No tree is safe! Woodhauler modifications now complete!

[Roger Chandler]

In our unending endeavors to acquire wood for turning, we woodturners have to become innovative in our approach. While we hobbyists are by no means in the logging business, we still have to find ways to accommodate our need for acquisition of wood to put on the lathe.

In my previous thread about 3 weeks ago, I showed the trailer I got for hauling things.....especially wood for turning! I had gone through several ideas and dismissed some, and kept some of them, and finally settled on this design [of my own] for a lifting arch and winch setup to save the back.

Below you will see pics of the arch, and the mods made to the trailer. I decided, as I usually do, that if I was going to do this, I was going to do it right, so instead of makeshifting some wood, I decided to take my design to the steel fabricators who know how to weld beautifully and have all the materials necessary for this.......a few bucks up front, but a sturdy and well done modification that will last as long as the trailer itself.

We begin with the plate added to the tongue of the trailer with a battery box, and a hitch reciever for the winch setup.

257876257877 then, you will see the receiver's that were welded in place to receive the arch frame...this is removable when I want to use the trailer for things where I do not need lift.

257878257879 next, you see pics of the arch laying on the trailer bed, and in the receivers.

257880257881 Next, you can see the winch [rated 3000lbs.] and pulley which hooks to the loop I had welded on the arch. Since the weight load of this trailer is basically 3500 lbs. then I will have to be careful not to overload it.......afterall, I am not logging, just getting turning wood! :D The trailer will take a 10 ft. log, but I will limit them to 8 ft long, and go shorter if the log is particularly big or heavy........maybe if they are heavy, just get a couple at a time.

257882257883 I will continue this on the next post.......a couple more pics........

[Roger Chandler]

Okay, to continue......

Here is a pic of the log tongs....will take a log up to 32" in diameter.......257884 then a pic of the top of the arch....extra loops welded onto the arch frame, so I can hook up ratchet strap on both sides if I ever want to to carry some tall items, and strap them in, or even to put tension against the frame to offset the pull of a larger log, or machine, if it should be needed.

257885 and last, a pic of the handheld remote for the winch......it will reach all the way to the rear of the trailer. 257886

I posted this in order to give others a view of what I have done and give them ideas for modifications on their wood haulers. Now I also had the center post on the trailer rail cut out, and moved to the side, and another welded to the other side of the front to leave a space where I could use the winch cable without the arch to pull a mower or other item onto the trailer without the arch, if I needed. I tried to think this modification through before committing it to the welders........let me know.......what do you think about this design?

[Keith Outten]

Roger,

Fantastic job on the trailer mods. I'm glad you decided to use a welding fabricator, the trailer will be much safer to use and last a lifetime.
.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger,

Fantastic job on the trailer mods. I'm glad you decided to use a welding fabricator, the trailer will be much safer to use and last a lifetime.
.

Glad you like them Keith.......I got some of my ideas from your post in the previous discussion we had......thanks for the pics you posted and comments....they were helpful!

[Thom Sturgill]

Looks to me that it should do a fine job and you did a good engineering job designing it. Most of the force on the arch is vertical right to the frame. The lateral force is maybe 30% of the total based on how far out of vertical the pully is. Worst case, you might want to design braces to carry that force, but I really doubt that it would be needed considering the 3500# limit on the trailer.

[Roger Chandler]

Looks to me that it should do a fine job and you did a good engineering job designing it. Most of the force on the arch is vertical right to the frame. The lateral force is maybe 30% of the total based on how far out of vertical the pully is. Worst case, you might want to design braces to carry that force, but I really doubt that it would be needed considering the 3500# limit on the trailer.

That lateral load is precisely why the loops are on the arch and on the tongue.......ratchet straps if needed to offset that lateral force.........I tried to consider all that in the design, but did not want permanently welded braces for that, because I wanted to be able to remove the arch when not used.

[charlie knighton]

looks good Roger, get your wood before the sap starts rising

[Greg Bender]

Roger,
two thumbs up on design and execution. I like the use of receivers to hold the verticals. What do you lay on the tailgate to protect the expanded metal when your dragging a log onto the trailer. Real nice job on that battery box. Have fun with that setup.
Greg

[Jerry Marcantel]

Roger, beautiful job on your hauler. Well thought out except for one thing and you asked for input. ... Picture 7 shows the cable coming out of the drum onto the top guide roller, which looks like it's about 1"od. The cable then shoots up at about a 70+ degree angle until it reachs the pulley. It's been my experience with cable that that 1"? od guide roller and with the particular cable you have, it's going to cause the cable to curl when you put stress or a load on it as it rolls off the guide rollers. If I had done this, I would have had the winch mounted where the cable comes straight out of the winch up to the pulley. If your winch had come with avaition type cable, finer wire with apposing twisted strands which gives your cable more flexibility, your current setup might be ok.
Is it possible to post a good clear closeup of the cable because you might already have better cable than what it looks like.
This observation comes from my days in the Army as a heavey equipment operator using Dozers with cable operated systems. The days before hydraulics were common on dozers. All pulleys were mounted on pivots, and all cables came straight out of the drum until it reached the pulley.... . ........... Jerry

[Thom Sturgill]

Gotcha! I thought they were for strapping something to the arch. My thought was removable braces that would bolt/pin but the straps work too!

[Richard Coers]

Do you have any extra reinforcement in that rail around the trailer by the arch mount? At a minimum, I would add another angle back to back with it to increase the cross section. Looks nice! Ever heard the word parbuckling? Logs really like to roll easily when you loop the cable around them. You are going to be able to haul WAY MORE wood than you can turn!

[Steve Doerr]

Roger,
What a GREAT design. As an individual that had back surgery 8 years ago and will be 65 in a few months anything that can save the back is well worth the investment. When I retired a couple of years ago I bought a pickup so that I could haul my lumber. I have the ramps, chains and a hand wench but have been struggling with ideas on how to get the cable at the right elevation to get the large logs in the truck. After looking at your set up, I think I can do something similar to your arch and pulley that will work for me. It's amazing as we get old how we rely more and more on our brains and less on our muscles to do the hard work. Thanks for sharing and happy hauling and turning.
Steve

[Rob Wachala Jr]

Ok, I'm jealous ;) I continually see downed trees on craigslist, but nothing to pick haul them back to my house. Last week there was one guy that cleared some property was absolute huge piles of large logs up for grabs. Easily enough to keep me turning for years.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Looks great Roger and looks like it will work. I am looking at mounting one of those HF swing arms with a electric winch on it. A friend of mine and I have some plans drawn up for it. Hopefully we can get it done this summer time permitting.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger,
two thumbs up on design and execution. I like the use of receivers to hold the verticals. What do you lay on the tailgate to protect the expanded metal when your dragging a log onto the trailer. Real nice job on that battery box. Have fun with that setup.
Greg

Greg........I will probably cut a piece of 1/2" plywood and wire it to the frame of the tailgate..........just to be on the safe side a little!

[Roger Chandler]

Do you have any extra reinforcement in that rail around the trailer by the arch mount? At a minimum, I would add another angle back to back with it to increase the cross section. Looks nice! Ever heard the word parbuckling? Logs really like to roll easily when you loop the cable around them. You are going to be able to haul WAY MORE wood than you can turn!

Richard..........the receivers are welded to both the tongue beams and also to the rail.........they are really solid........that being said, the loops to attach a ratchet strap to both sides of the arch and the tongue beams will give me lateral tension against the weight of any forward pull of any log.......the weight of the log itself will be carried by the arch and onto the beams of the tongue..........about as good as I could design it.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, beautiful job on your hauler. Well thought out except for one thing and you asked for input. ... Picture 7 shows the cable coming out of the drum onto the top guide roller, which looks like it's about 1"od. The cable then shoots up at about a 70+ degree angle until it reachs the pulley. It's been my experience with cable that that 1"? od guide roller and with the particular cable you have, it's going to cause the cable to curl when you put stress or a load on it as it rolls off the guide rollers. If I had done this, I would have had the winch mounted where the cable comes straight out of the winch up to the pulley. If your winch had come with avaition type cable, finer wire with apposing twisted strands which gives your cable more flexibility, your current setup might be ok.
Is it possible to post a good clear closeup of the cable because you might already have better cable than what it looks like.
This observation comes from my days in the Army as a heavey equipment operator using Dozers with cable operated systems. The days before hydraulics were common on dozers. All pulleys were mounted on pivots, and all cables came straight out of the drum until it reached the pulley.... . ........... Jerry


Jerry........it is aircraft cable..........I have never had a winch cable do what you are referring to............I think this will be fine.

[John Spitters]

Roger and I can see that you put a lot of time in thought, energy and $$$ into this, but you may well find problems in this setup. Let me clarify, first off your front overarm support for the cable snatch block, should have been built to the full width of your trailer and mounted to the outside of your rails. the front receivers can still be located at the front corners but then what you could have done is mounted a second set of receivers at the back corners of your trailer, these receivers would have the ability to pivot so that your overhead cross arm can now be located at the back as well and will have the ability to pivot. When pulling a heavy log onto the trailer you would use your tongs with a short section of chain to attach it to the swing arm in a lowered position, your cable from the winch would attach to the swing arm itself, this way when you begin to pull the log onto the trailer the swing arm will lift the log as it advances forward. Then once the end of the log is on the back of the trailer you would move your over arm assembly to the forward position on the trailer attach the cable back to the tongs and pull your log the rest of the ways on to the trailer deck. But in order for this to work you would also need to attach a set of drop legs on the back corners of your trailer, regardless you may still need to do this even with how your trailer is now set up.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger and I can see that you put a lot of time in thought, energy and $$$ into this, but you may well find problems in this setup. Let me clarify, first off your front overarm support for the cable snatch block, should have been built to the full width of your trailer and mounted to the outside of your rails. the front receivers can still be located at the front corners but then what you could have done is mounted a second set of receivers at the back corners of your trailer, these receivers would have the ability to pivot so that your overhead cross arm can now be located at the back as well and will have the ability to pivot. When pulling a heavy log onto the trailer you would use your tongs with a short section of chain to attach it to the swing arm in a lowered position, your cable from the winch would attach to the swing arm itself, this way when you begin to pull the log onto the trailer the swing arm will lift the log as it advances forward. Then once the end of the log is on the back of the trailer you would move your over arm assembly to the forward position on the trailer attach the cable back to the tongs and pull your log the rest of the ways on to the trailer deck. But in order for this to work you would also need to attach a set of drop legs on the back corners of your trailer, regardless you may still need to do this even with how your trailer is now set up.


John.......I actually considered the very thing you are suggesting...........thought it was overkill for what I am wanting to do or likely to do........what I have done is a SIMPLE modification that will do what I envision........While your idea there is a viable one........I saw something similar online with Jeff Nicols urban woodhauler, but decided that I did not want to go to that level....

There are numerous mods that can be made/conceived...........not all of them were right for me...........I do see the possibilities with being able to put your cross bar on the tail of the trailer.........I am going to use this trailer for a lot more than just getting wood, so I thought what I did was the best compromise for all that I will be doing with it.

Thanks for your reply.......it was good! BTW......I do have an understanding with the owner of the steel fabricators that if I want to make additional modifications in the future, all I have to do is bring it back and I can add on to what I have done......I don't think it is likely however, but I did cover that base in case I need it in the future.

[Harvey M. Taylor]

I did what Bernie said he was going to do. The swing-arm and electric winch from Harbor freight , about 125.00 parts total saved me from lots of fabricating.Max

[Roger Chandler]

I did what Bernie said he was going to do. The swing-arm and electric winch from Harbor freight , about 125.00 parts total saved me from lots of fabricating.Max

How much weight will your swing arm hoist handle and how long a log, Max?

[Ronald Blue]

Looks good Roger. One suggestion is if you haven't already done is to have a second snatch block to make things happen slower and double the pulling power. It will also lighten the load on the winch and mount. I think it will work well either way. The key is you will be the one using and operating the controls and you will quickly develop a feel for what is right and what isn't. Post some pics of the first big "haul".

[Roger Chandler]

Looks good Roger. One suggestion is if you haven't already done is to have a second snatch block to make things happen slower and double the pulling power. It will also lighten the load on the winch and mount. I think it will work well either way. The key is you will be the one using and operating the controls and you will quickly develop a feel for what is right and what isn't. Post some pics of the first big "haul".

Where in the line would you place the second snatch block, as you suggested?

[Lloyd Butler]

Great looking rig Roger.

I would see if I could find a roller stand head o two and build a couple of plug in roller bars to go across the very back of the trailer so that the load would roll on rather than drag on. When you are done, just pull them off and toss them onto the trailer or back of the truck. It would save the trail gate surface of your trailer over time.

Lloyd

[Roger Chandler]

Great looking rig Roger.

I would see if I could find a roller stand head o two and build a couple of plug in roller bars to go across the very back of the trailer so that the load would roll on rather than drag on. When you are done, just pull them off and toss them onto the trailer or back of the truck. It would save the trail gate surface of your trailer over time.

Lloyd

the point of the arch was to provide lift over the rear edge of the trailer......I think I will have adequate clearance....also had considered placing a couple of 2x10's over the tailgate [I have a couple with ramp ends bolted on them] to aid in ease of sliding them onto the trailer.

[Dennis Nagle]

Very very cool. I'd love to have something like this. Right now I am throwing wood into the back of my minivan. Do you have a cost breakdown?? Good job.

[Bernie Weishapl]

How much weight will your swing arm hoist handle and how long a log, Max?

Roger the crane I was looking at says 1/2 ton capacity.

[Roger Chandler]

Very very cool. I'd love to have something like this. Right now I am throwing wood into the back of my minivan. Do you have a cost breakdown?? Good job.

the mods ran about $325 then the cost of the winch and battery........another $245

[David C. Roseman]

Love this, Roger! Great design and execution!

Bet you're already working on your next project: Coming up with a way to get those monster logs off the trailer once you get them home. :)

David

[Roger Chandler]

Love this, Roger! Great design and execution!

Bet you're already working on your next project: Coming up with a way to get those monster logs off the trailer once you get them home. :)

David

I have that covered, David.......ATV with winch and chain.......also thought about a chain hoist on a large tree limb....back up the trailer and hook the chain to it......even could use the winch on my ATV with another snatchblock pulley chained to the limb.....several ways I can think of.........maybe an A-frame ........I have to be careful here.....I don't want to clutter the yard up too much! :D:D:rolleyes:

[Roger Chandler]

Very very cool. I'd love to have something like this. Right now I am throwing wood into the back of my minivan. Do you have a cost breakdown?? Good job.

Geez Dennis.....with that newly acquired monster Oliver lathe you just got.........well you will need a truck for sure instead of a mini van.....:eek:....talk about the Vortex! :rolleyes::D

[Ronald Blue]

You would simply double the line back and secure the "dead" end hook at anchor point such as your top cross bar. You might will like the results I think. How many feet of cable does your winch spool?

[Roger Chandler]

You would simply double the line back and secure the "dead" end hook at anchor point such as your top cross bar. You might will like the results I think. How many feet of cable does your winch spool?

That particular winch has 40 ft. of cable.

[Dennis Nagle]

Geez Dennis.....with that newly acquired monster Oliver lathe you just got.........well you will need a truck for sure instead of a mini van.....:eek:....talk about the Vortex! :rolleyes::D

No kidding Roger. That has been on my mind more than you might think. That is why this trailer is so intriguing I could see the same type setup in a pickup bed.

I use to drag 44 foot long Doug fir off of Mt Hood. They averaged 4 feet on the butt end. I can tell you from experience, this trailer will pull any log on board with no problem. It is not lifting, so the weight is greatly reduced.

A lifting arm would be a totally different story.

[Keith Outten]

Roger,

Given the experience I have had with my load hauler trailer I'm sure your design is solid and should do the job easily. Your vertical rack is probably twice as strong as my design, with the uprights welded to the frame and the additional feature that uses the straps to reinforce the longitudinal pulling force no doubt your design will probably over load your trailer if your not careful :)

A couple years ago I purchased a second road trailer and mounted my welding machine on it, hope to remove all four of the corner posts soon and replace them with receiver tube so I can have a removable upper rack system. When the rack isn't installed I can use the corner posts to mount a vise, metal benders and a host of other tools. I may use a derivative of your design to modify the upper rack so I can load long lengths of pipe and other heavy objects. Recently I have started drilling holes through the tube and welding nuts to the receivers so I can use two T-bolts and tighten up the fit so the receivers don't rattle.
.

[Richard Jones]

Really nice, Roger. Hope this will mean less cutting in the woods. Just haul it home and buck it at your leisure.

So, how much are you selling them for? :)

[Roger Chandler]

Roger,

Given the experience I have had with my load hauler trailer I'm sure your design is solid and should do the job easily. Your vertical rack is probably twice as strong as my design, with the uprights welded to the frame and the additional feature that uses the straps to reinforce the longitudinal pulling force no doubt your design will probably over load your trailer if your not careful :)

A couple years ago I purchased a second road trailer and mounted my welding machine on it, hope to remove all four of the corner posts soon and replace them with receiver tube so I can have a removable upper rack system. When the rack isn't installed I can use the corner posts to mount a vise, metal benders and a host of other tools. I may use a derivative of your design to modify the upper rack so I can load long lengths of pipe and other heavy objects. Recently I have started drilling holes through the tube and welding nuts to the receivers so I can use two T-bolts and tighten up the fit so the receivers don't rattle.
.

Keith......you have some neat ideas here! I could see maybe doing the corner posts with receivers and upper racks.........IF I needed them! I have to be careful.......this possibility thing could get out of hand real easy for me! ;) I can see all kinds of possibilities.......but I need to remember the parameters of my time and stay focused on my priorities.......although, I have been known to build a deck or re-plumb a house, or remodel a kitchen or bath........put a roof on...........hummmm........maybe I do need to make all these modifications you are speaking of! :eek::eek::eek::D

[Roger Chandler]

Really nice, Roger. Hope this will mean less cutting in the woods. Just haul it home and buck it at your leisure.

So, how much are you selling them for? :)

Well Richard........I have contemplated purchasing a welder a few times...:cool:...........hummmm........:rolleyes:. .......no........must resist temptation, must resist temptation! I love stuff like this..........If I keep this up, I will never find time to turn wood! :eek: Sometimes a guy just has to stick to priorities! ;)

I may need Jeff Nicols to give me a call and get my head out of the clouds and my feet back on the ground! :rolleyes:

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Hey Roger,
I am sure no wood is safe from you and your great contraption but your back will feel a whole lot safer.
faust

[David C. Roseman]

Roger wrote:

Well Richard........I have contemplated purchasing a welder a few times...:cool:...........hummmm........:rolleyes:. .......no........must resist temptation, must resist temptation! I love stuff like this..........If I keep this up, I will never find time to turn wood! :eek: Sometimes a guy just has to stick to priorities! ;)

I may need Jeff Nicols to give me a call and get my head out of the clouds and my feet back on the ground! :rolleyes:

I don't mean to fan the flames, Roger, but I can assure you that, like any good tool, a MIG welder will pay for itself the first time you use it! :)

Funny you mention Jeff Nicols. Jeff made some custom tool rests for some of our local club members a year or so ago, but I didn't have our newest lathe yet, so didn't know what to order from him. Now it's too late, unless we can all persuade him to come out of retirement! Actually, I'm about to order an 18" flange ring and take a stab at welding up a Nicols-style bowl steady rest. Unless (did I mention?) we can persuade Jeff to come out of retirement.

David

[Roger Chandler]

Uh oh! Don't look now, but I posted a thread on the metalworking forum about welding........somebody rescue me! :eek: [not really! :D]

[Roger Chandler]

Uh oh! Don't look now, but I posted a thread on the metalworking forum about welding........somebody rescue me! :eek: [not really! :D]

In regards to this .......I got an email from a local machinist who is a member of our wood turning club here........I think I am going to take him up on his offer! :D Here is part of his message:

"If you would like to come down I will show you some basic stuff and let you practice on some scrap metal. I do recommend that you investigate welding courses at a vocational school. I have learned a lot since I began to weld, and find there is far more to it than I had thought. Give me a call if you would like to use my welders."


Denny

[James Combs]

Roger, beautiful job on your hauler. Well thought out except for one thing and you asked for input. ... Picture 7 shows the cable coming out of the drum onto the top guide roller, which looks like it's about 1"od. The cable then shoots up at about a 70+ degree angle until it reachs the pulley. It's been my experience with cable that that 1"? od guide roller and with the particular cable you have, it's going to cause the cable to curl when you put stress or a load on it as it rolls off the guide rollers. If I had done this, I would have had the winch mounted where the cable comes straight out of the winch up to the pulley. If your winch had come with avaition type cable, finer wire with apposing twisted strands which gives your cable more flexibility, your current setup might be ok.
Is it possible to post a good clear closeup of the cable because you might already have better cable than what it looks like.
This observation comes from my days in the Army as a heavey equipment operator using Dozers with cable operated systems. The days before hydraulics were common on dozers. All pulleys were mounted on pivots, and all cables came straight out of the drum until it reached the pulley.... . ........... Jerry
Roger, I have run into the same problem with cable that Jerry has described. I think you can solve the problem by changing the wench mount slightly. I noticed that the receiver is bolted on. If you replaced the receiver with a couple of brackets with the same spacing as the inside of the receiver(picture the receiver without its top) and slightly taller and with holes to use the same retaining pen that you are currently using, it would allow the wench to pivot up when tension was put on the cable thereby letting the cable exit straighter from the drum with only minimal pressure of the cable against the rollers. Just a thought. You may also want to replace the hook/pulley combo with one with a larger diameter pulley. I would make sure that the pulley was at least the same diameter as your wench drum to avoid excessive bending of the cable.

[Roger Chandler]

JD........I got that particular pulley because of it's weight rating [5000 lbs] I have seen some larger pulleys at our local hardware, but the weight rating was more like 750 lbs. That would certainly not be enough. I have also seen larger snatch blocks like they use for professional logging........for my limited use with this trailer, that seems like overkill.

I am going to give this setup a good test sometime in the near future.......should something not work well, then I will be able to tell and then make some adjustments as needed. Nothing is set in stone or steel at this point that cannot be adjusted if I so desire, but I have a feeling this is going to do fine. Thanks for the input........both Jerry and yourself may be close on your assessment of how well this will work, but I need to see it in action before I begin to do more modifications.........

Much appreciated, JD!!!

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, I have run into the same problem with cable that Jerry has described. I think you can solve the problem by changing the wench mount slightly. I noticed that the receiver is bolted on. If you replaced the receiver with a couple of brackets with the same spacing as the inside of the receiver(picture the receiver without its top) and slightly taller and with holes to use the same retaining pen that you are currently using, it would allow the wench to pivot up when tension was put on the cable thereby letting the cable exit straighter from the drum with only minimal pressure of the cable against the rollers. Just a thought. You may also want to replace the hook/pulley combo with one with a larger diameter pulley. I would make sure that the pulley was at least the same diameter as your wench drum to avoid excessive bending of the cable.I never remembered to post this until now that I have gone back and re-read this thread. I did take the trailer back to the fabricators and had the winch mount welded at a 45 degree angle upward to take the pressure off the cable and give a better angle to the snatchblock pulley. I have used this thing on numerous occasions and have had no problems with the cable curling or kinking or any such issue......it all works just like it is supposed to.

[Ronald Blue]

Sorry I never saw this until now. A snatch block can be used at the hook and taken back and anchored at your overhead frame. You can get two styles either with a hook or with a shackle. As I had said before this doubles the winch capacity and cuts the line speed in half. The size of the sheeve should be 17 times the diameter of the cable or it seriously diminishes the strength of the cable. The manner in which you are using it I don't think you are putting maximum pull on it unless the log is wedged or otherwise obstructed.