Bench leg vise vs. twin screw?

[Don Jeansonne]

I am wrestling with which front vise to use on my workbench (not yet built). I am leaning towards the leg vise as it is less expensive and seems to do edge planning really well. The twin screw handling wide boards vertically for dove tailing is not a requirement for me. I would appreciate comments on the pros and cons of the leg vise to be sure I think through the selection. Also if I end up going with a twin screw I would seriously consider two individual screws rather than the coordinated twin like the Veritas Twin. Any issues with this approach other that the obvious operating both screws and more effort to adjust evenly would be appreciated.

[Stanley Covington]

Don

I have three workbenches I have used over the years. I installed a Wilton quick release face vise on the first one (1980?). My next workbench was bigger and I used both a Jorgenson QR vise (front left) and a Veritas twin screw (right end). I made my last workbench on Guam in 2011 and installed only a leg vise using a big German-made screw I bought from Woodcraft. The decision to use a leg vise was driven by the unavailability of decent vises on the tiny island of Guam (shipping costs would have been higher than the cost of the vice itself).

The result is that I love the leg vise much more than the face vise or twin screw vise.

Advantages of Leg Vise:
1. Much more powerful than a face vise. This is important.
2. Longer (measured vertically) bearing surface allows for more securely holding long pieces for sawing. My setup allows me to clamp almost all the way to the floor providing fantastic stability. Neither a face vise or a twin screw vise can do this. Wonderful. Knowing I would be using the vise this way, I built it thicker/stronger than anything I have seen elsewhere. That turned out to be a very good decision.
3. Less metal hanging out there to abuse my hips and dull my tools.
4. Less bulky, more versatile, and a lot cheaper than the LV twin-screw vise. If I had it to do over again, I would not have used the twin-screw vise.

Disadvantages of Leg Vise:
1. Bottom lever point needs to be adjusted to match workpiece. I made it using the traditional hole-filled board with a pin, but now I use two Lee Valley Vise Rack Stops, one for the bottom of the leg and another for the off-side of the jaw at top http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=69605&cat=1,41659.
2. More mass/more effort to adjust. I minimized this by putting a fat urethane SS ballbearing skateboard wheel at the bottom of the leg. But it still takes a bit more time and effort to adjust than a twin guide-rod type face vise.

For someone who is too decrepit to bend over to adjust the leg vise, they might be a problem. For someone that needs little clamping force, or only needs to clamp small/short pieces, a metal face vise is simpler to use. Someone that has children that will be using the bench and might saw or chisel into the vise jaw may find a metal face vise to be a better choice.

After owning and using a twin-screw vise, I have found it to be nice, but always in the way and with limited application. A waste of money in my case.

This is just the way I work. Someone else will have different experiences.

Stan

[Bob Jones]

Simple solution, have both. Leg vise built into the bench with a Moxon style removable twin screw. Win win. That is what I use and I really enjoy both. The best part of the Moxon style twin screw is that it is raised about 8inches above the top of the bench - perfect for sawing.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Stanley - Any info on how you're using the vise rack-stops with the leg vise? I'm having a hard time picturing it, which probably only speaks to my comprehension abilities at this point in the evening, but some pictures or closer description would help; I've got both and curious about how to make that work. Is your vise the same width as your leg all the way down? I can see how the off-side one would work, but I'm confused on the one at the lower leg.

[Steve Voigt]

+1 on the leg vise. I bought a tail vise screw for $40 from LV when they were running a free shipping special. Cadged some used skateboard wheels and bearings from my local skate shop (they refused to charge me anything) and built some brackets as described in Jameel Abraham's blog (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/the-deluxe-roubo). I bought a couple feet of 5/16 steel rod and used it for both the cross pin and the skateboard wheel axles. The whole shebang cost less than $50, and it works great.
Stan covered most of the advantages of a leg vise; I'll just add that when you're edge-planing a wide board, it's nice to have the extra space above the vise screw.
I haven't tried the add-on Moxon-style vise (just finished my new bench a couple months ago), but it certainly seems like the most logical solution. I love the idea of sawing dovetails without killing my back.

Stan, I like that LV vise stop. Have to add that to my list for when they do free shipping again.

-Steve

EDIT: Crap, I just noticed LV is running free shipping NOW! until tomorrow. Better get that order in…

[Stanley Covington]

Stanley - Any info on how you're using the vise rack-stops with the leg vise? I'm having a hard time picturing it, which probably only speaks to my comprehension abilities at this point in the evening, but some pictures or closer description would help; I've got both and curious about how to make that work. Is your vise the same width as your leg all the way down? I can see how the off-side one would work, but I'm confused on the one at the lower leg.

I will try to explain, but pictures are difficult at the moment since my bench is stored under the eaves of the house covered by a plastic tarp to keep the rain off.

I got the idea from Chris Schwarz who wrote that he gave up on using the pegboard entirely and just uses wooden blocks of various sizes to adjust his leg vise. The LV vice rack-stops are a lot better, and more adjustable than blocks of wood. I only wish they were a bit longer.

My leg vise is about 11 inches wide at the jaws, and narrows to about 6" at the bottom. I simply perch the shaft and unused shims of the vice rack-stop on top of the workbench's front bottom spreader beam where it meets the leg-vise post. The selected shims are rotated and inserted between leg vise and post. It stays there very nicely all on its own.

It would be easy enough to make a narrow shelf with a groove big enough to securely hold the rack-stop. I this were mounted to the side of the leg-vise post, or even to the side of the jaw itself near the bottom, the appropriate number of shims could be rotated between vise and post while retaining the rack-stop.

If I am clamping a workpiece in the vise all the way to the floor, the vice rack can be removed, of course.

I hope that is clear. If not, let me know and I will try to get a picture next weekend.

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

Stan covered most of the advantages of a leg vise; I'll just add that when you're edge-planing a wide board, it's nice to have the extra space above the vise screw.
-Steve

Amen! That alone makes the leg vise a winner.

Stan

[steven c newman]

Home made one258126Nothing real fancy about it. That is a 2x12 it is holding.

[Jacob Nothstine]

I would go with a leg vise and a Moxon style removable twin screw vise. I just made a Moxon vise using press screws and it works great. One of the nice things about the vise is having your work higher up so your not bending over to work on parts. 258173258174

[Jim Matthews]

+1 on Bob's solution.

It's easy to put the Moxxon out of the way, when not in use.
Aligning the leg vise with a single screw and pin board is straightforward.

There are more complicated replacements for the pinboard at the bottom,
but the old way is really simple.

[Ben Johnson WI]

I saw a post over at TWW about a guy who came up with the idea of using a linear bearing to take the racking load:

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/roubo-workbench-leg-vise-alternative-linear-bearings/

He's got a video included in the link, and it certainly looks like the vise moves very smoothly. I was just getting ready to replace my face vise with a leg vise, and the idea seemed interesting enough that I bought the parts to give it a try - vise screw from Lee Valley ($40), 30mm rod, 500mm long, tapped M12 in one end ($40, misumi-ec.com), 30mm linear bearing w/ flange mount ($17, eBay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/140811446652 is the specific one I got.)

[ryan carlino]

I did the same thing with the steel shaft and linear bearing. It was mentioned in another thread, too (been meaning to respond to it). Here's the leg with the vise and shaft in place.

258202

It was tough to get everything lined up and square. I spent some time trying to get the screw perfectly parallel to the shaft (which is epoxied to the chop). The action of the screw is good until the vise is almost fully closed, at which point it gets harder to turn the screw. Here it is on the bench.

258203

What I've noticed so far is that when I clamp a board in at the top, the bottom still bows in as I tighten the screw. I wish I would have gotten the steel rod with some sort of threading on it so I could use a metal fastener to hold it to the chop. Even better would be a steel flanged sleeve that could be inset into the chop that would prevent the rod from bowing.

Maybe it was a mistake to only use 1 3/4" thick material for the chop. I can see why popular advice is to use something > 2".

Right now, the vise is definitely usable. I popped in a board and was able to plane its edge without it slipping. A little leather/suede will make it even better. This is a solid option which will get even better as some real-life installation tips come up.

[Jim Matthews]

The greatest determinant of holding power is the faces of the vise where it grips your workpiece.

They need to be parallel, or planing action will cause the vise to move and loosen. (DAMHIKT)
I would be less concerned about bowing of the chop than racking.

[Jim Ritter]

And some of the new screws don't like to be out of parallel at all. The LN screw has roller bearings at the flange/handle intersection that makes for a wonderfully smooth action, but it really doesn't like to be out of square. I have several in my shop, LN screws and leg vises. To me they are far more versatile then a twin screw. But then I'm always working on odd things, not cabinet making. like this. It grips all the way down the leg.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/workbench/adbf7faa.jpg
Jim

[Mike Holbrook]

The leg vise has it's challenges even though it is the favorite vise of the largest group of users. Jim (above) is much to modest, due I think to posting limitations. Jim spent quite a while with our own Derek Cohen working out what I believe is the ultimate solution to leg vise issues, a chain system- ancorayachtservice.com. I made a post recently- Leg Vise, chain or crisscross exploring what I think are the top two solutions to the issues that may be experienced with this great vise. Jim's devise seems to take the prize for the easiest solution to practically any leg vise. The crisscross is a solution BenchCrafted now offers on their vises. I bought Benchcrafted's Glide leg vise hardware just before they came out with the crisscross and was considering returning it for the newer version. That devise requires a more complicated install and places the major part of the mechanism in the easier to foul area just behind the front jaw rather than behind the leg, where most of Jim's hardware makes it's home.

I made my decision and ordered Jim's Deluxe kit yesterday. Jim was very helpful and easy to work with, offering his personal help if I had any problems following the considerable, detailed installation information he offers at his web site. I ordered the kit made for retrofitting to an existing leg vise installed on a bench. I am still working out some details on my bench plan (modified version of Bob Lang's 20th Century Workbench). My design calls for large dovetails in both front legs, to hold a heavy duty stretcher with dog holes, large enough to easily support holdfasts. I may run short of space within my bench's leg vise leg due to whichever of several attachment systems I use for my stretcher. Jim made every effort to accommodate my as yet incomplete plans, sending extra parts and offering to let me return what I don't need. Great guy to work with. I try to support those who try to help the posters here with better solutions to the challenges of woodworking.

[Don Jeansonne]

Thanks to everyone for all the responses. I have decided to go with the leg vise with the LV screw. Now to the bench building.

[Jim Ritter]

I know you will like it.
Jim