Felder Silent Power Cutterblock

[Mike Konobeck]

Anyone purchase one and have an update on how well it performs? The videos in the following link are simply amazing in difference for noise and power. Might have to make a few phone calls during the promo going on now.

http://landingpages.felder-gruppe.at/felder-en/silentpower-2/

[Jim Barrett]

I had my A3 delivered on Monday...been a tough week so besides getting the machine off the pallet haven't even put the plug on the power cable. Hopefully this weekend will have her humming away and can give the silent power cutterhead a bit of a workout.

Jim

[David Kumm]

I saw it in Atlanta. It might be the best spiral out there. Good chip management, quiet, and most important, leaves a great finish using less power than the Byrd. Power consumption is the only downside to the byrd. I like it although I still like straight knives on big machines. Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

It's also the only carbide head I've seen with a Man rating...........Rod.

[Chris Fournier]

One thing to remember with all of this silent/quiet/whisper talk is that the real noise level of your machine will be obvious to you when the cutter is turning and your DC is extracting. The DC magnifies the cutter volume. My Tersa head is quiet without the DC being on. Personally I feel that the Tersa is as quiet as my spiral cutter shaper head on a cutting surface basis. First and foremost a cutter is for cutting!

[Erik Loza]

It's also the only carbide head I've seen with a Man rating...........Rod.

To be fair, the Byrd Shelix head is perfectly safe to use with the human hand. We just don't use that type of certification system over here.


One thing to remember with all of this silent/quiet/whisper talk is that the real noise level of your machine will be obvious to you when the cutter is turning and your DC is extracting. The DC magnifies the cutter volume. My Tersa head is quiet without the DC being on. Personally I feel that the Tersa is as quiet as my spiral cutter shaper head on a cutting surface basis. First and foremost a cutter is for cutting!

Ditto: Tersa is as quiet as the Byrd heads I have heard but once you actually start running the planer, it's gonna be loud, anyway, regardless of what head you have on there.

Just my 2-cents.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Rod Sheridan]

To be fair, the Byrd Shelix head is perfectly safe to use with the human hand. We just don't use that type of certification system over here.



Ditto: Tersa is as quiet as the Byrd heads I have heard but once you actually start running the planer, it's gonna be loud, anyway, regardless of what head you have on there.

Just my 2-cents.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

Hi Erik, does the Byrd head meet the maximum cutter projection requirement?

I'm not stating it doesn't, it just looked to me that it had too much projection.............Regards, Rod.

[Erik Loza]

No idea, Rod. Never needed to ask that question.

best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[John W Johnson]

Anyone purchase one and have an update on how well it performs? The videos in the following link are simply amazing in difference for noise and power. Might have to make a few phone calls during the promo going on now.

http://landingpages.felder-gruppe.at/felder-en/silentpower-2/

I've had mine up and running for about a month. It's awesome. It's a lot quieter than my old DeWalt 733' and the finish is fantastic. I sold my old 8" Jet jointer and the planer. I went with the Ad741 because I have a number of 12-15"wide recycled timbers and wanted the 16" capacity. So far I've planed nothing wider than 10", and it just blows thru that. Another factor that I like is the chip removal. I have a small bin on my cyclone DC, and that seems to fill up more slowly than with the old tools. And the process of jointing and planing boards has gone so much quicker that I've been kicking myself for not buying it sooner.

[Mike Konobeck]

John, that is the exact machine I want to get. I have a full combo but really would like the 16" capacity. I have to say that the 12" jointer is just about perfect but there are scenarios I have run into lately where the extra capacity would be welcomed. Also, for me today, even on narrower stock I have to use the full 12" as I skew the wood to reduce tear out. Never a guarantee but it really helps. I have gotten pretty good at minimizing tear out but the nicest grained wood / exotics are really tough to read and sometimes impossible to joint/plane without wrecking a lot of wood.

I don't get how a Tersa can be as quiet as a Byrd Shelix or Felder Silent Power cutterblock. Those videos are proof that even with dust collection the Felder is much quieter. Exponentially in fact. I have a Felder 4 blade and it is LOUD. In a 4 level home basement shop I wake the wife up upstairs when running it. Rule is I can't use my jointer/planer after she has gone to bed. I also think that the design of the Felder cutterblock doesn't leave the scalloping. Anybody seeing the scalloping with the Felder head? Pictures?

[Will Blick]

I too can't fathom how any straight blade can be as quiet as these multi cutter heads..... continuous blades are screamers.

Also, I don't understand how a Byrd consumes more power than the Felder head. For starters, the Byrd has more cutters. In which case, it can remove more wood, faster. Whether this is beneficial to a user, depends on how deep of a cut they make. More importantly, as a general rule, all variables being equal, i.e. same sharpness blades, same blade type (min cutters) same eff. motors, same RPM, same wood species, etc. The volume of wood removed should represent the same "amount of work" , so therefore, very close to the same the same nrg consumption. Often this is marketing hype.... i.e. if you remove half the volume of wood on a swipe, yes, maybe the Felder amps will be 1/2 vs. a swipe of the Byrd machine.....but you performed half the amount of work.

[Erik Loza]

...I don't get how a Tersa can be as quiet as a Byrd Shelix or Felder Silent Power cutterblock.... I have a Felder 4 blade and it is LOUD. In a 4 level home basement shop I wake the wife up upstairs when running it...

Mike, do you happen to know exactly how many decibels the 12" silent cuttherhead produces? They are required to list it (at least if they conform to ISO certifications, which I assume they do...). For example, our FS30 Smart with the Tersa head produces 76 dB at idle, then up to 90dB under load. I have used both Shelix and Tersa machines of the same size and find the sound level about the same. The thing to understand about Tersa is that actual projection of the knife and then the rake of the profile are more akin to a spiral-type head than to a conventional head, which your existing cuttherhead is, where the knives project from the axis of rotation at a 90-degree angle and really shred the air as the machine runs. That's all your howling sound right there. Maybe a Tersa owner will chime in here but I can tell you that with one of our jointer/planers just idling, you and I could stand next to it and carry on a conversation at normal volume. The machine just makes a low-pitched hum.

Out of curiosity, I googled "planer decibel level" and found these interesting links...

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

...so, it appears that the 12" Tersa head is slightly louder than normal conversation at 3' but quieter than a telephone dial tone or the sound of city traffic, inside a car. Again, maybe a Tersa user will chime in here.

Just my observations,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[David Kumm]

They all sound about the same with hearing protection which should be mandatory. I have a couple of spirals but if I had a choice on a jointer planer I'd take Tersa assuming power is not a consideration. . It is the most flexible when running lumber from rough to finish. I'm always running rough over my regular knives first to protect the spiral. Dave

[Chris Fournier]

I too can't fathom how any straight blade can be as quiet as these multi cutter heads..... continuous blades are screamers.

Also, I don't understand how a Byrd consumes more power than the Felder head. For starters, the Byrd has more cutters. In which case, it can remove more wood, faster. Whether this is beneficial to a user, depends on how deep of a cut they make. More importantly, as a general rule, all variables being equal, i.e. same sharpness blades, same blade type (min cutters) same eff. motors, same RPM, same wood species, etc. The volume of wood removed should represent the same "amount of work" , so therefore, very close to the same the same nrg consumption. Often this is marketing hype.... i.e. if you remove half the volume of wood on a swipe, yes, maybe the Felder amps will be 1/2 vs. a swipe of the Byrd machine.....but you performed half the amount of work.

The projection of the cutters from the circumference of the head and any surfaces below the circumference are the real causes of cutter head noise - think of the sound of a propeller - chop chop chop. To top it of the cutterhead is gathering air and slamming it against the table surfaces - down on the infeed and up on the out feed. Look at a Tersa head closely and you will see that it doesn't have many surfaces to "push" air. As I mentioned I have both styles of cutterheads and they are both similar in volume, regardless I always wear hearing protection.

[Mike Konobeck]

According to the Felder video that was in the first link, the Silent Power cutterblock on an A3-31 (12" head) produces the following rough numbers:
Standard Idle = 83
Standard Cutting = 92
Silent Power Idle = 67
Silent Power Cutting = 80

Not sure how the Byrd head performs on the same machine but the difference between the two Felder heads is pretty amazing. The straight knife systems produce a stellar finish when they are sharp but it doesn't take a lot of bd ft to have them fall off. I have plenty of experience with my A3-31 I used to have and my current Felder CF-731 Pro to know about replacing $100+ sets of blades and have been waiting for a better option and hopefully it is here. That is why I posted my original question(s). Not trying to turn this into a debate between straight knife and segmented head because that has been a highly debated topic but you can't ignore the fact that Felder just did something pretty amazing with what I believe to be the next leap forward in design of a head for J/Ps. Professional or hobby woodworker alike can benefit and there is really no downside to this segmented head that I can see other than price but even that is a shortsighted argument. Trying to justify how it is better or even equal isn't logical unless someone can show me a head to head (no pun intended) comparison in price, finish quality, power consumption, and sound. I want to see this done for both fresh knives/cutters and the same test done with a few hundred bd ft later. I commend Felder for putting it out there pretty plainly in the videos. It is unfortunate they don't interject in the forums more though and I appreciate Minimax seeming to always have representation.

[David Kumm]

I think Felder has numbers on power consumption vs straight blade and Byrd. It was the power consumption that caused them not to just retrofit Byrd heads with their single phase machines and led to the Silent power. For those wanting a carbide spiral, Felder is the first best choice. Dave

[Glenn Ancona]

Eric,
Tersa blade owner chiming in -
Felders format exact 63 with a tersa head here - very reasonable db, idle or planning at full width.
The silent head was not available at time of machine purchase - probably wouldn't have gone that route anyway- the tersa is the easiest blade to change I've ever seen and reasonably priced.

[howard s hanger]

I went from a DW 735 to the new A3-31 with the spiral silent power head. I never used the DW without hearing protection. It could wake the dead. The A3 is so quiet you can barely hear it running a board through. I supposed you could make a case for needing hearing protection during operation of any power tool but this machine is so quiet during it's operation that to me it appears to be not necessary. I would also recommend to anyone contemplating it's purchase to be sure and get the digital handwheel. It makes things a lot easier to repeat.

[Jim Barrett]

I went from a DW 735 to the new A3-31 with the spiral silent power head. I never used the DW without hearing protection. It could wake the dead. The A3 is so quiet you can barely hear it running a board through. I supposed you could make a case for needing hearing protection during operation of any power tool but this machine is so quiet during it's operation that to me it appears to be not necessary. I would also recommend to anyone contemplating it's purchase to be sure and get the digital handwheel. It makes things a lot easier to repeat.

Howard,
Do you not run a D/C while jointing or planing? I finally got my A3 plugged in today and face jointed 3' long 2x4's to check for blade/table/fence alignment as per Hammer's procedures. So far everything looks good. Accurate cuts on the face and edge. Will use the planer and check for parallelism and any snipe tomorrow.
I run my D/C and can't hear anything else...due to using ear protection. Now if I had a D/C in an insulated closet or outside the shop then yes, the silent cutterhead may in fact be....silent ;)
Oh and have to install the digital handwheel as well.

Jim

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Jim, did you buy the metric or imperial height gauge for your machine?

When I gave my old A3-31 to my brother, I ordered the imperial gauge for it.

What a mistake, it's 2mm per revolution, like the metric gauge. The difference is that 2mm per revolution is nice, want 1mm, half a revolution etc.

The imperial gauge is of course decimal, so you get 0.079" ( or something to that effect) per revolution, which made using it really weird.

Have fun with your new machine, I really enjoy mine...........Rod.

[Jim Barrett]

Hi Jim, did you buy the metric or imperial height gauge for your machine?

When I gave my old A3-31 to my brother, I ordered the imperial gauge for it.

What a mistake, it's 2mm per revolution, like the metric gauge. The difference is that 2mm per revolution is nice, want 1mm, half a revolution etc.

The imperial gauge is of course decimal, so you get 0.079" ( or something to that effect) per revolution, which made using it really weird.

Have fun with your new machine, I really enjoy mine...........Rod.

Rod,
I have the imperial gauge so yes 0.079 per revolution. Will install that today when I go through the plane function of the machine.

Jim

[Darcy Forman]

I own a tersa cutter on a mini max 16 inche jointer planer. I never heard a spiral cutter, but I sure have no issues with the tersa cutter block. You almost can't hear it run until you fire up the dust collector. I am not very fussy about loud noise anyways, as my whole working life has been spent in loud 100 db plus gas and oil processing plants, where hearing protection is worn all the time anyways. I have worn hearing protection so long I would miss it if I never had it like I'd miss having my teeth!

[Rick Fisher]

Funny.. I have a Tersa on my Jointer and run it in a shop with a Felder RL-160 collecting the dust .. I can tell you that the big noise maker is the DC..

My old straight knife planer make a horrible " reeeeeeowwww " screaming sound.. So I went helical on the new planer.. its much quieter.. The jointer came Tersa but has never really seemed that loud... IMO Tersa is quieter than the old straight knife system.

My next major purchase will be a pro planer. I have been putting it off for years due to the economy but the day will come .. today I would get the Felder with the helical head .. beauty machine..

[Mike Konobeck]

I appreciate everyone's opinion. Going to go with the A3-41 w/ Silent Power cutterblock when funds become available and pending the price is right.

I have my dust collector in an insulated room I built on the back of my house so noise from the dust collector itself is never an issue. The J/P functions are louder with the air turbulence from the DC, no doubt. I really want to get a decibel meter to do some tests now.

FYI on the handwheel. Just get the Wixey gauge (WR550) instead of the "digital" handwheel. I have a full combo with 4 of the Felder handwheels and the increment is awkward to use for height/depth adjustments. Maybe I am missing something on the value but I put the Wixey gauge on the planer and it is SO easy to use and set. Kind of have to be creative to install but not bad at all. I might try to put one on the shaper too.