Does a shaper replaee a router table?

[Wade Lippman]

I don't have anything. I sold my tablesaw that I built a router table into 6 months ago, so I am starting from scratch.

A 3hp router and a lift are $700 and I would still have to build the router table. A shaper is only $1,100; it is much more powerful and doesn't have that horrible whining noise. But would shaper completely replace a router table? I got by for years with just a router table and would like to stick with one tool. If a shaper won't do it, I will build a new router table.

[Stephen Cherry]

I don't have anything. I sold my tablesaw that I built a router table into 6 months ago, so I am starting from scratch.

A 3hp router and a lift are $700 and I would still have to build the router table. A shaper is only $1,100; it is much more powerful and doesn't have that horrible whining noise. But would shaper completely replace a router table? I got by for years with just a router table and would like to stick with one tool. If a shaper won't do it, I will build a new router table.

Wade, this is impossible to say without knowing what cutters you want to use. I will say that a shaper is better for everything that I can think of that you can get a shaper cutter for, but there are very few 20 dollar shaper cutters, and they don't make a 1/4 spiral upcut bit that fits on a 1 1/4 shaper spindle.

The point is, the cutter or profile is the first decision, the machine just needs to turn the cutter that you have chosen.

[Bob Wingard]

Shapers are meant to spin larger cutters at a slower speed ... routers are just the opposite ... they rely on high speed, coupled with smaller diameter cutters to obtain a nice, clean cut.

[Jeff Duncan]

May want to search this topic, the general router vs shaper topic may have been discussed once or twenty times before so there's a lot of good info out there already:D

For my money the answer is no, one does not replace the other.

good luck,
JeffD

[johnny means]

If I had to build a kitchen with nothing but a router table and maybe ten bits or so, I could do it. I couldn't do this with a shaper. The router table is much more versatile.

[Jim Neeley]

I don't have anything. I sold my tablesaw that I built a router table into 6 months ago, so I am starting from scratch.

A 3hp router and a lift are $700 and I would still have to build the router table. A shaper is only $1,100; it is much more powerful and doesn't have that horrible whining noise. But would shaper completely replace a router table? I got by for years with just a router table and would like to stick with one tool. If a shaper won't do it, I will build a new router table.

Wade,

The [real] 3hp induction-motored shaper is a lot quieter and has a lot more power than the [miracle of modern marketing] 3hp router. It also draws nearly twice the power and its heavy cast-iron base provides good stability in working.

The [miracle of modern marketing] "3hp" router screams like a banshee yet [at least my PC 7518 Speedmatic does a great job spinning 3-1/2" raised panel bits in oak without breaking a sweat.

IMO, the biggest weaknesses the router has are its very advantages: its small and loud but you can use it hand-held, bringing the cutter to the work rather than the work to the cutter. This is of particular advantage doing a roundover on the edge of a tabletop or workbench. Also a plunge router can be mounted in router skiis for suspended router cuts; many other jigs can be built to accomplish other tasks. After all, a router is just a compact, relatively high torqu motor capable of holding high-speed very sharp cutters. What you do with them is up to you! :-)

[Ray Newman]

Router or shaper?? see:


http://patwarner.com/router_or_shaper.html (http://patwarner.com/router_or_shaper.html)

[Rod Sheridan]

I've always owned a shaper, my router is an E.C. Emmerich cordless model, so you could say I don't own a router.

I have a tilting spindle, sliding table shaper (Hammer B3) and before that I had a fixed spindle machine.

My work is 99% in solid wood, most of my cutters are the $20 HSS knives for the Euro block cutter heads, superior finish in solid wood, very cost effective.

I have a few carbide cutters, lock mitre, insert rebate, a couple of grooving cutters.

The shaper is

- easy to setup
- has good independently adjustable fences
- quiet and powerful
- reversible spindle rotation for cutting with the grain, or part orientation
- uses a power feeder for improved precisison, safety and surface finish
- some can take router bits
- climb cut with a power feeder
- profile and dimension in one pass with an outboard fence and power feeder
- can be used for ripping thin strips with a power feeder
- can be used for sanding with a sanding drum if the shaper is capable of this.
- fantastic for cutting tenons.

In summary, this is one home shop that would never consider not having a shaper, and doesn't have a router................Regards, Rod.


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P.S. Here are some photographs of making a rail and stile door.

- grooving the rail, showing standard shaper hood/fence/hold downs.

- tenon hood and table on shaper (hold down clamp is missing in this photo

- cutting the tenon (the shaper isn't running, hold down clamp arm is visible at the bottom)

- completed tenon

- rail and stile door components

Watch this video, it's long yet it contains some great shaper applications. http://www.felderusa.com/us-us/video/the-complete-workshop.html

[Erik Loza]

For the one-man shop, they complement one another, IHMO.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Wade Lippman]

I've gotten opinions both ways. I guess what it comes down to is Warner's statement " Dados, mortises, and other blind inside excavations are not possible with shapers, nor are dovetails, a distinct advantage for the router table."

Has anyone tried a 1/4" router bit in a shaper with a router bit adapter? It they don't work well at 10,000 rpm I will build the router table and forget the shaper.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi. my previous shaper had a 10,000 RPM maximum speed and it ran router bits just fine..........Feed rate was low however.

I cut dovetails with a saw and chisel so I guess I don't miss the router.

There are many things a shaper does that a router can't do, watch the Felder video I linked to in my post...........Rod.

[Erik Loza]

I've gotten opinions both ways. I guess what it comes down to is Warner's statement " Dados, mortises, and other blind inside excavations are not possible with shapers, nor are dovetails, a distinct advantage for the router table."

Has anyone tried a 1/4" router bit in a shaper with a router bit adapter? It they don't work well at 10,000 rpm I will build the router table and forget the shaper.

Wade, I have used router bits in our combo machine shapers (they have interchangeable spindles). While the larger 1/2" profiling bits (panel raiser, et al) seem to work well enough at 10K rpm's, I personally doubt that you would be happy with trying a 1/4" bit at that speed. To be honest, you want both a router table and a shaper. My colleague, Sam, has the latest model electronic Minimax shaper in his shop but also a router table because, to be honest, it is a lot easier to just turn on the router table if you need to do a little flush-trim or whatever. No, a router table cannot do what a shaper can but considering that you can put together a great router table for $300 or less and that it would be 110V and takes up no space in the shop, it doesn't make any sense not to have one, regardless of whether or not you have the shaper. Just like bandsaws: Yeah, you could have a 24" monster but nobody complains about still having that little 14" machine in the corner. I hope this makes sense.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Peter Quinn]

The one thing above all others that really separates routers from shapers is that you can lift them. Yes, for the sake of this conversation let's remind ourselves that routers are portable and hand held, so you can own one, use it, stuff it back in a drawer, bobs your uncle, wood working accomplished! You dont have to choose. And you can build a simple router table out of scraps for under $50. Doesn't need a cast iron top and a $400 aluminum lift to spin a bit.

Does a shaper replace a router? No, I cannot lift my shaper for freehand work. Will a shaper replace a router table? Most definetly yes, assuming you have a freehand router handy.

I am fortunate enough to have both a nice router table and capable shapers. And I do things with my router table that I can't do on the shaper, but allow those things could easily be done with a freehand router and a jig/fixture. Anything that would require a table mounted router is IME better done on the shaper anyway.

So to the question router versus shaper I answer "yes".

[lowell holmes]

I have both. My shaper is a small old Rockwell.

I recently built a new raised panel entrance door. I can't imagine building that door with a router table.

The shaper is my choice for cope and stick cabinet doors as well.

For me, router table will not replace the shaper. Neither will the shaper replace the router table.

If your projects are going to be heavy projects, I think the shaper is desirable.

I will not be without my router mounted in a wing on my table saw. I don't think I can do pattern routing on the shaper.

Don't forget that our real object is to collect tools. :)

[glenn bradley]

Folks who love their shapers have almost as strong an opinion as folks who love their RAS. We are all different but, I would not want to house the number of shaper cutters/inserts to match the number of router profiles I have. When it comes to profiling a chair rail in one pass, a shaper is your weapon of choice. If you can take 3 or 4 passes, a router table will do it too. Shapers that reverse and tilt expand what a given profile can do but, there are tilting router table mechanisms as well if that is your thing.

If I had to have one of the $1000 router tables that have been appearing, I would lean toward a used shaper in a heartbeat; I could buy a lot of cutters with the money I would save. I probably have about $500 into my table but, the Milwaukee 5625 and Woodpecker PRL account for most of that. Now that Triton is offering the more refined above-the-table controls on their larger router, you can save $200 - $300 on a lift as one possible option. As usual, choices abound but, my shop real estate is finite :(.

[David Kumm]

No. If I could only have one it would either be a big shaper or a big router table. A big router table has more versatility than a <3 hp shaper. I have a shaper that will spin a router bit up to 23000 rpm and still use a small table with a PC 690 for small stuff. Unless you can get near 15000 rpm on a shaper it won't do a good job with small router bits. Small shaper cutters will be fine if you want to buy them. Dave

[Brian Brightwell]

Many good comments here and almost none of them wrong. I have both and like it that way. I like leaving one "setup" for one task and then being able to use the other for another task. I got along fine with a hand held router and a shaper for years. But both is better.

[Tai Fu]

A router lets you hold it in hand for engraving (with the proper guides of course) and more. You can put it under a table to make certain cuts. Get a shaper only if you want to make very heavy cuts with shaper bits... 10,000 RPM is way too slow for all but the largest router bits out there. Even with a shaper you will need routers for detailed work.

[Rick Potter]

I have both. A 1 1/2 HP Delta Shaper, and a router table with a PC 3HP motor. The shaper will work for most things, and I prefer it because of the cast iron, and the noise factor. That being said, if I were starting out with nothing, as you say, I would no doubt get the router table. I assume you are a hobbiest. Build or get a router table and leave the motor in it, you can always pick up another router off CL for handheld use. My favorite router is the Milwaukee. Mine has provision for above the table adjustment, and works almost as well as an expensive lift for most use.

You can always add a shaper later, if you need it.

About horsepower. I am a hobbiest, no production deadlines at all. 15 years ago I built my entire kitchen....raised panel red oak, using a 16 X 24" benchtop router table with no lift, no fancy fence, and a PC 690 1 1/2HP single speed router. I made the raised panels in three passes, everything else in two, and had zero problems doing it. My daughter is in the house now. As of last night the kitchen still looks fine.

Rick Potter

[Jeff Duncan]

I've gotten opinions both ways. I guess what it comes down to is Warner's statement " Dados, mortises, and other blind inside excavations are not possible with shapers, nor are dovetails, a distinct advantage for the router table."

Has anyone tried a 1/4" router bit in a shaper with a router bit adapter? It they don't work well at 10,000 rpm I will build the router table and forget the shaper.


A couple quick thoughts..... first a shaper can certainly do dado's, mortises...no, dovetails....better with a jig than a router table IMHO.

Second...a 1/4" roundover can be done with a small laminate trimmer, so not sure why that particular bit would be the deciding factor? FWIW I think 1/4" is pretty small on most shapers topping out at 8 - 10k rpm's. 1/2" round over and bigger you should be OK.

good luck,
JeffD

[Erik Christensen]

I have a 5hp shaper and no router table (but 3 routers) and if I had to only ever have one or the other I'd choose the shaper. I can run 1/4" & 1/2" router bits in the shaper and at 10k rpm with a low feed rate they do OK.

that said - I am still considering building a router table just for small freehand work. I will do freehand on the shaper for big stuff but for smaller pieces (like a table saw insert blank) the shaper just scare the c__p out of me. Lot of rotational momentum, lots of motor and if the bit catches I KNOW the motor is not going to stall - it going to do seriously exciting & potentially hurtful things. The same small piece work on my buddy's router table is much less stressful.

[Myk Rian]

A lot of replies here, but I haven't seen where you state what you intend to do with the machine.
That would go a long way toward a helpful answer.