Powermatic PM1500 vs Laguna 16HD

[Jeffrey Kibler]

I'm in the market for a new bandsaw looking for some real opinions on these two saws. I'm not interested in comments about the PM1500 if you have never seen it or never had the chance to use it. Every tool in my shop is PM, so I know what its like to spend extra money for yellow paint. Having said that, Laguna may be adding a shade of grey to my shop very soon. I picked these two saws because they are basically the same price range.

I'm wondering if anyone has some good technical opinions about the quality of the saws.

[Dave Fuller]

Most of my big tools are Powermatic EXCEPT for the Laguna 18" 3000 series I set up yesterday! I have seen the 1500 in person but have not used it (super nice looking). The Laguna was just a little bigger and a little less $$$. I also like that the guys at Luguna will horse trade a little and you can end up with some free blades and cheap shipping :) So far the 3000 looks to be perfect, easy to assemble and the Laguna guides are even better than expected. So my mustard shop has a touch of grey and I'm initially very happy with it. (PS - the Laguna Resaw King blade is just awesome, I'd suggest one for whatever saw you end up with).

Yours is a hard decision, but its what I'd call a "high-class problem."

[Jeff Willard]

It's hard to imagine a better guide system for the price than what Laguna supplies.

Jeff (who owns PM machinery, but has a Laguna bandsaw.)

[Jeffrey Kibler]

Ha ha yes it is a "high class problem". I'm suprised to hear you say that Laguna will horse trade because I'm having the opposite experience. They want to hit me $400 to ship the saw, but i can get it shipped for $49 from woodwerks.com. The whole package I'm looking at I can basically get $300 cheaper if I don't deal directly with Laguna. Makes no sense to me really. When I asked if they could match the price their answer was simply "no".

I really just want the best saw for my money and dealing with powermatic has been less than desirable lately as well. They will not even help me find a dealer within 250 miles that sells the saw so i can go look at it. They told me to call around myself. They are doing a horrible job of showing off that saw, especially when nobody stocks their products anymore and just direct ships everything.

[Jim Stewart]

I have a variety of tool brands with a 20" Byrd head thickness planer being the only PM. Very nice planer. That said, the most impressive tool in my shop is the 16" HD Laguna. Get the Laguna! The saw amazes me every time I turn it on whether it is re-sawing, ripping, cutting curves, sawing small logs. I always read about drift....I use the supplied fence (you don't need the driftmaster with this saw) when re-sawing and I just don't have drift. I am always amazed at the accuracy of this saw. I use it to rip boards because it is safe and fast and accurate. The ceramic guide system on this saw is just amazing. It has power to spare. I don't see how any brand could be better. Dust is well controlled. It is also extremely smooth and vibration free! Jim

[Jeffrey Kibler]

Thanks Jim. I have a feeling a lot of people are going to echo what you are saying about the 16HD and I'm not going to hear a chirp about the PM1500.

[Art Kieres]

Hi Jeffrey, I have the Laguna LT18 (same as the one you're looking at just a tad bigger) and it is AMAZING. The Laguna guides are the best I've ever used and the Resaw King blade is ridiculous. I routinely resaw 10" wide mahogany for book matched panels and the saw doesn't even flinch. One or two passes through the drum sander and it's essentially done. I've cut logs from trees in front of the shop, big hard maple boards, ebony into thin stringing... Great surface finish and more than enough power for what I do. It's a pricey saw, but I'm more than thrilled with it. I have lots of different brands in the shop, but for a new bandsaw I'll never recommend anything else.

Art

[David Kumm]

What is the price of the MM16 in comparison? That is the heaviest 16", Laguna is next and weight is a pretty good indication of frame strength. PM is the lightest of the three. Dave

[Jeffrey Kibler]

Hi Art. Do you have the LT18 HD or the 3000 serier. I only ask because that is another question that is playing into my decision about the saw. I'm wondering if the extra $1000 is worth the italian made HD version. My guess is yes but like I said I have nowhere to go to see any of these saws.

[Rich Riddle]

I have nowhere to go to see any of these saws.I have used both and would select the Laguna. I own several Powermatic tools including two Powermatic band saws. They aren't in the same league as the Laguna you mention, at least the Italian model Laguna. I wouldn't offer the same recommendation for the non-Italian model.

If you indicate an area where you live, some members who own each band saw might let you look at their saws. You're a few days late for the Powermatic sale, but it would have saved you 15%. One member here offered to sell me a used Laguna 18" a few weeks ago. He lives in the Indianapolis area. You might consider getting a used Italian saw and save yourself some money. They do pop up here and there.

[Art Kieres]

Jeffrey, I have the HD. I know it's a $1,000 more but I think it's worth it. It's a 50% stronger motor and evidently a bit stiffer (25% heavier). There are a couple things the 3000 series has that the HD doesn't. The main one that I cared about was the second dust collection port near the blade throat in the table. I'm assuming it's not there only because it's an older design. I drilled some holes through the blade guard that's there anyway, riveted on a plastic dustport, and it's as good as stock. I've never regretted buying a better/more expensive tool (especially a stationary machine). It was a hard decision for me as well (it's a $1,000), but I think just having the better motor is worth it. I do a fair amount of resawing and I don't even think about it, just shove the piece through and it comes out perfect. I see people in videos being all ginger and slow, and I laugh. I can do 3-4 boards in the time some people take to do one. I run a professional shop and when we need to resaw 40+ bookmatched panels it's one hell of a time savings. Spend the money once, done. They hold their value fairly well and will last a long long time. I don't know where you are, but I'm in Utah and if you want to come check it out you're more than welcome to throw a few boards through it (we'll put you to work). Let me know if you'd like me to take some pics of the saw for you (sometimes the Laguna website pics leave something to be desired). I would also suggest that regardless of which saw you buy the Resaw King blade is worth the crazy price and is resharpenable. Let me know if you have any other specific questions...

Art

[David Kumm]

The Bulgarian saws are more of a price point saw vs the ACM just as the Felder FB saws are a lower priced alternative to their ACM machines. Still good saws but a step down compared to the ACM or Centauro sourced MM saws. Dave

[Jeffrey Kibler]

Thanks again for the input Art. I'm in the Albany, NY area. I have been keeping my eyes open for a used one but I'm comfortable buying new if I have to. I take really good care of my stuff so if I buy it new I know it will last forever. If you have some pics laying around that you want to share I will gladly take them. You are making a very strong argument for the Laguna and that is what my gut was telling me.

Rich - Powermatic excluded the PM1500 from their sale. I called them and asked them why they did that, and said I would buy one on the spot if they gave me the 15% off and they said no. They also excluded the new drill press that I bought anyway. Powermatic is really starting to disappoint me. I ordered their new drill press a month ago and it hasn't shipped yet. Before I ordered it they said it would ship in 2 weeks. They now say it will be end of MAY!! So they have $1500 of mine and here I sit with no drill press becuase I sold my old one. I for the life of me can't understand why they don't update their website and offer some decent video and pictures of their products, especially when it is so difficult to find a store that sells anything anymore.

[Rich Riddle]

Rich - Powermatic excluded the PM1500 from their sale. I ordered their new drill press a month ago and it hasn't shipped yet. Before I ordered it they said it would ship in 2 weeks. They now say it will be end of MAY!! I for the life of me can't understand why they don't update their website and offer some decent video and pictures of their products, especially when it is so difficult to find a store that sells anything anymore.
Both Rockler and Woodcraft in Cincinnati have the Powermatic Drill Press and the Delta Drill Press standing side by side for comparison. I looked at them two years ago and settled on the Delta model after using both. Then an old Delta/Rockwell came up for sale locally. It wasn't even close to how the new ones are made; it's heavy duty and much better. I now have the old Rockwell in the shop and can't be happier. Lots of those old drill presses are around if you look and I guarantee you will get a much better drill press with them.

[Greg R Bradley]

Both Rockler and Woodcraft in Cincinnati have the Powermatic Drill Press and the Delta Drill Press standing side by side for comparison. I looked at them two years ago and settled on the Delta model after using both. Then an old Delta/Rockwell came up for sale locally. It wasn't even close to how the new ones are made; it's heavy duty and much better. I now have the old Rockwell in the shop and can't be happier. Lots of those old drill presses are around if you look and I guarantee you will get a much better drill press with them.
I am sure you are thinking of the Powermatic PM2800, a drill press that I bought and returned. I replaced it with a Delta 17-959.

The NEW PM2800B is a completely different drill press and does not seem to be shipping yet. It looks interesting but I'm not sure I trust Powermatic. All three new Powermatic items were either excluded from the sale or were already at an introductory price. Some vendors do actually show higher list prices, $1549 on the PM2800B, which is available for $1399.

[Rich Riddle]

I am sure you are thinking of the Powermatic PM2800, a drill press that I bought and returned. I replaced it with a Delta 17-959.

The NEW PM2800B is a completely different drill press and does not seem to be shipping yet. It looks interesting but I'm not sure I trust Powermatic. All three new Powermatic items were either excluded from the sale or were already at an introductory price. Some vendors do actually show higher list prices, $1549 on the PM2800B, which is available for $1399.

You are correct. I was thinking of the PM2800 and planned to purchase the Delta 17-959 in its place. Apparently you did the same but then sold the Delta drill press. Good luck on your purchase if you choose to go with the new Powermatic.

[Greg R Bradley]

You are correct. I was thinking of the PM2800 and planned to purchase the Delta 17-959 in its place. Apparently you did the same but then sold the Delta drill press. Good luck on your purchase if you choose to go with the new Powermatic.
I still have the Delta 17-959 and like it. I'm just not sure I like Delta anymore. I can use another drill press and would like 6" travel. I would also love the variable speed unit. I was seriously considering the Delta 18-900 but I'm afraid of Delta at this point. I hope they get it together. I have seen what Powermatic have done to a few of their tools but have some that are good. Hard to know who to trust.

If I buy anything, I will go to my local dealer and check out the unit carefully before I take that specific unit home. I've learned not to trust most companies with new tools based up their reputation on older tools.

[Jeffrey Kibler]

Yeah I'm waiting for the 2800B. They didn't ship any yet.

[Kelby Van Patten]

I have an older model Laguna 18LT. (Back then they didn't have three different 18" models, just the LT.) It has been a fantastic saw. I've been very happy with it. I installed a DriftMaster fence a couple years ago, and that has been a really nice upgrade as well. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[Jeffrey Kibler]

So now I ask myself is $300 extra worth going for the 18HD vs the 16HD. I will never resaw something 16" hight but the throat capacit migh be nice. I have never owned anything bigger than a 14" saw. I think I'm sold on the Laguna now.

[Art Kieres]

I did the same thing. I planned on the 16HD and then figured it's only 10% more for the 18.... Luckily, the 20 was another $600 so my rationalization fell apart before I got the LT37. :) The other day I ran into an issue where the extra 1.5" of throat depth was useful, but that was once in a year. Also, remember blades will be slightly more expensive, but not much. I just figured screw it and grabbed the larger model. I don't regret it at all. $300 over the life of the machine...

[mreza Salav]

Was looking for a 16 Italian, then talked myself into getting an 18. Then a 24" came up at new condition on the use market 600 miles away for less than half the price of what it cost me to get the 18". I couldn't pass it.
I think the $300 will be long forgotten and replaced with the joy of using a bigger saw ;)
As for blades, they are usually sold by length per inch. So there is not a lot of difference there.

[Jeffrey Kibler]

So i asked the sales rep at the store I'm going to get my saw from and he suprisingly told me the extra 2" wasn't worth the money and also added that the 18" model was on back order. So as a final step I went downstairs and measured my current saw (14" Powermatic) and one thing really really shocked me. The table on my new saw will be like a foot shorter than my current saw. I'm having a hard time imagining using a bandsaw that is as low as my table saw. Anyone have issues with this or am I just overthinking this and I'll get used to it.

[Art Kieres]

I forgot about that... I'm 6'1" and it is annoyingly low for small precise work. For ripping boards... who cares, but for detailed work it is a bit tough on the back/neck. I have the mobility kit which raises it a little bit. If I knew I had 200 small parts to cut out I might build a platform to raise it up a little, but for ripping, resawing, and the other normal stuff I use it for it's fine. I always thought the 14" saws on stands were too high personally. Again, good for small work, which they are great for but not for heavy boards. Will you be keeping your 14"? If so then put a small blade on that and keep a large blade on the Laguna and use each one for what it's best at. The lower table is nice as I keep just about every surface in the shop within an inch in height so that it's easier to move things around, use carts as outfeed support...

[Jeffrey Kibler]

Art do you like the mobility kit? I had one for my 14" saw for a day and returned it because it made the saw very unstable. The mobility kit for these saws looks very beefy. I really don't want the saw to wiggle around at all.

[Jeffrey Kibler]

While I'm at it do you think the dust collection is ok on the saw? I don't really care if the table gets dusty I just don't want to have to wear a dust mask while operating the saw. There is some dude on youtube that went through the trouble of boxing in the area around the lower blade guide to improve the dust collection. I'm not gerry rigging a $3000 saw to make the dust collection better.

[Art Kieres]

I like the mobility kit. It's on the saw, but I don't actually roll it around much. Very stable. I shove 8/4 hard maple, 6/4 cocobolo, ebony... through it and it doesn't budge. As for the dust collection... I mentioned my fix earlier in the thread, but essentially there is only one dust port very far away from the throat. I took the steel guard that's below the table off, drilled some holes in it and riveted on a small dust port. It works great, took 10 minutes and only cost a few bucks. I use it without a mask all the time. That's one of the nice things about the 3000 series is that it has the second dust port already. I think the HD is just an little bit older design and people weren't as concerned about dust then... I've use lots of old saws and all the dust collection was rigged on. I'll post a pic of my fix tomorrow. Don't let a 10 minute, 10 dollar fix deter you from an otherwise great saw. I'm trying to think of anything else... The dust collection annoyed me until I fixed it and I haven't thought about it since. The height isn't much of an issue for what I use the saw for. The blade tracking is phenomenal. It's a little annoying to have to adjust the drift on the fence with every blade change, but you have to do that with every saw. All the normal adjustment points are easy to use, the guides are AMAZING, the saw is super solid, it's cheaper than the Minimax, it resaws 14" wide boards without flinching, great motor...

[Jeffrey Kibler]

What year did you buy your saw? It is really really hard to tell from their terrible pictures but it almost looks like they changed the designa little to close that throat area up a little bit. It also looks like the lower blade guard used to be yellow but now its grey. What size dust collector do you use? Mine is a Jet 1200scfm.

[mreza Salav]

Most people use these bigger saws for rip and resaw, and for them the lower table is actually a good thing as you have better control (or at least I like it).
If you have the room keep the 14" for curve/scroll work with a thinner blade on it. It's a lot easier not to swap blades for that one cut and you won't be tempted to cut curves with your wide resaw blades.

[Art Kieres]

Here's my dust collection solution. It works just fine. I bought the saw last January (2012). Right now it's hooked up to a big cyclone, but when we had a small space it was hooked up to regular Powermatic, single canister (It think around 1200cfm). The small dust collector was only about 5 feet of metal ducting away and it worked great. We now have about 40 feet of metal ducting to the machine and then about 2 feet of flex hose to the ports. Metal ducting makes a HUGE difference. I wouldn't run it with more than a few feet of flex...


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[Jeffrey Kibler]

I'm sitting here with the LT18 and the LT16HD in the cart trying to decide which one to remove. Ughhhhhhhh. Such a tough life i lead i have to make this decision. If the 18" wasn't on backorder for a month the deal would already be done.

[Mike Heidrick]

It will be worth the $300 and wait for a larger table if it has one. What is the weight difference?

[David Kumm]

No one has ever complained of having too large a bandsaw- once they get it under the door. Wait for what you really want. Weight is generally the best indicator of resaw ability. Dave

[Art Kieres]

Jeffrey, Truly a high class problem... The way I see it if you get the 16" you might regret not having the table space, weight, and resaw capacity. If you get the 18 you might regret $300.

[Rich Riddle]

I'm sitting here with the LT18 and the LT16HD in the cart trying to decide which one to remove. Ughhhhhhhh. Such a tough life i lead i have to make this decision. If the 18" wasn't on backorder for a month the deal would already be done.
Where do you live? One of the Creekers has a LT18 for sale with loads of options on it.

[Jeffrey Kibler]

I live in the Albany NY area. After much thought I finally just forced myself to make a decision yesterday and I got the 16HD from woodwerks.com. Early to mid may is the ship date on the 18 and when you really compare the two there isn't a huge difference. I think i will be more than happy with the saw. The people at woodwerks were amazing. The guy i was working with was super helpful and knowledgable and was very familiar with both saws. I took his recommendation and got the 16HD because if i didn't i would have belly ached about this for another month. Much to my suprise he also had a PM2800B drill press sitting there, so i canceled my order with cpooutlets and bought that from him as well. Really great store if you haven't checked it out.

[Jeffrey Kibler]

I got the 16HD up and running and I will tell you all I could not be happier with this purchase. The pictures do the HD series no justice. This thing is an absolute beast. It brings a new meaning to the term heavy duty. Everything is so well built and so sturdy. It is a completely different class of saw than the standard 14 inchers. The weight keeps it firmly planted to the floor with no vibration. It took about 5 seconds to level it out with the leveling bolts which are awesome. The guide post operation is amazing and that thing is super super heavy duty and doesn't move at all when locked down. The laguna guides are wicked cool and the motor is a complete beast. I have done several cuts with it now and I will say I have no complaints about the dust collection. You get a little saw dust on the table but who cares. Certainly not worth modifying the saw in any way. 98% of the saw dust goes where it is supposed to and 100% of the really fine stuff goes away which is all I need. If anyone has any question about the 16HD or wants specific pictures of the machine let me know. If you are on the fence about a bandsaw like I was, the 16HD is an amazing choice and you will not be disappointed.