How much trouble do I get into replacing a parallelogram bushing?

[Ken Platt]

Folks - l just took delivery of a Grizzly 0609X 12 inch jointer, (which Grizzly was sending me to replace my 8" jointer that had a warped infeed lip; see the thread here:http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?199994-New-grizz-jointer-adjustment-does-this-sound-ok-to-do&highlight=platt)
The top of the crate was splintered, there was some minor cosmetic damage to the cutterhead guard right under that spot, but the machine looked ok. However, I found that one of the parallelogram bushings was out and just laying in the bottom of the crate. The bushing that was out is the one from the back of the infeed table, farthest away from the cutterhead. The bushing also appears damaged, see photos. The machine otherwise appears fine, so I don't see how this could have been caused by the shipping.

I called Grizzly to ask what this might mean in terms of damage to the adjusting mechanism, and how do I put it back in the correct alignment (the rotational position), and could they send me another bushing since this one was damaged. Mostly the tech said I needed to finish uncrating the machine and set it up to see whether there was additional damage. He didn't ask me to check this, but after getting off the phone it occurred to me to check the set screws, and sure enough, there was only 1 in that bushing's set screw hole, not the 2 that are supposed to be there.

I guess I was hoping for advice that was a little firmer on how much difficulty there might be in putting the thing back in and getting the tables aligned. If this seems likely to be a huge endeavor, I'd like to have some idea of that up front. So I'd appreciated hearing thoughts on this, as I've not worked with this sort of adjusting mechanism before. Also, what would I be looking for in terms of other damage?

I can't check the tables for coplanarity as the infeed table is way down low and I shouldn't move it until I get the new bushing, right?

I'd really love to hear that this is nothing and an easy fix, but would appreciated thoughts and advice.

Ken

[Jeff Duncan]

I don't have a Grizzly, but parallelogram jointers in general are fairly simple to adjust. You just need a good dependable straight edge, (not a 4' cheapy level from the local box store), and some time and patience. Grizzly should be able to provide you with directions as to how to go through the process for their particular machine.

As far as the bushing your well within your right to have them ship you a new one. However, for the real world use that bushing sees, I'd be just as likely to file the burr smooth, re-install it and get my new toy running. It's not going to affect use or accuracy one bit.

good luck,
JeffD

[Matt Day]

You're going to have to do a full table check for coplanar anyway since you have to replace the lik and you should do it anyway to make sure it's setup right. Replacing the bushing shouldn't be a problem or issue - I think it pops right in.
Did you just find the bushing now? Seems odd since you posted the other thread a week and a half ago. Did you find anything else in there?!

[Ken Platt]

Thanks for the replies, folks.

Matt, this is a different (new) machine. I haven't tried to push in the bushing I have since it is damaged, so I do not know if it just pops in. I guess that's one of the things I was hoping someone would weight in on.


Jeff, I guess what worries me is the "time and patience" part; the manual says something similar. I've gotten the sense that adjusting these tables is a very fiddly, difficult task. Routine sorts of adjustments aren't an issue, of course. I'm just not sure which this is. Have you had occasion to fiddle with parallelogram adjusting tables?

I thought about just using the bushing as is (there's really no burr to file off, even though it looks as though there should be) but I guess I was thinking that this one one of those parts that had to be perfect, otherwise you'd never be able to adjust the tables properly. Am I mistaken on that?

Ken

[Richard Coers]

Hey Ken, Maybe they will send you a 16" jointer as an upgrade for another bad machine! Have you checked the tables for flatness yet? Do you have a good straight edge? If not, find someone that will joint a piece of 6/4 stock and work with that to get close. I like the width of a piece of stock like that so it will stand while I move about and adjust the tables. Check the castings very carefully around the other bushings since that thing was really bounced around for that bushing to fall out. It may have loaded the casting on the opposite side after the bushing fell out and cracked it. You're going to be a Grizzly jointer rebuild expert before you know it!

[Rod Sheridan]

Ken, I'm really sorry to hear that you have had another mishap with your machine.

In my opinion you bought a new machine, not a used machine or a kit.

Have the supplier send a new machine, or hire a repairman to repair and calibrate/inspect the machine.

Either way it's not up to you to repair a deffective machine.

Regards, Rod.

[Jeff Duncan]

Hi Ken, adjusting a jointer is just one of those things you should know how to do if your going to own one. Of course there's a chance that you could get one delivered to your door and even after maneuvering it into place would still be perfectly tuned.....I just would never trust it:rolleyes: As for me having done it....oh yes....yes I have. Not only have I done it, but I've done it on probably one of the hardest parallelogram jointers you could imagine doing it on. My machine, a 16" Italian brand the same design as Casadei, came with no way to adjust the tables! They actually adjusted them then drilled and tapped through the bushings to lock them into place. They must have figured the tables would never go out that way....they were wrong:( So I spent the better part of a full day adjusting the tables to be perfect....oh OK within .002 of perfect. Then I had to re-drill through the main casting, tap new holes, and bolt the bushings into place. So yes I know what's involved with doing it and it should not be so bad on your machine.

As far as the bushing being perfect....not really. You see the whole surface of the bushing acts as the bearing, so a small imperfection in it should not make much difference. Add to that it being a bushing for the outfeed table, with rarely ever gets moved, and it's just not a problem....IMHO anyway;) Yes it should basically pop right in. Keep in mind that it's an oval shape so you may have to rotate it a bit or even wiggle the table, but it should pop in with no trouble. Again, it's personal preference, you could always wait for the new one if it makes you feel better....I'm just not that patient;)

Rod has a point, though it's something I personally wouldn't bother with. To me it's a question of which is the least amount of trouble to get a machine up and running. Your talking about a part that is not really any more difficult to install than say a v-belt. Am I really going to go through the trouble to send a 12" jointer back and wait for a new one hoping it isn't worse? What about the amount of time you invested already, and now your going to invest more time waiting for it to be picked up and then waiting again for a new one to show up? Honestly I don't think it's a big deal. Most of the toys I've had to put together for my son Christmas morning are more complicated than popping a bushing back into place and tightening it down:) From my point of view if the rest of the machine checks out and needs nothing, you've done alright. Remember there's a whole lot of stories of delivered machines that have been far worse than yours, so there's no guarantee the next one's going to be as good:eek:

good luck,
JeffD

[Jim Andrew]

When I bought my G0609, I ordered the regular one and a Byrd cutterhead. I removed the infeed table to install the cutter. It has been several years, but I just looked at the book and basically followed directions. Was not difficult, so filing off a burr and installing a bushing should not be a big deal. Maybe you have no mechanical experience and need to find a neighbor who has some. Machinist friends are great to have. I'm no great mechanic, just a farmer, but jointers are pretty simple machines.

[Rod Sheridan]

Jeff, I agree, I wouldn't ship it back either, however I would expect field service at no cost to myself.

I've only had one issue with a new machine which was resolved by field service at my house, which is what I would expect.

You even get this with a fridge or stove or dishwasher.

Grizzly simply need to send the parts to the OP, and hire a local machinery company to repair and adjust the machine. I expect that would be less expensive than shipping heavy machines back and forth.....Rod.

[Ken Platt]

Folks, thanks for all the replies. Here's the update. I took the rest of the crate apart so I could really get all around the machine, and couldn't find any other obvious problem. Called back to Grizzly, got ahold of the guy I'd been dealing with last week who'd been really helpful. He said the same as Jeff about the bushing, and advised just putting it back in, then going through the table co-planarity check as in the manual. He felt that since it was just the one bushing that was out and the others were all tight, I'd probably just have to adjust that one.

So I put the bushing back in - with a bit of persuasion from my deadblow hammer. I had to rotate it around to find a way it would go in, and was then able to push it in halfway with just hand pressure, then met resistance. It took a couple good whacks to get past that point, then it went in the rest of the way pretty easily. I had looked in the space before putting the bushing back, and didn't see any damage or scoring or anything stuck in there, so I'm not sure why it went back a bit hard.

I've checked the tables individually, and they are pretty flat. I checked with my LV 50 inch straightedge (supposed to be within .003 over the length) as the manual said, front edge, back edge, both diagonals on each table. I could get a .003 feeler under the straightedge in the midsections of the diagonals, and a .004 under the straightedge just in the very center of the tables. So, all flat within .004 and mostly within .003, seems pretty good to me.

So now I'm up to checking the coplanarity, did just a quick check before taking a break for dinner, and the tables are clearly out of coplanar by a pretty good amount. I hadn't checked the outfeed to the knives yet, so I'm going to do that shortly, hopefully that'll be ok, then start adjusting the infeed table to match the outfeed.

As to how much we should be on the hook for for fiddling with a new machine.... I'm muddy on that point. On the one hand, if I buy a fridge, or car, no customer expects to have any responsibility for repairing a new machine. In fact, I recently got a fridge, and there was a problem with the door fitting (one of those french door types). I offered to adjust it if they'd tell me how (it wasn't exactly clear from looking at it) and the store insisted on sending out a repairman, quickly and of course at no charge. OTOH, I think of myself as more mechanically capable than an average consumer, and as Jeff noted, I agree that I should know how to adjust and fine tune my machines. I guess I'm just not wild about picking up parts of my new machine off the bottom of the crate, but am ok picking them up off the floor after I screw it up myself at some point..:o

I'll post again after I fiddle, hopefully with pics of me smiling as I move it into the basement shop....

Ken

[Matt Day]

I agree with Jeff on this. If you paid Felder/Hammer prices then maybe you could expect a repairman to come by, but i don't see how you could expect a house call with a price point machine. If they did that with every little thing they wouldn't be a price point company anymore!

Glad you got the bushing in. Adjusting for coplanar can be a real bear, but you have to do it and learn how, whether your machine was perfect upon delivery or not.

Good luck!

[Ken Platt]

So, another update. I had a machinist friend come over to check me and, as I'd posted above, the outfeed table was parallel with, and at the right height to, the cutterhead and knives. That's the good news...temporarily. The infeed table was way sagged at its far end (infeed end of the infeed table). The amount of sag was far beyond what could be corrected for with the bushings at that end, so we tried to adjust downwards at the cutterhead end of the infeed table....and discovered that neither of those bushings had a second set screw holding them in place, and the set screws that were there were loose. Sigh. Worked with it a bit, and there just is not enough adjustment in the bushings to get the table coplanar with the outfeed. So we turn to adjusting the outfeed table, and, you guessed it, none of those bushings are being held by two set screws either, just one each.

So, kept at it, and we brought the far end (outfeed end) of the outfeed table up to try to establish a new plane that would be within the infeed table adjustment range, then reset the outfeed table to parallel with the cutterhead, then went back to the infeed table, and just barely managed to get the infeed acceptably parallel to the outfeed with the adjustment range available. So a happy ending, after several hours of work.

That pretty much used up the time available today, so no pics yet of the move down to the basement, that'll have to wait a few days. We couldn't even fire it up to try it out as I do not have 220 service in my garage.

Like I said above, I don't know how to address the point of what is or isn't reasonable to expect in a new machine. I'm perfectly open to the idea that I was expecting too much at the price point Grizzly offers. But, I think it is certainly worth considering, at least for me, for future purchases, that a fairly important securing setscrew was left off all eight adjustment points (really, just a clean sweep there. I triple checked, and had my friend look just in case I was nuts, and then we checked again, nope, just 1 set screw each) and that the main part of the tool (tables) were so far out of alignment as delivered.

Thanks again, all, for the thoughts, encouragement, and replies.

Ken

[glenn bradley]

The infeed table was way sagged at its far end (infeed end of the infeed table). The amount of sag was far beyond what could be corrected for with the bushings at that end

Well, now we know why the bushing was out. I have yet to have a delivery problem out here on the coast, even on items shipped from the MO site. This is astonishingly painful compared to the level of quality I have gotten from Grizzly. I hope Shiraz takes whatever is going wrong seriously and can get things back on track. I used to really talk up the Grizzly name but a few fairly ridiculous issues reported by various folks over the last year have made me pretty quiet when folks ask about tools. I would say they will have to pick that machine up and try again. Even though Grizzly tools come in at a very low price point, its still a lot of money to many home shop folks and the product should be delivered in good shape. Please keep us posted as to how this goes. The forum can be a powerful ally in these situations.

[Michael Mayo]

So, another update. I had a machinist friend come over to check me and, as I'd posted above, the outfeed table was parallel with, and at the right height to, the cutterhead and knives. That's the good news...temporarily. The infeed table was way sagged at its far end (infeed end of the infeed table). The amount of sag was far beyond what could be corrected for with the bushings at that end, so we tried to adjust downwards at the cutterhead end of the infeed table....and discovered that neither of those bushings had a second set screw holding them in place, and the set screws that were there were loose. Sigh. Worked with it a bit, and there just is not enough adjustment in the bushings to get the table coplanar with the outfeed. So we turn to adjusting the outfeed table, and, you guessed it, none of those bushings are being held by two set screws either, just one each.

So, kept at it, and we brought the far end (outfeed end) of the outfeed table up to try to establish a new plane that would be within the infeed table adjustment range, then reset the outfeed table to parallel with the cutterhead, then went back to the infeed table, and just barely managed to get the infeed acceptably parallel to the outfeed with the adjustment range available. So a happy ending, after several hours of work.

That pretty much used up the time available today, so no pics yet of the move down to the basement, that'll have to wait a few days. We couldn't even fire it up to try it out as I do not have 220 service in my garage.

Like I said above, I don't know how to address the point of what is or isn't reasonable to expect in a new machine. I'm perfectly open to the idea that I was expecting too much at the price point Grizzly offers. But, I think it is certainly worth considering, at least for me, for future purchases, that a fairly important securing setscrew was left off all eight adjustment points (really, just a clean sweep there. I triple checked, and had my friend look just in case I was nuts, and then we checked again, nope, just 1 set screw each) and that the main part of the tool (tables) were so far out of alignment as delivered.

Thanks again, all, for the thoughts, encouragement, and replies.

Ken

I just don't know how to respond to what you found in your brand new machine??? That is just completely unacceptable I don't care if it is a "price point" machine or not. Those are basic assembly items at the factory and should be present PERIOD! I understand that Grizzly caters to a cost conscious clientele but come on I have read so many stories recently about people receiving broken and damaged equipment that although is somewhat inexpensive comparably speaking, this equipment should not be arriving in the conditions that these machines are arriving in. Makes me definitely not want to consider purchasing anything from that company.

[Jeff Duncan]

So there was only one set screw in each of all 8 holes correct? If so makes me think they only come with one set screw per? I would think a single screw would be adequate for holding the bushing in place anyway, so to me it sounds like there was simply 1 set screw that was not tightened properly?

As for adjustment, I'm going to ask a really silly question but bear with me....when you say there was not enough adjustment to get the infeed table coplaner, you did raise/lower the table as needed right:confused: Again I haven't ever owned a Grizzly jointer, but the machines I have both have more adjustment than I would ever need.

Lastly, I think one can reasonably ecpect a jointer to arrive with all it's parts intact. In a perfect world the tables would be setup and ready to use. However i would never trust a jointer regardless of manufacturer right out of the crate. Most machines, even those on the high end of the spectrum, will require some setup and adjustment before use. So in your situation you have a machine that arrived with one set screw that was not properly tightened, allowing for a part to come loose and also throw off the table adjustment. I'm certainly not trying to sound like an apologist for the company, as I myself don't buy equipment from them. However the reality is nothing was broken or damaged, just a case of a part having come loose. Now in theory you could have a tech come out and put that bushing back in for you, but seems a bit much to me? And you could probably even have justified having them set up the tables back into coplaner? My own personal take is that I don't trust a tech to get the tables as accurate as I would like them. To get my edgebander running right...sure thing! But when it comes to precision alignment I'll generally take over from there;) I guess my point is only you can decide what's reasonable to you, price or quality, and then you can make your own choice with your wallet:D

good luck,
JeffD

[Richard Coers]

So there was only one set screw in each of all 8 holes correct? If so makes me think they only come with one set screw per? I would think a single screw would be adequate for holding the bushing in place anyway, so to me it sounds like there was simply 1 set screw that was not tightened properly?

As for adjustment, I'm going to ask a really silly question but bear with me....when you say there was not enough adjustment to get the infeed table coplaner, you did raise/lower the table as needed right:confused: Again I haven't ever owned a Grizzly jointer, but the machines I have both have more adjustment than I would ever need.

Lastly, I think one can reasonably ecpect a jointer to arrive with all it's parts intact. In a perfect world the tables would be setup and ready to use. However i would never trust a jointer regardless of manufacturer right out of the crate. Most machines, even those on the high end of the spectrum, will require some setup and adjustment before use. So in your situation you have a machine that arrived with one set screw that was not properly tightened, allowing for a part to come loose and also throw off the table adjustment. I'm certainly not trying to sound like an apologist for the company, as I myself don't buy equipment from them. However the reality is nothing was broken or damaged, just a case of a part having come loose. Now in theory you could have a tech come out and put that bushing back in for you, but seems a bit much to me? And you could probably even have justified having them set up the tables back into coplaner? My own personal take is that I don't trust a tech to get the tables as accurate as I would like them. To get my edgebander running right...sure thing! But when it comes to precision alignment I'll generally take over from there;) I guess my point is only you can decide what's reasonable to you, price or quality, and then you can make your own choice with your wallet:D

good luck,
JeffD

They should update the owners manual if there is only one set screw. Quotes from the on-line manual.
"These eccentric bushings are locked inplace by piggybacked set screws (one on top ofthe other) and adjust when rotated. "
And follow their own advice.
"Adjusting themto be parallel is a task of precision and patience,and may take up to one hour to complete. Luckily,this is considered a permanent adjustment andshould not need to be repeated for the life of themachine."