Help!?!?! I may have gotten in over my head!

[Nathan Wertman]

I'm working on a Nicholson style workbench which has basically been liften from Mr. Schwarz's book. I don't have a workbench to speak of in my shop, so this seemed like a necessary first project. After letting the wood dry in my shop for several months, it seems that the top pieces have a good amount of twist, bow and cupping in them.

Here is the base (it is 100% rock solid, though not 100% true and square):
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Here is the best way to explain the issue I'm seeing with the top pieces (there are other pictures below but this shows the problem best):
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So, how does a guy with a minimal amount of experience working wood and his sole jack plane go about solving this problem? I've never glued up a top (did I say I was in over my head), so I'm not sure how much twist/bow/cupping I can pull out via simply clamping up a jointed edge.

Here is my thought:
- Rip the worst of the boards down (the bench is 27" wide and I have 3 2x12s so there is some extra I can cut off)
- Add a few more stretchers to the design, and anchor those stretchers to the aprons
- Glue one top piece to the aprons & stretchers and use screws to force the boards flat after I do some hand planing in the worst areas
- Joint the next top piece and glue/clamp/screw to the first piece attached to the top

A few questions:
- How much twist, cup & bow can a guy successfully remove from a 2x12x96 using the process I mentioned above?
- Is it better to have the cup up or down on a workbench?
- Would it be best to rip all the boards in half so I'm only flattening a 6" wide board rather than a 12" wide board?

Note, It would be easy to just give up on this lumber and buy more, but I'm already over budget as it is for this bench so I'd really not like to start over. I also don't need the bench to be an heirloom to my family, if I have to replace it in 5 or 6 years, I'm okay with that. I just need something to help me get started on this hobby.

Thanks in advance for the suggestions...

Here are some more shots of the boards:


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[David Weaver]

I would rip those boards dead center and reglue them the opposite way they came out to cancel out their behavior more or less, but I think overall you'll be much better off if you can get back to the borg and select better boards (that are rift sawn or some that end up being quartered or whatever). To clamp boards that poorly behaved after jointing will be difficult.

The one with the pith right in the middle is surprisingly well behaved at this end, but I'm going to guess that the pith isn't right in the middle on the other end because of the way a tree lays on a sawmill - one end wider than the other.

They (white pine, df, whatever) are still fairly wet compared to KD hardwood lumber, and they are all going to move some as they dry unless their orientation is perfect from end to end.

[Nathan Wertman]

I *really* can’t afford new lumber or I would have done that already (that really is the right solution). I guess I’ll have to go with your suggestion of ripping and flipping David. Do you mean to flip the boards end for end after ripping or flipping the boards edge for edge (or both?)

I suppose I could avoid the glue and just use screws (and set them deeply) so that I can remove this top if/when it proves to problematic.

[Bob Coleman]

Another option (which would require more lumber) is to rip everything to 2-3" and faceglue it all together to make a butcher-block style top. For even more stability you can insert 2 or 3 long bolts across everything.

[Nathan Wertman]

They (white pine, df, whatever) are still fairly wet compared to KD hardwood lumber, and they are all going to move some as they dry unless their orientation is perfect from end to end.

David, these have been sitting in my garage for 4 months (in a desert climate). Is it likely that they are still wet, or were you assuming that I had just purchased them?

If I were to buy new boards, how long would you recommend I let them sit before using them?

Nate

[Jim Koepke]

Nathan,

No matter what you end up doing, this is a learning experience. It is trials such as these that will stay with you on your journey through woodworking.

My thought was along the lines of what Bob suggests of ripping the boards into smaller pieces such as 2X2s or 2X3s and then setting them on edge for the top. You might need to purchase another few pieces.

Often my trip through the borges has me looking at the 2X3s. Occasionally there is some really good straight grained pieces there. Even if there isn't a pending need they will be taken home for use later. For a bench top the only down side is the rounded corners that would need to be planed down.

jtk

[David Weaver]

David, these have been sitting in my garage for 4 months (in a desert climate). Is it likely that they are still wet, or were you assuming that I had just purchased them?

If I were to buy new boards, how long would you recommend I let them sit before using them?

Nate

I assumed that they were purchased in the last few weeks and have moved. I'm sure they are dry now based on where you live. If you bought new ones, you'd go through the same thing. Laminating is what I would do if I was using questionable wood, as others are suggesting, but it is a lot of work and you'd need more wood than that to do it. Laminating with those boards would require a lot of ripping, and since they are twisted along their lenghth, I personally would cut them and then laminate like a butchers block so that the pieces that you were starting with were fairly straight.

If I were in a dry climate like where you are, I think a couple of weeks stickered somewhere would be fine to let most of the movement happen. They wouldn't be 8% dry like a dried hardwood at the end, but they would be a lot better than fresh off the truck.

[Nathan Wertman]

Thanks David, Bob and Jim...

I’m beginning to think that ripping these boards is about my best bet. If I rip into 2” widths, I can get 5 per board (6 would be too close if you include the saw kerf). That means I can get 15 pieces at 1.5” wide == 22.5. I can probably find enough money under the sofa cushions to pick up a couple of 2x boards from the borg to make up the difference.

Honestly, I like the thought of a thicker top and the ability to orient the knots away from my bench top. I planned on putting in a wagon vice, so laminating actually saves some cutting in that regard.

Maybe the end result will be better than it would have otherwise because of this mistake. I can always shoot for that anyway.

[Jim Koepke]

I can always shoot for that anyway.

Be careful with that. The last thread on shooting got a little dicey.

Remember, the difference between a professional and a novice is what they do with their mistakes.

With lemons, one can make lemon aide or just go around being sour.

jtk

[jamie shard]

One thing I did with my Nicholson bench (which was also one of my first projects, the wood got wonky, and I learned a lot), is I used my best wood up front, and then I planed down the remaining wood and turned the back into a little shelf area.

In your case, you could take the more flat sections of wood you have, rip out the pith areas, and glue up a new top section for the front of the bench. Then use the front part of the bench to go to work on the the remaining warped material. You might have to do more ripping to minimize the cup and you will probably have to plane down more until it's flat. It might be about 1" by the time you're done. No big deal, you won't be pounding on it. Put a little rail around the outside edge of the "shelf" and you're done for now. Later on, you can always replace that section with a full thickness piece.

Good luck!

[Nathan Wertman]

That is another good idea Jamie! I may just try ripping the most warped pieces of wood into sections for a laminate bench top. If that is proving problematic, I can make a few strategic rips to get the best wood I have out and just make the top from that. I may be a few inches short, but I can come back with some of the uglier wood or even a new board a few months down the road. At least I can continue to make progress on the project!

I love this forum...

[Mark Roderick]

I'm with those who suggest ripping those boards into fairly narrow widths and gluing them up.

If it helps, you didn't do anything wrong. The lumber you get at the big-box stores is just terrible, in my experience. I have had 2x4s I bought at HD twist almost 90 degrees, like a pretzel.

I don't know if you have a jointer, or if you know how to joint by hand. Once you rip the wide boards it would be nice to get their edges at 90 degrees before you glue them back together. Although you can do a decent job of that at the tablesaw.

Once you get the whole thing together and fastened to the top, you can always use planes or a belt sander to flatten the top, which is really all that matters.

Good luck.

[Nathan Wertman]

Mark, I feel that the consensus is that I should do what you recommend.

The trick is that:
a) I’ve never done a laminated glue up
b) I don’t have a table saw
c) I have very limited experience with a hand plane

I think I’ve found a simple jig I can build which will allow me to safely create flat and square 2” strips of wood off my windy 2x12s. I can glue the top up in sections (3 or 4 at a time) and glue those sections together pretty reliably with the set of clamps I have.

I’ve read online that I should make sure to orient the strips with the grain running all in the same direction to make planing the top easier. This makes sense, but I’m such a planing novice, I have no idea if I’m going with or against the grain. I can obviously tell when I’m going across the grain, but the finer point of ‘with or against’ is not apparent to me.

Would you, or anyone else have any suggestions on how to orient the boards during a lamination like this?

[glenn bradley]

I call my current bench "my next bench" because one tends to go through a few before they land on one that's just right. If you had additional material I would rip the boards to 2-1/2" and laminate up a top. Alternately you can rip as little as possible and re-glue to get a reasonable top going. If it is any consolation, my current bench is about to become my outfeed table and "my next bench" is percolating in my head right now ;-)

[Bob Jones]

When you rip that board be sure to throw the center of the tree in the garbage. The pith, I believe it is called. Next time try to avoid buying the pieces with that section, as those boards are more prone to movement and splitting. Also, I know you think that you can not afford more lumber, but buying is really the easiest option. It would be easy to afford another board for the top compared to buying lumber for your next project. Best of luck with whatever option you pick.

[Tom Vanzant]

In the view showing the four plank ends, the left plank on top is an almost perfect quarter-sawn plank. Save that one for another project. Buy one more plank with grain similar to the other three and use it. Cut the boards into narrower strips, square them up and either laminate on edge or edge-glue. Either will require flattening. If you don't have a tablesaw or bandsaw, you can use a straightedge guide to rip the planks or seek out another woodworker or shop in your area to rip them. Definitely plan to add support members under the top. Good luck and welcome to an adventure.

[Stanley Covington]

I cringed when I saw the pics. I have had similar experiences.

Straightening the boards out by hand would be a good experience and help you develop your skills, IF you are patient enough to saw, joint, laminate, and plane the benchtop using the the few tools you have. That's a big IF, because it will be a lot of hard work, and to make it worse, even if you do the job skillfully, the finished product will be second class.

The real problem here is that the material itself is not worth the effort.You will look back on it years from now and shake your head. Silk purse. Sow's ear.

The advice I would give my brother or my son if they had the same problem would be to save their pennies and buy good, dry, stable, hardwood and make a new benchtop. And I would suggest they use sliding dovetail battens underneath. The result would be a useful and reliable benchtop, something they could be proud of and that would serve them well for many years, something you are unlikely to achieve using this lumber regardless of how skillfully you remedy the problems it has right now.

For what it is worth.

Stan

[Casey Gooding]

I have built several benches in the past. Taking your situation into consideration, I would recommend wider rips and edge gluing them together. As said before, you want to make sure you rip out the pith, that will stabilize your boards a good bit more than they are now. It will also save you money.
As far as determining the grain direction, the easy way is to just run your hands along the grain in both directions. One direction will feel smoother than the other, that direction is with the grain. It may not be 100% accurate, but it's correct more often than not, and you'll figure out pretty quickly while planing if it's not the way that board wants to be planed.

[Mark Roderick]

I wouldn't worry about the grain orientation. Some would say to flip every other board over so that when they continue to bend in the future, they will be bending in different directions.

You won't have a problem with the glue-up if you do two boards at a time. I wouldn't try to do more this time around.

If you don't have a tablesaw, how are you ripping the boards? With a circular saw? That will work just as well. as long as you're running the saw against a flat surface to ensure a straight cut.

You are learning so much about the basics of woodworking, it's great.

[Pat Barry]

I think that there are a couple things to consider.
1st - you have a very significant amount of overhang of the bench top at each end and a pretty wide span between the cross-members for the 2x lumber you are using. If it were me I would want to reinforce that significantly both on the overhang and between the legs to ensure its is rigid and not bouncy. I would want to do this on the ends even if you pursue the cut and laminate method.
2nd - Keep in mind that with the cut and laminate method, you will be exposing a great many knots as surface features so you will have to do lots of additional cutting to keep these from ending up on the surface of your bench where they are more likely to come loose someday as the material dries further and shrinks. That and cutting out the pith secion of the lumber may reduce you to little yield from each 2x12.

[Art Kieres]

Hi Nathan,
I sympathize with your position... wonky wood sucks... As others have said, ripping and laminating is your best bet. If you have a truck and a day to spare you could drive up to my shop in Salt Lake City and I'd be happy to let you use our big bandsaw, jointer, and planer to get your boards usable.

Art

[Brent VanFossen]

There is another option that I didn't see anyone mention. The Borgs are generally very good about making exchanges. Judging from the stapled label on the end of that vertical board, it looks like you probably bought from one of the borgs instead of from a lumber yard.

You might take them back to the store where you bought them, politely explain that the boards twisted and cupped more than you expected, and ask if they would allow you to make an exchange. You have a lot to gain and nothing to lose.

If they say yes, choose boards without pith, as others have said. The pith is the central part of the tree, and the pith is well-known to misbehave as humidity changes. It's the little round part of the left horizontal board in your photo of the end grain. If I can't find quartersawn, I try to choose boards with growth rings having the largest radius I can find when I want them to be stable.

Another thing to look for - kiln-dried lumber will have already done most of its moving before you buy it, while green wood is more of a game of luck. A lot of construction lumber is sold green. Here in the Pacific Northwest, the stores stock both kiln-dried douglas fir and green, with the kiln-dried costing 10 to 20 percent more. You have to really pay attention, but you can tell by the labeling, or ask someone there.

Good luck.

[Steve Meliza]

Trying to return is a good idea if you have the time to wait for the new board to dry. I have had no trouble returning 1x cedar trim boards before even without receipt. They just scanned the label on the end and gave me store credit.

Just a few days ago I bought my own 2x12 16' Doug fir boards for a work bench. The only place I could find it kiln dried was at a large lumber yard (Parr in Hillsboro). They had 620 in stock, but to my dismay they store it out in the rain along with the green wood and according to my moisture meter I may as well have purchased green boards and saved my money. In hind sight I'd rather have made my rounds to the HD stores in the area and picked out a gem or two here or there as they turned up.

Here is a recent blog entry Bob Rozaieski made regarding selecting construction lumber for a workbench. It mirrors much of what has already been said here, but it puts it all neatly onto one post. http://logancabinetshoppe.com/blog/2013/02/wide-construction-lumber-for-a-workbench/

[Joe Cowan]

I finished my bench last year and kick myself for waiting so long. How I got along without a solid bench is beyond me now. I considered doing a southern yellow pine bench, with 3" pieces glues together face to face. I ended up using maple. However, if I had used the SYP, I was going to be selective at the big box stores, buy 2X10 or 2X12 and cut the center out, thus creating a quarter or rift saw remaining piece. Glue that up and it should be a stable top.

[Adam Cruea]

As much as it will probably blow a budget apart, or be painful, I'd do the "rip and laminate" thing.

Less worry about movement over time, the top will get heavier (and the bench will be heavier, which is a good thing), and it will probably be a touch stronger in the long run.

Just my $.02.