US Postal Service

[Chris Rosenberger]

If the following tracking information is correct, it is no wonder the USPS is having money problems.
According to the tracking, the package went at least 500 more miles out of the way.

Out for Delivery
Apr-02-13, 07:37 AM, LIBERTY, IN 47353
Sorting Complete
Apr-02-13, 07:27 AM, LIBERTY, IN 47353
Arrival at Post Office
Apr-02-13, 07:19 AM, LIBERTY, IN 47353
Processed at USPS Origin Sort Facility
Mar-31-13, 06:27 AM, WARRENDALE, PA 15095

Depart USPS Sort Facility
Mar-31-13, 00:00 AM, WARRENDALE, PA 15095
Dispatched to Sort Facility
Mar-29-13, 17:09 PM, BREMEN, IN 46506
Acceptance
Mar-29-13, 13:04 PM, BREMEN, IN 46506

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Chris....they used scheduled trucking routes, rather than a special trip direct from Bremen to Liberty. While it may be 500 miles out of the way, it is also a trip that is made daily so it makes sense.

[Darius Ferlas]

What Ken says.

I receive frequent shipments of computer equipment from the US, using UPS.
All shipments so far have been passing through Niagara, where I live, up to Concord, ON distribution center just over 100 miles North of me. It then comes back the same 100 miles South to Niagara.

The electronic age put a lot of postal services around the world in a difficult situation. A lot of companies charge extra for written statements, while the electronic record access is free. Who sends letter mail anymore? Wifey went to EU for couple of few weeks. Lot's of BBMs, emails, texts and voice chats. No postcard.

Heck, if it weren't for my woodworking hobby I wouldn't have many opportunities to hold a pencil in my hand.

[David Weaver]

I'm sure (well, I'd guess) their routes are figured in such a way that their costs are minimized overall, even if individual service routes (like the ones to you) don't make sense.

There's an entire area of (mathematical) study regarding that, and I'd imagine computer power has really streamlined it. If you're a math major, you get exposure to some lightweight theory about it in a linear programming course (simplex method, etc), though I'm sure the practical application is much much much more complex to the point that it's beneficial to control costs. It was a long time ago that I took that course, so who know's what's changed.

While the route might seem ridiculous and random, it's likely part of a pretty efficient solution.

[Darius Ferlas]

There's an entire area of (mathematical) study regarding that, and I'd imagine computer power has really streamlined it.
Indeed, the Travelling salesman problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem) is a part of introductory math course in computers science departments. It is only a basic starting point to more complex logistical problems but still, some of the numbers are often counter-intuitive but make perfect mathematical (hence also financial) sense.

[David Weaver]

Indeed, the Travelling salesman problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem) is a part of introductory math course in computers science departments. It is only a basic starting point to more complex logistical problems but still, some of the numbers are often counter-intuitive but make perfect mathematical (hence also financial) sense.

They mixed us (math majors) with computer science engineers (I've never fully understood the difference between computers scientists and computer science engineers) in a 400 level course that provided both programming requirements and mathematical proof requirements. It was bad for the programmers in terms of conquering the math (not a good intro to proofs), and it was bad for the math majors in terms of conquering the programming. That was separate from the linear programming course (which was math only, so the programming was watered down), but there was some overlap. It was a requirement for both, and everyone hated it.

No sense was actually given in those courses how complex it really is to apply theory when there are a LOT of constraints and when demand changes.

[Gary Hodgin]

Airlines use(d) something similar with the hub and spoke system.

[Chris Rosenberger]

Thanks for all of the replies. A lot of good information. Just some things you do not think about.
I was talking about this with my wife at lunch. She told me that if we send a card to an address across the street, it goes to a city over 130 miles away to be sorted & then comes back.
I guess I spend to much time working. My wife works in town, so she takes care of all of our mail & banking. The last time I took a letter to the post office, they had different slots for local & out of town mail.
With all of the miles things travel, it is a little easier to understand how so many things get damaged or lost.

[Stephen Cherry]

With all of the miles things travel, it is a little easier to understand how so many things get damaged or lost.

For the damaged aspect, my guess is most of it is related to inadequate packaging. Years ago, I worked at a shipping company, and almost invariably, damaged packages were related to inadequate packaging. There just was not much of an opportunity for things to get off of the belts to get damaged, but if you send a bowling ball in a light cardboard box, it doesn't take much for it to self destruct.

Also, almost nothing gets damaged while traveling- it's the unload, sort, and load that stress the packaging. So maybe limiting those will reduce the possibility for damage.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Chris,

Clarkston, WA is across the Snake River from Lewiston, Idaho. I drive across one of two bridges to get there. Yet, IIRC, the mail goes to Spokane, WA from either city and then to the destination. They have scheduled truck runs from each city to Spokane.

A friend who I used to elk hunt with used to bid and get contracts to deliver mail between Lewiston, ID and some outlying towns upto 70 miles south.

[Lee Schierer]

FedEx and UPS do the same thing. Here's recent tracking data on a package I sent via FedEx Note that Grove City is Near Columbus Ohio about 120 miles west of Erie):
-

3/26/2013 - Tuesday
12:40 pm
Delivered

Havertown, PA

Left at front door. Signature Service not requested.
7:53 am
On FedEx vehicle for delivery

FOLCROFT, PA
5:34 am
At local FedEx facility

FOLCROFT, PA
2:19 am
Departed FedEx location

LEWISBERRY, PA
-

3/25/2013 - Monday
1:13 pm
Arrived at FedEx location

LEWISBERRY, PA
-

3/23/2013 - Saturday
7:35 am
Departed FedEx location

GROVE CITY, OH
1:51 am
Arrived at FedEx location

GROVE CITY, OH
-

3/22/2013 - Friday
8:56 pm
Left FedEx origin facility

FAIRVIEW, PA
6:20 pm
Arrived at FedEx location

FAIRVIEW, PA
5:16 pm
Picked up

FAIRVIEW, PA
10:12 am
In FedEx possession

ERIE, PA

Tendered at FedEx location
10:12 am
Shipment information sent to FedEx

Select time zone
Shipment Facts
Hide
Tracking number 795770593977
Weight 8.2 lbs
Total pieces 1
Service FedEx Home Delivery
Dimensions 32x24x14 in.
Packaging Package

[Brian Kerley]

I had something that was even better.....

Package started in Tucson. Went to LA (likely through Phoenix mind you) and then back to Phoenix for delivery. About 1000 extra miles of travel. Why they didn't just throw it on a truck headed to phoenix anyways? Who knows

[Larry Frank]

I have no complaints with the postal service. The priority prepaid package service is great along with the tracking information. In addition, my mail delivery person is always pleasant. They can take whatever route is the cheapest and I could care less.

[Bill Huber]

I work at Fedex, it is all about the sort.

I am at the hub in Fort Worth, large automated sort. We get flights in from California. so if you send a package from Oakland to LA it will more then likely go though my hub here if Fort Worth.

So on that plane you have enough packages going to the other cities that come to this hub that we can sort them all and put them on planes.

So on the Oakland flight will have packages going to LA, Chicago, Kansas City, and others. On the LA, Chicago, Kansas City, and others you will have packages going to Oakland. They all get sorted on the automated sort and loaded back on the planes.

It is much cheaper to send it all to the automated sort then to have people sort it at a local site.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I had something that was even better.....

Package started in Tucson. Went to LA (likely through Phoenix mind you) and then back to Phoenix for delivery. About 1000 extra miles of travel. Why they didn't just throw it on a truck headed to phoenix anyways? Who knows

Brian .....that is the point. There is no truck going directly from Tucson to Phoenix for that particular delivery service whether it is USPS, UPS or FedEx. They do have trucks doing scheduled runs overnight from (in your case) Tucson to LA and then from LA to Phoenix. It's cheaper to ship it on a scheduled truck to LA and then on a scheduled truck to Phoenix than to make a special unscheduled delivery or stop in Phoenix.

[Jim Matthews]

If you were in a hurry, 1/2 way at Fort Wayne is what, 90 minutes and a cuppa coffee away?

I find it odd that the cheapest way to ship, which is still the most convenient
can't get any slack from us, the users. The Postal service is a bargain.

[Matt Meiser]

I've been seeing more deliveries lately by these hybrid UPS/USPS or Fedex/USPS services. The latter is really great for me as Fedex delivers the stuff to my post office early enough in the morning that it gets delivered the same day instead of 1 additional day wait. We ordered a case for my daughter's iPod on Saturday afternoon and it was in the mailbox Monday. An air filter I ordered for my wood chipper Sunday morning was here Tuesday.

I'm expecting a package from LV today that was sent regular UPS ground. I'm also expecting something else sent SmartPost which should have been delivered to the post office today and then me tomorrow. UPS recognized that they are already stopping here anyway and the tracking info says they will deliver the SmartPost package directly to me instead. I wonder if USPS still gets revenue from that?

[Brian Kerley]

Brian .....that is the point. There is no truck going directly from Tucson to Phoenix for that particular delivery service whether it is USPS, UPS or FedEx. They do have trucks doing scheduled runs overnight from (in your case) Tucson to LA and then from LA to Phoenix. It's cheaper to ship it on a scheduled truck to LA and then on a scheduled truck to Phoenix than to make a special unscheduled delivery or stop in Phoenix.

I'm aware of there not being a specific truck...

I just figured that any truck from Tucson to LA is going through Phoenix. They probably stop to pick up packages and it would make sense to drop some off that came from other eastern locations but came down the I-10 headed to phoenix. Seems that they could've offloaded at that time instead of having it go on to LA.

That being said, that kind of routing is definitely an NP-hard type issue that is probably next to impossible to optimize...

[Brian Elfert]

I think people comment about perceived inefficiencies at the Post Office because we see articles every other week about how the Post Office is losing so much money.

I don't quite understand how the Post Office thinks they can save hundreds of millions or a billion a year by cutting the number of distribution centers and trucking mail longer distances. The cost of fuel is only going to go up unless someone invents some inexpensive new fuel for vehicles. Once these changes are made no first class mail will be delivered overnight even if sent to the next zip code over. I think this will reduce use of the Post Office even more when mail is never overnight anymore.

[David Weaver]

I think a lot of the expense, like was said earlier in this thread, is in handling the packages. I'd imagine they have a pretty good idea on what will save them money given their size (and ability to hire competent technical help). What they might be guessing at is the mail use for overnight, but what else would you use? UPS will confiscate your wallet if you use anything other than ground. Fed ex isn't cheap, either.

I'd imagine the USPS knows that their money isn't going to be made on letter mail and correspondence in the future, and they probably understand that if they lose a little bit of that in the short term, it won't have much effect in the long term. Packages and bulk mail are going to be what they have to make ends meet.

[Chris Rosenberger]

I think people comment about perceived inefficiencies at the Post Office because we see articles every other week about how the Post Office is losing so much money.

I don't quite understand how the Post Office thinks they can save hundreds of millions or a billion a year by cutting the number of distribution centers and trucking mail longer distances. The cost of fuel is only going to go up unless someone invents some inexpensive new fuel for vehicles. Once these changes are made no first class mail will be delivered overnight even if sent to the next zip code over. I think this will reduce use of the Post Office even more when mail is never overnight anymore.

The fuel cost issue & the huge effect burning all of that extra fuel has on climate change was part of my point.

[Chris Rosenberger]

If you were in a hurry, 1/2 way at Fort Wayne is what, 90 minutes and a cuppa coffee away?

I find it odd that the cheapest way to ship, which is still the most convenient
can't get any slack from us, the users. The Postal service is a bargain.

I guess it depends on how you define cheapest. I do not consider something that has hidden costs higher than the the price payed to be a bargain.

Let's say a private company charges $25 per month to pickup my neighbors trash. He lives outside of town. I live in town & the town charges me $7.50 per month.
On the surface it looks like I am getting a great deal. What is not seen is that $23 per month of what I pay in property taxes also goes to paying for trash pickup.
Not such a great deal after all.

[Stew Hagerty]

I just got some items from eBay that were shipped from Racine, WI. I live in Fort Wayne, IN. That is 238 miles and about a 5 hour drive, even including going through Chicago.

Well these items instead went from Racine, WI to Warrendale, PA - a distance of 519 Miles.

Then they went from Warrendale to Allen Park, MI - a distance of 259 Miles

And then finally they went frm Allen Park to Fort Wayne - a distance of 154 Miles

For a grand total of 931 Miles and 5 days in transit.

[Mark Seidel]

I am a new member(First post) and have been reading everything I can for the past few months. When I came across this thread and I just had to post my tracking info from Feb. I don't think you'll be able to explain away the route it traveled. But your welcome to try. When I saw it in Honolulu I thought they where going around the world just for fun.

Delivered February 28, 2013, 9:31 am
RHINELANDER, WI 54501
Out for Delivery
February 28, 2013, 7:16 am
RHINELANDER, WI 54501
Sorting Complete
February 28, 2013, 7:06 am
RHINELANDER, WI 54501
Arrival at Post Office
February 28, 2013, 1:36 am
RHINELANDER, WI 54501
Processed through USPS Sort Facility
February 27, 2013, 8:11 am
OAK CREEK, WI 53154
Depart USPS Sort Facility
February 26, 2013
OAK CREEK, WI 53154
Processed through USPS Sort Facility
February 26, 2013, 11:27 pm
OAK CREEK, WI 53154
Depart USPS Sort Facility
February 23, 2013
HONOLULU, HI 96820
February 23, 2013, 5:09 pm
Processed through USPS Sort Facility
HONOLULU, HI 96820
Depart USPS Sort Facility
February 21, 2013
SALT LAKE CITY, UT 84199
Processed at USPS Origin Sort Facility
February 20, 2013, 6:07 pm
SALT LAKE CITY, UT 84199
Electronic Shipping Info Received
February 20, 2013
Accepted at USPS Origin Sort Facility
February 20, 2013, 4:52 pm
SALT LAKE CITY, UT 84116
Shipment Accepted
February 20, 2013, 3:18 pm
SALT LAKE CITY, UT 84199