Which molding cutters are most popular? W-718

[Michael Dunn]

Hey guys!

I just picked up a nice used Woodmaster W-718. I'd like to add some cutters for making my own moldings. I have a door casing, and a couple other edge profile cutters. I'd like a crown molding cutter. I cannot yet afford to buy the 'starter kit' at +$500. Are there aftermarket cutters that are of high quality?

If I am going to start making molding to sell for a profit what two profiles are a good starting point in addition to my door casing cutter?

Any tips are most appreciated. I'm new to this machine and molding in general.

[Peter Quinn]

The profit for a small shop is imE in custom work, not reproductions of commodity items. A large millworks can beat your pants off on price and quality on most stock molded items, but a small shop can often compete locally by offering small runs, custom species, unique profiles. I'd run some examples of what you can do with the knives you have, use those as a sales tool, order knives when you have an order. Maybe a 3 3/8" or 4 3/8" crown in a basic profile would be a seller in custom species of stain grade material? There are literally tens of thousands of possible profiles, around me many architects seem intent on costing their clients large sums of money by specifying a custom profile rather than simply using a very similar stock profile, at least until the clients get wind of it.

Anyway, my point is the most "popular" profiles and the most profitable profiles to a small shop may not be the same thing, spending money on knives you never use is of little value at great expense. Most grinding shops offer reasonably priced expedited service for molding knives.

The biggest sellers where I am are crowns, bed molding ( small crown like molding), base cap, panel molding, back bands, door stop, and shoe molding, chair rails too. A walk down the aisle of home center will show you the most popular basic profiles, custom moldings are most often thicker, more crisp details, more interesting transitions, a generally richer appearance. That's competing on quality.

[Mark Bolton]

You have to remeber that roughly speaking with your equipment your going to have to dimension your stock, mill the profile, relieve the back, an more than likely do some sanding. A molding shop is going to run their blank through the molder, there maybor many not be sanding (home center profiles no) and ship it.

While they may or may not be dimensioning their blank, you will have at least 3 operations to their one and at a far slower production rate (feet per minute through the machine). The compensation for three operations to their one MUST come from somewhere. The fact that you will pay more for your material MUST come from somewhere. You can devalue your labor (mistake).

Peter is right. Small custom runs (read high priced) are the niche for small shops. But even they can be very tight by the time your all said and done.

[Jeff Duncan]

Yup, re-read what Peter and Mark said and make sure you fully understand it before pulling your wallet out;)

good luck,
jeffD

[Peter Quinn]

Oh, keep watching ebay, knives go up for sale relatively cheap all the time there, I've gotten some great profiles quite inexpensively there. I see wood master knives there, and IIR you can get a corrugated back head for the wood master to have access to that market too. I just bought a knife (after more than 3 years of watching) that matches the base cap in my home perfectly for less than the price of a cheap router bit! That particular profile used to be very common, now more rare, but quite popular at my house!

[Stephen Cherry]

I would guess that Dave at Oella Saw could make you any cutter that you would want, and he is very easy to deal with:

http://www.oellasawandtool.com/categories/Custom-Ground-Profile-Knives/Woodmaster-700S2-Corrugated-head-custom-knives/

It's been my experience that what he has on ebay or his website at any particular time is just the "tip of the iceberg", plus he certainly can resharpen what he initially grinds.

As for which profile, your customers would tell you what they would buy. Baseboard, crown, chair rail, door casing...?

[Michael Dunn]

I would guess that Dave at Oella Saw could make you any cutter that you would want, and he is very easy to deal with:

http://www.oellasawandtool.com/categories/Custom-Ground-Profile-Knives/Woodmaster-700S2-Corrugated-head-custom-knives/

It's been my experience that what he has on ebay or his website at any particular time is just the "tip of the iceberg", plus he certainly can resharpen what he initially grinds.

As for which profile, your customers would tell you what they would buy. Baseboard, crown, chair rail, door casing...?

That's the thing... I got laid off from m 'day job' 5 weeks ago. In addition to reluctantly searching for a 'real job' I'm trying to put my obsessively put together shop to good use and make some money.

That being said, I have no 'customers'. I started another website. It's not done yet, but its there. Not even ready to show you guys yet. It's laughable at the moment. I wan to build cabinets, entertainment centers, tables, dressers, chests, cutting boards, picture frames, calendar frames, etc...

I'd also like to, if needed, to remodel work in homes. That's where the custom molding profiles would come in.

So any tips on generating business are MUCH appreciated. I am a legal business entity by the way.

Thanx,

Mike

[Mark Bolton]

Well I dont know what to tell you with regards to drumming up work but the only advice I can give you is to account for your time, equipment, materials, and so on, honestly and realistically. Never allow yourself to lie to yourself with regards to the cost of being in business. There is no point in entering into something as stressful as your own business and not being compensated adequately for it. Just because your unemployed at the moment doesnt mean your expenses are less nor does the fact that your a new business.

The only other thing I can offer, though it doesnt sit well with the panic of trying to get something off the ground, is to specialize. Your laundry list is understandably trying to grab any job under the sun that would earn you some cash. Its very very difficult to do a little bit of everything, take it from me. Focusing your skills and efforts may feel like the wrong thing to do when your trying to get cash flow but its something that you will likely be thankful for if you stick with it.

Just my $0.0002

[Jeff Duncan]

As your trying to find business right now I would make that my primary focus. No sense in spending money on equipment for jobs that don't exist. If guys want to buy basic molding profiles they're not going to you as there's no way your going to come in cheaper than a molding outfit without giving it away. The only reason they come to you is for a custom profile or a profile in a species the molding co. doesn't stock. Either way having stock knives sitting on the shelf does not make you money! Sure if you have the income you can get knives for short money on the auction scene....but again, with no revenue coming in that would not be my first priority.

So here's my advice for what little it's worth.....find yourself a job, whether molding, bookcase, kitchen, whatever....then buy the minimum equipment/supplies you need to get that job out the door. Buy whatever you can't make yourself profitably....including the moldings! hopefully if everything goes just right you won't lose money:o Then find your next job and repeat. Over time you'll get better at bidding jobs, start to make money and re-invest in tooling you need to get those jobs out the door quicker and more profitably.

Also it's good to understand your knowledge of how to build stuff is the least important factor here. Getting the work and making money on it is a far deal harder than anything you'll do in the shop! I don't know how many shops have closed down over this last 3-4 years across the country, but I'd guess it's in the thousands. I'd be willing to bet not many closed b/c they couldn't produce good work;)

good luck,
JeffD