OK, This hurt and I know Better

[Scott Coffelt]

As I alluded to on Weekend Accomplishments, I had a small inccident while working with the Table Saw this weekend. I had just removed the MJ splitter to do some dado cuts and went back to trim a 1/4" piece of plywood up. I thought I had reinstalled the splitter. Anyways, as I pushed the piece through it must have caught the outfeed table cause it stopped for a sec and then whammo. In a split second the piece fly back and up like a fresbie. I got hit about a few inches due West of some important anatomy to me and SWMBO, right in the fleshy area. It then bounced off me and headed about 6 more feet sideways and stuck into the wall about 4 inches. I grabbed in pain. After a few minutes I looked down and there was some serious blood. I dropped my drawers and there was a 1" long by 1/4" wide by 1/2-3/4" deep gouge in the pelvis area. Blood was running pretty good. I quickly grabbed some stuff to stop the bleeding and check it out. The first thing I thought was there is some pretty important blood highways running in there. I also got a little woozie so I decided to sit down.

No one was home, so I went up stairs and bandaged it up some more and thought I should get stiches. I never did. Anyways, I now have a nasty bruise and the gash looks to be closed, and extremely tender.

Anyways, if the MJ was in I would have been fine..... dumb, dumb, dumb.

Pics, a shot of the piece stuck in the wall, then removed shot and finally a pic of the wasted fresbie.

First mishap in the shop besides the occasional slice with something sharp or the hammer to the finger thing.

[Jeff A. Smith]

Lucky it missed the important parts, lucky it didn't take a finger before it frisbeed.

Doesn't take much to have something go awry.

Thanks for posting -- it's a good safety reminder.

Jeff

[Terry Hatfield]

WOW!!!! Glad your realtively OK Scott. It could have been much worse I suppose. Heal quickly my friend and make sure the MJ is in!!!

t

[Dino Makropoulos]

''''''Pics, a shot of the piece stuck in the wall, then removed shot and finally a pic of the wasted fresbie.'''''

Joint compound and fiberglass tape for the wall. Ez fix. :rolleyes:


And table saw underwear for you. Because...you never know. :rolleyes:

I'm glad you ok. :)
YCF Dino

[John Hart]

Oww.:( Makes me hurt thinkin' about it. Glad you didn't get it worse. guess we'll have to call it good luck...although, I suppose it doesn't feel too good.

[Roy Wall]

Scott,

Glad you'll be okay.....I think....

Thanks for the heads-up.

I don't have an outfeed table on my little table saw, but I suppose if I put on on I'd better make sure it is dead flush or even a little BELOW the saw surface????

take care and heal up quick!!!

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Yikes, that hurts just thinkin' about it. Glad you weren't hurt worse....

[Corey Hallagan]

Holey smokes!! Glad your ok, well almost!

Corey

[M. A. Espinoza]

Wow, I can't believe 1/4" could have that kind of energy in a kick. I usually relax a little when I'm handling thin stuff (except laminate). Good reminder, thanks for posting.

Hope all heals OK.

[Jim Young]

Glad you didn't get hurt any worse. I have that same board in my basement, mine just didn't stick to the wall.

[Rob Blaustein]

Glad you're ok! As you point out, there are several important structures in the general territory where you got hit, and it is common to feel faint after injuries like this (good thing you didn't actually faint). I have to say, I'm nervous about working in the shop when nobody's home (OK, I'm nervous working in my shop period). Just curious about something--that piece of wood looks pretty square, would the MJ splitter really have helped?
-Rob

[Ian Barley]

Scott

Hope that you recover well. You had a lucky break and will learn from it. Even better, by your post we all gaot the lucky break of having the chance to learn from it.

Thanks for taking the time, make sure you take the time to heal well.

[Alan DuBoff]

Wow, I can't believe 1/4" could have that kind of energy in a kick. I usually relax a little when I'm handling thin stuff (except laminate). Good reminder, thanks for posting.

Hope all heals OK.You might want to check out Kelly Mehler's book, "The Table Saw Book", where he shows pictures in the book of this exact situations on page 65, titled, "Kickback in Action". The pictures Scott showed are classic of what happens as the blade scars the material with an arch.

Good thing it wasn't more serious, boards can travel upwards of 100 mph...

[lou sansone]

glad that you are ok.. the only time I have had one of those incidents is exactly with the same type of 1/4 plywood. I feel much safer now that I have installed my riving knife.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=19825

I have been looking at maybe swapping out my 16" Rockwell / Delta TS for another american made saw, like an oliver 88 or northfield #4, but they have to have the riving knife option for just the reason that you posted.

take care
lou

[Jim Becker]

Geepers Scott...I'm really, really glad you ok...and glad you didn't post pictures of the "personal damage"!! Ouch!!

[Steve Roxberg]

Glad you survived, but you better be carefull. Let's consider this a not so gentle reminder to be very carefull with the tools.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Scott,

OUCH, OUCH, OUCH!! Man I had bet that you are sore! Make sure you keep an eye out for infection in that wound, you don't want infection near your manly parts!

Also, is your tetnus (sp?) up to date? If it has been 5 years or more, you should get a booster with an injury like that.

As all others, glad to hear that you are mostly okay! I am sure you will have a scar but no permanant damage.

Take care!

[Steve Aiken]

I'm glad the damage was no worse than it was.

Excuse my ignorance, but how would a splitter or riving knife have prevented this kickback. I thought the purpose of a splitter was to prevent the board from pinching behind the blade as it goes through the blade, especially important if there is tension or warpage in the board.

Steve

[Greg Heppeard]

Scott,
Glad you're ok and the thing wasn't headed east!!

Gotta teach that saw to yell "HEADS UP!!"

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Glad it wasn't more serious Scott.

[Scott Coffelt]

Glad you're ok! As you point out, there are several important structures in the general territory where you got hit, and it is common to feel faint after injuries like this (good thing you didn't actually faint). I have to say, I'm nervous about working in the shop when nobody's home (OK, I'm nervous working in my shop period). Just curious about something--that piece of wood looks pretty square, would the MJ splitter really have helped?
-Rob

Yes it would have, the piece would have never been able to touch the back side of the blade other than when it was cut. I have the MJ offset with the pluses to cause it to push away slightly.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Scott, you may want to look at those Kevlar chainsaw pants. Also, I think that curved cut would have been easier to make on a bandsaw.....:eek:

[Scott Coffelt]

I'm glad the damage was no worse than it was.

Excuse my ignorance, but how would a splitter or riving knife have prevented this kickback. I thought the purpose of a splitter was to prevent the board from pinching behind the blade as it goes through the blade, especially important if there is tension or warpage in the board.

Steve
The splitter would have blocked the board from being able to hit the back side of the blade, and thus it would not have climbed and then flunge back. I set mine up where I have a slight offset to the fence side of the blade and thus after the cut it pushes the wood away from the back of the blade. I have the fence slightly offset as to not pinch the wood.

I know one thing, I'll be making a new Xcut sled soon.

Jewels are fine, big old bruise and tender as all get out, I know now why football players often do not come back in from a contusion, them things hurt.

Shots all up to date and yes, I have been keeping an eye on things.

[Scott Coffelt]

Scott, you may want to look at those Kevlar chainsaw pants. Also, I think that curved cut would have been easier to make on a bandsaw.....:eek:

Oh, I don't plan on making the same mistake twice, but did think about buying a nice leather shop apron. I was going for a rough cut, bandsaw would have been too clean :rolleyes:

[Jim W. White]

I had a very similar experience ALSO with 1/4 plywood peice. Left the same tell-tale arc'ed cut marc on the peice of plywood. In my case the culprit turned out to be my fence, not the outfeed table. My fence sits proud enough of the top of the tableaw that thin material can slide under it. At that point the material is bound-up between the fence and the spinning blade and whamo. The solution is an auxilarary fence which I need to install when ripping any material as thin or thinner than 1/4".

Just FYI. It sounds like the thin stock has bitten more than one of us and in my case the VEGA fence has too much clearance between it and the tabletop.

Glad to hear your OK Scott. (relatively speaking:o ) Keep a close watch on that wound. Wouldn't want to get a staff infection starting in that general area :eek:

...Jim in Idaho

[Mark J Bachler]

A guy at work got hit in the belly with a piece just like yours. Did the same thing to him as yours did to the wall. Knocked him off his feet & took 24 stiches. I have seen more accidents involving 1/4" material than any other thickness. Not sure why that is. We sure cut allot more 3/4" stuff than 1/4".


Heal quick & learn.

[Chris Padilla]

Where's the pic of the gash??? ;)

Glad you are okay...sometimes we still learn lessons the hard way....

[Ellen Benkin]

You should have left the piece in the wall as a constant reminder to always check the splitter. I'm glad you're ok. Where I take classes we have a required lesson on table saw safety at the beginning of each semester. One of the instructors uses styrofoam panels to demonstrate kickback and it is amazing how far styrofoam will flly off the table saw. The demo certainly gets everyone's attention.

[Steve Cox]

Glad you are okay! That could have been a lot worse. For those who have asked, that arc is a classic kickback that happens when the edge of the board that is to the rear of the saw comes away from the fence. That is one of the things that a splitter will do is help keep that edge against the fence. Hand position and pressure on the board is another very important element here. The other thing that is very important but is difficult to do (at least for me) is where your eyes are. The tendency is to look at the blade but the proper place to look is at the fence past the back of the blade. Other than making sure your hands are out of the way of the blade the fence is what controls everything about the cut. If the board is flush against the fence then you will have a clean edge. Watching the fence will also warn you that kickback conditions are happening because if you see the edge come away from the fence you have a problem. Once again Scott, I'm glad you're okay....and hopefully a little bit wiser;) .

[Keith Christopher]

A guy at work got hit in the belly with a piece just like yours. Did the same thing to him as yours did to the wall. Knocked him off his feet & took 24 stiches. I have seen more accidents involving 1/4" material than any other thickness. Not sure why that is. We sure cut allot more 3/4" stuff than 1/4".
Heal quick & learn.

1) Scott, WOW! glad you're not hurt more seriously ! Take care of yourself and that wound. Keep it clean and bandaged and drink plenty of water.

2) I think the 1/4" material is because in my experience is the lightness of it on the TS give the blade an added advantage (like it needs one. ) in catching up on the back 1/2 of the blade.


Keith

[Ron Huisinga]

Early this morning after switching out the safety brake for a dado brake on my SAWSTOP I began to setup for a few test cuts with a dado set.
During these test cuts is when IT HAPPENED!

www.huisinga.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album35&page=1 (http://www.huisinga.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album35&page=1)


Began running a small test board through and at the best of my recollection must have loosen my grip on the push pad which twisted the board and got bound up between the fence, it then ripped the push pad from my hand causing my forefinger to come in contact with the blade. Then BANG! I just stood there in shock looking where the board had ended up accross the shop and the push pad was all torn up.

Wondering why did the saw stop and the blade disappear???
Finally looking down at my finger noticed a slight nick!

Wow this thing really works!

Very Humble Sawstop Owner

[Dave Right]

Thanks for the reminders.

I always appreciate those that take the time to post accidents to save others possible future injury. I always can use the wake up call and there are times I am working too close for comfort to the blade and I think of accidents I recently read and back off!

[Rob Blaustein]

Glad you are ok as well. Well, now you know you got your money's worth. A story worthy of its own thread, I'd say.

[Jim Hager]

for the lesson that I used today with my ninth grade class. I have been harping on table saw safety all school year and this gave me some more fuel for the fire. :rolleyes: I showed the class your post and the pictures. They seemed to be aware of what you called a little west of some important parts to yourself and SWMBO. :( I had to explain what SWMBO was and it got quite a chuckle from the group. Anyway, just thought that you should know that you have been used as an example of what not to do with a table saw.:D

We haven't had an incident in the shop this year, so far!!:confused: Hopefully won't have one, just 9 more days until summer break.

[Dave Wright #2]

Wow! Save #4 to my knowledge, and the first that came with photo evidence. This is potentially the most expensive SawStop trip, though still way less than if you had been cut. How's the dado blade doing? Is it recoverable? The cartridge really folded up. I have spare 10" cartridges on hand, but only one 8". Maybe I should have a second. Dave

[Ron Huisinga]

I posted a photo of the dado along with the other pics.

Lost a tooth on each blade in the stack, don't think I'll reuse.

So I begin the hunt for a replacement set. Any suggestions?

I had been using a set from Avenger Products, not top line nor bottom either

Trust me I'll take the offset in costs as a plus vs a hamburger finger!

[Scott Coffelt]

Jim always happy to be of assistance, though I wish a little less painful message. I had a shop teacher talk about shop saftey and 10 minutes later he drove a badnsaw blade about 1 into his thumb..... the class got his message loud and clear... so did he.

Yes it happens very quickly...

[Scott Coffelt]

Dave nice sawstop example, I am sure the blade is toast but still cheaper than adoctors bill and to have the finger reattached. I am sure I would have bought one when I bought my saw, but they were just starting to talk about the concept and nowhere close to product.

[Keith Christopher]

Dave nice sawstop example, I am sure the blade is toast but still cheaper than adoctors bill and to have the finger reattached. I am sure I would have bought one when I bought my saw, but they were just starting to talk about the concept and nowhere close to product.


For me, with regards to sawstop. nuff said. I think the most dramatic piece of this is the fact you didn't notice you were cut being it was so small and quick. so glad for you that you weren't hurt.




Keith

[Dave Wright #2]

Oh yea - on the second page. Tore the teeth right off. If you've been happy with the Avenger, and figure that the accident is not likely to happen again, I'd just get another set. Maybe Avenger will sell you just the outside blades so you can reuse the chippers and save a little. If, on the othe hand, you're concerned about the financial hit, I would consider the Freud economy carbide tip set. I've seen it rated "Best Buy" in reviews.

There has been plenty of speculation in the past about SawStop making operators cavalier and sloppy in their table saw use habits. Were you in any way cutting differently with the SawStop than you would have with your previous saw? I'm guessing not, but figure I might as well ask since that has been a common statement by skeptics.

Take Care, Dave

[Ron Huisinga]

There has been plenty of speculation in the past about SawStop making operators cavalier and sloppy in their table saw use habits. Were you in any way cutting differently with the SawStop than you would have with your previous saw? I'm guessing not, but figure I might as well ask since that has been a common statement by skeptics.

Take Care, Dave
Dave, that’s a very good an valid question that deserves an answer with respect to all the issues surrounding the Sawstop. In as much the passion that has been displayed in some threads located here.
It now seems to be one of those forbidden topics that you don’t discuss at the office like religion, sex, politics and now with Sawstop being added to that list.

I truly feel that I wasn’t cavalier about the safety features of the saw at the time, as I have a great respect for any tool regardless. An especially since to the best of my knowledge had never heard of an actual case. A demo on a wiener is one thing, another with a real living human body part.

My main reason for the purchase of the Sawstop was to first satisfy my need for a good cabinet saw with some of the best features found on other manufactures. Secondly was to embrace some new technology, since I am in the technology field. Which in my position I generally play it rather safe when it comes to bleeding edge technologies and only go with tried & true proven best practices in the industry.

Was I sloppy? No. Careless Yes! I allowed myself to become distracted and relaxed and the wrong moment. In the last six years of woodworking this is my first accident on the table saw were I had contact with the blade.

This leads to the another question: Why so soon after receiving the Sawstop?
I truthfully can’t answer that one. Was it written in the stars, ordained by some outside forces or was just dumb luck??

In circumspect I hopefully will not become complacence nor sloppy in my work habits. In fact at this point in time very humble and somewhat apprehensive of using the saw.
And very grateful to a gentleman named Dr. Gass.

I can attest to the fact this is not some manufactures bluesky, vaporware or overzealous sales pitch. It saved my trigger finger! ;>

My reason for posting my humbling experience today was not to pitch the sawstop but as a reminder that in a single moment of in tentativeness bad things can & will happen in the shop.

I have this quote in my workshop
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody

Thanks for the suggestion on the Freud set I’ll take a look at those. As I can’t remember when or where I purchased the Avenger.

Dave, Thanks for your thought provoking question.
Best
Ron

[John Shuk]

Scott,
I'm glad you are somewhat ok. These threads always remind me to be vigilant.
John

[Kurt Voss]

In grad school, our department head did woodworking as a hobby. He had made a large, nicely finished plaque with the label "FUBAR Award" at the bottom. Whenever someone would break a piece of lab equipment, he would mount the broken pieces to the plaque along with the individuals name underneath. It served as a humorous reminder to be careful.

[Dave Wright #2]

Correction: Ron's save wasn't #4. I passed the link to Steve Gass and received the reply that it was actually #6. #4 was a week ago in a cabinet shop. #5 was yesterday at a high school.

[Steve Aiken]

Glad you're ok, scott. Musta been quite the shock.

How much are the replacement brake cartridges?

Steve

[Dave Wright #2]

Ron, thanks for the thoughtful reply. It sounds like yours was a textbook accident. You were reasonably careful. Sometimes these things just happen. Your quote from General Cody is one that we all should take to heart. Until brakes are available on other tools, I will use my SawStop to perform more tasks than I used to do on the table saw. Regards, Dave

[Sam Chambers]

You might want to check out Kelly Mehler's book, "The Table Saw Book"...

I saw Mehler demonstrate kickback, using a piece of rigid styrofoam insulation. Scary. It made quite an impression on me - so much so that I never use my saw without the guard/splitter in place, even though it's poorly designed and a nuisance to remove and reinstall.

Also, a doctor once told me that if you're looking at a wound and wonder whether it needs stitches, it probably does.