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Martin Boekers
03-21-2013, 2:43 PM
Lately I have been noticing shipping costs being pretty high for some things,
not sure why I can get marble bases shipped from JDS or Marco for $15 or so,
but another company wants $30 to ship an 8x10 crystal rectangle. I recently
ordered an eagle statue (actually 14 of them) and about fell into my grave
when they charged $45+ shipping on each one. We had a pretty long discusion
on that one. Shipping ate up my whole profit.

Sooooo..... the reason I am posting this esp for newcomers, you may want to
double check on shipping costs if it isnt an item you normally buy.

For the life of me I don't know why the eagle company didn't ship them on a pallet
to save a few $$ or why some of the designers at the manufacterers don't take into
consideration shipping costs. They may have been able to make the package an inch
or so smaller so it wasn't considered oversize by UPS and cut shipping in half.......

Just some thoughts....

Dan Hintz
03-21-2013, 3:38 PM
Why should they care, you're paying for it ;)

Tim Bateson
03-21-2013, 3:46 PM
My 2 cents... Grrrrr

Liesl Dexheimer
03-21-2013, 4:09 PM
That's what makes it so difficult to explain to customers. Some people think that the stock magically appears in your shop. Also, it's not like we can get free shipping on orders of $25 or more like some retail chains offer.

Martin Boekers
03-21-2013, 4:36 PM
Its get a bit crazy when you by a $50 item and they charge to another $50 to ship it!

I have to explain to folks from time to time when they ask me to beat an online
price. "Does that include shipping and engraving"..... Their response is "Hmmmm I don't
know......I figured it did...."

I really wanted to post this so newcomers to our industry don't get burned by companies
that use shipping and handling as profit centers. I've been in this industry about 7 years
(a youngster as to some on this forum :) ) but even then I sometimes am taken by surprise...
I tend to buy more and more from Marco, JDS etc because of how they handle their business.
They have upgraded their selections quite a bit, I know I can depend on them.

Liesl Dexheimer
03-21-2013, 5:25 PM
Had something similar happen recently where a customer we had helped before came in wanting a gavel with the engraved band. I had some in stock but she needed a specific size. Quoted her the price and she was in shock & told me she could get it for half the cost with free shipping online. I turned her away & told her I couldn't compete with that price. I could tell she was unhappy that I wasn't able to help her but I'm not going to work for free. Shipping alone would cost $11 to $12 nevermind the cost of the product & my labor.

Joe Pelonio
03-21-2013, 8:14 PM
That's the latest trick learned from EBay sellers. You give a great price but then make your money on the shipping. Luckily most of what I need I can get locally.

Mike Null
03-21-2013, 9:38 PM
It has been my thought that even the most trusted of our suppliers (that includes JDS) use shipping as a profit center. They may tell you they don't make any money on it but if you're ordering smaller quantities you're paying shipping costs for those who buy large enough to get free freight.

I ship everything by UPS and I am a small volume shipper by comparison but my rates are far lower than I am being charged by my suppliers.

Mike Lassiter
03-21-2013, 10:45 PM
Truck dealer I use to work for doubled their cost on all freight cost that they paid for UPS and so forth. Even tow bills on trucks which easily ran hundreds that they paid and rebilled customers were marked up. Not double but by a sized amount.
I didn't agree to that and think freight should not be used to boost the bottom line.
There is a cost involved in shipping (boxes, tape,packing material that has to be used, ect ) which should be covered by shipping or handling charges in addition to actual shipping cost, but I think businesses that do this are sleezy in there business ethics.

Michael Kowalczyk
03-22-2013, 12:13 AM
When possible I try to have it shipped on my UPS account. Saves lots of $$$$$$

Stephen Maloney
03-22-2013, 1:01 AM
I want to emphasize Michael Kowalczyk's advice above. The #1 best way to avoid outrageous shipping charges is to have them bill to your account. All of the major wholesalers and distributors will do it - just ask. I can personally confirm JDS, laserbits, M&M, US Plastic will do it. The best part is you don't pay for S&H you just pay for the S. Which means NO markup. The best thing to do is band together with some laser friends / other local businesses and do enough business with UPS or FedEx to negotiate rates. 50lbs. from Ohio to CA is $72 straight off of UPS's site. My negotiated rate is $38, and when it shows up on the bill, it will probably be closer to $30-32 because of a further discount. It doesn't take many packages to get negotiated rates, either...

John Frazee
03-22-2013, 1:38 AM
Not only are companies like Marco using shipping as a money maker but they are not keeping inventory up in all their locations. Most orders we have been placing are being shipped from so many locations costing us so much more in shipping because they refuse to keep stock. When they have to ship a few pieces from each location, we may end up paying the customer to take the items out the door. When I bought from PDU, they would ship next day or two day air at their expense anything they didn't have in stock locally. I left PDU because of inventory issues but will check their stock over the weekend and will consider going back to them. I will call and get a shipping quote from each supplier for a box of 2x3 marble. We have all three major suppliers in Charlotte. I'll post back here the results.

Martin Boekers
03-22-2013, 10:50 AM
I order a bit from JDS I try to get it in $1000 + to save shipping, also I watch at times of the year (particularly trade shows) when they offer free
shipping at $500. Sometimes if I'm a few hundred short I order consumables to fill it in tape, metal, plastics etc. I save a few wthousand a year on
shipping costs from them. It does take a bit more work but worth it.

I will start using a UPS acct, I wasn't aware of the savings there. THANKS for sharing!

In this economy a thing such as shipping cost can make or break a month.

JDS with free shipping it's free no matter what warehouse ships it.

JDS to me has the best ordering system, I search previous orders easily, if my standard
shipping warehouse doesn't have stock it tells me which has it and how many then I can
chose where it comes from...NICE! Most all I order comes next day if I order before 4pm.

Other pluses with JDS....AP pricing order $5000 or more you get maximum case discount
when ordering a case (BIG savings) and now you get 1% back of yearly purchase to order
samples.

As I said I have learned to pay closer attention to details such as shipping.....

Jesse Anderson
03-22-2013, 10:59 AM
Ordering in bulk is always the best answer... I would not suggest buying 10 pallets of toilet paper at 9 cents a roll like my father did 6 years ago. But when ordering heavy always order more.
If u are within a 200-300 mile radius. Some time's its better just to pick it up yourself.

I as just down in Las Vegas. I picked up 200 dozen pieces of glassware, shot glasses, and stuff from a very reputable and cheap company. Saved me like $1500 in shipping costs.

That is not including the Gambling loses, Gas, and Doritos......

Glenn Vaughn
03-22-2013, 11:01 AM
The worst I ever saw was a U.S. company (forget who) that I was going to order a 40# bag of hickory sawdust from for my smoker. $16 for the sawdust. When I got to checkout shipping was $250.00 - needless to say I found a different source.

Martin Boekers
03-22-2013, 12:22 PM
The worst I ever saw was a U.S. company (forget who) that I was going to order a 40# bag of hickory sawdust from for my smoker. $16 for the sawdust. When I got to checkout shipping was $250.00 - needless to say I found a different source.


YIKES!!!!!!

I have a smoker that uses pellets, good thing I get them local. :)

Curious I have an A Maze N smoker. I love it, I think there are only a couple
with sawdust, what do you use?

HA, I can hijack my own thread..... ;)

Dan Hintz
03-22-2013, 12:59 PM
The worst I ever saw was a U.S. company (forget who) that I was going to order a 40# bag of hickory sawdust from for my smoker. $16 for the sawdust. When I got to checkout shipping was $250.00 - needless to say I found a different source.

Sometimes it helps to call the company. I recently ordered a color laser printer for my wife. They called me a day later and asked if I had a loading dock..."What?!" They wanted to ship it freight (read, semi trailer), even though it only weighed like 45 pounds. I asked why they couldn't just use UPS or FedEx and ship it normally. "Hang on..." They came back an hour later and said it wouldn't be a problem. Saved me $100 and I got it in a few days, no semi.

glenn bradley
03-22-2013, 1:34 PM
If items are available from multiple sources and there is not a compelling reason (like Lee Valley's outstanding customer service for example) to purchase from a specific supplier, I check the total cost to get the item in my hands. Sometimes I pay $14 more for the item but, get the item for $20 less.

Delbert Rippetoe
03-22-2013, 2:37 PM
Can you share the company where you ordered the acrylic eagles? I am getting ready to order some. I want to make sure to stay away from that company. I guess I will ask when I order.

Glenn Vaughn
03-22-2013, 2:54 PM
YIKES!!!!!!

I have a smoker that uses pellets, good thing I get them local. :)

Curious I have an A Maze N smoker. I love it, I think there are only a couple
with sawdust, what do you use?

HA, I can hijack my own thread..... ;)

I have a home built cold smoker. I have since pirchased a Bradly 6 rack digiral smoker.

Martin Boekers
07-24-2013, 3:03 PM
Just my rant for today on this again..... Just ordered about $30 worth of golf towels from Johnson Plastics, 15 total. Shipping was $18.00 & Handling $2.50. I commented in the "notes" area that I felt these was pretty high as USPS has a flat box rate for about $5. To pay $20 shipping for $30 of product can make me have second thoughts about purchases....

Mike Chance in Iowa
07-24-2013, 3:58 PM
... I don't play golf. Are these towels big enough to cover a horse? $20.50 in shipping charges seems excessive for 15 towels that I'm guessing are small, lightweight and probably weigh less then 2 pounds combined?

Martin Boekers
07-24-2013, 5:00 PM
... I don't play golf. Are these towels big enough to cover a horse? $20.50 in shipping charges seems excessive for 15 towels that I'm guessing are small, lightweight and probably weigh less then 2 pounds combined? 12"x15", they would fit in a USPS flat rate box... I did about 200 of them for a golf tournament earlier this summer. Real nice microfiber. They sell them with or with out grommets in a couple sizes. I have approached some local car clubs with these and they are starting to gain interest. Shipping cost raise my pricing though on this. We'll see what actual cost is as like many of the vendors now just Est the cost. If creates a pain doing bookwork as then I get a separate invoice and charge for "shipping adjustment"......

Mark Sipes
07-24-2013, 7:29 PM
I concur with shipping/inventory at the distributors is a major cause for higher shipping costs. Customer selects 2 sizes of cups with gloss wood bases out of a distributors catalog. I place an order with my local supplier. Get call 10 minutes later. They stock the 2 sized bases but the cups (same style) will be shipped from two different warehouses. $35 profit spent on additional shipping....... Another case I order plastic and metal 1/4 sheets in a single order and get 2 flat boxes for $12 each...... I normally ask the customer service rep to pack together or tape the two boxes together at a cost of $12.00 . The distributors need to start taking the customers shipping in mind..... WHY? Because it costs them nothing to save their customers money that could be spent on product that is to their benefit.

I wonder how many distributors track the items that need to be shipped from additional locations, not because they are out of stock but because they don't stock that item........ I too like JDS' on-line order process,,,,,,, I can see which warehouse has the items if my supplier is zero balance.. allows me to select a different item that is in stock that will fill the order.

Jeff Belany
07-25-2013, 12:07 PM
Just ordered some acrylic from Delvie's this week, small order, about 3# that cost $16+ to ship. Then I find out that they are selling the same item on EBAY and offer FREE shipping! Very frustrated. My fault for not checking EBAY first. But why do they cater to EBAY and not to regular commercial customers?

Jeff in northern Wisconsin

Mark Sipes
07-25-2013, 12:19 PM
Ebay is considered "advertising" for them.

Jim Beachler
07-25-2013, 12:56 PM
So they would give a better deal to a new customer who has no history than one who has been ordering from them with a history. This kind of marketing just blows my mind. I will sometimes give a regular customer a discount or special consideration from time to time. Why should I do it for a new customer who I don't know if they will ever come back no matter what I do?

Jeff Belany
07-25-2013, 2:13 PM
So they would give a better deal to a new customer who has no history than one who has been ordering from them with a history. This kind of marketing just blows my mind. I will sometimes give a regular customer a discount or special consideration from time to time. Why should I do it for a new customer who I don't know if they will ever come back no matter what I do?

My feeling is you treat a new customer extra special so they BECOME a regular customer. Treat them poorly and odds are they will NEVER become a regular customer.

Jeff in northern Wisconsin

Ross Moshinsky
07-25-2013, 6:11 PM
Not only are companies like Marco using shipping as a money maker but they are not keeping inventory up in all their locations. Most orders we have been placing are being shipped from so many locations costing us so much more in shipping because they refuse to keep stock. When they have to ship a few pieces from each location, we may end up paying the customer to take the items out the door. When I bought from PDU, they would ship next day or two day air at their expense anything they didn't have in stock locally. I left PDU because of inventory issues but will check their stock over the weekend and will consider going back to them. I will call and get a shipping quote from each supplier for a box of 2x3 marble. We have all three major suppliers in Charlotte. I'll post back here the results.

You are right on the money. They do not keep a proper level of inventory and then expect you to pay $10.00 shipping on a $10.00 item that should always be in stock, especially if you order it on a regular basis. Marco is our warehouse with the worst inventory next PDU and JDS is the best as they will ship for free on items not in stock in our local, as we are a will-call customer.

Mike Null
07-26-2013, 6:00 AM
JDS has long been my go to supplier for most things but shipping is a profit center for them so I pick my stuff up at the warehouse. I like Johnson's too but their inventory is spotty and they will not subsidize shipping from a remote warehouse to fill your order.

Jim Beachler
07-26-2013, 2:55 PM
As a regular customer, I would feel slighted that you would give someone a better deal just to maybe get their business. How about all of the business that I have sent your way. Shouldn't I get a reward equal to what the new customer gets?

I realize that a lot of companies believe that this will build sales by tempting people with great deals. I believe that if you are only using pricing to get them in the door, then when you give them the regular price, they will move on. I give the same fair price to a new customer as to an established customer. I sell myself through quality, speed and accuracy.

I feel that my current customers are move valuable than a potential customer. I do reward my top ten retail customers with a discount on the next three orders. This way I am rewarding for many orders / large orders. I reward my top ten wholesale customers with a small gift of a 5 gallon tin of high end popcorn. Include a customized label that says "Thanks for making our sales pop!".

By taking great care of my current customers, I encourage word of mouth advertising. That is more valuable than any other marketing. My current customers give me more orders, which results in more sales.

Under their strategy, I do not want to be a regular customer. Make me a new customer every time I order.

Mike Chance in Iowa
07-26-2013, 3:39 PM
Getting back to shipping costs, if you have never been involved in setting up an ordering system that has to calculate shipping costs, you have no idea how challenging it can be depending upon the type of products sold and how many different items are being sold. Many sellers will set it up based on the $ amount sold, while others will input weights and sizes of each item and calculate off that data. Both have their pros and cons.

Our suppliers have it much more challenging then we do. We sell X number of items, while they sell XXX number of items of all different shapes, sizes & weights that they need to caclulate shipping costs.

No system is perfect, so that is when human intervention comes in. The person processing the order over the phone should notice the shipping overcharge and adjust the shipping price before they complete it. If the order has been placed online, the person processing the online order should submit a partial refund to the customer.

Glen Monaghan
07-28-2013, 10:38 PM
why do they cater to EBAY and not to regular commercial customers?

Because their regular (business) customers are going to order anyway and expect to pay shipping on top of the merchandise price, while most ebay shoppers are bargain hunters and offering free shipping helps get them to buy (plus the sellers probably have plenty of markup in the price to cover shipping anyway, and a bit of profit from a sale is better to them than no profit from no sale).

Glen Monaghan
07-28-2013, 10:49 PM
As a regular customer, I would feel slighted that you would give someone a better deal just to maybe get their business. How about all of the business that I have sent your way. Shouldn't I get a reward equal to what the new customer gets?

Pretty standard business practice to give new customers discounts, often specifically excluding existing customers. Banks do it all the time, offering special good rates or extras to new customers to get them to open accounts. Cable companies, phone companies, internet providers, power distribution companies, they all do that. In fact, if you live in an area that has multiple electricity providers, gas providers, phone companies, cable companies, etc., try calling them and asking what they charge a new customer for your current level of service. It's lower than your current price. Ask if you can have the same price, and they will probably say no. Hang up and call <whoever their competition is> and tell them what your current provider charges you, and ask their price for you to switch - probably the same new customer price your provider offers. Now, call your provider back and tell them you figure on switching and what the competition's price is, and they almost certainly will now offer you the same new customer price, if not an even better "customer retention" price. So, why don't they reward all current customers with that price? Because they hope you won't notice that you are paying too much!