Looking to buy a laser cutter to help me start my jewelry supply business

[Brandy Butler]

Greetings Fellow Creek Members! :) My name is Brandy & I'm new to the Creek and grateful to have such resourceful advice at my finger tips. I know there have been several posts about which laser cutter to start out with, but I'm going to ask this question again because my niche market is a bit less industrial and more on the creative feminine spectrum.

I am starting an online jewelry supply company, I want the ability to offer various shapes and designs (acrylic & wood mostly) to jewelry makers. I know there is a market for this because I have been a consumer looking for laser cutters who sell the types of materials that I've needed.


I definitely will be targeting a niche market in the types of shapes & designs I will offer. Many of these shapes will appeal to a certain ethnicity. My jewelry store will carry more than just laser cut/engraved materials, it will carry beads, gems, findings, etc. However having these precut pieces will definitely be complimentary to my business.

My question is: Will a 30 - 50 watt laser cutter (some websites have referred to them as hobby) be sufficient enough for me to get a start? I am working with a limited budget for my initial purchase, but I feel that cutting out the middleman of outsourcing will help me to retain more profit.

Lastly, having a laser cutter would enable me to work with markets outside of the jewelry supply segment. I would be able to target various cultural aspects of various demographics, utilzing other methods such as Greek Fratenities/Sororities, wine glass etching, puzzle etc. I am working on my business plan at the moment & marketing is second nature to me. My educational background is IT, but I am a novice at graphics & no AUTO CAD experience. However, given my background & with a few tutorials, I feel confident that I could catch on fast. I also have an in house graphic designer that I could always utilize.

Bottom line - Is it ok for me to start cheap with my laser? Are Chinese lasers a No No? What type of utilities/functions do I need? I've probably said a mothful:D Thanks in advance for your help Great Wise Ones!

[Brandy Butler]

FYI - That should've read "mouthful". My price range is $1800 - $5000. I should also note, that I am interested in forming relationships with other vendors who can provide me with affordable wooden/acrylic shapes until I do purchase my own laser/etching equipment.

[George Carlson]

The Chinese machines can be quite good. I have a Redsail M900 which has been working out well. Stay away from anything called K40 or 40W Hobby. If it uses MoshiDraw, don't get it, life's too short.

[Martin Boekers]

Welcome to the Creek! Ahhh a fellow St Louisan. There are a couple of us here on the Creek! One of the Moderators, Mike Null
is close, Im at Scott AFB......

As for lasers, some here have good luck with certain brands, but Chinese ones tend to require a bit more hands on approach.
The standard USA modesl ULS, Epilog, Trotec offer durable equipment with great support. There is a thread here just for Chinese lasers so check it out. When you buy ask for a SMC discount as a couple manufacturers do give members one. There is an Epilog Rep in Columbia IL now so they are close. Check out the NBM show in INDY at the end of May. If you are interested in coming out to Scott AFB PM me and I'll make arrangemenst for you to see my shop. A wealth of info here at SMC!

Also some here have funded their laser through Kickstarter, that may be an option for you, check them out!


Marty

[Walt Langhans]

My educational background is IT, but I am a novice at graphics & no AUTO CAD experience.

It was exactly the same for me, and I've had very few issues and getting the feel for Corel darw (which you should be able to do pretty much what ever you need in) didn't take that long. My machine is chinese and again no major learning issues. If you have even half way decent IT trouble shooting skill you wont have any trouble adapting to corel, and / or a chinese machine.

The big question you should be asking yourself is how many hours a day do I plan on running the laser. If you are only talking a few hours a day here and there, then you probably won't have any issues with a 'hobby' machine. However if you plan on being in production then you need to look at something better, and by something better I mean laser tube. The hobby tubes use cheaper tubes that will not last very long under the strain of constant production. With 5K you can easily get yourself a chinese machine that will do the trick (mine was in that price range and I've been running it darn near 8 hours + per day 6 days a week since I got it up and running). You could also look at used versions of the 'big 3' trotec, universal, and epilog, but 5k tends to be more of a down payment especially for the higher wattage machines.

Hope that help :)

[Joe Pelonio]

I would go for at least 50 watts, I have 45 and cutting 1/4" is slow. For the many small items you would be cutting it could take all day to do a full sheet.

[Brandy Butler]

Thanks George. I've never heard of Redsail before. Is that the manufacturer's name?

[Brandy Butler]

Thank you Marty! I think I may take you up on that offer. That wouldn't be a far ride at all for me to come to Scott. I contacted Epilog, but their starter machine was atleast $8000 and out of my present budget. :-(

[Brandy Butler]

I foresee me being able to dedicate 1 - 2 days per week on production. Walt, what site did you buy your machine from & how long have you had it?

[Brandy Butler]

Joe, what size do you consider a whole sheet? Most of my pieces would have a 1/8 inch thickness

[Joe Pelonio]

In my case a "whole sheet" is 12"x24". For the 1/8" thickness it would go almost twice as fast as 1/4", but would still take hours at under 50 watts. That can be a problem because when cutting you really have to be there watching it at all times in case of flare-up/fire. You should not set it going and go to another room. If I remember correctly, last time I cut about 1,000
small 1/4" circles from 1/8" acrylic it took over an hour on my 45 watt.

[Bert Kemp]

Stay away from Full Spectrum. They have cheap machines that break down often, and they have a bad attitude with their customers.Crummy support.

[Roy Nielsen]

Brandy,

Make sure you budget for the "other stuff" that you may not have or may/may not be included with the base machine. Laser tube cooling, air compressor/pump, air exhaust or filtering, CO2 fire extinguisher (no mess to cleanup, won't damage electronics and other stuff), stand/table.

You should also consider the size of your raw sheet material before selecting a machine to reduce having to cut them before putting in the machine.

Also, besides new, start checking eBay, Craigslist, etc., for machines in your area. I found/bought a very lightly used machine, much larger and more powerful than I was looking for at a great price--less than the "good" hobby sizes--and have no regrets other than it takes up so much space in my modest sized shop.

Good luck,
Roy

[Nathan Shaffer]

Brandy,
I am buying a used ULS 2.30 25W from Engraversnetwork.com (ULS Vendor). They have been very patient with me asking questions and waiting on me to figure out how to pay for the machine. I am getting a full set up, laser, filter cabinet, rotary adaptor, photo program and shipping for $9040. The reason I decided to go this route is I could afford it and that ULS machines can be easlily upgraded to higher wattage lasers. Which I plan on doing once I save up more money.

Respectively,
nathan

Below is the link to the used machines.

http://www.engraversnetwork.com/used/used_equipment.html

[Mike Null]

Nathan

I like that company as well but you need to ask more questions about being up-gradable. You're more than likely going to have to buy more than a tube and it isn't as economical as it would seem.

Buying used is not a bad idea.

[Dan Hintz]

With that budget and wattage range, you have already (inadvertently) answered a major question, Chinese or Western... you'll need to go with a Chinese machine. It's a trade-off... you get a similarly-sized machine for less money, but in return you may have to deal with more frustration is keeping things running, potentially slower processing times (depending upon what you're doing), etc. It's all relatively manageable, but you should be aware of the trade-off.

[Walt Langhans]

I sent you a PM Brandy

[Nathan Shaffer]

Mike,
One of the main selling points that I liked about the ULS is that their laser tubes are interchangable. So the machine that I am getting comes with a 25 Watt Tube. But for about $2000 I can buy a 35 Watt Tube. ULS also has designed their machines so that you do not have to worry about alignment issues. Buying used was the only way I could get a machine and everything that I wanted to get with it.

Respectively,
Nathan

[Brandy Butler]

OK, all of this input is exactly what I need! Thank you everyone for helping me in making a well informed decision. I am definitely looking into unchartered territory for myself. I am glad that I can bounce ideas in this community rather than being solely dependent on a Sales Rep point of view. Most of my pieces will be relatively small, but I do want to have the ability to produce them in volume.

At first I was very interested in Full Spectrum, I really liked their Kickstarter story, website, American company, etc. However, given the reviews that I have seen in this forum, I have definitely reconsidered that option. Walt, I will check your message.

[Joe Hillmann]

Mike,
One of the main selling points that I liked about the ULS is that their laser tubes are interchangable. So the machine that I am getting comes with a 25 Watt Tube. But for about $2000 I can buy a 35 Watt Tube. ULS also has designed their machines so that you do not have to worry about alignment issues. Buying used was the only way I could get a machine and everything that I wanted to get with it.

Respectively,
Nathan


Nathan, Are you sure you are right on your price of up grading your tube? $2000 seems very cheap for a ULS tube. When I had looked into exchanging my 55 watt tube the exchange price was about $1200 but to upgrade to the highest power tube that could fit in my machine (65 or 75 watts, I'm not sure which) was about $14,000. So like I said that $2000 to upgrade your tube seems very cheap unless that is upgrading to a used tube.

Although you are right you can very easily swap out tube cartridges. You just disconnect three wire connections, lift out the cartridge, drop the new one in, re connect the wires and you are ready to run. Although I think the most powerful tube you can put in the M300 is 40 watts.

I do have a M300 35 watt and it is slow, and small, with only a 12x 24 bed.

[Brandy Butler]

Roy bought up another subject that I meant to touch on. What attachments & add on do I absolutely need? I figured that I would need a rotary add on & water pump system. I plan on doing the work in my basement (is this realistic?). What do I do to handle ventilation concerns and trash/mess?

[Joe Hillmann]

I don't have any Chinese CO2's so this is from what I have read here. With the Chinese machines some of them will not fire at under 10% power. On the lower power machines that isn't a problem but on some of the more powerful machines being unable to go below 10% wont allow you to do some delicate engraving. Hopefully someone with a Chinese laser will chime in and let you know if that is an issue you need to consider.

[Joe Hillmann]

Roy bought up another subject that I meant to touch on. What attachments & add on do I absolutely need? I figured that I would need a rotary add on & water pump system. I plan on doing the work in my basement (is this realistic?). What do I do to handle ventilation concerns and trash/mess?

You absolutely need some type of ventilation system. You can vent it outside as is, or run it through a filter and then vent it outside or back inside. It isn't that you should have a ventilation system, you NEED it.

An air compressor is needed if you have air assist.

The rotary is only needed if you plan to do round objects.

You need some type of cooling system that I assume the laser company will include a low end cooler with your laser and you can upgrade it for a price.

Just last week, for the first time, I bought some transfer paper. It makes my final products 1000% better and I would recommend you buy some.

A honey comb table also can make your products turn out much better.

Lens cleaning fluid and lens paper would be good to have on hand, they make for a safe way to clean your lenses without having to worry about scratching the lenses.

You need a computer and some type of drawing program. Most use CorelDraw. In Corel is where you do all your designing. It may be a good idea to get Corel as soon as possible so you can start learning. If money is a concern you could buy an older version of Corel on ebay for a couple hundred dollars. The only problem is if you get a copy on ebay if you get student copy you cant update it in the future if you want to at the upgrade price.

[Paul Phillips]

Hi Brandy, and welcome to the Creek, lot's of great info and great people as you've already seen. Here's another option for you for a used laser source. http://www.usedlasers.com/content/view/40/43/
Also, nobody has mentioned yet that financing is usually available from the US distributors so you might consider that as an option. In my opinion, since you are new to lasers, I would recommend talking to a US rep who can come to your place of business and set-up the machine for you with all the accessories and train you for at least a few hours how to use the machine, also, they are there to help you with any questions or problems, this is what the higher priced machines come with and for some, it is invaluable. If this sounds good to you, here are some contacts.
http://www.ulsinc.com/
http://www.epiloglaser.com/

Also, as many have said in answering this same question before, starting to learn CorelDraw will be your biggest hurdle, maybe pick-up a copy and start learning it, there are tons of great tutorials online.
Good luck, hope this helps.
Paul

[Martin Boekers]

As for what you need, a computer (maybe Corel Draw or not, some freeware out there, some machine have to use special software
Non- USA machines mainly) I highly recommend Corel. Dan Hintz posted on the sitet a while back instructions on how to create an air filter
cheaply. Do a search here or maybe Dan will post a link :) You can set up in a basement or garage as many here do, but while most
fumes may not be toxic, neighbors will complain, esp when cutting acrylic. So a filtering system sould be considered. You will
need a honeycomb or vector table for cutting. Rotary, I'd pass on right now. Its a big expense and lest you use it alot right away
I think money would be better spent on other items. If you plan on doing metal you will need a shear about $400. If you get a
water cooled machine you will need a chiller. If you import many here get an extra tube , lens etc as shipping can be expensive
later. See the sticky at the top of the forum about Chinese lasers. Many supply companies require a Tax ID to purchase from them,
some don't, many do. Check on insurance too as a laser is a fire hazard and you want to make sure you are covered.

[Richard Coers]

I suggest you not buy a laser at the start of your business. There are only so many hours in the day, and starting a new business will eat up a ton of those hours. Have someone else cut the first runs of the pieces for you. Lets you sell a fixed cost item. You will then be able to understand what sells, and production volumes needed. Then if you have extra time, shop for the laser then. Cash flow at the start up will be an issue. No need of blowing through $5,000 and then hope you got the right machine, or have trouble getting the Chinese machine to run, and not having anything to sell. You may find that you can get the pieces made for less than it will cost you, unless you don't consider your labor worth anything.

[Dan Hintz]

Dan Hintz posted on the sitet a while back instructions on how to create an air filter cheaply. Do a search here or maybe Dan will post a link :)

See my blog here... only one post.

[Nathan Shaffer]

[QUOTE=Joe Hillmann;2082897]Nathan, Are you sure you are right on your price of up grading your tube? $2000 seems very cheap for a ULS tube. When I had looked into exchanging my 55 watt tube the exchange price was about $1200 but to upgrade to the highest power tube that could fit in my machine (65 or 75 watts, I'm not sure which) was about $14,000. So like I said that $2000 to upgrade your tube seems very cheap unless that is upgrading to a used tube.

Although you are right you can very easily swap out tube cartridges. You just disconnect three wire connections, lift out the cartridge, drop the new one in, re connect the wires and you are ready to run. Although I think the most powerful tube you can put in the M300 is 40 watts.

I do have a M300 35 watt and it is slow, and small, with only a 12x 24 bed.[/QUOT

I am buying a VLS2.30 at 25watts. The quote was for a reconditioned 30watt tube. I would venture to guess that the more power, more money.


Respectively,
Nathan

[Roy Nielsen]

You absolutely need some type of ventilation system. You can vent it outside as is, or run it through a filter and then vent it outside or back inside. It isn't that you should have a ventilation system, you NEED it.

An air compressor is needed if you have air assist.

The rotary is only needed if you plan to do round objects.

You need some type of cooling system that I assume the laser company will include a low end cooler with your laser and you can upgrade it for a price.

Just last week, for the first time, I bought some transfer paper. It makes my final products 1000% better and I would recommend you buy some.

A honey comb table also can make your products turn out much better.

Lens cleaning fluid and lens paper would be good to have on hand, they make for a safe way to clean your lenses without having to worry about scratching the lenses.

You need a computer and some type of drawing program. Most use CorelDraw. In Corel is where you do all your designing. It may be a good idea to get Corel as soon as possible so you can start learning. If money is a concern you could buy an older version of Corel on ebay for a couple hundred dollars. The only problem is if you get a copy on ebay if you get student copy you cant update it in the future if you want to at the upgrade price.

Brandy,

Joe has great recommendations above.

Some of the U.S. resellers include a lot of the above items in their "professional" models prices, making them much more close in price with the "hobby" lasers that don't include the stuff.

Let me add that some/many/most of the Chinese lasers only integrate well with older versions of Corel Draw. Mine for instance can only work directly with CDR 12 (I bought on eBay). Also, the driver software will only run on Windows XP, maybe 2000, not Vista/7/8. I could use a newer version of CDR, but I'd have to save the file and import it into LaserCut rather than send directly to an interface layer. I believe most or all of the U.S. made lasers use a printer driver interface that doesn't care what software you use.

Roy