Struggling with my 14" Bandsaw [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Peter Aeschliman

03-18-2013, 3:25 AM

Hi guys.

I've been putting tons of work into my 14" Jet bandsaw, trying to get the thing to give me decent resawing results... so far I'm coming up empty. For example, I just resawed some 7" walnut. The cut is extremely rough (massive saw marks). The blade must be waving in and out during the cut- while trying to cut an 1/8" veneer, I get low/high points where the cut with varies by up to 1/16". It's pretty horrible. Forget a halfway decent bookmatch. Yes, the saw will cut the wood. But it does it horribly.

I started down the path of upgrading the saw, and it's one of those things where once you do a few modifications, you think it will only take one more and it will work. Now I've put hundreds of dollars and countless hours into the thing and it still really sucks. I'm about to run it over with my car. I'm regretting wasting a dime on the thing.

What I've done:

-Carter bearing guides, top and bottom
-Carter "cobra coil" tension coil
-Riser block
-Carter tension quick release (didn't expect this to do anything other than add convenience)
-Carter Ratchet Rod (the threads on the OEM tension rod disintegrated)
-Shop-made torsion box style resaw fence
-Brush on the lower wheel
-Upgraded dust collection to 2 4" ports
-Painstakingly modified the upper wheel axle hinge by filing one side down and shimming the other to move the upper wheel in order to get the blade parallel to the guide post
-made sure the wheels are balanced by spinning them and marking the 6 o'clock position when they stop- the marks end up being random, indicating the wheels are balanced
-The upper and lower wheels are indeed coplanar

I'm running a Timberwolf 4 TPI 1/2" blade. I'm able to tension the blade just fine (using both the flutter method and the 1/4" deflection method). I ground down the back edge of the blade, and I wax it before each resaw attempt. The guides are set to ".002 of each side of the blade. The tracking is set properly with the the blade centered on the crowned wheels. The tires appear to be fine.

The fence is perfectly square to the table, as is the blade. I clamp the back of the fence down to the table, and it doesn't budge. The fence is as solid as can be in all directions.

When making the cut, I feed it slowly and evenly. I make sure to hold the workpiece firmly against the fence. I set it up so that my "keeper" piece is between the blade and the fence.

The saw passes the nickle test.

I've done lots of research on this topic, and I'm at a loss. The only thing left is to try a new blade I guess. Maybe I could put new tires on it... but I'm getting sick of sinking money into this piece of junk. I can't believe Jet dupes people into paying $1k for these things (luckily I bought mine used for significantly less).

Anybody have any pointers for me here? I'm reaching my limit, but the wife won't agree to purchasing that Minimax MM16 I've been lusting over :p

Thanks!!

Peter

Peter Aeschliman

03-18-2013, 3:32 AM

oh and here's fun fact for you guys. I put a dial indicator on the frame of the saw (on the table, I clamped a dial indicator vertical, so that it touches the casting right near where the blade comes out). I took readings of how much the frame flexed when tension was added. It flexed about .045" going from no tension to full tension on the 1/2" timberwolf blade. In other words, the upper casting (The part nearly parrallel to the table near where the blade comes out) is .045" closer to the table under tension than it is without tension.

I am able to get the blade to tension as I said. But I thought it was interesting to see how much the cast iron moves.

Tai Fu

03-18-2013, 4:21 AM

Which Jet 14" bandsaw did you buy? All the new ones seem to have quick tension, bearing guides, and brush preinstalled. If it was an older one without those upgrades I question the effectiveness of those upgrades.. I think the blade makes a huge difference and quite frankly, 4TPI is too fine for resawing 7" of walnut, 3TPI is more like it. I do not know about the frame deflection but I think it might be normal for a 14" bandsaw (correct me if I am wrong). I think your problem might be the gullet getting loaded. Get a 1/2" 3TPI bimetal blade like Olson MVP or something, you might get better result.

Also massive saw marks on a bandsaw (unless you are using carbide) seems fairly normal, in fact the wavy pattern is also fairly normal too esp. if you feed a little fast. Woodgears has an article on that. There's a reason why every roughsawn lumber looks so rough, and they're done on massive bandsaws.

Jeffrey Kibler

03-18-2013, 6:54 AM

Have you checked the drift on the saw? That will make a pretty huge difference when making a resaw cut and it is very easy to adjust for. Also are you cutting with the veneer between the blade and the fence or on the outside of the blade. In my limited experience you get much better results when the veneer is outside of the blade. I have had some problems with TW blades recently but I would think at only 7" stock the blade you mention should give a decent result. By decent I mean a straignt cut that needs a few passes through the drum sander. I have a powermatic 14" saw that has all of the components you mention above and I put the exact same blade you are using on my saw and cut some test pieces for you. See below for some pictures. First one is oak second one is maple. Don't drive yourself crazy trying to get smooth results on the bandsaw with a 3 or 4 tpi bandsaw blade, the piece should be fairly straight but it will always be "rough".

257376257377

John Lanciani

03-18-2013, 6:59 AM

...I'm running a Timberwolf 4 TPI 1/2" blade...

I know there is a lot of love for TW blades here but IMO this is your problem. In my experience they are about the worst blades you can get, especially for resawing. Try a Lenox bi-metal, my choice for your saw would be a 3/8" x 4tpi band, and tension it as high as you possibly can. Your blade wandering issues will be a thing of the past and blade life will be 5+ times longer.

http://www.woodcraftbands.com/Pricing%20page.htm (no affiliation, just my supplier of choice)

John Bailey

03-18-2013, 8:12 AM

I know there is a lot of love for TW blades here but IMO this is your problem. In my experience they are about the worst blades you can get, especially for resawing. Try a Lenox bi-metal, my choice for your saw would be a 3/8" x 4tpi band, and tension it as high as you possibly can. Your blade wandering issues will be a thing of the past and blade life will be 5+ times longer.

http://www.woodcraftbands.com/Pricing%20page.htm (no affiliation, just my supplier of choice)

I've no experience with Timberwolf blades. I use the Lenox bi-metal and get very good results. You didn't mention the age of your blade. If you've been doing much resaw work with a carbon blade, the blade may be dull. That would be the most obvious problem, but you've probably considered that. If it's a new blade, you may have gotten a bad one. It's rare, but does happen. On a 14" bandsaw the blade choice for resawing is critical. I would get a blade specifically designed for resaw. The set on most carbon non-resaw specific blades is pretty wide, so you'll always get a rough cut, but it should be straight.

You mention the 1/4" method. I would have to push pretty hard to get my blade to deflect 1/4". An easy push would get 1/8". When tensioning a 1/2" blade for resawing on a 14" saw, you're probably going to have to tension as much as you can. Crank it up as far as possible no matter what the gauge says. (By the way, I check my tension with a guitar tuner. E flat for a 1/4" blade.)

When I had my 14" saw I was able to get good results with a 1/2" blade, but I alwawys got better results with a 3/8" blade. Tensioning the 3/8" blade was easier on the saw and seemed to be less finicky with the set up. I'm one of those lazy guys that leave a 1/4" 6 TPI bi-metal blade on my saw 95% of the time for convenience sake. I only change the blade when I'm going to do a lot of resawing, straight work or I, simply, want a better finish. Because of that I do a lot of resawing with the 1/4" blade and get good results.

If you haven't already checked for drift, that may be your problem. Your results are consistent with that. If you have checked for drift I bet you've got a bad/dull blade.

Bill Huber

03-18-2013, 9:05 AM

I have a Jet 14" band saw and I use a 1/2" TW 3 TPI blade and have no problems with resaw, I do not have a riser block and can only do 6" but it does a good job of it. Now when I say a good job, I do get a rough cut but with a 3 TPI blade I don't think you could get a smooth cut. I have ceramic blocks and a Kreg fence, that is just about it

I have never checked the wheels to see of they are parallel, I center the blade on the tip wheel and don't worry about the bottom.

The things that I have found that make a big difference in my resawing.

The feed rate is one of the biggest things, I do not force the wood, I let saw do the work. If you force the wood though the blade it will want to wonder a lot.

I use stacked feather boards to hold the wood against the fence so it can not come away for it.

If I want a 1/8" thick board I will resaw it a little thicker and then run it though the drum sander to my lunch planer.

Andy Fox

03-18-2013, 10:04 AM

I heard someone suggest tracking the blade so that the gullets are on the center of the top wheel, rather than the blade itself being centered. The rationale was that this makes the front of the blade more stable if the tires have a crown in the center. The rear of the blade will wander instead of the front, but that has no effect. I haven't tried this, but wanted to throw it out as one thing to try. Or, maybe someone has already tried this and will comment on how it works.

Dick Mahany

03-18-2013, 10:07 AM

I have a 14" Delta and initially did many of the tweaks and upgrades but still had disappointing resaw results. I am using the riser, but I didn't see any appreciable difference in perfromance after installing it. I was using Timberwolf 1/2 4TPI blades. Then I bought a Woodslicer resaw blade from Highland and it was like day and night! Great blade, but as mentioned above, let the saw do the work and adjust for drift if you have it. When the Woodslicer wore out, I upgraded to a Laguna Resaw King variable pitch carbide tipped blade and it is absolutely wonderful, although some say you can't properly tension a 3/4" blade on a 14" cast saw, but in my case the manual allows it and the performance shows it. Couldn't be happier (unless I had a larger saw :D). Not sure about the Jet, but when properly set up, the right blade makes all the difference.

Curt Harms

03-18-2013, 10:19 AM

I too would try a different blade, preferably a different manufacturer. I've had pretty good luck with Lenox flexback and Supercut premium gold blades. Supercut makes resaw blades but I haven't worn the premium gold blades out so don't need more. I know it's controversial but I'd also look at wheel coplanarity. I just took a piece of 1/4" plywood about 12" wide with one straight edge and cut it into sort of a C shape so it fit inside the frame, around the wheel axles and table. I adjusted the upper & lower wheels so all 4 points touched. I run my band in the center of both wheels and get no appreciable drift. If I start to get drift I change blades first thing. That usually fixes it. Here are a couple sources, there are many more.

http://www.supercutbandsaw.com/products.html

http://woodcraftbands.com/

There is also a blade well regarded for resawing that I have no experience with. It's available from a few different vendors under different names. Highland Woodworking calls it woodslicer, Iturra calls it bladerunner (I think), Spectrum Supply calls it KERFmaster. I believe this is popular on cast iron 14" saws because it's pretty easy to tension adequately. The most common complaint is that they dull pretty quick but can be resharpened with a dremel.

Peter Aeschliman

03-18-2013, 1:22 PM

Thanks everybody for your very thoughtful responses.

The overwhelming feedback is to get a different blade. I did wonder about the set on my TW blade- it does seem really wide, which of course contributes to the rough cut.
The specific recommendations seem to lean toward the lenox trimaster, with additional recommendations for the Woodslicer/Bladerunner/Kerfmaster and the resaw king 3/4" blade. I think I'll start with the trimaster since I've seen that blade recommended a lot in other threads as well.

A few other things- yes I did adjust for drift (sorry, should've included that in my post). I had fairly significant drift actually. Now that I think about it, it may be indicative of a dull blade... but I really haven't used my TW blade very much... so I can't imagine it's dull already...

Tai- I have one of the old blue-ish machines. I bought it used 7-8 years ago, but it wasn't until recently that I began trying to make my own veneers. So I've just recently started demanding a lot from the saw... hence the recent upgrades and frustrations. Also, in terms of the deflection- yeah, it's definitely one of the common traits of an import cast iron machine. It's really only a problem if the deflection makes it so that you cannot properly tension the blade. I'm getting plenty of tension, so I don't think this is to blame for anything.

Jeffrey, your point about cutting with the keeper piece on the outside of the blade makes sense. I was cutting with it between the fence and the blade. I'll give that a shot. It makes sense to me that allowing the veneer to peel off to the right might reduce some of the tension during the cut and allow sawdust to clear more easily.

Feed rate has also come up. I might've pushed it a little too hard, although the motor didn't seem to bog down at all. I'll try going extremely slowly and see what happens.

Thanks guys!!

Peter

Peter Aeschliman

03-18-2013, 1:30 PM

Tai Fu

03-18-2013, 1:36 PM

If the blade is drifting more than just a little, and the cut is burning or difficult, the blade is dull. Resawing dulls conventional blades quickly because the heat can draw the teeth's temper, ruining the steel leading to premature dullness. I think carbon steel loses its hardness at 400 degrees (forgot if its C or F, probably F), while bimetal will not lose its temper until around 1200 degrees which is pretty much impossible to reach when cutting wood (you'll weaken the band and break it well before that), therefore for many hardwood it is the only option when resawing. Now if you're wondering why sawmills use carbon steel... I think they use a liquid lubricant or water when cutting logs, making heat a non issue.

I think one video where that Carter guy makes reindeers/snakes on a performax 14" bandsaw pretty much said you shouldn't have drift at all if the blade is setup right. If it's drifting it's dull.

Yes blades like Trimaster and Resaw king is expensive, they are carbide and lasts longer than bimetal. Not only that they tend to make better quality cuts too (like tablesaw quality). I don't know about woodslicer, they are designed to cut wood with minimal material wastage, when using 10 blades to resaw a single billet is worth it because it's pre-ban Brazilian Rosewood. In short, they cut very well at first but dulls very quickly because of their construction.

John Lanciani

03-18-2013, 1:43 PM

Yikes- the trimaster ain't cheap. Looking like over $150 for my saw. Is that correct? Wowza. I guess maybe it's because it's a carbide blade. The resaw king is $181 for a 105" blade too.

Maybe I'll look into the woodslicer instead.

Peter,

You should be looking at the Lenox Diemaster, not the Trimaster for your saw. The Trimaster will run on a 14" saw but it is very unforgiving of improper setup or tension. The Diemaster is a Bimetal blade and should be about $25.

Peter Aeschliman

03-18-2013, 2:44 PM

John Lanciani

03-18-2013, 2:53 PM

3/8" x .025 x 4tpi, tensioned as high as you dare. You'll jack up the upper axle hinge on a JET saw before you'll hurt the blade.

Tai Fu

03-18-2013, 2:58 PM

Furthermore thicker blade in a small diameter wheel will have reduced life due to metal fatigue... which is why 3 wheel bandsaw sucks so much because they have to use special blade that no one (but the manufacturer) sells and dulls much faster than Woodslicers.

John Bailey

03-18-2013, 3:46 PM

3/8" x .025 x 4tpi, tensioned as high as you dare. You'll jack up the upper axle hinge on a JET saw before you'll hurt the blade.

Agree this would be your best blade. I think Lennox offers both .025 and .035 Diemasters. I would get the thinner.

Peter Aeschliman

03-18-2013, 3:47 PM

John Bailey

03-18-2013, 4:39 PM

Hmm... I can't find the 3/8" 4TPI hook tooth blade anywhere in the .025" thickness. All I can find is the .035". I can, however, find the 1/2" version in .025".

So this conveniently forces my question. Thick and narrow, or thin and wide? ;-)

EDIT: now that I look at it, Lenox doesn't even offer the size I'm looking for. So it's either 3/8" x .035, or 1/2" x .025 in the 4TPI hook tooth.

http://www.lenoxtools.com/pages/Product.aspx?productId=Diemaster2r

Check with Iturra Designs. That's where I get mine. He doesn't have a web presence, so you'll have to call him. You'll also get great advice form Louis Iturra and get his catalogue, which is really a text/history book on 14" bandsaws.

Iturra Designs 904-642-2802 (tel:904-642-2802)

I know he's got bi-metal .025 blades. He can make them any length. He sells Starrett blades also, so, maybe I've got the wrong supplier. Either way, Louis will get you the right blade and, possibly help with your resaw set up.

Alan Schwabacher

03-18-2013, 4:55 PM

If you look on the woodgears.ca site for "The physics of resawing" he explains why you need a sharper blade for resawing than for other cuts. A blade too dull to resaw will be plenty sharp of other uses.

I wouldn't use a 4 TPI blade for resawing if I could get a 3 TPI blade. Carbon steel blades dull more quickly than do bimetal ones, but until then they cut fine, so you could find out which blade sizes and configurations you like on a cheaper blade.

Of the blades you mention, I'd prefer the 0.025" thick Lenox. One 3 TPI 1/2" wide bimetal blade available in 0.025" thick stock is the Olson MVP.

glenn bradley

03-18-2013, 5:01 PM

I'm just one of the many that have no problems with TW blades. I run a 2-3 skip tooth for resaw without issue. That being said, for 1/8" veneers I would run my Woodslicer which oddly enough has more teeth but a very mild set. Right out of the gate, steel blades like the TW blades are extremely sharp and outperform some other blades initially. They do not last near as long as more costly blades so you have to kind of figure out if the cost / benefit / volume ratio is there. I don't know that power was mentioned anywhere but 2HP is capable of resawing 7" walnut. As you go lower in power you must increase your patience which brings up another factor. When I am slicing thin pieces I move at about 1" per second on my 2HP, 17" saw. Faster feed rates yield rougher cuts.

Steve Prill

03-18-2013, 5:21 PM

I have a Grizzly 14" bandsaw that has worked well since I followed the advice of Michael Fortune who writes for either Wood magazine or Fine Woodworking. His article from a few years ago promoted basic setup techniques without modifying the saw. The biggest item that helped me was to make sure the blade is centered on the top wheel. He said it eliminates drift. It worked for him and me. I have never adjusted the fence to adjust for drift. I just set the table square to the blade and the fence square to the table.

He also suggested using low tension, narrow kerf, silicon something blades made by Starret(sp?). I used a 3tpi, 1/2", .025 blade from BC saw in Canada and it cut fairly well at low cost. I never tensioned over the half-inch mark with the standard Grizzly spring. I wanted my veneer to come out smoother so I switched to a Lenox Trimaster carbide blade when I added a riser block. Very nice cuts when making 3/32" veener. The blade is only adjusted to 1/2" tension or less. The bandsaw vibrates a lot after the riser block addition, but the cuts are still good with all stock parts. A caution with the carbide blade. Since everyone else promoted high tension, I raised the tension and broke the blade, ouch. So higher tension is not always the best way to go. While my Lenox blade was broken, I bought a Timberwolf blade. Horrible cut at any tension.

As suggested elsewhere, put the veener cutoff on the outside of the cut. If your wood bounces away from the fence, you will get a divot in your blank but not in your veener.

Steve

Jeff Duncan

03-18-2013, 5:39 PM

Here's my thought, go try out a Woodslicer blade as they are fairly cheap and cut really well, and see if your problems go away. Plain bandsaw blades dull incredibly fast...including the Woodlicer! However if you pop one in and find you have excellent results, you can then feel more comfortable spending on a more expensive carbide blade should you need it. I used several Woodslicers as they really did a great job, however I felt like they dulled so fast it wasn't worth constantly replacing them. I recently went to a Resaw King and it's pretty impressive.

Oh and as for the blade sizes...I've read up on this a little and it seems like the problem with wider blades is that they are thicker, and wrapping them around smaller wheels like found on a 14" saw leads to metal fatigue and is why they're not a great idea. Couple that with the inability to tension wide blades accurately, b/c the smaller saw frames are not so robust, and you see why most experienced people warn against using the wider blades. They'll always be a handful of guys using some super wide blade on a little saw claiming great results, I personally would go with what's well established. Also FWIW I've done quite a bit of re-sawing on my 20" saw with a 1/2" blade and I can't see the difference in the cut between what the 1/2" blade did and what the 1" blade now does;)

good luck,
JeffD

Myk Rian

03-18-2013, 5:53 PM

Peter;

I use the same blade you do. A TW 1/2" 3-4tpi. I tension with the flutter method.
The .045" movement you measured means nothing. All saws will move under tension.
I have a vintage Delta M/W with riser, and have no problems. The saws are similar.

Re-sawing is not smooth by any means. It will always require a planing method afterwards to smooth it.

Peter Aeschliman

03-18-2013, 8:20 PM

Thanks again, everyone.

Jeff, I like your idea of trying a different, but inexpensive blade first. I might go that route.

I've read a whole lot about carbide blades on 14" bandsaws and it generally seems to be a no-no. I would hate to spend $200 on a blade only to have it fail prematurely. That said, I have also read a lot about how much people love the trimaster and resaw kings on their 14" saws. Tough to reconcile the conflicting information.

Glenn, to your point about power, my machine has the OEM 1HP motor. I've thought a lot about trading up to a 2HP or 3HP motor, but if the only advantage is that you can cut faster, it's tough to justify the expense and hassle. The best deal I can find on a TEFC 2HP 1725 RPM motor is about $300. Plus I'll need a new switch and new wiring, and would likely have to cut a hole in the closed stand and fabricate a "bump out" for the bigger motor.

So here's the plan. Unfortunately since I do have a lot of different (but excellent!) advice in this thread, it means I can only pick one approach. It doesn't mean I don't value everyone's input!

Install a Lenox Diemaster II 1/2" x .025 4 TPI Hook tooth blade (rationale: with the upgraded spring/etc, I'm able to tension my current 1/2" x .025" timberwolf blade just fine, so I'm assuming I'll be fine with same sized blade in the Diemaster II)
Tension the snot out of it
Make sure my keeper piece is on the outside of the blade
Feed as slowly and evenly as I can
Expect a rough but straight cut

If the results are impressive enough, I'll consider investing in a more expensive carbide blade when the Diemaster gets dull.

I will make sure to pay all of you back for your advice with some before/after pictures and maybe even a video of the cut to get your critique.

Thanks,

Peter

John Bailey

03-18-2013, 8:30 PM

Sounds like a good plan. Looking forward to the pictures.

Jim Matthews

03-18-2013, 9:35 PM

Two things; if you're getting a shop veneer that's an even thickness at this depth - it's producing a workable output.
A little scalloping on the board should be manageable with a hand plane or belt sanding.

Are you cutting your veneer so that the veneer is trapped against the fence?
This means that you'll always have the same blade-to-fence distance but there's an increasingly rough surface against the fence.

Any vibration or misalignment will result in an uneven thickness in the rendered veneer.

I resaw with the same jointed face against the fence and advance the fence closer to the blade each time.
I use a modified thin rip guide (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18056&site=ROCKLER) from Rockler, so that the veneer is on the waste side of the blade and the jointed face is a constant.

I recommend contacting Louis Iturra for a quick discussion about what blade will best serve your needs. (904) 642-2802 EST in Florida.
There are less expensive resources, but I won't buy from anyone else. He'll set you straight, if you take his advice.

He recommended a basic Stanley blade which works well for most of my resawing needs, and much of the basic processes like ripping.

Jim Finn

03-18-2013, 10:59 PM

I did the same thing that Jeff Duncan suggested and he is right. I went through five woodslicer blades that cut very well and now have a carbide 1/2" three TPI blade and it is working well for me.

Curt Harms

03-19-2013, 8:33 AM

Re smoothness of cut. I think the amount of tooth set has a lot to do with that. Atlanta Sharptech stock blades - Woodslicer, bladerunner etc. I believe have little set. When I buy a new resaw blade, I'm tempted to try one of these. The band is .025", the kerf is .030. That should mean very little set.

WoodSaver Plus - available in any length, with 5/8" width, .025" thickness, and 3-4 Variable teeth per inch - This blade has a .030" cutting kerf. The WoodSaver Plus is even thinner and smoother cutting thanks to its variable pitch tooth design.

http://www.supercutbandsaw.com/woodsaver.html.

I've also found a featherboard on the bottom of the blank to be useful for keeping the blank tight to the fence when resawing. It's easy to see if the top of a blank is not tight to the fence when resawing. The bottom of the blank not being tight to the fence might be less obvious.

Peter Aeschliman

03-24-2013, 1:23 PM

Mini-update.

Yesterday I attempted another cut on the same blank (7" tall walnut, trying for ~1/8" veneer). I'm still waiting for my Diemaster... I didn't realize the vendor takes 10-12 BUSINESS days to weld the blade when I ordered. Oh well, it's a good time to practice patience... My wife tells me it's an area for improvement. :p I'll still take pictures and do the side-by-side comparison when I have the blade.

This time, I changed the following with my approach:

1. My offcut is the keeper piece. Meaning, the keeper was on the right side of the blade rather than between the blade and fence.
2. I used a feather board on the bottom of the workpiece (I knew I should've done this on my first attempt but I was being lazy)
3. Slowed down my feed rate dramatically. I mean, I went REALLY REALLY EXCRUCIATINGLY slow. The workpiece was about 36" long and it took me about 4 minutes. Again, a test of my patience. For the math nerds, that's about 6.5 seconds per inch. Yes, I wasn't kidding: S-L-O-W is the key word here.

In these conditions, I got a passable cut. Lots of saw marks, and a few places where the blade wandered by 1/32" or so, but passable. It would take probably 4-5 passes on the drum sander to clean up, which would be more than I would like if I had a valuable piece of crotch veneer or something- could make for a less than desirable bookmatch and unnecessary waste.

Remember when I said I was impatient? Well, I can't tolerate that feed rate. Even for the 1HP motor I have, that's ridiculous. So I do suspect a dull blade has just as much to do with it as power (again, it's a Timberwolf blade). It's shocking to me how little I've used this blade and how dull it is already. But at least the Timberwolf blades are super inexpensive.

So, I decided to dump more money into the saw.... The hole is getting deeper my friends! I bought the following motor yesterday (2HP Baldor):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-HP-Baldor-FDL3516TM-TEFC-1-Phase-Electric-Motor-7-8-Shaft-1725-RPM-230V-/300844296350?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460bb7a89e (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-HP-Baldor-FDL3516TM-TEFC-1-Phase-Electric-Motor-7-8-Shaft-1725-RPM-230V-/300844296350?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460bb7a89e)

I also bought a new pulley since the shaft is bigger. I'm going to need to cut out the enclosed base for a "bump out" (similar to a cabinet saw) for the larger motor. I have a MIG welder, etc so it will be a fun little project. For those who have an older Jet 14" saw, a 56 motor frame will work just fine. The motor shaft on the Jet motor is 5/8", whereas the shaft on the new baldor is 7/8". The pulleys are for "A" style belts, and the bottom pulley is 2.5" outer diameter. Easy to find a suitable replacement. I got mine at McMaster Carr.

Yeah, I know I've put a lot of money and time into this saw. I feel like I'm half metal worker and half woodworker now. Lots of modifications to get the thing working okay. I might start another thread on all of my upgrades. In hindsight, it would've been better to save the money I've put into upgrades (with the motor, quick tension release, carter ratchet rod, carter spring, riser block) plus all of the time (carefully filing down the upper wheel hinge to move the blade forward for guidepost alignment, which caused a chain reaction of having to cut into the upper wheel cover and build all new blade guards, etc) and put that into a new saw that is fine out of the box. But what's done is done. I had no idea it was going to take this much to get the saw up to snuff. Oh well!

Now I wait patiently. Lots more work ahead of me, but I'm hoping that at the end of it, I will have a saw that is worthy of a carbide blade and can cut high quality veneers with minimal waste. Here's to dreaming! If the diemaster does the trick, I'll consider the trimaster. I'm unsure about the resaw king since the smallest they have is 3/4". I don't think I will be able to tension a 3/4" carbide blade. Although the resaw king comes in .024" thickness, while the 3/8" diemaster is .032".

Anyway, this post is turning into a massive ramble. I have many bridges to cross before I need to think about that.

Pinwu Xu

03-24-2013, 8:30 PM

Yikes- the trimaster ain't cheap. Looking like over $150 for my saw. Is that correct? Wowza. I guess maybe it's because it's a carbide blade. The resaw king is $181 for a 105" blade too.

Maybe I'll look into the woodslicer instead.

I think the recommendation so far was the Lenox bi-metal, which may run about $30 for 1 piece of blade

Pinwu Xu

03-24-2013, 8:37 PM

John, that's more like it!

I have a question about their sizes.

http://www.lenoxtools.com/pages/Product.aspx?productId=Diemaster2r

All else equal, would you guys rather run a thicker, narrower blade, or a thinner, wider blade? Specifically, if I go with a 4 TPI hook tooth blade, should I do the 1/2" x .025", or the 3/8" x .035"?

My reasoning is this: The wider the blade, the more likely it is to twist. So wider blades have to be thicker to avoid the twisting. But, the thicker the blade, the harder it is to tension. Therefore, on a bandsaw that struggles to reach high enough tension, it's better to go with a narrower, thicker blade than a wider, thinner blade. Obviously I'd love to have a 2" wide, 1/4" thick blade but that ain't gonna work on a little 14" bandsaw!

Does this logic hold water at all?

The cross section of the 1/2"x.025" and 3/8"x.035" are very similar, and if you don't ever use the tension-mark on the
saw, you may end up with almost the same amount of tension. But the 3/8" is 4TPI, which might be too fine, and the
1/2" is .035, which might be too thick.

The other option is the Olson MVP that I think you can get 1/2"x.025" 3TPI.

Peter Aeschliman

03-24-2013, 8:41 PM

I think the recommendation so far was the Lenox bi-metal, which may run about $30 for 1 piece of blade

Yep, that's the one I bought. I'm waiting on it now. But if it works out, I'll consider carbide when the diemaster gets dull.

Pinwu Xu

03-24-2013, 8:42 PM

He also suggested using low tension, narrow kerf, silicon something blades made by Starret(sp?). I used a 3tpi, 1/2", .025 blade from BC saw in Canada and it cut fairly well at low cost. I never tensioned over the half-inch mark with the standard Grizzly spring. I wanted my veneer to come out smoother so I switched to a Lenox Trimaster carbide blade when I added a riser block. Very nice cuts when making 3/32" veener. The blade is only adjusted to 1/2" tension or less. The bandsaw vibrates a lot after the riser block addition, but the cuts are still good with all stock parts. A caution with the carbide blade. Since everyone else promoted high tension, I raised the tension and broke the blade, ouch. So higher tension is not always the best way to go. While my Lenox blade was broken, I bought a Timberwolf blade. Horrible cut at any tension.

Steve

Thanks, so this is another testimony for carbide blade

Tai Fu

03-24-2013, 10:30 PM

It will take forever to wear out a diemaster. It took over 6 months of constant use to wear out mine, and it wasn't even that dull either (it broke though). The blade length was 72.5" so for a 14" it will last nearly forever.

Larry Whitlow

03-24-2013, 11:45 PM

Peter, the link to Woodcraftbands in Johns post (post #5) shows the Lenox bimetal Dimaster 3/8" at .025. I think you were/are concerned that .035 is too thick. This would seem to address that concern, if I read your notes correctly. Anyway, thanks for posting this question. I've learned a lot about resaw blades and have probably avoided making a poor choice.

Take care.

Peter Aeschliman

03-25-2013, 1:00 AM

Jeffrey Kibler

03-26-2013, 9:17 AM

Peter Aeschliman

03-26-2013, 1:24 PM

Just took the time to catch up on this thread. I'm probably too late for this advice but did you ever consider selling your saw and just upgrading. You are dumping a lot of money in this thing and you could probably just upgrade. I went way overboard on my upgrade because I just went from a 14" Powermatic to a 16HD laguna, but there are a lot of 16"or 18" saws out there that will cut better out of the box than any 14" saw out there. I started looking into upgrading my guides to laguna's and getting a better fence etc etc then finally just broke down and said it was time to get a bigger saw. I knew I was looking to get 16HD performance out of a 14" saw and realized it probably wouldn't happen without a bunch of money. This is all just my opinion, and you already bought the motor..... so carry on :-)

Jeffrey, you're 100% correct. If I could turn back time, I wouldn't have spent a penny or any of my time upgrading this bandsaw. When I tally up the cost, I could've easily bought a good grizzly instead. I'm sure I'm missing some stuff here. But I could get a pretty good steel-frame bandsaw for about $1,500. If I were to sell my bandsaw after the motor upgrade, I'd be lucky to get $750. But with a good blade, it will cut nearly as well as a $1,500 Grizzly.

Here's the tally of what I've spent. I probably missed some things here.

Purchase Price (used, came w/carter guides)

$500

Riser Block Kit

$85

Carter Tension Spring

$20

Carter Tension Quick Release

$175

Brush for lower wheel

$7

Carter Ratchet Rod

$50

New Motor (with shipping)

$335

New 200v plug

$10

Zero clearance inserts

$10

Misc parts to improve dust collection

$30

Misc. other parts to fabricate blade guards

$30

Total "investment"

$1,252

Tai Fu

03-26-2013, 1:39 PM

Thing is, not all of the above are necessary to make good cuts, for example quick tension release.

Riser block is given, and you might need the improved spring (depends, only replace it if the original wears out... no sense in replacing a good part). Rachet rod is not needed either, it makes the saw easier to use for sure but doesn't improve cut quality. A new motor allows faster feeding and when selling the saw you can always put the old motor back and sell it as-is, then sell the motor separately. My inclination is see if it works, and only replace it if you absolutely cannot live with it. After all people have resawn with a .75 HP motor, just takes time.

The blade makes a bigger difference than things like urethane tire (which should not really be replaced unless the original tire wears out).

Just my opinion, but then I have a 18" bandsaw so there's not a lot of options for "upgrade" except for a bigger motor. My saw does not have a tension spring at all, just a square nut bearing against the upper wheel mechanism. I suspect they did it so that there's nothing to wear out.

Peter Aeschliman

03-26-2013, 2:43 PM

Of course. My point is that I'm spending a lot of money to make my saw perform (in terms of cut quality, cut speed, and ease of use) like many of the saws that have these features off the shelf for not a whole lot more money.

Tai Fu

03-26-2013, 2:56 PM

For me it was a choice between the Steel City granite 14" thing which is basically a Delta 14" clone with all the features (12" resaw height, quick release, brush, etc.) vs. a 18" for 300 dollars more that had none of those features... still went with the 18" just so I can have something with a bit larger wheel, giving me better blade selection.

Peter Aeschliman

03-30-2013, 5:36 PM

Alright, here's an update.

I got the 2HP Baldor motor in. I'm pretty sure I'm going to hell for all of the bad words I used trying to wrestle that sucker into place! I need to fabricate a cover for the motor now- in order to fit it, I had to cut out a rectangle piece from the side of the closed cabinet.

I also got my Lenox Diemaster II installed. I know I promised to do a comparison between the Timberwolf and the Diemaster. But it takes so darn long to get the guide bearings dialed in after a blade change that I decided to just go straight to the Diemaster.

I'm thrilled with the results. This blade produces a cut that is many levels better than the Timberwolf. I know I said the timberwolf might be dull, but frankly I've probably only put 100 feet of walnut through it. I can't imagine it was actually dull yet. I think it's just a crumby blade. I'm glad some of you like it, but it's not for me.

The 2HP motor is a major improvement as well.

Here's a cell phone picture with a very unforgiving raking light on the cut. Straight, and pretty clean. There are a few spots with a deep grooves that you might notice- these happened when I temporarily stopped cutting to readjust my feed position. So we'll call that operator error. The lighting makes it look worse than it actually is. It should only take 2 passes on the drum sander.

Thanks everybody for the recommendation. So far I'm loving it, and I'm finally starting to like my little 14" bandsaw!

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h255/peteraeschliman/IMAG0245.jpg

Peter Aeschliman

03-30-2013, 6:26 PM

And here are a few general pics of my setup. Like I said, I still need to get the welder out and fab up a motor cover.

258548

258550

Ira Matheny

03-30-2013, 7:53 PM

You mention re-sawing Walnut. Some walnut is very high in silica. This will cause a blade to dull out in as little as 10' of cutting.
Find a blade that will not dull out in walnut. BTW, the Laguna carbide tipped Re-Saw king band saw blade HATES walnut.

Alan Bienlein

03-30-2013, 8:15 PM

I know I'm a little late but I have the Grizzly G0555 with out the riser but can and have resawn up to 8" wide. I just got done resawing 37 pieces of walnut 55" long by 4-1/2" wide not quite 1/8" thick today.

Here is a picture of my resaw setup. Nothing fancy just the stock Grizzly fence with a wood fence I whipped up.
258561
I did my band saw setup just like Alex Snodgrass recommends in his video. Here is where my blade tracks on the upper wheel and the type of blade I'm using tensioned to the 5/8" mark on the tension gauge.
258566258565
And a few pictures of my results.
258562258563258564258567

John Bailey

03-31-2013, 4:19 AM

And here are a few general pics of my setup. Like I said, I still need to get the welder out and fab up a motor cover.

258548 258550

Hey Peter,

I know you've gone through a lot of hassles, but that is one nice set-up you've got now. I love your wood extensions on the table. I did that on my Delta when I had it and it worked out great. I particularly like your dust collection box.

Job well done Sir!!

Curt Harms

03-31-2013, 10:12 AM

And here are a few general pics of my setup. Like I said, I still need to get the welder out and fab up a motor cover.

Louvers with a fine screen on the inside :).

Peter Aeschliman

03-31-2013, 12:48 PM

[/CENTER]

Hey Peter,

I know you've gone through a lot of hassles, but that is one nice set-up you've got now. I love your wood extensions on the table. I did that on my Delta when I had it and it worked out great. I particularly like your dust collection box.

Job well done Sir!!

Thanks man! When I bought the saw, it came with a Rockler melamine/MDF table. It was heavy and extended the table quite a bit to the right of the blade. The poor cast aluminum trunions couldn't handle the leverage. But I needed more support for longer work pieces. So this is what I came up with. I made it out of some scrap Ash I had in the shop. It's working really well.

Louvers with a fine screen on the inside :).

Uhm, I'll post pictures of the cover I fabbed up later today. You'll quickly see that louvers are way beyond my skill level! ha ha. Although if I can buy some louver inserts of the shelf, I might do that later. It's already painted, so we'll save that project for another time. I probably should consider ventilating the cabinet.

I know I'm a little late but I have the Grizzly G0555 with out the riser but can and have resawn up to 8" wide. I just got done resawing 37 pieces of walnut 55" long by 4-1/2" wide not quite 1/8" thick today.

Here is a picture of my resaw setup. Nothing fancy just the stock Grizzly fence with a wood fence I whipped up.

I did my band saw setup just like Alex Snodgrass recommends in his video. Here is where my blade tracks on the upper wheel and the type of blade I'm using tensioned to the 5/8" mark on the tension gauge.

And a few pictures of my results.

Looking good man!