Easy Knockdown Basement Spray Booth

[Julie Moriarty]

I'm about to go where I've never gone before, HVLP spraying! :D

After some sound advice received not to ignore the overspray factor, even with HVLP, I decided to build a small spray booth in the basement. I took a 24x24 return vent and put in place of one of the ceiling tiles then ran some 6" flex duct up through the ceiling over to the nearest window. I installed a booster fan in a 6" round solid run and used a piece of 2" foam board insulation to hold the end of the duct.

The booth supports are 1/2" SCH40 PVC pressed into the fittings. The dimensions are about 5'x7'.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/Woodworking/sb_01_zps24ba16e7.jpg http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/Woodworking/sb_02_zpsec9a6bb7.jpg
The plastic covering the can lights droop far enough away that there's no concern about melting the plastic, except maybe the eyeball over the dart board. I'll have to keep an eye on that if I decide I need that light on when spraying.


http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/Woodworking/sb_03_zps69f8d8bd.jpg


It took about an hour to build and assemble. Having two people helps a lot with wrapping the plastic around it. I later noticed it start to lean away from the right hand wall and so I wedged lengths of 1/2" PVC between the top of the frame and the left hand wall. I'll only be spraying WB finishes so I'm hoping the booster fan will just create any kind of vacuum to keep the airborne particulates inside the booth.

I'll see how it works tomorrow!

[John TenEyck]

Julia, that looks very nice. How many cfm is your fan? I've never seen a spray booth vent through the ceiling and I wonder if you're going to have over spray settling on your work with that arrangement. The normal arrangement is to spray towards the exhaust fan on the back wall. Everything is in the same line, and the fan takes away the over spray. I guess you'll know tomorrow how well it works. Let us know, please.

John

[Julie Moriarty]

Hi John,

Yes, there is the possibility/probability the overspray will go airborne and settle back down on the finish. I actually never thought about that when I imagined how I could do HVLP spraying in my basement. I'm not a chemist nor am I anything more than newbie when it comes to this process. I'd imagine if the overhead exhaust was sufficient, that would not happen. But what do I know? All I'm trying to do is figure out a way to spray finishes on the pieces I build, and come out with a nice end result, and be able to do that year around. Somewhere between a professional spray booth and a can of spray finish there has to be a compromise that works. I'm looking for that.

Tomorrow I'll run some tests. But I truly expect that eventually I will just go ahead and make this work. These are kitchen cabinets and while I want them to showcase my work, I also know that one day someone will find them not to their liking and take a sledge hammer to them. Isn't that what the DIY network encourages? So that gives me some chill out room, the attitude that comes with the knowledge that what you are creating will end up as garbage in the future.

While this may not be a perfect solution, I will certainly learn a lot about HVLP spraying, WB finishes and, if I want to take it further, spraying anything with HVLP sprayers. That's okay with me. When you're green, you're growin'. When you're not, you rot. :)

Julie

[John TenEyck]

Sure, give it a try. If you find out you do end up with over spray on your work, it may help to slide the spray booth so the exhaust duct sits at the far end of the booth rather than in the center. That way your over spray is going towards the natural flow of the air rather than against it. If that's no better, then you will either need to increase the cfm or drop the exhaust inlet down closer to the height of your work piece, or both. Good luck.

John

[Julie Moriarty]

I woke up in the middle of the night and found myself thinking about what you said in your first post. I realized I was only considering two things when I designed the "booth" in my mind: 1) Keeping the overspray off the walls, floors, ceilings and furnishing and 2) venting the odors outside. Even just a quarter can of spray lacquer permeates the house for days. While I've seen many plans for building a real spray booth, they all required a lot of space, something I don't have.

What I wasn't thinking about was what would happen inside that enclosed space, until I read your first post. (I just read the 2nd one this morning.)

I built two of these to pick up dust in the workshop:
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/dc/AirFiltFan_08_zpsc46750f3.jpg
I was thinking I could cut an opening at the back of the booth, stack the two fans and vent into the workshop. It wouldn't do much for the exhausting odors outside, but since all I'm using is WB products, that shouldn't be as big an issue as it would with solvent based products. But the two fans should move the air enough to accomplish keeping the overspray off me and the piece I'm working on. That ceiling vent that exhausts outside doesn't move much air.

I'll have to replace the 5" HEPA filter. I don't want to use that for collecting overspray. I did a little research and found 20x20x2 spray booth exhaust pads online that would fit the box dimensions perfectly. I'd just have to delay the spraying until they arrive. I don't know anywhere around here where they would sell something like that. But the place I just ordered from says they ship FedEx overnight so maybe the pads will arrive tomorrow. However long it takes, I've got plenty to keep me busy until they arrive. THEN I'll run those tests. :D

And if all this ends up being nothing more than a lesson learned, I'll have to wait for the weather to break and take everything outside.

Thanks for your help John :)

[Alan Lightstone]

What's your source forthe 20x20x2 spray pads. Might be useful for me for my garage spray booth.

Should you be using activated charcoal / pleated filters to remove the organic particles? I find it helps on my Jet overhead air cleaner.

[Julie Moriarty]

What's your source forthe 20x20x2 spray pads. Might be useful for me for my garage spray booth.

I found them here: http://www.sprayboothsupplies.com/20-x-20-xhd-fiberglass-exhaust-pads.html For a case of 50, including shipping, it was a bit over $51.

[John TenEyck]

Julie, I'm pretty sure I mentioned this when you talked about spraying w/o a booth - there are VOC's in WB products that are not good to breath; some people get really sick from some of them. A HEPA filter won't stop VOC's, and it'll just plug up anyway with over spray solids. Those exhaust pad filters might not plug up as quickly, but they won't stop the VOC's either. Your proposed solution is really a step backwards. I strongly recommend you think it through, some more, and come up with a plan to blow all of the exhaust outside. If you have a dust collector, it's fan likely has enough cfm to do a good job. That's what I use. Bypass the bags, and install a hose directly from the inlet to the back of your spray booth. Then take another hose from the outlet to your ceiling duct which goes outside. Get rid of that little inline duct filter so it doesn't get slagged up from over spray. No filters required, needed, or wanted - they just slag up and are unnecessary if you duct it outside.

John

[Julie Moriarty]

The exhaust pads arrived today. That was fast! Now I have to see how I'm going to make all this work. I've got a 54" cabinet that has been waiting for a finish so it can become the new cooktop cabinet. I'm more excited about the new cooktop than the cabinet. :D

http://www.multifamilyexecutive.com/Images/tmpC46B.tmp_tcm23-737239.jpg

Maybe this weekend? :) fingers crossed

[Julie Moriarty]

I finally got to test out the "system" today. For as crude as the booth may be, no one has noticed any odors in the house, even when coming in from being outside. That's TOTALLY different than when I've sprayed lacquer out of a can. I noticed a slight amount of spray attaching to the safety goggles, and by the time I was done spraying on a coat, the finish had dried. Removing it left tiny scratches on the lens. I can see going through a few goggles before this project.

It took me a bit to get the hang of the gun controls, remembering which knob did what, but by the second coat I had it down fairly well. What I find the most difficult, is seeing where the spray is covering and how much product the gun is laying down as I'm spraying. Even doing the test on a piece of brown paper, it was hard to tell. I have to get light reflection off the piece to see what is covered and how much.

What I love is how fast this goes and what a nice result I'm seeing. I've got three coats on now and the finish looks great so far. I'll probably do a couple more coats as this is a kitchen cabinet. Having done all the toning tests so far with a foam brush, I'm liking not disturbing the dye and lifting some of it up. Now I see why those of you who know spraying like it so much. There's a lot to like!

[John TenEyck]

Julie, happy to hear the booth is working after a fashion. If you are getting over spray on your goggles there must be a lot of it in the booth, or are you pointing the gun at your head? kidding. Anyway, moving the exhaust to the back of the booth and more cfm would likely fix that problem. Yes, now I see how it's getting on your goggles. Your exhaust fan is straight above your work. You spray and lean over the work, looking down, the exhaust fan is pulling the overspray upwards into your face. Not only is it getting on your goggles, but it's also probably loading up your respirator, too, and maybe giving you a nice facial mask to boot.

Yes, you need a lot of good light in your booth in order to see. I have a double fluorescent in the ceiling right over the work and more would be better.

About spraying more coats - once you have a good film there's really no benefit. Three or four coats is usually sufficient.

John

[Julie Moriarty]

John, the goggle spray is from sticking my head inside the cabinet and hitting the corners. I put a fan at the rear of the booth and managed to exhaust it outside so the air moves much better. But that splashback? I'm learning not to sticking my head in the hurricane. :rolleyes:

I've got (2) 250W quartz lamps and the ceiling cans for light but they are all out of the enclosure, so they have to pass through the plastic sheeting. There isn't enough room to change your mind in there right now because the 54" cabinet owns the place, so the work lights had to stay outside. But the cabinet is done now. So once it dries, it's coming out and I'll have some more room to move. I'll call the house electrician in (I see her often in the mirror ;)) and see what she can come up with.

This is SOOOO much different than what I expected. All my experience with spraying has been either with a compressor powered sprayer and pressure pot or with an airless sprayer. Now I can actually see myself liking finishing. I never thought I'd say that! It wasn't cheap but that Fuji Super3 system does a great job. The only weak link is me but that's quickly changing.

That pile of projects waiting for the finisher to show up will soon be nothing more than a distant memory. :D

[Steve Kohn]

I know what you mean about finishing becoming so much better/easier/faster with a good sprayer. I use a Fuji Q4 system myself. I have to put up plastic sheeting and fans etc. to spray, just like you're talking about. In one way I do things very differently. My shop actually stores a car occasionally so I bought 3 window fans. I mounted them into scrap plywood boxes that hold filters in front of the fan. The fans sit under the partially open garage door and sucks the overspray out. With the door partially open I find that the air come in a the opening at the top, and is pulled straight down and back out of the shop. I also have an overhead air cleaner that blows into the back of the spray booth. the system actually works pretty well, but it takes me about an hour to set up and another hour to take it down.

[John TenEyck]

Steve, as your system proves, there are many ways to skin a cat. But why are you bothering with filters in front of the fans if you're blowing the air outside? All those filters do is plug up with finish particles and reduce your flow. WB won't hurt the fans and if you're not using WB you're in trouble filters or not. Nix the filters and save some money and time.

John

[Julie Moriarty]

I would think over time the spray would build up on the fan blades reducing efficiency and putting additional load on the motor. If the spray doesn't coat the blades evenly, after some time it will create an imbalance. So I get filters in front of the fan. I bought some paint booth exhaust pads and they are installed in front of the fans. It may not catch all the overspray but I'm guessing they catch an awful lot.

Steve, that comment about how long it takes to set up the spray booth has me wondering if I'll just leave mine up until we have a party or guests that might want to use the dart board the booth is blocking. Mine probably takes 30 minutes but that's with some help. Help is not always easy to get around here. :rolleyes: But I like the garage idea. Seems like a nice design.

[Steve Kohn]

I'll warn you these pictures aren't pretty but since I've retired the shop is used almost daily. And cleaning is not a real priority. He are some snapshots of what I've got. The plastic sheeting is 6 mil construction plastic, held up by tarp hangers from HF. I added cable above the door tracks because the tracks were too low. This allowed overspray to escape. I use the filters to keep the el cheapo window fans (there are two motors and blades in each fan) as isolated as possible. The fans were Menards specials at $14.95 each. I throw a 7X9 canvas painters cloth on the floor to catch drips etc. I've also added two lights above the booth area. They are only on when I'm painting. The cart is one of two that I use to paint on. They are also my assembly tables. It's nice if your working a big project. You can simply leave the project on the cart and move it in and out of the booth. If you have any other suggestions, comments, or questions let me know.


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[John TenEyck]

Cheap fans cost about $15. You'll spend more than that on filters - probably already did - and they clog up anyway. The fans last a long, long time regardless of what little accumulation they pick up. If they are far enough away the WB is dry and doesn't stick anyway, it just gets blown outside as dust. BTW, if the fans move less air they will draw less power, not more.

John