2 by 4 semi-nightmare:(

[David Cramer]

Hello:)

Where do you guys and gals get your 2 by 4's, straight ones, for building a bench. I get warped ones after warped ones after warped ones. If you joint them straight, it seems to "unlock" the moisture and they get worse. Any one have a special secret? Thanks!

David

[David Wong]

You will probably have better luck ripping down larger lumber such as a 2 x 12. I purchased some 4 x 6's at a Borg, that were reasonably straight, and almost FOHC. I haunted the Borg for months waiting for a good load of lumber to be available. After purchasing, I let the lumber sit in my garage for 9 months waiting for the moisture content to come down. I do not have a moisture meter, so I simply weighed the boards and waited for the weight to stabilize. Only then, did I mill the lumber.

If you are insisting on 2 x 4's, you can try a good lumberyard and ask for #1 kiln dry studs. I have had good luck with the few pieces I have purchased, though some pieces had quite a bit of wane.

[Joe Angrisani]

Where do you guys and gals get your 2 by 4's, straight ones, for building a bench. I get warped ones after warped ones after warped ones. If you joint them straight, it seems to "unlock" the moisture and they get worse. Any one have a special secret?....

Half the battle when dealing with Borg lumber is in the selection. Look at the ends when picking through the pile. For starters, skip anything that shows the center of the tree (it's never going to stop moving). The most stable boards would be quartersawn or riftsawn. As the growth rings tend to flatsawn, stability suffers. When building a bench, I'd take the time to find nothing but quartersawn boards.

Once a board passes the cut "test", take only boards with fine knots or no knots.

Finally, once they're home, sticker them with good spacing and let them dry for a couple months before doing anything with them. Can't force time.

[Sam Stephens]

I'll 2nd both comments -2x10's and 2x 12's (12' + length) are much straighter than the 2x4's. The heavy boards are still a bit wet and need to lay out for a month or so before starting. A lot of the "dry" boards have been picked over for a reason. Dig through the stack to get what you want, which sometimes means going to a couple of borgs.

[Bruce Wrenn]

First, borg's don't generally stock Douglas fir in anything other than studs, which are the culls of the lumber world. You will want either straight grained Douglas Fir, or rip what you need from "carefully chosen" SYP 2 X 8's or 2 X 10's.

[Mike Raehl]

I needed one straight 2X4 yesterday and was picking through the pile at the local big box. When I asked the store lumber rep if these were the best 2X4's he had since I needed a straight one, he jokingly responded that they don't sell any "straight" 2X4's. He was right. Fortunately, just down the aisle I found a pallet of very nice 2X6's, much lighter in weight, straight and mostly knot free. I re-sawed one to what I needed.

[Stephen Cherry]

I find that if I go to the deepo, I can rumage through the pile of non pressure treated 4x4's and come up with some good ones, with the grain aligned parallel with two faces. Takes a while though to pick through. If I were building a bench though, I'd start checking the craigslist materials for hardwood. If you use a little imagination, great solutions will pop up.

[Steve Meliza]

The availability of Doug Fir depends on where you live. I can't find SYP around here, but all of the BORGs have Doug Fir in a wide variety of sizes, most of it green though. Monday after work I'll be stopping by a real lumber yard to select some kiln dried 2x12's that are 16' long. I hope to be able to find some straight ones in the 620 that they have in stock. Some will be cut down to 2x4 size because that's what you have to do to get a straight 2x4 sized Doug Fir board.

[Mark Bolton]

A second for the fact that Doug. Fir is completely dependent on your location. Same with SYP. In the east much of the time you'll find spruce across the board.

I have to add though that going to a place like the home center, or any lumber yard for that matter, and making a mess of the lumber isle, a nightmare for the staff, and ultimately still winding up with a product you'll be unhappy with is a little crazy. Trying to find "cabinet grade" 2x4's in a lift of #2 framing lumber creates nothing but chaos. If your wanting perfect material you simply have to pay for it. As mentioned, find a lift of larger material you can rip from. Or better yet do the right thing and order the material you want and be willing to pay the premium for it.

I am a full supporter of yards (never happen the home centers of course) that dont allow individuals to tear apart an entire unit for a dozen sticks. Thats most often what your getting at the home center anyway, the staff goes in at night and neatly re-stacks all but the very worst material.

Virtually 100% of this material is perfectly acceptable for its intended use, framing. The bad stuff gets used up for blocking. Tearing through 200 pcs. to find the prize 12 is like walking around a lot full of Yugo's searching for a Mercedes.

[Jaromir Svoboda]

I build work bench for garage last year, went to orange BORG and get few 2 x 12.They were Doug fir , quarter saw nice clean and strait. I let them sit in shop for 3 or 4 months. Looks really good.

[Robert Payne]

I hate to suggest this but perhaps I'm a bit of a purist. IMHO, woodworking benches should be made of hardwood. If you still want to use softwood, use quality southern yellow pine.

[Jim Andrew]

For straight 2x4's you have to sort. Then get them used immediately upon getting them to your shop. They have too much moisture to stay straight. Doug fir are the best 2x4's and also other lumber, but in my part of the country, you are lucky to find Hem-fir. Most of the lumber is SPF, which is spruce. There is maybe one fir board in 1000.

[Joe Angrisani]

I hate to suggest this but perhaps I'm a bit of a purist. IMHO, woodworking benches should be made of hardwood. If you still want to use softwood, use quality southern yellow pine.

SYP is a regional thing, Robert. In the majority of western states, the softwood is going to be Douglas Fir. I have never seen Southern Yellow Pine in 20+ years of buying lumber in Colorado. If you live out west and want to build a bench that's a bit softer than your projects (that's the reason many of us say No to hardwood benches), it's going to be DougFir.



I have to add though that going to a place like the home center....and making a mess of the lumber isle....and ultimately still winding up with a product you'll be unhappy with is a little crazy. Trying to find "cabinet grade" 2x4's in a lift of #2 framing lumber creates nothing but chaos......

......Tearing through 200 pcs. to find the prize 12 is like walking around a lot full of Yugo's searching for a Mercedes.

Who said anything about making a mess in the lumber aisle(our Borgs don't have the wood on islands)? If I have to sort through the 2x4s a bit, I pull from the back and repile at the front. Ultimately, I am happy with it for the purpose I'm seeking. Throughout your post you exaggerate. He's not looking for "cabinet-grade" wood. He's looking for something suitable for a bench top. As said, no one's advocating making a mess. No one is "tearing through" "200 pieces for 12". And "prize 12", no less. There's three exaggerations in the first half of ONE sentence.

And to run with your Yugo theme: If your town doesn't have a Mercedes dealership, and you know there are Mercedes in the Yugo lot, why not spend a few minutes seeking the Mercedes instead of the pithy or knot-laden boards?

[Joe Angrisani]

For straight 2x4's you have to sort. Then get them used immediately upon getting them to your shop. They have too much moisture to stay straight.....

Your thinking is reversed. Wood must dry before there's any hope of staying straight. Picking boards cut the right way minimizes changes as it dries. But it's gotta dry before you have any hope of stability.

[Mark Bolton]

Who said anything about making a mess in the lumber aisle

If you go to any lumber yard, home center included, and light heartedly ask one of the employees to recount the times they have either sat and watched, or had to stop, someone from going through each and every stick to get a few I can almost guarantee you you will be in for a lengthy, and likely very funny, conversation. Every single lumberyard I have dealt with in my adult life has made mention of the guys who sit out in the yard (or in the isle in this case) picking, and picking, and picking. Rolling every stick for crown, twist, bow, and so on. These are likely the guys who called a dozen yards before they left the house to find who had the cheapest price. After they've, neatly or messily, exhausted a third of a unit that was sitting on the ground, they hunt someone up to get a fresh one down. Little do they know the pretty ones that come out of the freshly cut unit will look just like the 100 they just set aside in a few days or weeks.

In my teens I worked in a lumber yard and we would routinely tease the customers asking them "what are you making? Kitchen cabinets?". Before I moved on (perhaps 1985-6) customers were no longer allowed in the yard unattended for that very reason. Like I said, will never happen in the home centers but Ill bet at some point they will start calling a manager over and being a little less accommodating.

Dont take it personal. Its just the simple fact that this material is "not that material". Its rough framing lumber, period. Trying to find boards with four clean edges, no bow, no twist, no wain, is simply not in the grading spec for this lumber. Its just not. As my pun states, it would be like walking on the lot with the cash in pocket for a Yugo and thinking you should be getting the quality of a Mercedes. If I want quality I get the lumber I need whether its a 2x6 which I rip to a clean 2x4 when necessary or I whatever. When I walk up to the unit of 2x4's at the yard Im buying them for their intended use, and unless I see a really really really bad one, I just take the first ones I grab and load them on the truck.

As the OP stated, no matter what you do to them, they are going to do what they want to do. This is because its not the correct material for the job. The correct material unfortunately costs substantially more.

[johnny means]

For the best 2x4s, skip the 2x4s and walk down to the 4x4s.

[Greg Portland]

Hello:)

Where do you guys and gals get your 2 by 4's, straight ones, for building a bench. I get warped ones after warped ones after warped ones. If you joint them straight, it seems to "unlock" the moisture and they get worse. Any one have a special secret? Thanks!

DavidGet engineered lumber, some quality plywood and build your table as 4 torsion boxes (top, 2 legs, 1 stretcher). Fill the legs with sand if you want more weight.

[Joe Angrisani]

Good points, Mark.



For the best 2x4s, skip the 2x4s and walk down to the 4x4s.

Just make sure they're riftsawn and they aren't the pithy centers of the tree. Seems most of the 4x4s and 4x6s are anymore.

Don't the best 2x4s hide in the 2x8s....?

[Kevin Groenke]

If you go to any lumber yard, home center included, and light heartedly ask one of the employees to recount the times they have either sat and watched, or had to stop, someone from going through each and every stick to get a few I can almost guarantee you you will be in for a lengthy, and likely very funny, conversation.

In my teens I worked in a lumber yard and we would routinely tease the customers asking them "what are you making? Kitchen cabinets?". Before I moved on (perhaps 1985-6) customers were no longer allowed in the yard unattended for that very reason. Like I said, will never happen in the home centers but Ill bet at some point they will start calling a manager over and being a little less accommodating.

Dont take it personal. Its just the simple fact that this material is "not that material". Its rough framing lumber, period.

As the OP stated, no matter what you do to them, they are going to do what they want to do. This is because its not the correct material for the job. The correct material unfortunately costs substantially more.


Whoa Mark, chill dude.

If I want to dig through a unit of lumber it's my business (as long as I abide by the yard's policy). I do so regularly and routinely find Mercedes' in Yugo lots (some fantastic curly maple toward the bottom of a pile of common just the other day coincidentally). I've done several built in's in clear, fine & straight grain D.Fir that was culled from the stacks of 2x8 & 2x10's at my local Menards. I always leave stacks neater and tighter than I find them and I'm not going to ask a yardman to pull another unit for me unless they need another one out. Since I care about what I build with, I grain-match stock and optimize my cut list, whoever the heck is working at the yard couldn't care less so I pick out all of my own material. If I was buying more than a 500 bdft/year it might be a different story but I'm not.

[Kevin Stricker]

SYP is a regional thing, Robert. In the majority of western states, the softwood is going to be Douglas Fir. I have never seen Southern Yellow Pine in 20+ years of buying lumber in Colorado. If you live out west and want to build a bench that's a bit softer than your projects (that's the reason many of us say No to hardwood benches), it's going to be DougFir.

Joe, you need to look a little harder. Every Home Depot and every other lumber yard in the state has SYP, it just happens to be treated. As for ripping down 2x12 stock, you will be able to get a couple 2x4's out of it that MIGHT not move as soon as you cut it, but only if you wait 6 months and pray daily. Re sawing construction lumber is an exercise in futility. I do it all the time but only because I end up with lots of scraps from remodeling jobs. I just spent 2 hours today planing down 2x and 4x stock, out of the 50 or so boards I s4s'ed I am hopeful I can use 20 or so to rebuild my sons train table and may get 10 good ones to use for other projects, the rest will warp and end up in the wood stove. Those had been drying in my shed for 6 months to a year too BTW.

[Lawrence Tarnoff]

I find the Borg's premium pine dimension lumber just as difficult in terms of finding straight boards. I have better luck at Menards. Toobies at the Borg have more curve than my bride.

[Joe Angrisani]

Joe, you need to look a little harder. Every Home Depot and every other lumber yard in the state has SYP, it just happens to be treated.

Different animal. I don't consider pressure treated to be the same as construction lumber. I'd never build a bench top out of treated lumber.



As for ripping down 2x12 stock, you will be able to get a couple 2x4's out of it that MIGHT not move as soon as you cut it, but only if you wait 6 months and pray daily. Re sawing construction lumber is an exercise in futility. I do it all the time but only because I end up with lots of scraps from remodeling jobs. I just spent 2 hours today planing down 2x and 4x stock, out of the 50 or so boards I s4s'ed I am hopeful I can use 20 or so to rebuild my sons train table and may get 10 good ones to use for other projects, the rest will warp and end up in the wood stove. Those had been drying in my shed for 6 months to a year too BTW.

It all comes down (AGAIN) to picking the right boards. Flatsawn stuff will curl. Knot-laden stuff will kink. Anything with the center of the tree will do who-knows-what. I've got 4 or 5 leftover quartersawn 2x4s in the woodpile from some forgotten purchase a couple years back. They're straight and good for just about anything. Looking around, I see a garden sifter I made leaning against the shed out in the weather. Three years later (plain construction lumber and out in the sun and rain) and the frame is still straight and square - including the 5-1/2 foot long "stiles" that extend to form the handles. I attribute this to the 2x4s being quartersawn, not some magic stroke of luck.

[Mark Bolton]

it's my business

Like you say, its the yards policy, not anyone's desire. It goes without saying, different areas, different yards, your relationship with an individual yard, and so on. Ive merely been saying that there is a specific reason why most yards wont leave customers unattended, and why in the vast majority of places its the norm and it has nothing to do with theft. The yard I referenced when I was a teen use to operate with an entrance and exit gate. You entered the yard, placed your order at the counter, and went into the yard and filled your own order. We would spend endless hours cleaning up the yard while picking commercial orders. While you may be very courteous and clean its simply was, and still is, not the norm.

We've all done it, built something decent out of framing lumber and of course with careful selection, a bit of drying/acclimation, and so on, and so on... The simple fact is this materail regardless of KD, HT, S-Dry, is all dried to 19%, shipped on open trucks, rained on, and often stored outside for a good part of its life before your purchase. Its a roll of the dice. But we all do what we want.

Your curly maple reference made me think. We all find the Mercedes in the Yugo lot. Its pretty common for me to sort a hundred feet or so of nicely figured material out of a unit of #1C hard maple for drawer stock. This doesnt mean when I walk into my supplier needing figured maple they are going to let me tear apart a unit of #1C when they have figured material in another rack just because Im cheap. There answer should be, and will be, no.

With regards to the OP the real sad part about this is there use to be yards that would carry some material appropriate for a modest bench build or other project where for a bit more, not an arm and a leg, you could step up a grade or two, though many would still want to pick rather than pay for the higher grade. It less and less common now. Unfortunately its either sorting through framing material thats junk anyway or paying for KD hardwood that is likely far more that the OP was looking for.

[Michael W. Clark]

I'll present a little different side of the coin. I built a bench out of 2x4s about 8 years ago. I bought "straight" 12 footers, cut them in half (length wise), and ripped off both of the short edges to get rid of the radius's. These were readilly available with minimal sorting. I then stood them on edge and glued and screwed them together. I sanded it flat with a belt sander, top and bottom, then put danish oil on the top.

After 8 years, the top has moved some and needs to be flattened (the bottom is still flat though?). I hate to do it as I kind of like the patina and scars (character) on it. So one thought, is to know that it is going to move some and plan on flattening it at some point. This may even be an issue if you had a $$ hardwood bench and moved it to a different climate? I actually like the softer wood as it does not scuff up my project pieces after they have been sanded. If I had it to do over again, I would omit the screws and use better clamps, biscuits, splines, etc. The screws limit where you can put holes.

Mike

[Joe Shinall]

Unfortunately the only straight ones I ever get are treated. I just built an outfeed table for my Unisaw last weekend that doubles as an extra workbench. I spent a solid 30 minutes weeding through non treated 2x4's just to find 8 straight ones. I had almost an entire stack moved to the side. They were still not "perfect", but I jointed and planed them just enough to get them square. Ended up with 1 1/8 x 3's and a lot of sawdust but it worked.

[Mark Bolton]

Ended up with 1 1/8 x 3's and a lot of sawdust but it worked.

So just for the heck of it, if the lumber yard had some inventory on a similar product, KD, reasonably straight, clean and clear, would you have paid perhaps 3x-4x the cost? Say a 2x4 that ran $12 each?

[John Sanford]

Who said anything about making a mess in the lumber aisle(our Borgs don't have the wood on islands)? Mine does. I hate it when the beavers are awake, I always have to fight them off to keep my lumber. And don't get me started about the woodchucks....

[Joe Shinall]

So just for the heck of it, if the lumber yard had some inventory on a similar product, KD, reasonably straight, clean and clear, would you have paid perhaps 3x-4x the cost? Say a 2x4 that ran $12 each?

Nope, I didn't mind the work to put into it. I wanted and needed a cheap table so that's why I built it. I'm not a big fan of paying a ton for hardwood or "great" lumber for a simple shop project. For one, I don't have the money sitting around, and 2, I don't have the time to put into making it look nice enough to justify the cost. It looks like a lot of 2x4's with a MDF/hardwood top and that's exactly what it is, but it's straight and flat as a new dollar bill.

Pine is pine and pine is not worth $12 for a 2x4. They have cedar 2x4's at HD for $12. 10 footers. Also not straight...:rolleyes:

[Joe Shinall]

First picture is finished table minus dog holes I will add and one more vise. Second picture is setup as an outfeed table but was before I edgbanded.

Entire thing, including casters, 2x4's, MDF, Hardwood, screws, vises, and edgebanding was less than $200. MDF and vises were the majority of the budget.



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[Howard Acheson]

2 x 4's are what are known as "construction lumber". It's only minimally dried and will have a tendency to warp as they dry further. This isn't a problem when they are used for construction building, but can be problematic when used for furniture or precision shop furniture.

The best you can do is to look for the straightest you can find and then stack and sticker them in your shop until the dry completely.