Hey, Festool, here are some suggestions for improvement

[Ellen Benkin]

I recently obtained a Festool sander (150/3) and a mini vac. I like both of them but I think there are some areas for improvement.

I would prefer if the vac hose had some sort of positive connection to the sander other than just shoving it on. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it doesn't take much for the hose to fall off the sander if it catches on the top of the workbench or even if I happen to grab it to maneuver the sander. I do know that the latter is verboten, but it just seems so natural.

As part of this set, I bought the "extra" systainer with attachments to use the vac to clean the floor. But if you want to use the systainer on the top of the vac, where do you put the very long and very heavy electrical cord? Would it be too much to ask for the cord to retract into the case? Or to design something so I could loop it around much as I do with an upright vacuum cleaner? Right now I carefully wind up the hose into the top of the vac and then pile the electrical cord on top of that. Once again, if I'm doing something wrong, let me know.

It would also be helpful if there were some sort of folding handle one could grab to roll around the vac. I can only figure out that I'm supposed to bend down (which becomes more of a pain as I age) and grab the vac by the top to roll it to where I want it. Maybe I should just tie a rope to it.

I hope someone from Festool monitors Sawmill Creek but if other users have some suggestions for me, I'd be delighted to read them.

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

You really should have purchased the CT26. There is a boom arm set not available on the mini or midi that will answer all 3 of your complaints. If it has been less than 30 days, you can return it for a full refund and buy a CT26. But then the boom arm set is another $375 plus another $100 for the 26. The boom arm will keep your hose off of your work piece completely, has a handle for pushing and has hooks in the back as you mentioned, to wrap the cord around.
In addition to addressing those 3 problems, the end of the cord and hose hang at waist level. You'll never have to bend over to plug something in again. That may sound small, but it makes a difference. A luxury introduced becomes a necessity. Like automatic "up" on your car windows and electric door locks. It will take your woodworking experience to a whole other level and you'll wonder how you ever got by without it.

http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/boom-arm-set-for-ct-26-and-36/p/M0114/

[Matt Meiser]

The hose should stay on the sander if you have the 27mm hose. The sander connector has ribs on the outside and the hose ribs on the inside that mate for a very secure connection in my experience. I've never had an issue with the hose falling off a sander. The TS55 saw on the other hand... grr. I'm wondering if you aren't pushing it on far enough?

The cord wraps around cleats on the back of the bigger vacs and they have an available handle (and support the Boom Arm which I love.) Sounds like you would be better served by one of the bigger vacs. Are you within the 30 day return window? That said, pics show that the hose and cord should store inside the top on a mini.

Festool has their own forum call the Festool Owners Group and several dealers and someone from Festool monitor that. I've seen Shane Holland from Festool post here as well.

Edit: Ha, Jim had the same suggestions.

[Julian Tracy]

None of your suggestions address his suggested improvements, all of which would be a welcome additon to the mini, especially considering the cost of those vacs. Sounds like when they tell you at the fog to buy a CT26 to have a rrp (lead safe rules) hepa vac. Far as I knew, when I bought my CT22 I was buying a hepa vac!

I would think anyone buying the mini would be doing so to have a small, portable, easily carried quality vac. Suggesting he return it and buy the 26 + the crazy appendage they call a boom arm would run counter to all the reasons to buy a mini in the first place. Not too mention the added $300+

JT

[Matt Meiser]

True, but carrying it was one of her complaints. Yes, portability is definitely a drawback to the boom arm. One could also make their own Mini handle and add cleats to wrap the cord on the handle.

[Ellen Benkin]

Thanks for all the comments. I do appreciate them. But suggesting that I spend another $400 to get the functionality I thought I would get with a Festool tool seems unrealistic. I thought the sander and vac were expensive enough. Also, I do not have the storage space for larger and more equipment. The mini is a great size for my needs.

I forgot to add that I would be nice to have the sander with a "flat" top to make changing sandpaper easier. Complain, compain, complain. Fortunately I will cheerfully admit that both sander and vac work well.

[Matt Meiser]

to get the functionality I thought I would get with a Festool tool

I guess I don't get this comment. You asked about specific things the tools clearly don't have, weren't advertised to have, and in some cases are offered on a different model??? About like buying a 2WD truck, then complaining that it doesn't have 4WD?

Like anything its a trade-off. If you want the small size and lower cost, you give up some of the features of the more expensive models. If you want a cheap tool with a bunch of extras, buy a Chinese-made one. Or return the mini, sacrifice on size, and start surfing CL for a used CT22 to save some money to put toward the handle and get the other features you want.

[Julian Tracy]

Not so much here, but I get tired of the Festool apologists that simply wipe away any complaint, no matter how valid as heresy... Not to suggest anyone in this thread is doing so, but I think think the OP has some good suggestions.

I wish the stupid cord wrap on my CT22 was a bit deeper to actually allow the cord to fit around it for instance. I'll either cut the cord down or extend out the wraps, but the fact remains there are quite a few obviously points on some Festool items that could've used a bit more engineering and/or real user feedback. Like vac hose connection on the domino getting in the way of gripping it, or the stupid way the para guides attach to the guide rails, or the way the TS55 vac port doesn't lock or tighten, the MFT3 guide rail front holder has +- 1/16th wiggle, etc, etc.

Most of the above things can be worked around (and are) by user technique or simple mods, but at the ever increasing prices of this stuff, it's at times surprising I'll agree with the OP on that.

You start pointing stuff like this out and folks either act as though you insulted their mother or advice you to spend more money!

Fact remains though, Festool makes the very best handheld power tools bar almost none.

JT

[Sam Murdoch]

I own the Midi and I must admit that getting the hose and the chord stored into the space provided requires close attention to the process. It can be done, but just barely and today after 5 + years of being careful I broke off the edge of the chord keeper - the little cutout in the frame where the 2 thicknesses of chord are intended to pass through. That was always a little step that required care but it will be easier from now on :rolleyes:. Anyway the Midi is not the Mini and so I can only guess that your storage is a "just barely" operation for sure. As for the hose falling off - that should not happen. I agree with Matt - it's never been an issue and should not be an issue.

I guess the getting old and bending down part of your problem is at least mitigated by the lesser weight of the Mini. Put a leash on it? Be thankful for the opportunity to incorporate limbering exercises as part of your work day? :)

[Greg R Bradley]

There is no one tool, even a vacuum, that fits everyone's needs. In Festool's current vacs there are really two different series, the Mini/Midi and the CT series of full-feature vacs. The Mini/Midi sacrifices function for small size and light weight. I recently bought a Midi, which is perfect for some of my uses, which is mainly on yachts. The Mini/Midi is small enough that there is no room for added features, which would only add to the weight and make it poorer for its intended use. I do think anyone looking at a Festool Vac should be steered away from the Mini/Midi unless they understand what they are gaining and loosing by making that choice instead of a CT series vac. I bought mine from Woodcraft in Stanton, CA and they did exactly that even though I was already headed that direction.

It also is worthwhile noting that the typical shopvacs with handles do not move around very well by using the handle. They fight you every step.
The Bosch had a handle and is better but is far from good. The newest Bosch units have dropped the handle.

To understand the hose issue, it might be best to look at the history of dust extraction. The Fein and Bosch originally had hard plastic connectors. They tended to use adapters that could come apart or twist and kink. Once they tried to kink, the suction would slam them into a kink position and the accordion on the hose would shorten pulling your tool on the work. We use the Bosch on Bosch concrete tools and they worked fine. I used Festool non-Antistatic hoses on my Feins to connect to Festool dust ports. Bosch has just redesigned their hoses and now lock into the vacuum port, like the Fein 30mm hoses, and copy the Festool tool end design that you are complaining about.

The Festool tool end works the best of all the systems that I've seen. It needs to go on 2-3 ribs onto the sanders to stay put but once on, it works very well. It adapts to ribbed round ports and ribbed oval ports. It also goes inside round smooth tool ends. The Festool large tools work OK with the 36mm Festool hose and also work well with the normal Fein and old-style Bosch hoses.

I don't understand the people that won't listen to any criticism of Festool. I think the extra heavy cord is difficult to handle even if it may be a result of the heavier wire required for our 120v circuits. It fits too tightly through the hose garage and needs to be clearanced with a rat tail file. I agree with Julian about the other complaints. We expect more when a product is that expensive.

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

The Mini/Midi sacrifices function for small size and light weight. I recently bought a Midi, which is perfect for some of my uses, which is mainly on yachts. The Mini/Midi is small enough that there is no room for added features, which would only add to the weight and make it poorer for its intended use. I do think anyone looking at a Festool Vac should be steered away from the Mini/Midi unless they understand what they are gaining and loosing by making that choice instead of a CT series vac.

Very well said, Greg!

[Matt Meiser]

I had a thought, but again it doesn't help you on a mini. For the larger vacs there's a hose hook. ts just a bent up piece of 1/4" rod. I had made one for mine but gave it to a friend when I get the boom arm. That was convenient for storing the hose--would imagine the same would be true of the cord, and you could have hung your tow-rope from it.

[Shane Holland]

Ellen,

Yes, we are monitoring the forum and care about our customers' feedback. There's actually a thread or several threads at the FOG where forum members offer feedback and suggestions for improvements. I know that our headquarters in Germany monitors that.

I'm not going to post "excuses" or reasons for the design of the CT MINI/MIDI, in fact any product has room for improvements. I think the CT MINI/MIDI meet specific criteria and goals in their design which may or may not work for you. Hopefully, you had a chance to look at and maybe even test the MINI before making a purchase so that you were familiar with the features, or lack thereof. If not, Festool offers a 30-day no-hassle money back guarantee that can be used to return or exchange a power tool if it doesn't meet your expectations.

The connection should be very strong between the CT and sander if you've pushed the hose on well, as demonstrated by Marc Spagnuolo in this video at the 3:35 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ld0auvaBNo#t=3m35s

Julian, although the topic of RRP wasn't addressed by the OP and a bit off-topic... When you bought the CT 22, you did get a HEPA vacuum. When the CT 22 was introduced there were no such thing as RRP rules. So the CT 22 was never designed or tested for guidelines that didn't exist.

We are passionate about designing the world's best tools and while they aren't always perfect, they are often still far better than alternatives.

Thanks,
Shane Holland
Festool USA

[David Helm]

I have, and have had, 2 Porter Cable 6" 335 ROS and a 5" 334 ROS which I wrapped a piece of duct tape around the dust chute. The 1" hose from my ShopVac fits snugly on this slightly modified dust chute. The ShopVac has wheels and can be moved around. I got all this for much less $ than the Festool. My PC sanders are all over 20 years old and still operate beautifully. I might add that for most of the years these sanders were used professionally so they all have many hours of hard use.

[Ellen Benkin]

Shane,
Thanks for your comments. I was not bashing Festool products, just making suggestions for improvements.

I watched the video and found it interesting. No, I can't put the hose on mine and spin it around but that is not what I want to do. I still don't understand why there cannot be a more positive connection between the hose the sander. I'm just not going to invest what to me is a lot more money for yet another piece of equipment when a seemingly simple connector would work.

As I said, I do like the sander and the vac. But almost every piece of equipment can be improved upon. Even Apple makes upgrades.

[Peter Kuhlman]

Hello Ellen
You may want to spend some time on the FOG - Festool Owners Group forum for tips and tricks. Many professionals who are heavily invested into the brand. Sure there are some fanboys but for the most part you will get honest feedback and like Shane said earlier, Festool does monitor the forum.

I have the Midi - a Mini with a slightly larger bag capacity, as well as the larger CT22 with the boom arm. As to the hose, I have never had issues hooking up to any of my sanders as long as I push it on a couple inches or more. It is a very snug fit and can be hard to get the hose end on the sander. The Festool regular hose - not the supplied anti-static one - is far more flexible. Also you can go to either of the big box stores and their hoses fit the Festool vacs just fine for very low cost if you would like the larger diameter hose. I have done that. I agree with others that the hose garage is kind of a pain - should be an inch or so deeper. And yes some of the sanders might benefit from having a flatter top to ease paper changing. I agree that an upright handle would be nice at times. The cord issue I guess is a result of our 120volt system in the US versus the 240volt system in Europe where they can get by with a much lighter smaller power cord and again I agree with you that a simple hose wrap would be nice. I don't use the top garage at all but my Midi stays put most of the time.

The thing with Festool as they say is the system. I never understood that until I ended up owning much of what they sell. Now it is very frustrating to go use other big name tools as they just don't work together like you get used to with Festool. Obviously you can achieve the same results with other brands for less investment. For people who appreciate quality stuff and don't like to be frustrated when using tools, Festool as well as a couple other premium high dollar brands have much to offer.

[Todd Brewer]

The Mini/Midi sacrifices function for small size and light weight. I recently bought a Midi, which is perfect for some of my uses, which is mainly on yachts. The Mini/Midi is small enough that there is no room for added features, which would only add to the weight and make it poorer for its intended use. I do think anyone looking at a Festool Vac should be steered away from the Mini/Midi unless they understand what they are gaining and loosing by making that choice instead of a CT series vac.


The Festool catalog shows that all dust extractors have the same size hose except the CT36AC, same noise level, same suction, and same maximum vacuum. So if you need to add boom arms etc. then maybe you need the more expensive models. For me the Midi works just fine. I added the Ultimate Dust Deputy and it is amazing! No need to pay an additional $110 (Midi vs. CT26E) or more for more dust storage capacity as the Dust Deputy captures almost all of the dust. Other than the ability to add a boom arm and ?, what do you get for the added expense? More dust storage is all I see. If you need to attach boom arms and such then maybe it makes sense, but I am happy with my Midi and if I had it to do over again I would still buy the Midi. The midi is only $50 more than the Mini, but step up to the CT26E and that adds $110, Id rather buy the Midi and put the savings toward an Ultimate Dust Deputy. The Ultimate Dust Deputy removes the need for dust storage capacity. Save the $110, buy the Midi with Ultimate Dust Deputy ~$200 and in the long run you will be ahead, you will save on buying new filters as the DD will capture most of the dust. Disclaimer: I am no fan of Oneida, but I do like the Dust Deputy.

[johnny means]

Ellen, I've been flogging my sander/vac combo for the better part of a decade. My hose actually has holes worn through, yet the connector/sander junction is still very tight. In fact, at this point, the hose/connector junction is worn out and routinely comes unscrewed. My point is, that if your connection seems to be inadequate, I would suggest that your connector may be defective.

On another note, I think your missing the genious of the Festool connector. Remember, it wasn't necessarily meant just for you sander. The form of the connector alloes it to fit a fairly wide range of ports. I use mine without any adapters to connect to at least five other brands of tools that use a different size port. A locking connector, in all likelyhood, wouldn't allow much flexibility.

[Larry Fox]

Interesting thread and I love my 150/3 but op did touch on something that I find VERY annoying which is that the ribbing on the hose causes it to seem to want to get caught on everything. The edge of the bench is perhaps the most annoying. I use a boom arm which does cut down on it a bit but it still happens.

[Sam Murdoch]

Larry - I have read that people use this product to overcome the hose ribs catching thing - http://www.cabletiesandmore.com/ExpandableSleeving.php
I might do this someday but it is an extra expense that always gets bumped to the bottom of my list in favor of more urgent needs. :)

[Julian Tracy]

Yep - a better outer hose housing would be the ultimate match for those fancy tools. Even the silly hose guide for the rail is only half-useful. For instance, if the TS saw's dust port was locking or allowed to be tightened, most of the hose management issues would go away as the angle of it could help to clear the hose of any obstructions.

I always think it's funny that though the Festool's really shine for jobsite use - most folks who use the boom arm probably use it in their home shops in pretty much stationary positions. Heck a $1 bungie cord hanging from ceiling will give you 85% of the functionality of the boom arm, and I'll be you can even find them in Festool green!

Though I appreciate good quality tools and have quite a few of the green and black ones, I do require the cost/value proportion to be highly weighed to the value side. But then I might be working with a slimmer wallet than most Festool aficionados... no doubt that aside from skilled tradesman, their target demographic is well-heeled hobbyists.

Jt

[Greg R Bradley]

Ribbing catching on edges is pretty much universal for vac hoses. The only one I've seen with a smooth outside is the one on my Jamco. It definitely seems to make it less flexible. You solve one problem and create another. It makes sense on the Jamco, which is a 35amp commercial unit designed to pick up wet messy stuff as well as dry.

I tried the sleeving and found it worked well for some uses. I think if you have one vac hose, you are likely to remove it. It makes it much less flexible. It now scratches fine finishes. I do like the ability to dedicate one Festool power cord and tie it permanently to that hose. I assume when Festool gets all their tools converted over to the PlugIt system, there may be a hose that includes the power cord, just like many air sander hoses do including Festool.

I use the sleeve in the one place I have my version of a boom arm. It's way more expensive than Julian's $1 bungee cord at $6 since we used three $2 rubber bungee cords. I would say it is ten times better than a boom arm. I would say the boom arm could be justifiable in a semi-portable setup.

If somebody thinks that the boom arm option is the main justification for a CT over a Mini/Midi then I have to assume they are reading specifications online and have not used both at the same time. Festool seems to work at having dealers that know their products and can advise you well. If you have to buy online, there are still several excellent dealers that can give you excellent advice. Just one of the reasons for the CT series is the OP's complaint about rolling it around. If cost is a justification to go with the smaller unit, then a Fein bought onsale makes more sense for most uses. I paid around $300 each for the last two, a Turbo II HEPA, and a Turbo III.

[Todd Brewer]

Yep - a better outer hose housing would be the ultimate match for those fancy tools. snip

Jt

I couldn't agree more. Did Festool intentionally design this vacuum hose to hang up on edges of material? I think they want to sell you the boom arm (and a vac bigger than the Midi to support it). More $$$ to Festool. I curse Festool every time I use the vacuum because the hose is constantly hanging up. They have to know this is an issue. Yes there are after market fixes, but at these prices that shouldn't be necessary.

Don't get me wrong, I love some of my Festools, but not everything is the cat's meow.

[johnny means]

Has anyone actually ever seen a vac hose thats not corrugated in some manner. Seems to me there aren't a lot of ways to make a light, flexible hose that doesn't collapse under suction. We're supposed to be the handy crowd, right? Not every single issue can be solved with a gadget or product. I drape my hose around the forearm once, no more snags and didn't cost a dime.

[Andrew Joiner]

I drape my hose around the forearm once, no more snags and didn't cost a dime.
I searched Festool and they don't make a forearm:). Great idea Johnny.