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loren cox
03-18-2013, 1:12 AM
I've read all the negative coverage on this forum of FSL, so I thought I'd offer up my experience with them so far to give a little balance. I neither represent FSL or have any ties to them, so please spare the bad mouthing for another thread.

I did all the research here and elsewhere, and given my budget of both money and time, settled on the FSL 20x12 5th gen. I didn't have the time to deal with all that is involved in importing from China/ebay or building a Buildlog 2.x, and I had enough in my budget to pay for decent software and reasonably local support. Can't afford Epilog/Universal/Trotec... someday maybe. So that left FSL/Hurricane etc. Given all the bad press on this forum and others it was a difficult decision. But I just couldn't find anything else that made sense in my price range. I hate their heavily moderated forum and their censorship of bad press. But, given my many experiences with the vocal minority on other forums and other large purchases like this (DJI multirotors for example on RCGroups)... I decided to take temper the negative press with the thousands they've sold with no complaints and the plunge to find out for myself.

I first saw FSL due to their kickstarter campaign, but didn't purchase one until early Feb this year. The lead time was 4 weeks until I got the call to come pick it up in Vegas. I live just south of Salt Lake City so I figured I'd spare myself the risk of the laser being damaged in shipping and drive 5.5 hours to pick it up myself. They were very accommodating and set up a time with me when someone would be available to give me a quick tour and a demo of the laser. The warehouse wasn't the neatest place I've ever seen and their assembly line sure wasn't how I'd do it, but after talking to a couple of the engineers and assembly people and getting a good demo, I was at least comforted that they were putting together a decent machine that was tested and well made. There was no shadiness or hiding of anything, they let me walk into their warehouse and talk to anyone and see the whole setup. That surprised me. After all of my questions were answered they loaded it into my car and home I went.

But to summarize... I have had to contact support once regarding a question about the beam combiner. My email was answered in 40 minutes, my phone call the following morning. Given this isn't a "my laser doesn't work" and/or "this is broken" type call, so I have yet to see how that will be handled, but so far so good. For a product that is labeled as "hobby" and not a professional level of price or product, this is about the level of support I'd expect. There are a few other very minor glitchy issues but nothing major and nothing that's stopped me from using the laser how I see fit.

Again, if you've had a bad experience with them, I'm sorry. I can see with their lack of internal organization how things could go bad quickly, and they certainly aren't the most customer support oriented organization in the world. Big picture wise I can now see how they operate. I'll keep this thread updated with any further support experiences.

As for the laser... It works well and works as expected. The software is much better than I anticipated and works well in Parallels running Win 7 on a Mac and printing from Adobe Illustrator. I've yet to ramp up to mass production of anything but am impressed so far. I'm a laser newb and am learning as I go, so again, I'll update this thread with any future issues. Thanks for your consideration.

Walt Langhans
03-18-2013, 7:33 AM
It's always good to hear other 'sides of the story' so to say. I would hope that after all the negative press that FS has gotten that they would change their ways and maybe they have and this is a sign of things to come. It will be interesting to hear what happens is you have any major issues, so please do keep us informed. Thanks.

Dan Hintz
03-18-2013, 7:34 AM
Good luck with it...

Frank Corker
03-18-2013, 7:43 AM
Loren. I have noticed that there are a number of laser engravers who have joined the site and are going for a less expensive machine, as you say, not everyone can afford the brand names. As more and more of the group are experimenting into lesser known makes, I'm sure your positive report will encourage others to do the same. Not all of the reports published are negative with the Chinese machines, I think the tendency is to over emphasis the ease of use with the more expensive machines and there are a few here that already have great praise for them. The fact is you pay for what you get. If you are limited to smaller budget, sometimes you have to work a little harder in learning just what makes your machine do it's thing, with brand names like Epilog, Universal, Trotec, you just put your piece in, set the depth. power, speed and dpi and you will probably get a perfect job straight away. Most of these also have excellent instructional information available in all languages and many examples/forums and backup for any breakdowns. You pay for what you get. The laser beam itself, probably pretty much the same, it's just how it is applied. Good report.

Dan Hintz
03-18-2013, 7:57 AM
Frank,

I believe the comments were intended more for FSL in particular rather than Chinese machines in general. FSL has acquired quite the bad rap with many here due to... well, for many reasons pointed out in other posts. Over the last couple of years us old guys have seen remarkable improvements in the Chinese machines, so only the real codgers still grumble about them as a whole. Loren is posting what I've seen many times, and that's a great initial dealing with FSL... whether or not that continues to hold for him (her? sorry, Loren, I can't tell from your name) when it comes time for support only time will tell.

Frank barry
03-18-2013, 9:05 AM
Hi Loren


Thanks for taking the time to post it is clear you put a lot of taught into it and I for one love to see the process people go through as they make there decision
good luck with your machine

loren cox
03-18-2013, 4:14 PM
Just out of curiosity... why aren't links to blogs allowed? I see my link was removed. I just didn't want to have to repost all of that here so I figured a link would be best. The blog has much more detail and would be of help to anyone else thinking of going with FSL.

Mike Null
03-18-2013, 4:35 PM
Loren

SMC is a family forum and by permitting links to blogs we risk linking to something that we do not approve or to content that is not in keeping with the standards of SMC. This is not to imply that there is anything wrong with your blog but you can understand our concerns.

loren cox
03-18-2013, 5:39 PM
Gotcha thanks. Would it be okay just to mention the name not in a hard link so others might find it? The information is pertinent and educational for other users. If not I understand. I'll just have to repost it all here.

Mike Troncalli
03-18-2013, 8:10 PM
Loren,

As someone who has had a FSL 40w hobby for over a year now with no problems and who has contacted tech support twice (software installation questions) and had immediate response from them I would love to read your blog.

Mike Null
03-19-2013, 4:50 AM
Loren

I think that would be ok.

Martin Boekers
03-19-2013, 9:45 AM
Loren, you can also request anyone to PM you for the link.

loren cox
03-19-2013, 11:39 AM
Great. Thanks guys. The blog is at "EarlGreyHot . org" Bonus points if you get the geek reference. I've been posting my experience there with software setup, first few cuts and there is a material database starting up as well which I wish I could find online from other users so we could pool info on what works and what doesn't.

Bert Kemp
03-19-2013, 1:12 PM
Hey I really hope they take care of you to. I had your exact same experience, drove to the shop talked with everybody very nice very friendly. Had minor problems called emailed everything just fine. Then the tube burns out in less then 100 hrs and the crap hit the fan with them. nothing but trouble ever since, now no power supply and they don't know me anymore. I have a $2300 dollar Boat anchor and no way of getting it fixed. As fas as I'm concerned they stole my money and are liars and thieves. They will never make it right with me as they have already showed that. Trying to intimidate me by making me sign a contract with them saying I won't say anything bad about them. Well I would say anything bad if they would just Honor their warranty and give me a power supply so I can get may $2350 laser working again. If I have to buy another laser from someone else I'm going to make a youtube video and blow up this Full Spectrum Laser. I will contact local tv to cover it also. That all being said maybe they will treat you right. Lets all hope so.

Mike Troncalli
03-19-2013, 1:58 PM
Loren,

Went to your blog. EXCELLENT WORK.... Great detail, pictures, etc.... I just added a new MAC 27" to my arsenal and running parallels of course... So I was pretty excited to see how you got yours working. I have an older machine so I am unable to do any network connectivity right now, but that's fine.. My machine is only a few steps away from my desk... I look forward to watching and reading your progress.

loren cox
03-20-2013, 12:57 AM
Bert, I've read your story and it does scare me. I can't speak to your experience as I haven't heard both sides but it certainly seems you've been shafted. What you say they did in terms of making you sign a muzzle contract in order to get support seems crazy, but you certainly aren't the first to say this so I'm inclined to believe it.

I've had this experience before with other companies selling tech to hobby market folks at lower prices and with horrible customer service because they were focused on industrial level machines with paid support contracts and had never needed to have customer service on a level that someone in the hobby market would expect when paying many thousands for a machine. It's a market perspective thing. In the end I had to weigh the numbers both monetarily and with numbers sold vs. numbers of complaints I've found.

That said, I'm with you. I fully expect a warranty to be kept and without a forced muzzle. Though, If my tube goes out in 200 hours and after my initial warranty is up, I won't be surprised as they make no guarantee on it. They simply state what their supplier rates it for. I didn't purchase an extended warranty or a premium support package. The warranty on their website is very clear and pretty limited. So to sum up, I know what I'm getting into and don't have unrealistic expectations. It's somewhere around a $1000 gamble I'm willing to take as I didn't have that extra $1000 at the time to purchase from anyone else with a more solid coverage on their warranty for consumables. If I have to buy 3 tubes I'm still coming out ahead monetarily speaking.

I learned a big lesson with DJI Innovations last year. I'll spare the LONG story but ... They didn't take kindly to my threats of spreading every fact of what had gone wrong with my purchase and how they'd treated me over many months of trying to get my issues fixed, so I swallowed my pride, worked my way up the chain of command nicely and politely and in the end came out way ahead in product and support. Honey vs. Vinegar. I'm not saying you are wrong or right as again I don't know both sides. I sure hope I don't end up in your situation, but lets just say I won't be surprised if I do. Thanks for putting your story up as a caution to others.

Andy Sever
02-21-2014, 1:14 PM
Loren, and others.

It looks like you have had this laser for over a year now. I am wondering what your experience has been over that time. Thanks for taking the time to do the write up both here and on your website.

(I understand this is an old thread and may no longer be monitored but I thought it was worth a shot asking).

Dave Gabry
02-21-2014, 2:00 PM
I've had my 5th gen FSL laser since last May, and I'm very happy with it so far. No problems, they've answered my phone calls/emails quickly. I do wish, though, that their forum updates were handled in a timely fashion.
Dave

Mike Troncalli
02-21-2014, 2:33 PM
I've had my 5th gen FSL laser since last May, and I'm very happy with it so far. No problems, they've answered my phone calls/emails quickly. I do wish, though, that their forum updates were handled in a timely fashion.
Dave

Dave,

The forum won't allow me to post a link here. But if you (or anyone with a FSL laser) want to PM me I will send you a link to a private owned forum just for FSL users. The forum is live so no waiting for your posts to be approved. Lots of great people there, very smart...

Bill George
03-18-2014, 8:40 AM
I was/am in the process of building the 2.x buildlog laser and now having second thoughts. I am now going to be involved in another project and now thinking of just buying a laser. What interests me about the Full Spectrum Gen 5 is the software and the price... its more in the range a hobbyist can afford.
The software looks to be first rate, not China sourced and hard to use. I'd like to hear from the FSL Gen 5 owners who are using the machine. The Earl Grey reference above goes to a non active website.

As far has having a tube go out and then later on the PSU for the tube go bad, I can fix that. Tubes can be purchased and so can quality power supplies.

Harold Shinn
03-18-2014, 9:36 AM
Loren blog didn't work, please send thanks Harold

Matt McCoy
03-18-2014, 10:39 AM
Hi Bill,

Want do you intend to do with it? It is a good laser for hobbyists and can be used commercially, but it is not without its limits and idiosyncrasies.

Bill George
03-18-2014, 11:38 AM
Hi Bill,

Want do you intend to do with it? It is a good laser for hobbyists and can be used commercially, but it is not without its limits and idiosyncrasies.

Engraving on wood, some plastics, stone and glass, maybe other things. Not going to be used for commercial everyday, but could if I decide on something. Pretty much did my research, so I know the limitations of a smaller less than 45 watt machine. Yes I have CNC experience and design work using Corel draw and other related.

Bert Kemp
03-18-2014, 10:10 PM
Well all I'm gonna say is for less money you can have one of Automation Technology's 50 or 60 watt machines, and there a sponsor here at SMC

Jerome Stanek
03-19-2014, 8:12 AM
Well all I'm gonna say is for less money you can have one of Automation Technology's 50 or 60 watt machines, and there a sponsor here at SMC

+1 on that I have one of their 60 watt machines and I am very happy with it.

Bill George
03-19-2014, 8:28 AM
Keeping all my options open, not sure what AT software is like but they answer emails right away.

Dan Hintz
03-19-2014, 9:11 AM
+1 on that I have one of their 60 watt machines and I am very happy with it.

Jerome,

You should do a review on their machines... I have seen very little (any?) posted on quality, speed, etc. If we're going to recommend them, we should know what the high points are.

Dave Sheldrake
03-19-2014, 10:08 AM
They look very much like re-branded Weikes Dan

cheers

Dave

Matt McCoy
03-19-2014, 11:38 AM
Bill, The FS software is one of the PROS of this machine. Tubes and power supplies will go out, but with your background and experience you will have no problems when that happens. It will be able to do all of the things that you mentioned.

Automation Technology is a good option too, although it does not look like you can get a 50-60W CO2 laser for less -- especially if you consider shipping. They do appear to be Weike machines, but supported by AT which is in Chicago. The company is well-respected.

Dave Sheldrake
03-19-2014, 12:00 PM
To be honest Bill I'd go with the AT system.

cheers

Dave

Bill George
03-19-2014, 3:36 PM
Yes, I just emailed John again asking about the control software. They are not far from me, maybe a 5 hour drive. I think the control software is LaserWorks but I swear he said LeadCNC which I can find nothing online about.

Dave Sheldrake
03-19-2014, 5:11 PM
LaserWorks / LaserCUT / LaserST all pretty much the same core program that's been modified to the sellers need Bill, pretty much all the Chinese machines use the same series of driver cards and controllers from Leetro (Step Servo) (6515, 6525, 6536, 6565, 6575(servo))

LeadCNC is a wholesaler of various CNC based bits of kit and software (Jinan Lede Cnc)

cheers

Dave

Ron Philman
05-20-2014, 10:55 PM
Automation Technology is a good option too, although it does not look like you can get a 50-60W CO2 laser for less -- especially if you consider shipping

Hmmm... I looked at AT. Emailed the owner about his 20x12 60W and at the time he didnt have what I needed. And his solution was below. Also, though he was very responsive they're apparently a China supplier being their own distributor in Illinois...


"If you need machine, we can ship machines to you from china office

It takes 30-40 days


We have 6 machines in China now and ready to ship out next week


Pls let me know or call me to discuss."

Directly importing to my door step? I'd check the return policy out.

Bill George
05-21-2014, 9:06 AM
Hmmm... I looked at AT. Emailed the owner about his 20x12 60W and at the time he didnt have what I needed. And his solution was below. Also, though he was very responsive they're apparently a China supplier being their own distributor in Illinois...

Directly importing to my door step? I'd check the return policy out.
[/FONT][/COLOR]



They also have machines in stock. I just got my Storm 500 from him, he had already ordered 6 of them. Had to wait until the boat came in, and then paid shipping from his Chicago office/ warehouse. Shipping cost was very reasonable, but I am only 350 miles away. I could not drive in and return gas price wise anyway for the shipping I was charged.

Jeff Montanye
08-23-2014, 7:11 PM
I've had my 5th Generation laser cutter for about 12 months now, about 2 hours on the tube and it quit cutting. I called FSL and they told me that the tube went bad because I don't use it enough. Anybody have any thoughts on that?

Jerome Stanek
08-24-2014, 8:00 AM
And they tell you to order a spare tube that will sit on a shelf unused and be out of warranty when you need it.

Dan Hintz
08-24-2014, 9:21 AM
I've had my 5th Generation laser cutter for about 12 months now, about 2 hours on the tube and it quit cutting. I called FSL and they told me that the tube went bad because I don't use it enough. Anybody have any thoughts on that?

This would be a prime example of why I tell people to stay away from FSL. That is a complete excuse. If it died within that time frame, the tube was faulty.

John Bion
08-25-2014, 12:11 PM
I have just recently fitted a spare 60w tube to one of my lasers, that tube has sat gathering dust for about a year and half now; it is working better than the original. I would be having some stern words with FSL about that tube and ethics, if that was their response.
Regards, John

Lenin Alvarez
09-15-2014, 12:58 PM
I was cutting a bunch of acrylic for a friend/customer, but because of his schedule I had to stay late and sometimes for personal reasons I could not stay and cut the stuff for him. He asked me for my opinion about Full Spectrum so I did some research for him, and I told him I would not get it, of course from a monetary standpoint this was his only option (besides China).

He ordered on friday morning and it was on his doorstep the next day (North DFW, TX) which was awesome. He asked me to give him a hand installing it.

Quality wise is not bad for the price, but the fact that the tube is an exposed glass bottle , chilled with water using an aquarium pump, is a little iffy. Besides the laser not being aligned it was an straight forward install.

Didn't play with the software too much but seems pretty useful, At this point I will keep cutting bigger pieces for him and hopefully it is a good investment since he would like a bigger one, I hope it works for the people that gets them, in my case I would not gamble with these machines.

Ron Philman
04-01-2015, 11:54 PM
Late to this thread but in terms of FS Laser review I've talked to support when available. okay. But, in the
last year FS' 2D lasers have really taken a back seat to 3D printers...add to that their support has always been
inconsistent...feedback seems that its good till you have a problem.

Automation Technologies basically has rented space in Illinois but from my dealings with them it appears they have a 1 or 2 man outfit.
But, they're really a China operation. Theyboffered to ship me a laser direct to my door step from China. So, they're not even going to
inspect it in the U.S? Anything imported like that - especially machinery - typically will have problems. Looking at their 'about us' and
'return policy' I'd stay clear especially when there's other USA based companies i.e. Boss, Jamieson etc. offer legit after sale service.

Just my 2 cents.

Jerome Stanek
04-02-2015, 7:32 AM
Automation Technologies basically has rented space in Illinois but from my dealings with them it appears they have a 1 or 2 man outfit.
But, they're really a China operation. Theyboffered to ship me a laser direct to my door step from China. So, they're not even going to
inspect it in the U.S? Anything imported like that - especially machinery - typically will have problems. Looking at their 'about us' and
'return policy' I'd stay clear especially when there's other USA based companies i.e. Boss, Jamieson etc. offer legit after sale service.

Just my 2 cents.[/QUOTE]

I bought mine from them and picked it up in Chicago. They spent a day with me showing me how to use it. I also had a controller go out under warranty and John sent one out the same day I called with the understanding that I send him the bad one back. I was only down one day as he got it in the system before his pick up and I had it the next afternoon

Ron Gosnell
04-02-2015, 8:14 PM
Maybe more positive posts and reviews will help us new guys lean more towards FLS in the future. As of now I dropped them from my list because of all the negative reviews.
I'm still hoping to upgrade my list of tools.

Dave Sheldrake
04-02-2015, 9:34 PM
I'm no fan of FSL to be sure but that said Hurricanes latest voyage into the laser market seems to be going to same way as the last attempt :(

Ron Philman
07-19-2015, 4:45 PM
This would be a prime example of why I tell people to stay away from FSL. That is a complete excuse. If it died within that time frame, the tube was faulty.

Can any one of you with RF tube experience verify whether this Full Spectrum glass tube claim is true or not? An excerpt of their this last email. I then asked them who makes their glass tubes and they won't reply. Contemplating whether to go glass or RF. I'm doing about 90% cutting with soft woods and extruded acrylic.

"Currently Full Spectrum is the only major US company to offer a glass tube system. All other glass tube based lasers on the market are going to be Chinese systems with Chinese control software being sold directly from China via ebay or alibaba or by a middleman company....RetinaEngrave makes our lasers as easy or even easier to use than the more expensive metal tube machines and also produces excellent raster and vector results of the quality level previously attained only by metal tube lasers.

Bert Kemp
07-20-2015, 12:50 AM
Full Spectrum are not American they are an import assembled here. There's several companies here that sell glass tube imports with US support .

Mike Null
07-20-2015, 6:48 AM
How many red flags do you need?

Matt McCoy
07-20-2015, 10:32 AM
Can any one of you with RF tube experience verify whether this Full Spectrum glass tube claim is true or not? An excerpt of their this last email. I then asked them who makes their glass tubes and they won't reply. Contemplating whether to go glass or RF. I'm doing about 90% cutting with soft woods and extruded acrylic.

"Currently Full Spectrum is the only major US company to offer a glass tube system. All other glass tube based lasers on the market are going to be Chinese systems with Chinese control software being sold directly from China via ebay or alibaba or by a middleman company....RetinaEngrave makes our lasers as easy or even easier to use than the more expensive metal tube machines and also produces excellent raster and vector results of the quality level previously attained only by metal tube lasers.

To the best of my knowledge, the first part of this is kind of correct. The Gen 5 (now H-Series) is designed and assembled in Las Vegas out of imported parts (including the Chinese tube). The RetinaEngrave controller and software is what is really being touted here, which is a true print driver that can engrave or cut directly from all popular programs. The tube is only referred to differentiate the type of machine.

The second part is debatable and stretching expectations, in my opinion. There are so many variables that it is not possible to make a statement like that. For instance, raster engraving and vector cutting are so different that each operation should be considered separately when assessing the abilities of a machine and how it will suit one's needs.

Dan Hintz
07-20-2015, 7:46 PM
"Currently Full Spectrum is the only major US company to offer a glass tube system.
False.


All other glass tube based lasers on the market are going to be Chinese systems with Chinese control software being sold directly from China via ebay or alibaba or by a middleman company....
False, if for no other reason than the claim of "all other" was shown as false in the first statement. You can't predicate a truth upon a falsehood.


RetinaEngrave makes our lasers as easy or even easier to use than the more expensive metal tube machines
False... and laughable. It may be better than the run-of-the-mill Chinese software, but to claim it's easier than machines like ULS, Epilog, Trotec, etc. That's just absurd.


and also produces excellent raster and vector results of the quality level previously attained only by metal tube lasers.
The owner of FSL posted his "quality" output samples on her a couple of years back. They were bad... and I mean, bad. I've seen new users create better quality samples, and he has supposedly been doing this for "years". I'm sure his systems could do better, but if what he posted was considered "quality", that says a lot about his view of what he expects out of his own systems.



It's all fun and games (or not) until you need serious help. After warning people away, I don't spend any time helping them when they go ahead and buy one of his systems anyway... "you've been warned" seems like such an understatement.

Bert Kemp
07-21-2015, 12:23 AM
Henry must be getting lessons on how to write ad's from that Glowforge guy hahahahah




False.

[/FONT][/COLOR]
False, if for no other reason than the claim of "all other" was shown as false in the first statement. You can't predicate a truth upon a falsehood.
[I][COLOR=#000000][FONT=HelveticaNeue]
[FONT=HelveticaNeue]
False... and laughable. It may be better than the run-of-the-mill Chinese software, but to claim it's easier than machines like ULS, Epilog, Trotec, etc. That's just absurd.

[I][COLOR=#000000][FONT=HelveticaNeue][I][COLOR=#000000][FONT=HelveticaNeue]
[COLOR=#ff0000]The owner of FSL posted his "quality" output samples on her a couple of years back. They were bad... and I mean, bad. I've seen new users create better quality samples, and he has supposedly been doing this for "years". I'm sure his systems could do better, but if what he posted was considered "quality", that says a lot about his view of what he expects out of his own systems.


It's all fun and games (or not) until you need serious help. After warning people away, I don't spend any time helping them when they go ahead and buy one of his systems anyway... "you've been warned" seems like such an understatement.

Ron Philman
07-21-2015, 10:47 PM
False.

[/FONT][/COLOR]
False, if for no other reason than the claim of "all other" was shown as false in the first statement. You can't predicate a truth upon a falsehood.
[I][COLOR=#000000][FONT=HelveticaNeue]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=HelveticaNeue]
False... and laughable. It may be better than the run-of-the-mill Chinese software, but to claim it's easier than machines like ULS, Epilog, Trotec, etc. That's just absurd.

[I][COLOR=#000000][FONT=HelveticaNeue][I][COLOR=#000000][FONT=HelveticaNeue]
The owner of FSL posted his "quality" output samples on her a couple of years back. They were bad... and I mean, bad. I've seen new users create better quality samples, and he has supposedly been doing this for "years". I'm sure his systems could do better, but if what he posted was considered "quality", that says a lot about his view of what he expects out of his own systems.



It's all fun and games (or not) until you need serious help. After warning people away, I don't spend any time helping them when they go ahead and buy one of his systems anyway... "you've been warned" seems like such an understatement.

Yeah, I thought it sounded a bit over the top. The fact I got no response when I questioned the 'canned email response' casted some doubts - now this confirms it. Thanks for the input.

Matt McCoy
07-22-2015, 8:56 AM
Originally Posted by*Ron Philman*

All other glass tube based lasers on the market are going to be Chinese systems with Chinese control software being sold directly from China via ebay or alibaba or by a middleman company....


False, if for no other reason than the claim of "all other" was shown as false in the first statement. You can't predicate a truth upon a falsehood.

Hey Dan: I'm curious. What are the U.S. companies that sell lasers that are not "Chinese systems with Chinese control software being sold directly from China via ebay or alibaba or by a middleman company..."?