Two Damaged G0609's

[Brett Bobo]

It's been an unfortunate last couple of weeks as I'm now at a crossroads with a second machine that is also damaged and with an ultimatum of sorts from Grizzly. As mentioned originally, I full expected Grizzly to handle the damaged parts without hesitation, which was the case, until the replacement machine arrived in as bad of shape as the original machine.

The first machine arrived with gouges and scratches on the infeed table, outfeed table, and the fence, which comprised the majority of the damage. The dust port and the pedestal switch were both dented. The back of the fence bracket was broken. The pork chop was chipped and dented. Due to the number of damaged items, the resolution was to send a replacement machine. Upon that determination of sending a new machine, on three separate follow up phone calls that I made to customer service, I repeatedly asked that the replacement machine be thoroughly inspected for any damage, which I was assured would be the case.

Fast forward to the delivery of the replacement machine. Upon removing the cosmoline from the tables, I once again found damage to both tables and worse off than the original machine. In this case, there is a significant gouge on the far end of the outfeed table, several small gouges on the infeed table, multiple scratches on both tables, and blotchy staining along the length of the infeed table. As before, these photos were documented through an email to the orders/freight department. In several conversations with customer service, I was assured that the machine went through an inspection process. It's my opinion that an inspection was never performed of the actual machine itself, maybe the exterior of the crate; otherwise, these issues would have been very apparent and flagged.

The final response I received from Grizzly, which was from the freight supervisor, was that the damage would have occurred during normal use and implied that I was possibly the cause for the damage during the unpackaging process. I was shocked by her response and was offended that I was being blamed as the culprit for the damage. I can agree that minor scratches will occur along the lengths of the tables over time from running material over them but to suggest that staining and gouges will also occur is simply not true. Also, it's a joke to qualify the condition of a machine just because that is what will happen over time. A new machine should come in new condition, meaning without defects. Regarding the implication of me possibly causing the damage, Grizzly was just finding every way possible to excuse the damage and put the responsibility on me.

Therefore, her resolution was to either ship back the machine for a full refund with no replacement machine or provide me with a Grizzly credit of 10% of the purchase price, $200. I found neither of these options, which were the only options, acceptable. The options provided leave me in a lose-lose situation. Obviously, I want the machine and never expected a refusal to ship a third machine, which was my original request when I reported the damage on the replacement machine. As far as a Grizzly credit of $200, which is not even a credit back to my original purchase, we all know that the true cost to Grizzly is far less than $200. There's no significant concession with a credit and frankly, I don't have the confidence that similar circumstances won't occur on a future order to utilize the credit.

It appeared to be a story of let's cut our losses and just move forward, not what can be done to rectify this situation and make it right. This is my fifth Grizzly machine and aside from a dented rail on a table saw, which was handled without hesitation, all of the machines prior to this one have been of the quality I've come to expect from Grizzly, along with excellent customer service.

Attached are a couple of photos from the replacement machine...

What are your thoughts? What are your expectations on a reasonable solution under these circumstances?

[Joe Hillmann]

Based on the photos you put up it, it looks to me like you are expecting too much. That isn't damage. At most I would call it a visual blemish. I would assume that at this point Grizzly has paid for shipping twice and is or is close to losing money. At a certain pint when you have a customer who you know won't be satasfied with anything you send them you offer them a full refund and be done with them. At least that is what I do when I have a customer who is overly critical.

I am not trying to offend you but based on the pictures you put up, that is how I see it.

[David Weaver]

I personally wouldn't view that as much of a problem, either. if they are giving you $200 of credit, i'd take it and use it to buy accessories or finish supplies or something through them.

I wouldn't be excited about the big scratch, but I wouldn't be bothered by it that long, either. It would take a lot less effort to take the $200 and let the scratch grow on you, that would be my point of view. Life is short.

[Greg Portland]

The tables I've unwrapped on various tools has paper over the cosmoline. Was there damage to the paper? This would point to manufacturing/QC versus a shipping issue.

I agree that those are visual blemishes. You are paying for a flat table... not a shiny one. Polishing it up is fairly easy with some fine sandpaper. Have you measured the tables with a straightedge?

[Larry Browning]

I may be in the minority here, but I am leaning to the Grizzly side on this one. From your description and photos of the "damage" it all looks cosmetic to me. That gouge looks more like a smudge to me. Is this damage going to effect the operation of the machine in any way? It sure doesn't look like it to me. It seems to me that Grizzly has bent over backwards trying to please you and the likelihood of you being dissatisfied with a third machine is pretty high. I'd take the $200 credit and be happy about it. Well, they wouldn't have offered it to me, because I wouldn't have even complained. This is manufacturing machinery we are talking about here, not a new business suit. Function before form.
I won't be surprised if most here will be on your side, but I just don't see what the problem is.

Just my 2 cents.

[eugene thomas]

I am looking at pics on my phone but think would take credit and be making sawdust with that machean.

[Brian Kent]

I think I would say, "Well that sucks to have a scratch on a new machine", not worry at all about stains, take the $200 credit and cover it up with sawdust. Happy flattening!

[Brett Bobo]

I do agree that my concerns on the tables are cosmetic, likely including the spot at the end of the outfeed table even though it'll catch a fingernail. This is even something I've mentioned to customer service. It's difficult to get a good perspective with the flash of a camera and the shadows from the lighting. As mentioned originally, I never have complained on previous orders other than the one issue that affected the function of the machine, i.e. the dented table saw rail.

Considering this was the replacement machine, I figured I'd get a machine without any noticeable apologies, including finish, since I already had trouble with a damaged original. My issue never was money-driven or to receive compensation. Maybe I'm in the minority here but given the circumstances, I wouldn't say I'm being overly critical. If the replacement machine was the first machine I received, it probably would have been a non-issue. There was just an expectation set on the replacement machine since I requested several times to customer service to inspect the replacement machine prior to shipping for any possible damage. I just figured this one would have been flagged.

Like many of us here, I don't make major tool purchases all that often and when I do, I'd like for the tool to be in the best shape possible.

Greg,
You're right, there was wax paper over the cosmoline and there was no damage to the wax paper. That's why it appears to be a QC issue and not a shipping issue.

[Carroll Courtney]

If your new shiny BMW had a scratch on it at the dealership would you except it??Not me,can't afford BMW----LOL Carroll

[Jeff Duncan]

I have to agree with the others, you bought a jointer that's sold based on price/value over quality, and at least from what I can see in the photo's does not look like damage to me. A scratch and some staining is certainly not perfect, but also does not hamper your use of the machine in any way.

Second if I'm reading correctly I think it's pretty unfair to accuse them of lying about inspecting the machine. They may well have inspected the machine before it went out and not seen any of the damage as it sounds like you didn't see it either until you removed all the cosmoline? I would not expect them to remove the cosmoline to inspect the machine for damage. If it's under then it's from the factory, not done in shipping....ie damage.

You bought the machine and as such if your not happy with it I think your entitled to a full refund. However I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to send machine after machine until you get one that's "perfect". There's a reason some manufacturers are so much cheaper than others. Sometimes it's confined to what's on the inside, but unfortunately sometimes it's not. I know that's not what you wanted to hear....but you asked for opinions and that's mine:o If it were me, I'd take the $200 credit and order an insert head for the jointer and get to making some shavings:D

good luck,
JeffD

[Todd Burch]

Both options are good options. For a full refund, you don't have to compromise on less than showroom-floor perfect. ("perfect" is relative here), but you also don't get the Grizzly that you wanted. For the credit, you suck it up and get over it and buy something else.

My once perfect Powermatic tablesaw top has gathered a lot of character over the years, ranging from guests in the shop setting cold soda cans on it sweating, to me, sliding a 250 lb chunk of wood across it, with a sheetrock screw between the wood and cast iron top, leaving a pretty decent groove in the cast iron. (Now, that one really ticked me off - and it was my fault).

So, I got over it. 9 years later, I barely notice it and would have to look for it.

Todd

[Andrew Kertesz]

If you're truly not happy with the machine send it back for a full refund and spend your money somewhere else. In the end you are the one that needs to be satisfied with your purchase. Can you find a comparable machine in the same price range including shipping?

[Brett Bobo]

Second if I'm reading correctly I think it's pretty unfair to accuse them of lying about inspecting the machine. They may well have inspected the machine before it went out and not seen any of the damage as it sounds like you didn't see it either until you removed all the cosmoline? I would not expect them to remove the cosmoline to inspect the machine for damage. If it's under then it's from the factory, not done in shipping....ie damage.

Jeff,
To clarify, the machine was likely to have had a once-over but it's my opinion that the tables specifically were not inspected prior to shipping. It sounds like this is reinforced by your point. I requested an inspection of the tables on the phone calls to customer service and was assured this would be done. If removing the cosmoline is not typically done or only when a customer requests it be done, I don't see how the QC process can assure no damaged machines are being shipped to customers. It seems equally unfair to accuse me of causing the damage during unpackaging.

You're right, a spiral cutterhead is probably calling my name as I can't think of anything else to use the credit on in the near future.

[C Scott McDonald]

The outfeed gouge would be pretty tough for me. The other stuff isnt an issue.

[Steve Milito]

The outfeed gouge would be pretty tough for me. The other stuff isnt an issue.

I'd need to see the outfeed gouge in person before rendering an opinion either way.
The rest of it isn't an issue.

[Gary Herrmann]

Your purchase, your decision. No need to justify yourself.

[John C Bush]

Hi Brett,
Sorry for your frustration, Feels like the first door ding on the '67 'Stang's new paint job. The G0609 is a great machine and the blemishes are minor and will be quickly out of site and mind with a bit of sawdust sprinkled on top. I would ask Pappa Griz if he would consider an exchange for the spiral head! It's a nice upgrade and worth a try.

I tried to send you pics of the mobile bases I made for mine but couldn't make it happen via SMC--PM's. I could try email or text. Let me know. JCB.

[Jim Barrett]

If you are unhappy send it back...otherwise you'll be kicking yourself every time you look at it...do what you think is best for YOU!! Easy to say forget about it when it is someone else's money!!

Jim

[Ronald Blue]

If they weren't willing to offer anything you have a legitimate beef. I would take the $200 and be tickled to death. If that doesn't work for you then send it back for a refund. Did you run an indicator over the scratch? You can feel a couple thousandths with a finger nail. I don't blame you for wanting perfect, but a $200 discount would make me happier because I would still have a new machine with a warranty. Just my .02.

[Richard Coers]

Send it back Brett. The way machines can arrive now, the loss or lack of a local machine supplier is a really big deal.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Brett,

Sorry you're frustrated. I do have to agree with the others though- these are pretty minor aesthetic issues. $200 is a pretty darn generous offer from Grizzly. My jointer/planer machine had blemishes like that within a few months of using it. None of them have any impact whatsoever on performance, and it didn't take me abusing the machine to cause them. End of the day, just remember that this is a tool. A BMW is half tool, half looks. Not a fair comparison. If it's a working tool, doing its job, it will show signs of use.

Here's another thing to consider. The outcome you expect is a third, spotless machine. You've already had two machines show up that didn't meet your expectations. And you also have Grizzly basically telling you that their expectations are not as high as yours. These things should lead you to question whether a third machine will meet your expectations either. And what a hassle it would be to take delivery of and return a third machine. At that point, Grizzly would probably be warranted to ban you from buying anything else from them in the future.

If you look at the blemishes and they drive you nuts, take them up on their offer and return it for a full refund. Buy a machine from somebody else. If you can't buy a similar machine from somebody else at the same price (or at a price that you're willing to accept), then you have your answer: you are buying a bargain machine, so you shouldn't expect perfection.

I can tell you that if I were you, I'd take the $200 and laugh my way to the bank. But as others have said, only you need to be happy with the machine. If you aren't happy with it, send it back for a refund. But it really is unreasonable for you to expect them to send you a third machine and take that big of a loss for something this minor.

Sorry if that sounds harsh.

[David Dobbs]

I would send it back!!

Your not going to be happy.

Just send it back!!

[Mike Goetzke]

I too have several Gizzly tools in the shop. I would not like the marks in the top either. Once on my fairly new Uni I caught my daughter cutting something on it with a razor. By the time I caught her there were about 4 marks. I used a cast top conditiong called I think Dave's Dirty Dozen and to my disbelief the marks were gone. Maybe call Griz and see if they will allow you to condition the top before deciding to return it. BTW - I used this method to treat all of my new Gris cast top tools before I used them.

Mike

[ed vitanovec]

I do understand your concerns with a new investment, would like everything to be just right. I think the scratches will not affect the performance of the machine and if you can accept them, take the $200 and buy something....you can get a shelix head for $475.

[Denny Rice]

I feel your pain. I mean you drop your hard earned cash on something as expensive as this, you want perfection when it hits your doorstep. I am like a lot of guys here though , I could live with the blemishes on the table but the deep gouge is something totally different. Its bad enough to try to keep the rust off a cast iron table when its perfect, but when there is a gouge cut into the tabletop that is "suppose" to be perfectly smooth rust will find its way into the gouge and IMHO harder to remove. I've been on both sides of the fence. Not long ago I purchased a 200 and something dollar router lift from Amazon.com, when it arrived by UPS the box looked like it had been sent into the war zon in Afganistan before it made it to my doorstep. The lift and been dropped and there was a deep scratch (probably cosmetic) but still I wanted "new". Unlike your dealings with Grizzly's CS dept, mine at Amazon.com were totally different. Amazon tried to make it right the first time, but they were sold out of the lift at that time I called, they offered 20% back to me if I wanted to keep the lift or wait a couple of days since they were getting new stock in soon. I waited about 6 days and noticed on their website they had 6 more in stock, called CS at Amazon they sent me a brand new lift, undamaged in the box and shipped it to me overnight free of charge. Amazon's CS rocks in my opinoin. I also have a planner and jointer, both made by Grizzly they were both shipped very professionally and both machines arrived without a scratch. Like a lot of guys here you have to decide what you can and cannot live with, but remember there are other manufacturers out there that make these machines, not only Grizzly. I hate to say this but a CS dept can make or break a deal for me, I want to feel like my business is important to any company I spend my hard earned money with. JMHO

[David Kumm]

Did either machine have flat tables and fences? While I wouldn't be happy with the scratch, I would not expect perfection from a less expensive 12" jointer either. If you get one where the tables are less than .004 off and the fence is flat in both directions you should keep it. You could get the most beautiful jointer in the world and if the tables aren't ground well- and many aren't- you will fight it forever. Dave

[Keith Outten]

Are you really classifying something that is 0.002" deep a gouge?
Less than half the diameter of a human hair on a woodworking machine is non-existant IMO.

Send the machine back, I'm sure you can get a near flawless surface from another company for twice the money :)
.

[John Schweikert]

I think the issues here amount to expectations of cosmetics and also hyperbole of observations. When I buy a tool, my concerns are whether the manufacturing of the product was up to high standards of squareness and the quality and squareness of cut that results when using the tool. And comparing woodworking tools to cars is silly, no correlation. No offense to BMW owners, but I'll take a Toyota any day over a BMW! Maybe a Felder is a "BMW design" of a tool, but Grizzly tools are not Felders, Grizzly tools are good bang for buck. I have 3 of their tools. Are they perfect, probably not. Do they give me the result I want, yes!

I find it quite odd just how many threads pop up where people use forums as public outcries of product dissatisfaction. Work it out with the company and be done with it. Use the tool or don't. Both machines received obviously worked to the standard they are intended. The issue is simply wanting a blemish free, very large and heavy tool made of cast and ground iron, shipped from overseas to your doorstep.

The word gouge used here reminds me of how news orgs mis-use the word "skyrocket" in relation to un-newsworthy increases in prices or something else.

[Brett Bobo]

Are you really classifying something that is 0.002" deep a gouge?
Less than half the diameter of a human hair on a woodworking machine is non-existant IMO.

Send the machine back, I'm sure you can get a near flawless surface from another company for twice the money :)
.

Yes, Keith, a gouge. It has depth so it's more than just a superficial scratch. I never specified it had a depth of 0.002", I was only trying to give an indication that it can easily be felt by a fingernail. I don't know why we're getting into semantics here and arguing over what qualifies as a scratch, gouge, "smudge", "blemish", etc.

It's interesting that of the negative responses, the consensus is to qualify the machine with the imperfections because it's par for the course with the price point of a Grizzly machine. Given that the specifications on this machine clearly indicate "precision ground cast iron table", it's not an unreasonable expectation for the tables to be smooth and flat, which what I interpret that to mean by definition.

[John TenEyck]

Most of my machines now have more character to them than all of that stuff combined. But I bought them used and what they didn't come with them I've added over the years. So Grizzly just pre-aged your machine for you. But what would really torque me off is the response from CS that suggested you might have damaged the machine. There is no way that would sit well with me, and clearly it has not with you either. The offer to take the machine back for a full refund or give you a $200 credit is fair, IMO, but I'd send it back just because of how CS mistreated you. I'd also send their president an e-mail or call him up to tell him how you were treated.

And to the person who would take a Toyota any day over a BMW, well, I guess you've never driven one. Many people aspire to own a BMW; far fewer a Toyota.

John

[mreza Salav]

I can understand the frustration, but what do you expect to get from this forum? I sincerely don't know what you are asking here. If it isn't only for venting I don't think people can help you here with the situation. Either you can live with the machine and the credit given to you by Grizzly or simply send them back for a full refund. I'm not saying it's Ok to have a scratch or gouge on a machine but honestly they are offering you a full refund which IMO is a pretty reasonable/generous offer. You can assume that's the level of QC they have and if you are not happy with the products the company is offering at that price point you can send the machines back (I suppose at their cost).
Whatever decision you make I hope it works out for you.

[Jeff Monson]

I'd be inclined to live with the scratch and the credit. It sucks to have a new machine with a cosmetic flaw, but that is short lived anyway. Enjoy your new machine, the blemish will be less important to you once you run a few board through it.

[Mel Fulks]

As an engineer you understand that the product quality is rooted in the specs and materials. So I'm surprised that with your ability and willingness to adjust a machine that you made that purchase .Only an old machine is going to meet your standards. You have a couple of ways to proceed ,I don't think another one is in the specs. Good luck.

[John M Wilson]

It's interesting that of the negative responses, the consensus is to qualify the machine with the imperfections because it's par for the course with the price point of a Grizzly machine. Given that the specifications on this machine clearly indicate "precision ground cast iron table", it's not an unreasonable expectation for the tables to be smooth and flat, which what I interpret that to mean by definition.

Brett, I think what may be going on here is represents the diversity of folks who are on this forum.

In one camp, you have the folks who peruse the "ding and dent" aisle of the store, and would jump at the chance to knock $200 off a machine for what appears (to them) to be a cosmetic flaw with little to no effect on the performance of the machine.

In the other camp, you have the folks who have saved long and hard for a piece of equipment that they have been researching for months, and they expect the machine to be "perfect" (to them) when they get it.

Once you enter this realm, facts (such as whether the scratch is 0.002" deep or 0.000002") become less relevant and perceptions much more relevant. You are not going to get a consensus out of this bunch -- we all have our own perceptions of what we want, and these quickly become convictions, not easily overturned.

The outcome you wanted: a 3rd machine, perfect (to you), does not appear to be available. Only you can decide which of the two offers that are on the table is best for you. The rest of us have opinions, but we are not the ones who will be using the machine. Once we have gotten into the land of opinions, only your opinion matters.

Good luck with your decision...

[Chris Rosenberger]

[QUOTE=It's interesting that of the negative responses, the consensus is to qualify the machine with the imperfections because it's par for the course with the price point of a Grizzly machine. Given that the specifications on this machine clearly indicate "precision ground cast iron table", it's not an unreasonable expectation for the tables to be smooth and flat, which what I interpret that to mean by definition.[/QUOTE]

The issue is that this is a forum of woodworkers that use woodworking machines. They & I know that using woodworking machines is going to leave scuffs, scratches & discoloration from hand prints & general use.

If we were all tool collectors & bought the machine to only have on display & look pretty, then you may have gotten different responses.

[Mel Fulks]

I don't think "precision ground cast iron table" qualifies as a specification without some numbers and information about the type of iron. Standards for taking care of machines do seem to be different in commercial shops from what they were years ago. I see wrenches dropped on machines in sight of proprietors,and not accidentally ,simply as an idiotic habit.

[David Dobbs]

I also think the $200 offer is like a kick in the pants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Send it BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brett Bobo]

I also think the $200 offer is like a kick in the %@&$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Send it BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David,
I'm not sure where you stand so are you saying I should send it back? That's the first laugh I've gotten with this mess. :D

[Jeff Duncan]

And to the person who would take a Toyota any day over a BMW, well, I guess you've never driven one. Many people aspire to own a BMW; far fewer a Toyota.

John

Weeelllllll.....in truth they're both what I would consider on the expensive side for what you get, and so neither equates in any way whatsoever to this thread. A much better analogy may be the cheapest car on the market, but it would still be a poor one as when we buy new vehicles we are very conscious of the cars looks. Woodworking equipment on the other hand is sold on function. You have to paint them to keep them from rusting, and you have to grind the work surfaces to get them flat, but the "look" of the machine is not nearly as much a selling factor as it is for cars IMHO. Although it's definitely getting more so than is has been in years past. If you compare the surfaces on some of my industrial equipment from 30 - 40 years ago to the new offerings you can see the shift towards much more attention given to finish and sleeker designs;)

I do agree that the response from CS sounds pretty bad....however as usual we only have one side of the story and none of us except for the OP heard the actual conversation? Not saying I don't take the OP's word for it....just that miscommunications happen every day! As such I'm trying to focus more on the evidence which was presented in the photos.

This thread could go on and on, but I believe the consensus is in. He can return the machine for a full refund and take his business elsewhere, or he can keep it and get a $200 credit. I think to most of us that appears a no lose situation? Of course David's point about checking the tables and fence for flat are very valid and in reality much more important and as of yet have not been answered:confused:

JeffD

[Mark Bolton]

The $200 is the clincher.

Reading over the thread quickly I found the car analogy funny. I dont know of a single individual that would accept even the least expensive car sold today with even a scratch on the hood. It simply wouldnt happen even with a 10% kick. Yet here with Grizzly "its no big deal because its going to get scratched anyway.

I had this conversation some time ago with an employee when we were building a nearly $20k deck, all composite decking, for a good customer. He (employee) continually drug boards, tools, dropped things, and so on, on this brand new deck. After repeated cautions to him to be careful he spouted "what the heck man, its a deck, its going to get scratched anyway". Me of course being the one who has to walk over the entire deck with the customer prior to being handed the final check (some 6-7K) said, "its for them to scratch, when we step off it is to be flawless".

I am the first one to be aware that shop equipment is not showroom quality stuff and it gets beat up and that Grizzly is definitely a shoppers brand of tools. I have several tools in my shop at the moment that landed in far worse condition functionally than this one and only because I needed to get them on line I dealt with it, and the supplier.

But I find the brand loyalty humorous. It will be interesting to see when the defenders of the scratches walk in to the home center or appliance store next time to pick up their brand new washing machine to find the side, lid, whatever dented or scratched and the store says "we will give you 10% off" which is what this equates to. You get a 10% off coupon in the Sunday paper. I highly doubt a many here, or their wife, would live with a scratch on the top of their washer or dryer for 10%. Its a great "money where your mouth is".

I would gladly accept the 200 on a woodworking tool, but I dont really care about the appearance of my tools, new or old. In fact, I kinda like'em a little worn and used looking.

[Brian Kincaid]

I'm kinda mixed on this one, but with any mail-order company they have to have a way to handle the outlier customer experience.
At some point they have to stop sending machines to said customer and assume one of the following:
a) The machine batch in inventory have a quality problem, which should certainly be investigated
b) The machine produced by the company (is not/will never be) up to said customer's expectations
c) The customer is just playing games (chasing a 'perfect' machine, trying to get a discount, etc)
I think their offer of full refund was appropriate. Their 10% refund offer and keep machine is generous. If you were in their position what whould you do? How long can a business keep eating the shipping charge?

When I received my 15" planer from Grizzly I was disappointed that the cutouts for the table rollers on the infeed and outfeed looked like they were cut by a teenager with an angle grinder. The infeed and outfeed extensions didn't look as nice as I had hoped. But, everything was acceptably flat and the planer did a great job on the stock. That is ultimately what I wanted so they didn't hear a peep out of me. My kids fingerprints are all over my cast iron tables anyway (it's kind of cute).

I had an experience with Lee Valley. Their crosscut carcass saw worked flawlessly. The rip saw they sent me was a jumpy mess. They sent a replacement without thought, but it was also a jumpy mess. I called and requested they try the saw before it was shipped. The final replacement was acceptable. It had obviously been checked before it was shipped. I am thankful that Lee Valley didn't cut me off and just offer a refund.

-Brian

[Brian Kincaid]

Reading over the thread quickly I found the car analogy funny. I dont know of a single individual that would accept even the least expensive car sold today with even a scratch on the hood.

Scratches on cars are touched up before the car is displayed for sale. They don't even have to tell you about it if it is under a certain dollar amt. The box stores would do the same with their washing machine but it probably isn't in the business model. They also have a significantly lower profit margin on the washing machine so the labor would eat all the profit.

Unfortunately with cast iron, it is what it is. Can't touch it up or repair it. Hey, you could bondo the jointer table! (joke)
-Brian

[Peter Aeschliman]

Bottom line here. Love it or hate it, your options are clear:



Return the machine for a full refund and buy a jointer from another vendor, or
Take the $200 and keep the machine


I'm sorry if you don't like your options. But they are what they are. You can get out of this with no financial outlay whatsoever, so you're hardly screwed here. If you posted this thread to publicly blast Grizzly to get more concessions for yourself, then you've not only wasted the time of everybody who has contributed to this thread, but most of us who contributed do not agree with your opinion that Grizzly is being unreasonable. Grizzly will have no reason to make further concessions based on public embarrassment because the public is generally on their side.

End of story.

[Mel Fulks]

I don't see it as taking sides and I am not a big fan of Grizzly .In offering to take back the machine they are fulfilling all reasonable obligations.They are not going to make a higher quality single machine because someone wants them to. We don't know what the specs say ,but I'm sure the manufacturer does.

[Mark Bolton]

How long can a business keep eating the shipping charge?

What would be interesting would be to hear the un-edited back story of how a company can keep servicing a market that clearly is shopping for the lowest price yet expects pretty high tolerance and cosmetic standards.

It seems the two are in direct conflict with one another. While you do hear about shipper damage, often times in these posts its clear the machine left the warehouse in the exact condition it landed.

While one post mentioned that after shipping two machines the seller is likely in the hole, being in business I can only guess that to have a customer service department fielding this number of calls, shipping replacement parts out more often or as often as you ship machines, and the replacement shipping costs, the margin on even these "inexpensive" machines has got to be substantial even given the volume. Perhaps all this damage get billed back to the Chinese manufactures, I have no idea. But you cant absorb all these replacement parts, shipping, and customer service staff without some serious margin.

[Mark Bolton]

The box stores would do the same with their washing machine

Apples for apples, an enameled appliance is just about as touch-up-able as a cast iron top, its not. But all the same factors apply, the appliance is going to get scratched with laundry baskets set on top (mine is). If Im shopping at scratch-and-dent then Im ok with it, but even at "bob's bargain appliances - the place where you always get the lowest price", if someones buying new I could see how they would be expecting new.

[Jeff Monson]

What would be interesting would be to hear the un-edited back story of how a company can keep servicing a market that clearly is shopping for the lowest price yet expects pretty high tolerance and cosmetic standards.

Mark, I think the percentage of people who find this unacceptable must be fairly low. Otherwise I think the boat would sink pretty quickly. Either that or the profit percentage is HUGE in these imported machines.

[Jerome Stanek]

It would depend on the credit If it is a credit for the purchase of more Grizzly equipment then No that would be unexceptable but if it a refund on your credit card I would be OK with that. I hate when companies give you a store credit as I may not be shopping for anything more from them for quit some time.

[Herr Dalbergia]

Hello,

1. NEW machines are not supposed to have scratches.
2. I would never accept this. If I scratch it myself during use...my problem, but when I pay a new machine I want a new machine.
3. If it is normal for Grizzly machines to be delivered with scratches, they should mention this on their homepage.
4. ALL my machines I bought had scratches, I am buying only used. Way cheaper and way better machines for the same or less money, and who cares about some scratches on a jointer / bandsaw / tablesaw.....

https://picasaweb.google.com/115793185519493121307/MaschinenMaschines

5. So you want to compare a BMW to a Toyota?, Ok, but please do this on German highway going 135 miles, then we talk again ;)

https://picasaweb.google.com/115793185519493121307/BMWE39530DTouringIndividual


BUT, I fell 200 Dollar for a scratch is OK, I would probably fell OK with that.



cheers, Alex

[Alan Bienlein]

I just showed the pictures to my wife and asked her what she would do. She said she would call Grizzly and if given the same two options as the OP she would take the money and run!

[David Kumm]

Bauerle and Stehl. I'm in envy land and I've got Oliver and Porter. The old BMW 5 series was their best model. Dave

[Mark Bolton]

Mark, I think the percentage of people who find this unacceptable must be fairly low. Otherwise I think the boat would sink pretty quickly. Either that or the profit percentage is HUGE in these imported machines.

Im sure your right Jeff. I can imagine the industrial/commercial side that is use to seeing a little nick and scratch must make up for a bit too. Not so say that Im pooh pooh on the manufacturer but I am honestly surprised at how much of their equipment I see in small commercial shops.

I'm no different as I have import machines too...

[Mark Bolton]

Hello, https://picasaweb.google.com/115793185519493121307/MaschinenMaschines

Alex,
Nice group of equipment! What is this:
https://plus.google.com/photos/115793185519493121307/albums/5658655011963300545/5658656889229602706?banner=pwa