Jesssem, Incra or Woodpeckers

[Rich Riddle]

I am trying to decide between all those systems for a router table. I like the Incra most (for the LS system) but really like a solid phenolic top. Which did you choose and why?

[Chris Rosenberger]

I made my own router table top from with 2 layers of 3/4" MDF. Cost was about $55 including a miter gauge track.
I then added an Incra LS fence system.

[Rich Riddle]

The fence, top, and lift system are the things that most interest me. The LS fence system seems the best in my inexperienced opinion, but trying to decide between the lift systems like the PRL and Mast-R-Lift prove difficult. There seem to be no solid phenolic tops made well for the LS fence system.

[Peter Kuhlman]

The advantage of making your own top is you get to choose the size. I started with a full blown Woodpecker/Incra setup with a 24" x 32" top. Found I really like a larger surface for my usage. Mine now is made from 1" phenolic ply on a torsion box type support. It is 32" by 48". Am using an Incra positioner with a Woodpecker lift. No complaints at all.

Like Chris says, layered MDF works great. You really don't have to apply a laminate surface to it. You can just coat all edges and sides with a few applications of Shellac or Zinser. It really toughens it up so denting and wear from sliding stuff across it are a non issue.

[Chris Rosenberger]

The fence, top, and lift system are the things that most interest me. The LS fence system seems the best in my inexperienced opinion, but trying to decide between the lift systems like the PRL and Mast-R-Lift prove difficult. There seem to be no solid phenolic tops made well for the LS fence system.

I should have added that I have the Woodpecker Quicklifts on a couple of router tables. I bought a Woodpecker PRL lift a couple of years ago after having some problem with one of the Quicklifts. I got the problem figured out, so the PRL is still in the box. Something I am not sure I like about the PRL is the micro adjust wheel. The Quicklifts use a crank for micro adjustments, it is quick & easy to use.
From the limited time I played with the PRL after getting it was that the micro adjust wheel was not as easy or as fast to use as the crank. Also the Quicklift has unlimited adjustment range with the crank. The PRL has a very limited adjustment range with the wheel.

[Charlie MacGregor]

I'm where you are Rich. Working through the trade-offs and such. I'd decided on the Incra with the Jessem/Incra lift but now wondering which has the better waste extraction.

[Bill Wyko]

I've been an Incra user for around 20 years. I have them on table saws, router tables Drill presses and probably other tools I can't think of right now. The flip actuation for accurate stops are hands down more accurate than anything out there. I modified a Jessem Miter slide to attach to one of my router table Incra fences and it's the bees knees. I'm using it to build a wine cellar that will have over 8000 dovetail joints, I'm about 3000 into it right now and the first one fits as well as the last one I cut.

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

...The PRL has a very limited adjustment range with the wheel.

This has been corrected some time ago - the micro adjust wheel is infinite. Also, the Woodpecker Sidewinder is the PRL II with the same crank as the older Quicklift - you get the same lifting attributes of the Quicklift with the added beefiness of the PRL II.

FYI - you can purchase an upgrade kit for your PRL to add the crank.

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

...but trying to decide between the lift systems like the PRL and Mast-R-Lift prove difficult...

Rich,
If you do not have a big 3hp router yet, but want to get one in the future, the Mast R Lift II is the easiest way to go. It will accommodate just about any router on the market without the need for adapters - you will have to purchase different pads for different routers with the PRL II.

However, the PRL II is, IMO, a little beefier than the Mastrlift II. (To be clear, I own the Mastrlift II [and the original PRL - the best] and have used and done maintenance on the PRL II.) The reason I say the PRL II is beefier is because the carriage is solid (not split like the Mastrlift II) and the guide posts are considerably larger. If you plan on using very large router bits in a 3hp motor, this may be the way to go. As stated before, the clamping pads are said by some to be a drawback, but they allow the PRL II to be more solid. Also look at the Sidewinder - it is the PRL II with a crank.

As an owner of the Mastrlift II, I can also recommend it. It is definitely lighter in weight but that may only be anecdotal evidence of what I am not sure. It is silky smooth to raise and lower and the carriage lock is second to none.

The only thing I do not like about it is how it obtains one of its unique features: the ability to fit most routers (which is nice). To do this, the clamping pads use an adjustable pattern - nice. However, the carriage is split in order to be able to tighten it around the motor. The carriage is the clamp. If you over-tighten the carriage, it will start to bind up on the guide posts. I had the shim two of the clamping pads with masking tape in order for this not to happen. Truth be told, I have not heard of this from anyone else.

Take a look at both Jessem's and Woodpeckers' websites - they should help you decide. You will be happy with either.

[Michael Heffernan]

I got an Incra offset table, LS-17 Supersystem and their steel base frame. I wound up building cabinets and dust box that fit within the steel frame.
Here is my original post of my build:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?118565-Router-Table-Cabinet-for-Incra-LS-Positioner&highlight=
Originally I used Incra's caster set, but the table with cabinets was too heavy for them an they failed. Wound up getting a Rockler All-terrain mobile base for it. Works like a dream.
Originally I had an Incra Magnalock plate and a Triton 2-1/4 hp router in it. Worked very well. Easy to adjust the height.
Recently, I got a great deal on a new PC7518 from a fellow Creeker (thanks Steve C!) and purchased the Incra branded Jessem Mast-R-Lift II from Tom Waltz of Carbide Processors. I researched both the Jessem and the Woodpeckers PRL-V2. I didn't like the PRL-V2 because you needed to use the quick lift handle to raise and lower the router to 'approximate height', then use the micro adjust wheel to dial in your bit height, then reach for an allen wrench to lock the carriage. Too many steps IMO. With the Mast-R-Lift, one winder handle. Use the handle to unlock the carriage, raise/lower the bit, lock the carriage. Easy Peasy.
The PC7518 and Mast-R-Lift work like a charm. I needed more hp for some of the profiling I do.
When I installed the router in the lift, I did not experience the binding that Cyprus had. I snugged the router housing in the clamp pads and it seems to be fine. The router raises and lowers just fine.
FYI, I also installed a Wixey WR525 digital height readout, but am having problems with it. The unit cycles on by itself whenever I use the router table. It also loses its height setting, making it impossible to raise the height incrementally for heavy cuts. I emailed them and Barry Wixey responded that this is an issue with some setups. Electromagnetic interference is supposedly causing the problems. He's sending me some plastic washers and screws to isolate the gauge from the router. Hope it helps.
I love the Incra LS-17 SuperSystem. Being able micro adjust to 1/1000 of an inch. Dust collection through the WonderFence, incorporated with my below the table dust box is excellent for most cuts. The only thing I think is missing from the LS fence system is hold-downs, clamping the fence to the table. If you use feather boards on the fence, they can flex the fence up, as it is held down by the arm bolted to the rear of the table. If I need to keep stock tight to the table for a rout, I use a couple of quick clamps to hold the fence down.
Sorry for the digressions. It's a great system. The MDF laminated table top is well made and has survived for four years so far in my shop, and I use it almost daily.

[Grant Wilkinson]

I have the Jessem, an older version of the Mast R Lift Excel. I bought the whole package, but replaced the Jessem fence with an Incra model. The lift works OK, but the phenolic top did/does not. My first one sagged and was replaced by Jessem. They also included new front to back braces to better support the top. The replacement sagged, too. This one was not replaced. I can't say if this is a failure of the concept, but I believe that the phenolic top is too thin to handle the weight of the router and the lift.

[Charlie MacGregor]

Can anyone give an opinion on the dust/chip capturing abilities of these three manufacturers fences? -Thanks

Edit: I've never used a router table much less one of these top three but these are my takes:

The Jessem is my least favorite fence but they seem to have put more effort into dust extraction with both above and below table collection points on the Excel II.
The Incra fence, I like the most but they seem to have put the least effort into dust extraction.
The Woodpeckers, I like the fence mount and they seem to have a competent single point dust extraction design.

or... am I putting too much emphasis on dust extraction?
or...do none of them work effectively?

[Kelly Colin Mark]

Charlie,

If you're looking at Jessem, you may want to look at their Mast-R-Lift II Excel (I think that's what they call it). It has a dust collection port at the bottom of the plate. From there is a small chamber which opens right under where the insert would go, so it should catch a lot of the dust under the table. I have the earlier version of this and it seemed to work pretty well. I also have their regular Mast-R-Lift II and it does NOT have this port, to my dismay. This may be due to space constraints - the Mast-R-Lift II seems to just be the insert plate, whereas the Excel II seems (not really positive though) to include lift, plate, crank and table - so it's also a lot more expensive.

[Rich Riddle]

Michael, I have a Porter Cable 7518 router. I am leaning toward the Incra LS-17 Super System with some version of a Mast-R-Lift (either Jessem or Incra). The PRL seems to get too many mixed reviews. Now it's down to the top and cabinet. You made a wonderful router cabinet.

[Alan Bienlein]

I researched both the Jessem and the Woodpeckers PRL-V2. I didn't like the PRL-V2 because you needed to use the quick lift handle to raise and lower the router to 'approximate height', then use the micro adjust wheel to dial in your bit height, then reach for an allen wrench to lock the carriage. Too many steps IMO. With the Mast-R-Lift, one winder handle. Use the handle to unlock the carriage, raise/lower the bit, lock the carriage. Easy Peasy.

I have the woodpeckers PRL-V2 and am wondering what your talking about. I use the quick wrench to raise the router to change the bit and lower to the height I want and then fine tune with the thumb wheel. Thats it! There isn't any need to get an allen wrench to lock the carrige. Never had to in the three years I've had mine.

[William C Rogers]

Rich

My approach has always been functional and taking some risk trying to be cost effective. For my fence system I have the Incra LS-25. Very satisfied with this fence. The dust extraction on the fence is quite good. The only thing I would do different next time is get the LS-17. I haven't needed to use the 25 inch capability to date. The router I use is a 2 1/4 hp Bosch 1617. Again i have not needed a 3 1/2 hp router as I don't make any raised panel using the 3 in diameter bits where the advantage would be fewer passes using a 3 1/2 hp router. I can do everything with the 2 1/4, just may need more passes. For my table I came across a wide cabinet base at Lowes that had damage for $20. I had a 2 inch thick 30 inch wide and 50 inch long hardwood top from some 30 years ago. I also made a box under the router opening that connects to my dust collector. Similar to the Dust Bucket Rockler sells. Also wanting a phenolic top I bought the Jointech the guy is selling on Ebay I think with shipping it ran $70. The seller states that these have minor imperfections and may not be perfectly flat. I did not check flatness in the free state, but when installed it was within 0.001. There was minor imperfection on the back corner. There is risk involved with the top as I don't know how much these tops vary and I may have gotten lucky. Looking at Michael's table mine is turned 90 degrees and has and extension on the back to support the Incra. Since the phenolic is a full 3/4 I add 3/4 pre-finished plywood to each side and shimmed it up to about 0.003 lower than the phenolic as kind of infeed-outfeed extensions. I too like a big table and this does become a big table. Since I am using a 2 1/4 hp router I went with the Jessem phenolic master lift. Would have bought the aluminum one if the router was in the 3 1/2 hp class. I am very satisfied with functionality and love the Incra system.

Bill

[Guy Belleman]

I am really satisfied with my Triton router (with built in lift) in a Woodpeckers plate. I built the table and added a fence. The Triton router runs so smooth and is quiet, yet does everything I want it to do.

[Michael Heffernan]

Alan,
There is a carriage brake on the lift that should be locked down before use. It is accessed with an Allen wrench just behind the micro adjust wheel.
http://www.woodpeck.com/prlv2.html
I was just a the Woodworking Show in Somerset NJ and took a look at the system. The guy at the booth said that you should lock the carriage to avoid any wandering of the height under load.
Same is true for the Mast-r-lift II only that there is one winder handle that raises/lowers and locks the carriage.



I have the woodpeckers PRL-V2 and am wondering what your talking about. I use the quick wrench to raise the router to change the bit and lower to the height I want and then fine tune with the thumb wheel. Thats it! There isn't any need to get an allen wrench to lock the carrige. Never had to in the three years I've had mine.

[Phil Thien]

The one thing I'll note is to watch how the rings install in the plate or top. I have an older Jessem lift, and the things use a spanner wrench to twist into the hole. It is quick, easy, and offers great alignment.

I would NOT want a unit that requires removing screws. That would be way too tedious.

[Mike Goetzke]

I'm almost done with construction of my new router table. I had a PRL-V2 w/Milwaukee 5625, LS-17, and shop made top in the wing of my TS. I have gone to a TS-less shop so the top was sold with my saw. My PRL-V2 was one of the first off the line. Originally it had a limit on the thumbwheel range so I upgraded it to a sidewinder. In this mess I also built kitchen cabinets for our house and used a dedicated jig for DT's since I really didn't like the Incra system that much. I loved it for the fence but not for joint making. So on my new table I did something different (this is a hobby so I'm one that is constantly changing things around). I sold the LS-17 and bought the Woodpeck Superfence with micro adjustment and found they had one of their phenolic 27x43 tables in the scratch/dent for <$200. This is their table that has the long side in front and the router opening set back a bit. On the lift, Woodpeck has now redesigned the thumbwheel mechanism to not had a limited range and they sent me the parts to modify my lift. I have used the table a few times and so far so good - no regrets selling the LS-17. Couple things I like better are I can use it like a pivot fence to quickly adjust it to top bearing bit and I like the massive area on the top. I would highly recommend the PRL-V2 with the 5625 router.





Mike

[Alan Lightstone]

Alan,
There is a carriage brake on the lift that should be locked down before use. It is accessed with an Allen wrench just behind the micro adjust wheel.
http://www.woodpeck.com/prlv2.html
I was just a the Woodworking Show in Somerset NJ and took a look at the system. The guy at the booth said that you should lock the carriage to avoid any wandering of the height under load.
Same is true for the Mast-r-lift II only that there is one winder handle that raises/lowers and locks the carriage.

I have certainly had mine wander. Now I use the Allen screw/carraige brake, for repetitive passes on pieces I need identical.

I love my Incra LS-17. I think I would choose another lift besides the Woodpeckers. The height adjustment system just annoys me. If you could get the Sidewinder to work for you it would be better, but otherwise I just find the gross adjustment with the wrench then the fine adjustment with a million turns to be annoying.

I have the PC 7518 also. Total workhorse.

[Steve Peterson]

The one thing I'll note is to watch how the rings install in the plate or top. I have an older Jessem lift, and the things use a spanner wrench to twist into the hole. It is quick, easy, and offers great alignment.

I would NOT want a unit that requires removing screws. That would be way too tedious.

I have the Incra PRL-V2 and really like it. Most of the hardware is identical to the Woodpecker version, but they use metal plates and 4 rare earth magnets to lock them in place. The only tool needed is a nail or small screwdriver to pry up a corner.

Steve

[Phil Thien]

I have the Incra PRL-V2 and really like it. Most of the hardware is identical to the Woodpecker version, but they use metal plates and 4 rare earth magnets to lock them in place. The only tool needed is a nail or small screwdriver to pry up a corner.

Steve

Yep I've seen the one held by magnets, very nice system.

Anything to make getting that insert in/out quickly is a time saver. The ones with multiple screws would be a pain, having already had a system that allow quicker operation.

[Dick Mahany]

I have the PRLV2 early version that was rebranded with the old Woodcraft "Pinnacle" name. Mine was built before they modified the design to accept the Milwaukee 5625, so I needed to remove the Milwaukee integral adjustment screw and custom shim it to fit the PC bore. Thankfully, both of those inconvienences have now been designed out.

My unit has a travel limit restriction which I find very annoying but it looks like there may an answer to it from an ealier post that I need to look into.

I have a full set of the aluminum plates that work fine, but I really like the idea of the incra rare earth magnet design.

In all the woodpecker unit is an excellent unit, although I do not have direct experience for competitive comparison as I upgraded from a fixed plate design.

[Steve Kohn]

I'm also considering getting a lift so have been following this thread very closely. But now I'm confused. Is the Incra based on the Woodpecker PRL-V2 design or on the Jessem? This thread seems to indicate both.

[Charlie MacGregor]

Incra has both Jessem and Woodpecker with the mag lock rings.

[Steve Kohn]

Thanks for the answer. I'll need to look a lot more closely at the Incra website.

[Jim O'Dell]

I also have a home built RT with the 25" Incra LS fence and the original PRL. With both being the anodized gold, it looks really sexy on the basically green top. (Baylor colors, of course!) If you want the solid Phenolic top, can't you buy the material and make your own top? That way you could make it the size you want. None of the pre-made tops were large enough for the 25" system. Since I wanted the 25" unit, I wanted to be able to use the full capacity if I ever had a need to. So my table is 53" long X 36" wide. 258619 Wish the aluminum inserts were still made. I need to look at the phenolic ones. I'm sure they would work fine. Also building your own, you can customize the cabinet to have all the amenities you want. 258620 The two drawers on the right hold the router bits. The top holds the LS Positioner templates and owner's manual. The bottom is a dummy door. Hope this gives you some ideas to think about. Jim.

[Bill Wyko]

Call Incra & ask for Perry, he's a great guy & knows everything there is to know when it comes to their lifts. I have 4 lifts, a Rockler, Jessem, woodpecker and Incra, all use PC 3.5hp routers. The first 3 are older models but the incra is definitely my favorite.