As you can see, there's still a fair amount of breasting towards the saw. Certainly more than I've ever worked with.

I think the plan at this point is to make another quick pass and perfect the sharpening, and see how it handles. I'm curious what others would do here - should I try and remove more of the breasting over time? Try and remove it all or most of it at once? It seems like a breasting more appropriate for a logging saw, not a 26", 7pt rip saw.

For what it's worth, the toothline in the photo is next to a 4ft level, and it starts bowing away from the level around 8 or 9 inches from the tip of the saw. At the very tip, the tooth line is around 7/16" away from the level.

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[Isaac Smith]

I would not try to remove the breasting. It is a traditional way of filing handsaws, particularly rip saws. You may notice a marginal advantage to leaving it breasted; at worst, it will not hinder the performance.

[Jim Palmer]

If anything, I'd balance the breasted tooth line so it's more central to the blade length and this would make it possible for you to reduce the gap at the nose of the saw plate by half. You can use a flexi-strip of plastic or wood to lay out the curve.

[David Weaver]

I would leave it as such, also. That (narrow) end of the saw doesn't do the brunt of the work and it would be a shame both to waste the time and files on it as well as a shame to run off some of the plate to gain no advantage in use.

Get the teeth relatively common to their next-tooth bretheren and file it and use it. A long rip will tell you when a saw needs more work, a whole lot of saws get a lot of cosmetic work when they don't need it to be useful, and files aren't cheap.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Thanks for the advice guys - that's kind of what I'm thinking.

I made a quick rip in a short length of poplar 3/4" stock. Initial reaction that was that it was a very smooth cut compared to what I've been using for a rip saw. Not sure if that is the reduced set of the slightly relaxed rake - my other rip saw is straight up 0; this I relaxed by a degree or two maybe.

So I figured what the heck; I had this piece of 2"ish maple that I wanted to rip a couple of inches off, crosscut, and re-saw to try and make blanks for saw handles. (Again, wishing I had something a little coarser - resawing a 6 inch square piece of maple isn't fun with the 7 pt saw.)

Initial reactions from the rip (only 9 or so inches in 2" material) and resaw is mixed - I had it sharper than I thought, but I still think a quick pass with the file would help. I'm not sure I'm not really sure I'm noticing the breasting of the saw, particularly in the resaw. A longer rip will tell me better, I suppose.

26" is definitely just about as long as I want to go, I think - physically, I could probably do a little longer stroke, but I'd need taller saw benches. I whacked the saw plate on the floor once.

The cut action definitely feels a lot smoother - again, I don't know if this the slightly relaxed rake, the reduced set, or the thinner plate compared to what I've been using for a rip saw.

Of the most concern is the "floppy" feel of the saw - it's not terrible, but it's taking a little getting used to. On occasion, I'm getting the vibrating "thwip" on the return stroke, and it's definitely going to be easier to jam the blade in the cut (although I didn't really do that)

I haven't figured out how to tell if this floppiness is just because the plate is noticeably thinner than what I've been using, or if this saw has been sharpened past the tensioned part of the blade. It definitely "rings" a little less when struck and bent (like Roy Underhill does every time he picks up a saw) than my other saws. I don't really have enough saw experience to tell. Given that I've only got three bucks and a few hours into the thing, I wouldn't mind trying my hand at hammer tensioning after seeing Bob Smalser's info here, but I've got to get a better feel with it to see if it's warranted.

In the end, best three bucks I've spent in a while, even if it did take me more than a year to put it to use, and I have to thank my wife for going back to the re-store to pick it up for me.

[Jim Matthews]

I find that the twang on return is an indication that I'm no longer cutting parallel to my reference (top) face.

The saw is trying to remain straight, while I force it to track a curve.
It generally happens when I'm bearing down, and my hand has drifted toward my side.

To fight that, I usually lower my hand to "soften" the angle of attack.

[Jim Palmer]

The effect from breasting tends to be a more relaxed and constant rate of cut than with a straight tooth line and is often well worth the effort. An accurate gauge of performance could be made if using duplicate saws with the same tooth configuration, but one with and one without a breasted tooth line. All points along the length of a saw plate count toward it's performance.

[Mike Allen1010]

Hi Joshua,

You've got a lot of great advice here already.

For what it's worth, I absolutely would not try to correct the breasting of the tooth line. What you have now or will work great. Maybe next sharpening, joint the teeth towards the heel a little more -- that will get you closer to a smooth convex curve-- which is really more cosmetic and functional.

You are talking about smoothness related to what you're currently using now. Without knowing what you're comparing to, its hard to say, but the #12's have a very significant degree of double taper grind on the plate (from thicker at the tooth line/heel to thinner at the top line/toe) than most saws. Accordingly, they're a lot smoother through the kerf then something with less taper grinding.

"Wipyness" of the tip is not unusual with significantly taper ground saws , especially when you're working hard in a long rip. Try some paraffin wax and focus on being on smooth and perpendicular. If the Wipyness persists, you may have too much set. One way to tell is if you're able to significantly "steer" the cut relative to the layout line then you likely have more set than you need.

The best advice I ever got regarding hand saws was "Start straight, stays straight". Some people like to be able to steer the saw relative to the layout line throughout the cut, IMHO once your technique and saw set up our solid, you should be able to start your saw right on a layout line and pretty much close your eyes and it will auto pilot track straight.


Good for you Josh tuning up that #12! It sounds like you are well on your way to having a great performing ripsaw.

All the best, Mike

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Thanks again, folks.

Like Jim says, I think the whipping was mostly me drifting - I think in particular, I think it was a bit of offset when my cuts from each corner in the re-saw joined. Looking back, I don't think it exhibited this during the normal ripping.

The rip saw I've been using (and really my only point of comparison) is a plate from a Warranted Superior No. 8 / D8 style grafted onto a Disston No. 7 handle. Effective length ends up a couple inches shorter than this No. 12. It has a thicker plate and more set, but the same tooth count as this No. 12.

Given everyones input, I'll follow my initial instinct and leave the breasting as is - as I get more experience and see what I like about the feel, I'll make more of a call as far as whether to work towards reducing it a bit as further sharpenings happen.

Looking at the kerf on this guy, I don't think it's got too much set - certainly less than my other (formerly primary?) rip saw - not that that was an overly set saw to begin with. I haven't really measured it to check though, either. I've got a D-115/Victory saw that still needs sharpening with a crazy amount of set on it. . . I guess when I get around to that, it'll be more my softwood saw, although it might be the one to leave; three of the four nicer old saws I've got are 7 pts. . .




The best advice I ever got regarding hand saws was "Start straight, stays straight". Some people like to be able to steer the saw relative to the layout line throughout the cut, IMHO once your technique and saw set up our solid, you should be able to start your saw right on a layout line and pretty much close your eyes and it will auto pilot track straight.


Definitely ! I don't know when I really learned that bit - it feels like it's been ages now since that dawned on me, but I wish someone had beaten it into my head sooner. My other rip I can "steer" a tiny bit if I really tried on thinner stock; but short of tilting the handle back to the board and really sort of re-establishing the cut, it's not much happening. My initial reaction to this No. 12 is that it's a little tighter than that. I kind of like that. I need to do some longer cuts to really evaluate how well it tracks.

I was kind of hoping to cycle this guy into the rotation as my regular rip, and cycle my other into a rough crosscut, but I'm thinking I might be better off leaving the other one with the set it has for rips in softwoods or stuff that's not quite as dry, the little bit of extra set might be nice. The extra couple of inches in this guy might be most appreciated in hardwoods, as it is.

Hopefully this weekend I get to give it another run through it's paces and spend some time comparing it to my other rip.

[Jim Matthews]

I've taken to scoring a knife line, and marking parallel "tracks" on either side of it for long rips.

My eyesight isn't what it used to be, and the lines act as guides for me to follow.
A knife line is more for crosscutting, but I'm in the habit of scoring to mark as a matter of course.

The saw might track better for the knife line, but on rip cuts I can't see how it much matters.
(I read this as a tossed-off notion from either Jim Tolpin or Jeff Miller and can't recall who said it... the "road marks" on either side of the cut really help me stay on track.)

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Yeah, I was doing that, but lately have just gone for a fat pencil line - fatter than the kerf is wide, and aim for splitting that. Big ol' pencil line leaves me a bit of mark on each side. Same kind of idea - helps me track better than doing what works for fine cuts, trying to edge right up on a single line.

For resawing, I mark my boards from each side with a gauge, which leaves a track to shoot for right down the center - and it really helps me there.

[Mike Siemsen]

I wonder if that saw isn't filed that way to start piercing cuts in the middle of floors or roofs or something. whippyness can be a sign that a saw needs to be tensioned. At 7 points it could be either crosscut or rip filed. Always fun to speculate

[Jim Koepke]

For long rips a chalk line works great.

jtk