Dovetail jigs

[Jack Wood]

I have a Jet dovetail jig that I have started to try to use and want to know if it's just me or are these things a pain to use in general. The amount of tweaking seems to be a very time consuming task. For more money do the higher end jigs simplify this process? What I was expecting was a jig where you just put board A in one part and board B in the other and route away, that's not what I've found to be true with this jig. This was given to me for free so I'm not out anything, but I was expecting a lot easier setup, and with the way it is now it might become just be a dust catcher under my bench:(

[Greg Scott]

The hardest thing with all dovetail jigs is getting the bit depth set correctly. It doesn't matter if it is a $20.00 American Vermont or a $400.00 Leigh.
IMHO
Greg

[Lee Schierer]

I found with my Rockler jig that it took a long time to get the adjustments right for the first set up I did since everything needed to be adjusted. It took half as much time to do the setup the second time even though I was cutting dovetails in thicker stock. I suspect that the next time will be pretty fast if it doesn't take me a year to make a project that needs dovetails. It is still way faster for me than cutting even a single set of hand cut dovetails. :D

[Bill Wiggins]

I'm also interested in postings that are related to Dovetail Jigs. My hand-cut dovetails are horrible. I've been considering building the following jig, even though it's designed only for half-blind, not through dovetails.

This woodworking plan was originally published in Woodsmith No. 58.
http://plansnow.com/dovejig.html

Is it worth building this jig? Has anyone done it? Or, as Jack asked, are the high-end jigs the only way to go?

Bill Smith

[Ken Waag]

I've used a number of jigs with similar fiddling required. I got the Akeda. Expensive. Simple. Within 15 minutes of opening the box, I was routing dovetails. Manual is a handy flip chart style with lots of pictures and few words.

The first day using it I had some utility drawers to knock out, so I figured it would be a good chance to practice. I routed the first joint, went to put it together expecting the usual adjust a few things and go again. Nope!, fit perfectly first time around.

A dozen drawers, through dovetailed front and back (overkill, but I was practicing). Finished these in a couple hours (joinery only, already had stock sized). Never had to tweak anything and haven't since.

Great dust collection as a bonus. It is expensive, but I'd say if you want a jig you'll use look at this one. I'd buy it again.

[Per Swenson]

We have the leigh D4.
Only one problem.
I suffer from a terminal case of CRS.
So, my father Bob is in charge of that dept.
He is in the tertiary stage of CRS.
The point I am trying to make is,
if you do not use this jig alot.
you find yourself , nose in the manual,
or watching the video over and over again.
I also suspect when Bob reviews the video,
he secretly switchs to the cooking channel.
This would be wonderful if you want to dove tail
chicken with duck sauce.
Other wise its a great jig and the industry standard.
I, on the other hand lust for a Akeda,
for the very reasons Ken so aptly noted above.
Per

[Ted Shrader]

Jack -

Dovetail jigs take a fair amount of "fiddling" initially to learn the intricacies. I have a Craftsman and a Leigh. On both , the critical issue is the bit depth.

After you have made enough adjustments to get a properly fitted joint, make a cut in a scrap piece. Mark it up with the bit settings and save it for the next time you need to set up the DT jig. The settings (and bits) will be different for different thicknesses of wood.

Regards,
Ted

[Jamie Buxton]

If you want a fiddle-free jig, check out the Keller. I never do test joints, even though on different jobs I use wood of different thickness.

[Kurt Aebi]

Bill,

I may get flogged for this one, but here goes anyway!

Get the Harbor Freight Dovetail Jig. The stores often have it on sale for $25.00 (catalog usually has it on sale for ~$50) with the 1/2" plate and they usually have the 1/4" & 3/8" plates available for ~$10.00 each. I have one and am quite satisfied with it. I figure if you are doing an occaisional job and not using it on a regular basis - save your money for other things.

Of course, Keller, Leigh and others are heavier-duty - But one friend of mine has the JET and another has the one from Rockler and though I haven't tried exchanging template plates, they look like almost duplicates of each other.

[Steve Inniss]

Jack,

...what Jamie said. I bought a Keller a few years ago based on it's rating in WOOD magazine. It is as simple as you can get and the results are excellent - I hated the setup of other ones I've tried.

-Steve

[Mike Monroe]

Kurt,

What were you thinking (obviously you weren’t)? Why buy an import when you can buy an expensive American made dovetail jig that comes with a Baldor motor? :p :rolleyes:

Fifty lashes with a wet noodle for you.:D ;) :) :rolleyes:

-Mike<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[Ron Taylor]

I have to chime in with a little appreciation for my WoodRat. It isn't a jig by a long shot, and it requires some craftsmanship to accomplish most of what it does, but what it does is awesome by any standard. I love making dovetails with the 'Rat because I'm not "boxed in" by a jig. I can be as creative as I want and yet do repititious cuts as precisely as with a jig. Then when I'm through with the dovetails, I can do box joints, M&T's, sliding dovetails, rabbits, profiles, etc., ect.

[Ron Taylor]

I think I got so involved in talking about how versatile the 'Rat is that I didn't actually address the point of the thread. Alas, the 'Rat does come with a high quotient of "fiddlin'". I've gone through a substantial quantity of scraps learning how to get a moderately high degree of quality with the contraption. Now that my confort zone has been reached, I'm confident to put a good piece of wood into the 'Rat's clamping device. It is definitely not an "out of the box dovetail cutting wonder"..... at least for a person of my level of experience. There was a time that I questioned my sanity for the price of the WoodRat. Now that I'm accustomed to its perculiarities, setup is quick and quality is more than acceptable. I am, at this point, quite satisfied with the device and my productivitiy with it.

[Richard Wolf]

Jack, I think which ever way you go with dovetail jigs, the big problem is like Per said. You MUST use the jig on a fairly regular basis to remain comfortable with it. I have used many jigs over the years and its not always the tweaking that gets you, it's trying to remenber which adjustments to make!

Richard

[Sam Blasco]

Jack, I think which ever way you go with dovetail jigs, the big problemis like Per said. You MUST used the jig on a fairly regular basis to remain comfortable with it. I have used many jigs over the years and its not always the tweaking that gets you, it's trying to remenber which adjustments to make!

Richard
Tis so true, but if you consistently use the same thickness boards, say 1/2" x 4" drawer stock, and all you want to do is half blind dovetails, then the cheaper jigs can't be beat. I go to my grandfather's old craftsman jig all the time. and i have the keller system and the incra system (love them both). but what you can do is make some story pieces, once you get it right, and use them when it is time to set things up again. chances are your test cuts will often be right on, and your memory won't need to be too large. ;}..

[lou sansone]

I agree with most of the other posts about fiddling and having to remember how you did it last time. The one jig that I never have forgotten how to use and really does not take a lot of time to set up is the "hand cut" jig. No I wouldn't suggest it for kitchens and other high volume box stuff, but for the 18th century stuff that I do, it never seems to be a problem

lou

[Jack Wood]

Well I don't feel like a klutz so much anymore! I thought that I was just not getting it right and apparently there is a large curve on working these jigs. Richard you hit the nail when you wrote about remembering what it was you did the last time around. One of the most frustrating things with the jet jig is the black plastic guides used to set the jig. They have two set screws and and as a result if you aren't real careful one side can be out or in from the other causing your dovetail to slope:mad:. I really don't do much furniture making, and the small boxes I do make I can dovetail on my scroll saw. As to the Akeda and more costly jigs, well $400:eek: for it is way above the payoff ratio for me. Thanks for everyones input, this board is great!:)

[Ralph Barhorst]

Yesterday I glued up four drawers that I am making for a chest. The drawers sides are 1/2" x 4-1/2" birch.

The photos show the jigs that I built to do the half blind dovetails. One jig makes the dovetails and the other makes the pins. The jigs were cut on the tablesaw and the exact dimensions were not critical. The most important thing is to make everything symetrical about the center. The wood pieces are 6-1/2" wide and I nailed a piece of scrap wood to each side to ensure that the drawer sides were centered when I routed them. The blue tape was my adjustment when cutting the pins.

I routed them on my router table using a 1/2" 14 degree bit with a 5/8" collar.

Jig cost was nothing. It was all made from scrap.

It took three trys to get the jigs to work right. :mad: But once it was setup, the joints were completed quickly.

[Frank Martin]

I too tried a Leigh jig and was thinking about the FMT. Then I found out about the Woodrat. After working with it about 6 hours to familiarize myself with how it works for different functions, I decided to sell the Leigh, because I could not justify the real estate for it. Even though it takes a little to understand how it works, Woodrat is an excellent platform, especially for hobby use. You can make all kinds of joints with complete freedom from jig-bushing-template limitations. Other than dadoes and rabbets on large projects, I cut all my joinery on Woodrat.

[Michael Gibbons]

I have the Keller Journeyman. It works like a charm as long as you can handle 1 size spacing. Also you can buy smaller bits for thinner wood.

[Glen Blanchard]

If you want a fiddle-free jig, check out the Keller. I never do test joints, even though on different jobs I use wood of different thickness.

Why do you suppose the bit height is not as critical with the Keller as with other jigs?

[Jamie Buxton]

Why do you suppose the bit height is not as critical with the Keller as with other jigs?

The Keller is different from the jigs I used when I first started. Those jigs cut the drawer side and drawer front simultaneously, and the only way to get the bit height right is trial and error -- hence lots of test joints. In contrast, the Keller cuts the side and the front separately, and there is a very easy way to set the bit height. If you're cutting the front, you put a piece of the side stock down on a flat surface, put the router down on top of the side stock, and plunge the router down until the bit touches the flat surface. That's it -- the bit height is set. It is so simple and reliable that even I can't louse it up.

[John Stevens]

Jig cost was nothing. It was all made from scrap.

Ralph, my hat's off to you regarding your clever jig and the fine results you got. The only reservation I have (and this is a recurring issue with me) is that material costs are typically small compared to the cost of our time. No matter how young we are, time is always running out. It's truly our most precious resource. If someone enjoys making jigs and fixtures for their own sake, more power to 'em. But if the motivation is to cut costs on the way to completing a furniture project, it's often a false economy to DIY instead of buy, once we account for the cost of our time.

[Jim Becker]

I'm with Ted, I keep the "best of the best" of the test cuts as templates for future setups and in that way, I pretty much only need to do one quick test on a new project most of the time...and like Per and others, I'm a Leigh D4 user.

[Allen Bookout]

Has anyone tried the Porter Cable 4210 or 4212 dovetail kit? It looks pretty straight forward but I am new to dovetails so I am probably missing something. 4210 at about $100 and the 4212 at about $150, according to April issue of Workbench magazine, is sure a lot less than the high end jigs. I realize that it is not very versitle but looks like that it might do the basic job. I do see one other possible downside as it requires a bit, 7 degrees as I recall, that is only sold by PC as far as I know. Any comments?

[jack duren]

jack wood..."For more money do the higher end jigs simplify this process? What I was expexting was a jig where you just put board A in one part and board B in the other and route away".......

sounds to me like you need an OMNIJIG... ive got both the leigh and the omni. but i wouldnt trade one omni for 2 leighs......jack

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Is 7 degrees an odd size? Jesada used to sell a whole bunch of different sizes, and I suspect Infiniti does the same. I have the PC4112, which has done just fine for me.

As to fiddling with the depth...I finally bought a dedicated router for dovetailing and just leave it set up. Eventually, I'll have to replace the bit, but until then I just mount the pieces and cut away.

KC

[Allen Bookout]

Thanks, Allen

[Keith Christopher]

I think I got so involved in talking about how versatile the 'Rat is that I didn't actually address the point of the thread. Alas, the 'Rat does come with a high quotient of "fiddlin'". I've gone through a substantial quantity of scraps learning how to get a moderately high degree of quality with the contraption. Now that my confort zone has been reached, I'm confident to put a good piece of wood into the 'Rat's clamping device. It is definitely not an "out of the box dovetail cutting wonder"..... at least for a person of my level of experience. There was a time that I questioned my sanity for the price of the WoodRat. Now that I'm accustomed to its perculiarities, setup is quick and quality is more than acceptable. I am, at this point, quite satisfied with the device and my productivitiy with it.

I'm glad to read this. I've always wondered about the wood rat. I think from your postings I am going to not get it. I just need a no frills DT jig, easy to use and a nice fit.


Keith

Oh on a side note Ron, your sig quote is incomplete.

"This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou cans't not be false to any man. " said by Polonius as his son Laertes prepares to travel. (of course Hamlet which was written by Wm shakespeare so really he said it.)

Sorry my minor was in Lit. :D

[Dev Emch]

After reading the posts, its clear that there are many ways to skin the cat which is a good thing.

First of all, I have to say that I do tails two ways. For kitchen drawer use and quick knock out jobs, I use the D-4 jig. When it really counts, I do them by hand with chisels, marking gages, and so on.

When you first begin to do these, you often start with the router based solutions. The focus is just to get something to work and not understanding the why of why it works. This makes setting up jigs a bit difficult and subject to trail and error. Just remember that there are two major solutions to keep straight. Through Tails and Lapped or Half Blind Tails. They are way different when using a router.

The first major problem you will encounter is the half pin placement dilema. Any of your fixed spacing jigs such as a keller or standard porter cable omnijig, etc. will have issues here. Your work may not be an integral multiple of the spacing of your particular jig. This means that you have to design your item with regard to the jig or your half pin placement will be wrong. So variable pin placement is vital.

The next item is the number of tails your using. You can always tell if a dodds tailer was at work because the drawer side is plum loaded with rough fitting dovetails based on its spindle spacing. On fine furniture, that is a sure turn off to any woodworking person. Your tails should be much larger than those done by a machine. So adjustability of tail width is vital.

Very fine antique furniture not only has large prominent tails, but they are often non-symetrical. A typical drawer will have 2 to 4 tails depending on size. If I need to hide a drawer bottom dado groove, the ability to readjust the lower tail is a good thing.

On high quality drawers, the drawer frequently has four sides and not five. This means that the drawer front has to be done accurately and that it contains the lap tails or half blind tails of the drawer. Doing it this way is much harder and often forces you to use half blinds on the front and through tails on the back.

But when using router jigs to make tails, you learn that the two sets of tails, half blind and through, use different tail angles. The finger angle on those fingers on your Leigh D-4 are no accident. They are designed for the typical through angle. So now, you have one angle at the front and another angle at the back. Those of us who like things simple and neat have an issue with this.

The reason there are so many different angle dovetail bits today is simple. In the half blind example, the router jig, the router and the dovetail bit are solving an equation literally. Because of how the jig is built and the fingers position in the half blind mode, there is only one solution for each major thickness. Even if you use slightly different thicknesses of stock, your depth of cut is fixed. You cannot selectively choose the depth of your half blind socket. That has been choosen for you by virtue of the bit your using. Move it up or down and you change your fit by changing the solution to this equation. And if your stock gets significantly thicker, you need to sink the socket deeper. You do this by changing your bit. You select one that has a deeper depth of cut but you also change your tail angle.

Most jigs are also limited to the size of tails they can cut. So its harder to cut those hunkin tails found in heavy timbers such as the skirt boards on a work bench.

Another flaw to jigs is the needle pin. Needle pins were used heavily in 18th century furniture both here and in england. A router jig cannot cut a needle pin because the support neck of the bit is to thick. Often, its only thick enough to allow a back saw to get into there. So most jigs can only cut half of this application... you get to cut the other half.

How about multi pins or hounds teeth. If these are through tails, then its possible to set up and cut these in two different setups. I have never done this on the Leigh D-4, but in theory, I think it can be done. As long as your tail angle remains the same which in a through application is a valid assumption.

So there are dozens of variations to the dovetail joint. Due entirely to laziness and speed, I have began using the Leigh D-4. But I am not at all proud of this. The reason I chose the D-4 was because I can set it up in such a way as to best mimick hand cut dovetails in the first place. If your doing lots of kitchen work, then the D-4 is a great way of knocking off a lot of drawers in a hurry.

But if I am doing it for myself, then I do it by hand. In fact, I hand dovetail both wood and metal. Metal is actually much easier to dovetail than wood because it is so forgiving. The metal tails are splayed both ways. This is done by cutting one set loose and straight. On assembly, you smash these loose and straights with a hammer in a process called peening. It mashes the metal into the nooks and crannies making the joint virtally invisable if your using the same metal for both sides. Its cooler than heck when you see brass and steel dovetailed together. Again, the angles for this are different than those used for wood.

That brings me to my last complaint about routing tails. Why do we need so many different dovetail bits with different angles? You dont. For wood, the old rule is this. For softwoods, use a 1:6 slope. For hardwoods, use a 1:8 slope. This applies if your doing through tails or blind tails. There is no equation solving by a super router computer gizmo here. Basic. Simple. Easy to remember. But it takes time to do dozens of drawers. And as i said, if its super high end or if its for me, I do it by hand. If its for a general customer in a kitchen, I use the Liegh D-4.

[Ron Taylor]

Kieth, I'm sorry I talked you out of the WoodRat. No question, pound for pound, it is an expensive "jig" if all you want out of it is dovetails, especially considering the DW625 that I dedicated to it. And true, it is not a "no frills" device. But, in the long run, I feel like I got way more than my money's worth from the purchase. For example... I'm just finishing a glider/swing project that by most standards here is a very simple, even crude piece. I'm replacing just the seat portion of an existing glider (the original base etc was still in good shape), so the goal is to duplicate the original. The arms are 2 X 4's bandsawn to shape, and supported by straight 2 X 4 uprights. On the original, the upright supports were butted flat to the arm and secured with 2 one inch angle brackets. Using the 'Rat, it was a chipshot to add one little touch of class to the project by using a mortice and tenon joint instead. I cut both mortices and tenons on the 'Rat. Setup consisted of inserting a straight bit in the router. Time involved in cutting the M&Ts was little more than would have been spent putting screws in the angle brackets. Fit was perfect, first time.

Probably no one but you, me, and the other Creek Dwellers will ever know that my customer has a better quality piece than he asked for, but then that is one of the reasons that I like just the first phrase of Mr. Shakespear's line from Hamlet :)

That line, as I use it, was engraved on a wooden plague which adorned the desk of my ninth grade English teacher. She was at least 150 years old with hawk-billed nose and voice to match. I learned far more than the use of the king's language from Mrs Boyd and have used HER quote for more than 50 years to bring myself back to reality whenever my ego rears it's head. I've always known that the Bard was not talking about self evaluation, but Mrs Boyd was.

[Keith Christopher]

Kieth, I'm sorry I talked you out of the WoodRat. No question, pound for pound, it is an expensive "jig" if all you want out of it is dovetails, especially considering the DW625 that I dedicated to it. And true, it is not a "no frills" device. But, in the long run, I feel like I got way more than my money's worth from the purchase. For example... I'm just finishing a glider/swing project that by most standards here is a very simple, even crude piece. I'm replacing just the seat portion of an existing glider (the original base etc was still in good shape), so the goal is to duplicate the original. The arms are 2 X 4's bandsawn to shape, and supported by straight 2 X 4 uprights. On the original, the upright supports were butted flat to the arm and secured with 2 one inch angle brackets. Using the 'Rat, it was a chipshot to add one little touch of class to the project by using a mortice and tenon joint instead. I cut both mortices and tenons on the 'Rat. Setup consisted of inserting a straight bit in the router. Time involved in cutting the M&Ts was little more than would have been spent putting screws in the angle brackets. Fit was perfect, first time.

Probably no one but you, me, and the other Creek Dwellers will ever know that my customer has a better quality piece than he asked for, but then that is one of the reasons that I like just the first phrase of Mr. Shakespear's line from Hamlet :)

That line, as I use it, was engraved on a wooden plague which adorned the desk of my ninth grade English teacher. She was at least 150 years old with hawk-billed nose and voice to match. I learned far more than the use of the king's language from Mrs Boyd and have used HER quote for more than 50 years to bring myself back to reality whenever my ego rears it's head. I've always known that the Bard was not talking about self evaluation, but Mrs Boyd was.

Ron,

It wasn't so much talked me out of it, it was more like prevented me from buying something I would probably not want to spend much time tinkering with. I am sure it works wonderfully, however, I just want a simple DT jig, that produces good quality without alot of tinkering. I know they all do but, this one seems more of a learning curve. I love that about this board, getting some real world feedback.

Hopefully no offense taken with my statement. that line is one of the few that I memorized over the course of a year and I was just presenting it that most don't know the last part of that statement. however both parts can equally resound to someone's character.

Keith

[Ron Taylor]

No offense taken whatsoever... in fact, flattered that you would notice my sig line.

And, I understand fully, your position with the dt jig. Good luck with whatever you decide on.

[Chris Mann]

for ron and frank:
I've been considering the woodrat, but the one question I have is how good it is for production work. like say cutting dovetails for 30 kitchen drawers? or is something like the leigh better for that? My shop is fairly small so the versatility of the woodrat is appealing and i definitely like the room for creativity it provides, but I can do handcut dovetails if I have too, it just takes too much time for most jobs.

[Ron Taylor]

That is really a tough question Chris. For purely repititious work where all of the parameters are consistent, a fixed jig just may be the best alternative. On the other hand, I believe a good operator who is accustomed to the 'Rat could probably out-produce most jigs because of the quickness in changing stock. In the case where the pins and/or tails or "non-standard", no question, the 'Rat would be far superior.

Another perspective is that the price of the woodrat is more than double that of many jigs, and more. Add a dedicated router and you have to really produce to get as much return for your investment as you would with multiple jigs. For just dovetail production work, buying multiple jigs would probably be the best investment.

If you are considering the WoodRat for production work, my recommendation would be to visit someone with a 'Rat and spend some time with the machine. Then you can make an educated decision.

If you are near Southeast Alabama or plan to be in the area, stop by, coffee is always on and visitors are welcome. My shop is my hobby and I love to visit.

[Dev Emch]

Chris...

When it comes to nonstandard pins and tails, you cannot beat the Leigh D-4. The complaints about the Leigh are the same for all router based solutions. In otherwords, you have to work the depth of the bit. Once set, reconfiguration of pin spacing is a breeze for varying items of the same thickness.

I did look into both a woodrat as well as a Leigh FMB jig. Neither one of these struck me as worth the effort. Personally I dont find either one of these difficult. I found them limiting and not that well made. Each one of these jigs tries to mimick the functions found in a milling machine. But short of providing you with a full bore milling machine, they have to place limits and their own complexities on the problem. The one router jig that best meets the versatility of a milling machine for wood has to be the multi-router.

But they all have significant limitations. Even the multirouter has some of the worst limitations. Short of having a CNC machine, the repitious and highly accurate placment of the spindle for each cut is not reasonable for a human. In the case of the multi-router, you can only do about 8 inches at a time using the fixed spacing template. Then you need to reposition your work using the the last negative tail and bit to key the work. And for it to do half blind tails, you need to reposition the router such that its in the vertical position.

This is a common theme. In order to do half blinds of any type, you either have to change the axis of the router or that of the board.

Even the omnijig is restricting. They released a variable spacing add on template for the omnijig; however, according to porter cable, it only does through tails and no support for a half blind version is planed. So you only get fixed spacing for half blinds.

All router jigs provide a mechanical solution for a CNC router. Some provide a quick and easy solution for a unique problem. As they become more universal, they become more complex. This complexity detracts from the woodwork at hand limits your skill base to the technology of one propriatary vendor. Often, you have to go back and re-read the book or watch the video.

The old fashioned shaper can solve most of these problems. Esp. when you can either vertical router bits or horizontal cutters. But the dovetail drawer may appear simple; however, from a tooling point of view, its one of the nastier solutions. Versatility and accuracy are absolute. And the solution I have found to solve this problem quickly and with ease is the Leigh D-4. Its the only router jig i own and the only one I wish to own. Everything else is relegated to the shaper.

Here are some problems to evaluate dovetail jigs by.

1). Standard kithen drawer using 6 inch sides, symetrical tail spacing, thru tails on all four corners. (basis case)

2). Standard desk drawer using 4.685 inch sides, unsymetrical tail spacing, thru tails in back with half blind tails in front with no dust overlay.

3). Furniture carcass case 23.5 inches deep with unsymetrical tail spacing, thru tails on top with half blind tails on bottom.

4). Eight foot front skirt boards meshing with 36 inch side skirt boards for a woodworking bench. Depth is 6 inches and material is 1.75 inch thick maple. Pin layout symetrical but uneven. Two wider outer tails with three smaller interior tails. Half Blinds on all four corners.

5). Standard desk drawer using 4.685 inch sides, unsymetrical tail spacing, thru tails in back with half blind tails in front with a dust overlay or front half blinds are recessed back into a rabbit.

These are all recent real world cases I have been or am working on. Let the dovetail jig battle commence!

[Frank Pellow]

I am still trying to decide between one of the Leigh ijgs and the Festool VS 600 Jointing Systems.

I had decided upon the Leigh D4 jig then two things happened:

(1) Leigh came up with the D1600 jig.

(2) I read Jerry Work's excellent manual "Making various joints with the Festool VS 600 jointing system by Jerry Work
VS 600 jointing system" which is available at the Festool USA WEB (http://www.festoolusa.com/) site under Applications & Tips.

Leighs D1600 makes what I know to be an excellent and very well documented jig more affordable (and it's Canadian)

Following Jerry's instructions make the Festool jig easy to use (which is, afterall, the way this thread started).

Now I am not sure which jig I am going to purchase.

[Dev Emch]

I just downloaded the manual from the woodrat web site. This is a PDF document.

I must say i am very impressed by the quality of this manual. Excellent illustrations and descriptions.

Like all jigs, there is a lot to master and this jig is one of the worst. But it does get into some of the issues I have had with variable spaced half blind tails. I need to study this manual a bit more to understand everything that is there.

In general, I think this is one that should be put on the short list until futher evaluation decrees it otherwise. It seems to have addressed many issues.

[Dave Richards]

I've been following this thread for some time and am pleased to see Ron brought up the WoodRat. I'd have done it if he hadn't.

I have had my Rat for about 3 1/2 years and I am extremely pleased with it. I have read many negative comments about it in that time. None of them by folks who have and use their Rat.

It is more expensive than most dovetail jigs but then it isn't a dovetail jig is it? Of course it does dovetails but it also does all that other stuff that the Leigh D4 can't even come close to doing. When I was trying to decide which way to go, I was almost swayed into buying a D4. I even got to the point of entering a credit card number on the Lee Valley site before I backed off to take another look at the Rat.

The Rat actually ends up as a better investment for a small shop when you consider all the other things besides a dovetail jig that you don't have to buy. Also consider the space not consumed by a mortiser and a tenoning jig. And what about something to make dowels or raised panels or box joints?

Since the Rat mounts on the wall, you could think of it as being always out ready to use or always put away. You don't need to clear bench space to set it.

The other day I was milling a piece of white ash to use as a trolling motor mount on my sailboat. I needed to put a 6" wide by 1/2" deep notch in one end. I could have nibbled out the notch with the blade on the tablesaw or put the dado set in the saw. I would have had to muck around with getting the blade set to the right height and then I would have made about 10 passes over the dado set.

Instead of screwing around changing the tablesaw over, I went over to the Rat, clamped up the board, chucked up a 1/2" spiral bit, depthed the router with a gauge block and cut the notch. Probably less than 2 minutes at the Rat. It would have taken me longer than that to do the setup of the TS.

The question of producing dovetails for drawers was raised. With the Rat you can stack up drawer sides and gang cut the tails. That by itself cuts production time. The manual shows, although I admit I haven't tried it yet, how to gang cut the pins too.

Then there's the HSS dovetail cutters and how nice they are and how pleasing the dovetail shape is compared to TCT cutters.

This is only my opinion but it seems to me that today there are much faster methods for securing two boards at right angles to each other than dovetails. With the adhesives that are available not to mention bits such as the locking miter bits or pocket holes jigs, there seems little point in making dovetails simply for their utility.

If, on the other hand, the joinery is also being used as a design element, then I believe a dovetail beats pocket screws, biscuits and locking miters hands down. But the dovetails should be pleasing in their shape. Personally, I don't find the fat dovetails made by TCT cutters a pleasing shape. I do like the ones I can make with the HSS dovetail cutters. They aren't quite as slim as I'd make handcut DTs but they are closer. Unfortunately, with any of the dovetail jigs on the market, you are limited to a specific cutter angle and to TCT cutters.

And that's all I got to say 'bout that. :D