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Andrew Joiner
03-21-2013, 3:40 PM
I got into woodworking at 6 years old. I was drawn to it, I just loved tools as a kid.

When I rented my first house at 18 I bought a saw to make my own furniture . This was a simple decision for me. Purchase the saw for $200, make as much furniture as I want the way I like. Or buy one piece of furniture for $200.

Now I'm retired. I was lucky in life and made some good money, mostly from real estate. But I'm as cheap as ever! Call it value oriented, frugal or budget conscious it's all the same.

I find it fun really. I have several strategies to get equal quality items for the lowest cost. My wife is the opposite,while she enjoys a good bargain, she often pays more than needed for that perceived "bargain". Fortunately I've learned to accept her buying decisions with a smile.

My wife isn't a woodworker. This leads me to wonder if woodworkers tend to be value oriented, frugal,budget conscious or cheap.


Here's some examples for the categories. I'm a 2, my Dad was a 1.

1- Insanely cheap---- So cheap I'll drive further to get an item for a few cents less. The Fuel used costs more money, so that's insanely cheap.
2-Frugal evaluator---- I'll buy a more expensive item if it's proven to be worth the extra cost, actually testing and keeping records on performance. Sandpaper and saw blades come to mind.
3- Average---- I buy things I need without paying much attention.
4- You get what you pay for---- I tend to pay more because" you get what you pay for" hopefully paying less in the long run.
5- Price is no object---- I makes me feel better to buy the finest things, price isn't important. I want luxury branded items, because they say something good about me.

Alan Bienlein
03-21-2013, 6:10 PM
Does building your own domino count as being frugal?

Jeff Monson
03-21-2013, 6:25 PM
Get what you pay for, IMO

Alan Bienlein
03-21-2013, 7:16 PM
Get what you pay for, IMO

Thats the understatement of the century and if it ever breaks I'll build another for what it cost me!

Gordon Eyre
03-21-2013, 7:29 PM
I dislike low cost tools so I am in the "you get what you pay for" category. This by itself says little about how frugal a person is. As an example, I never buy things I can't afford and never go in debt to acquire them.

Lee Schierer
03-21-2013, 7:47 PM
When I was younger and money was tight, Tools were purchased with a particular job in mind that would pay for the cost of the tool. Now I still only buy tools that I need, but I tend to buy better quality because the original didn't hold up to normal use or got used so much I just plain wore it out.

Ryan Mooney
03-21-2013, 7:53 PM
I'm somewhere between 2 and 4 skipping 3. I spend a long time wavering on 2 but have in the last few years started landing more in 4 after long consideration. This may be a bit of a backlash from having lived in 1 for a long time and having a few "aaaaarrrrgh this thing doesn't work" experiences from that. I'm definitely in 2 on the example items at this point, life is to short to use bad sandpaper.

Charles Wiggins
03-21-2013, 7:54 PM
I dislike low cost tools so I am in the "you get what you pay for" category. This by itself says little about how frugal a person is. As an example, I never buy things I can't afford and never go in debt to acquire them.

Gordon summed my thoughts up very nicely.

Andrew Joiner
03-21-2013, 8:26 PM
I dislike low cost tools so I am in the "you get what you pay for" category. This by itself says little about how frugal a person is. As an example, I never buy things I can't afford and never go in debt to acquire them.

Thanks Gordon.

I agree there's many definitions of frugal. I never buy things I can't afford and never go in debt to acquire them as well. Except for real estate in the past.

I dislike low quality tools. This review says a lot: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?200911-Scissors-Test-Review.

I found the "you get what you pay for" motto to be more true in 70's and 80's. It was my motto back then, but things started changing. Maybe it was just me or my perception.
Here's an example. When Makita first came out in the USA Japanese tools had a bad reputation. Around 1978 I bought a Makita plunge router. It was half the price of the industry standard Porter Cable and it came with an expensive bit . My dealer said test it for a month and return it if I'm not happy. It was a quality router, as good as PC's.
I find the "you get what you pay for" motto to be tougher to prove today.

Andrew Joiner
03-21-2013, 8:38 PM
I'm somewhere between 2 and 4 skipping 3. I spend a long time wavering on 2 but have in the last few years started landing more in 4 after long consideration. This may be a bit of a backlash from having lived in 1 for a long time and having a few "aaaaarrrrgh this thing doesn't work" experiences from that. I'm definitely in 2 on the example items at this point, life is to short to use bad sandpaper.

The example items 1-5 are meant to describe 1-5 in the poll. I'll edit my original post a little.

Yes Ryan, it's a tough one. It was hard to "name" categories of frugality. I got a little nervous hoping I wouldn't offend people or stir things up.

Remember our test of block planes? It was sort of cheap VS top of the line (not you and me the planes:)) Drop by again anytime.

Brian Elfert
03-21-2013, 9:23 PM
None of those choices would describe me. The second choice would probably describe me except I don't keep any records on what I buy or how the item performs. I do a lot of research when buying things. I will spend more money if the item will last longer or work better. I don't necessarily buy the least expensive choice.

Frugal is not necessarily about being cheap. Cheap is stealing handfuls of napkins and ketchup packets. Frugal is finding the best price on ketchup and napkins. Cheap is going to a buffet restaurant and getting one meal for several people. Frugal would be going to a restaurant with coupons and taking advantage of any promotions. Frugal is about stretching your money as much as possible while still living a decent life. Someone can be frugal and still buy a new car instead of used if it makes sense for them. I bought my my most recent car new because every used model I found had a lot more options and cost more than new.

I know people who are so cheap they never replace anything when it breaks unless absolutely necessary. They wear clothes that went out of style in the 70s and drive cars that are so worn out they are safety hazards. Cheap is a lifestyle for them. They have money, but just no desire to ever spend any of it.

Stephen Cherry
03-21-2013, 9:33 PM
They wear clothes that went out of style in the 70s

That's very hurtful:(

Andrew Joiner
03-21-2013, 11:10 PM
Frugal is not necessarily about being cheap. Cheap is stealing handfuls of napkins and ketchup packets.

Hey Brian. I'm from Minnesota originally. It might be in our roots. I agree with most of what you said except stealing doesn't make one cheap or frugal. It makes them a thief.

Andrew Joiner
03-21-2013, 11:10 PM
That's very hurtful:(

That's very funny!

Stephen Tashiro
03-22-2013, 2:09 AM
You get what you pay for and most of what I pay for is stuff that I don't need.

Ryan Mooney
03-22-2013, 3:10 AM
The example items 1-5 are meant to describe 1-5 in the poll. I'll edit my original post a little.

Yes Ryan, it's a tough one. It was hard to "name" categories of frugality. I got a little nervous hoping I wouldn't offend people or stir things up.

Remember our test of block planes? It was sort of cheap VS top of the line (not you and me the planes:)) Drop by again anytime.

Yeah I meant that I'll sit and evaluate things for a long time acting like a #2, but then will often jump over to being #4 after agonizing about the options for a long time (if I counted my time considering options as money I'm probably a #5 :D). That behavior is true for me for at least for major purchases. For smaller items where the risk of getting something sub-optimal is low or things I'm more familiar with I'm more apt to stay in #2 territory. The sandpaper example struck home because I've spent a lot of $$'s and time and energy on bad sandpaper until I tried some nicer stuff and actually it was cheaper because it wore out slower and worked faster so yeah its complicated. Cheap isn't always cheaper when the rubber hits the road and better quality doesn't always cost more. I ended up voting as a #4 even though the majority of my life I've been somewhere in the #1-#2 territory because I had to be somewhat honest with myself about some of my more recent purchases where I went somewhat beyond need and into "more is better" territory.

On the flip side I keep cars for 10+ years (no defined time frame, still runs good.. yep its a keeper) and have tried to head more towards tools that have some reasonable chance of payback over their lifespan (as opposed to some cheaper tools that often aren't very useful day one). I expect most of my major power tools and all of my hand tools to have a 20-40 year lifespan (optimistic? perhaps, it would be easier with more used tools to hit the payoff mark but time vs money plays into the equation in in some cases as well, I'm short on time). I've had the tool cost conversation with various people who wondered how I could spend so much on tools but then spent X times than (X=2-3ish in the cases I'm thinking of) on fancy cars/boats/motorcycles and I figure cost/hour of enjoyment I'm eventually (well already I think but in 10 years definitely) way ahead :D

I think if nothing else on the block plane test it was demonstrated that technique and tuning matter as much as (or more than) the tool once you're past a certain point on tool quality (which clearly isn't strictly related to price). Fun to do anyway :cool:

Its sort of interesting because I fully understand the psychology of associating price with quality in lieu of more objective criteria and yet still find myself caught by it sometimes even when its pretty clear objectively that a cheaper (dollar wise) solution would suffice for my needs (and in some cases may even perhaps be superior). The best tools in the world won't, by themselves, make you a better woodworker but the worst sure are frustrating (a certain indian made jack plane I had comes to mind, the blade was soft and the body wasn't even cast - yes I should have known better - just bent with the sole being interestingly wavey - and it cost more than the HF #33 that actually appears to work ok). So I think that some backlash against having had some real stinkers + the costlier == better psychology plays into the whole decision process, its definitely complicated.

Brian Elfert
03-22-2013, 8:29 AM
Hey Brian. I'm from Minnesota originally. It might be in our roots. I agree with most of what you said except stealing doesn't make one cheap or frugal. It makes them a thief.

Yes, it may be stealing, but people do it. They buy a fast food meal and then take a inch thick stack of napkins and a large handful of ketchup packets. I would never do it because it is unethical and ketchup and napkins are just not that expensive to buy. Besides, I rarely eat fast food.

Jerome Stanek
03-22-2013, 9:43 AM
Some times you get a gem for less money. You just have to do your homework.

Andrew Joiner
03-22-2013, 12:03 PM
I ended up voting as a #4 even though the majority of my life I've been somewhere in the #1-#2 territory because I had to be somewhat honest with myself about some of my more recent purchases where I went somewhat beyond need and into "more is better" territory.


Ryan, I'd say your defiantly an evaluator when it comes to picking how frugal you are:)
Yes, I've changed over the years and for awhile I was close to a #5. Interesting, that it was at a time in my life that I was furthest from woodworking. I had sort of an early midlife crisis and bought a red Porsche convertible. Had some fun,got some speeding violations,and paid for it in higher insurance. That experience kind of sent me back into being a #2 as I shopped around for insurance long after the Porsche was in storage.

Stephen Cherry
03-22-2013, 1:37 PM
I like to recycle the foam Dunkin Donut coffe cups, basically until they fall apart. Just don't like to pay much for a cup of coffee. Where would that fall on the cheapness scale?

Chuck Saunders
03-22-2013, 1:57 PM
I like to recycle the foam Dunkin Donut coffe cups, basically until they fall apart. Just don't like to pay much for a cup of coffee. Where would that fall on the cheapness scale?

Completely normal, I get my cups, 24oz, from the convenience store (QuikTrip) and they usually last me a week, but if I lose them or damage them I don't worry and I don't have to wash them when the tea stain gets too thick.

Andrew Joiner
03-22-2013, 1:58 PM
I like to recycle the foam Dunkin Donut coffe cups, basically until they fall apart. Just don't like to pay much for a cup of coffee. Where would that fall on the cheapness scale?
As long as your stylishly dressed your fine.

Kevin Bourque
03-22-2013, 4:11 PM
One time Jack Benny called me a cheapskate.

Jim Koepke
03-22-2013, 4:24 PM
My buying habits are all over the scale depending on what is being purchased.

Many of my tools have already passed the century mark before they came to me.

Many of my planes were bought because they were old, inexpensive cast offs of a yard sale.

Some of my planes were purchased because they were the best available and were priced accordingly.

Often my purchases are thought out as to how to get the best value. About the only tools bought with a thought to them not lasting my lifetime are screwdrivers. For those I have been buying Craftsman so they can be exchanged as long as Sears doesn't go under.

jtk

Bruce Volden
03-22-2013, 11:37 PM
I have to chime in here too since it hasn't been posted.

"I'm a poor man so I can only afford the best."

Bruce

Rich Engelhardt
03-23-2013, 6:43 AM
I've worked for a few people in my life that were so cheap you couldn't pull a needle out of their butt w/a tractor.
I also knew some along the way that never looked at a price tag.

I'm somewhere in between. ;)

Brian Ashton
03-24-2013, 2:14 AM
I don't consider myself cheap in the slightest. I don't have a great deal of money but I hate cheap garbage more than paying a premium for quality. That said I intensely hate being targeted by gouging, opportunistic pricing or attempts to manipulate the market therefore I continue to shop around.

Andrew Joiner
03-24-2013, 11:45 AM
I don't consider myself cheap in the slightest. I don't have a great deal of money but I hate cheap garbage more than paying a premium for quality. That said I intensely hate being targeted by gouging, opportunistic pricing or attempts to manipulate the market therefore I continue to shop around.

I agree with you Brian. By cheap garbage do you mean low quality? I guess that's why I'm a frugal evaluator.

I try to avoid low quality without letting the price determine what quality is. That can be an interesting task.

I'm fascinated by all the marketing games we're hit with. Here's a great example. Take brand name drugs vs generic. A lab test proves there identical. The ingredient labels are identical. The miracle of marketing tries to make us believe the more expensive drug will do a better job, thus justifying it's higher cost.

It's harder to tell with tools and shop supplies. Country of origin as a basis for quality comes up a lot. I tested a Swiss sander that under performed a Chinese model by a good margin.