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View Full Version : How many posts can one make and still not be a contributor?



Sam Murdoch
03-14-2013, 5:50 PM
I just happen to notice today that -

there are some folks (that's folk with an s) who have posted 900 + times without becoming contributors to SawMill Creek :eek:

What is up with that? We are talking about a $ 6.00 contribution. Have some of these people just let their contributor status lapse? Just trying to understand that level of participation without becoming a contributor. Extreme poverty cannot be an excuse as one can't be a woodworker with any tools or materials to work with, not to mention the computer on which to write a thousand posts, and also be so poor as to not be able to afford $ 6.00. To whom it may concern - please reconsider your status here on the Creek.

Yes, I'm venting - expressing my astonishment too. Moderators may of course delete this post without any more attitude from me. :)

Jeff Monson
03-14-2013, 6:05 PM
I'd have to agree with you Sam, posting over 900 times means that you must have come away with some knowlege, as well as shared. The fees are trivial in comparison.

Jason Roehl
03-14-2013, 6:12 PM
There are many reasons, not all of them are financial, nor are all of them worthy of being discussed on the forum. Financial contributions are not a requirement to participate here, but do enable access to additional features. I've contributed in the past, was more active in the past, did more woodworking in the past. I stay here and occasionally chime in because of the many friends I've made here, some of whom I've even met, but I don't see a need to contribute financially at this time.

glenn bradley
03-14-2013, 6:35 PM
For 50 cents a month I just auto-renew and don't even think about it anymore. Even if I got a decent answer to one question or got to share one item that I made and wanted feedback on or got one decent comment on a tool I was considering I am getting a big, big BANG for my $6.

Chris Rosenberger
03-14-2013, 6:39 PM
Being a contributor is not a requirement, so I do not see the problem.
I very seldom pay any attention to whom is a contributor or how many posts anyone has.

To answer your question, someone can have an unlimited amount of posts & not be a contributor.

Larry Browning
03-14-2013, 6:39 PM
I go through periods where I don't participate very much and times when I don't even visit the site for several months. However I still contribute, because I want to do my part to help keep the lights on. It would create a giant hole in my life if SMC went away.

ray hampton
03-14-2013, 8:56 PM
I try to visit every day but will not be able to contribute until I get credit card pay down

Sam Murdoch
03-14-2013, 10:26 PM
Being a contributor is not a requirement, so I do not see the problem.
I very seldom pay any attention to whom is a contributor or how many posts anyone has.

To answer your question, someone can have an unlimited amount of posts & not be a contributor.

I have never paid attention to how many posts someone has made let alone whether they are members or contributors or any other level. Just noticed today and was surprised. My thread title/question was rhetorical as I know that contribution is not a requirement. Just seems logical that at some point of involvement one might be inclined to send in a check or paypal or credit card payment for the $ 6.00 aka 50¢ per month. It would be disingenuous of me to imply that I am not making a judgement. I don't understand how one could not be a contributor after a certain point. Having said that I just as sincerely say that I know better than to question another's decisions based on my own circumstances regardless of what I think I may know. I am sorry if I have offended anyone.

I am glad that SawMill Creek is here for me and I hope my shared knowledge is more valuable than my annual contribution. I know for sure that others here have made contributions to my skill set and professionalism and I can't for the life of me recall noticing their Creek "status" and don't care. I am just grateful for the sharing.

Gordon Eyre
03-14-2013, 10:44 PM
I became a contributor within days of becoming a member. I contribute more than the minimum and feel that this is the least I can do for the great value I receive here. There is rarely a day that goes by that I do not check in to see what is happening. I just want to say that I appreciate the leadership of the forum. The dues are less than one movie and would seem to me to be within the reach of all active members. That said I recognize the right of non-dues paying members to participate and would be the last person to look down my nose at any that choose not to contribute.

Mel Fulks
03-14-2013, 11:01 PM
I think mentions from management about becoming a contributor are pretty restrained ,and I take this chance to say the suggested sum is modest for such a service.

Prashun Patel
03-14-2013, 11:02 PM
If being a contributor is optional then its not fair to pick on people who take that option. Hate the game, not the playa.

Damon Stathatos
03-15-2013, 1:10 AM
My first post in close to one month...

Sam...I get the sense that you jumped into this thread based upon emotion and then perhaps felt the desire to walk-it-back a bit. You are a fine member (member in the sense of 'member of the form' as opposed to 'member:' one who has yet chosen to or are yet able to contribute) and your rally-cry is well intentioned, I'm sure.

However, your 'vent,' as you term it, may have the opposite effect than your intention and may actually cause people to tend to shy away from the forum rather than to continue to participate in an unfettered manner. The true beauty of this forum is that all are free to glean whatever they can from it, participate to the extent they wish (whether through their level of activity and participation or by their choice of financial support, or both, or neither), and to choose to be a part of this community or not. I 'walked' into this forum some three years ago and have learned a tremendous amount from people who I have no idea if they were contributors or not, as I never even thought to look at or consider that part of their 'status.' Even though I am a current contributor, that wasn't always the case and I have always felt that my true contribution was in the form of my input, regardless my chosen (or not) status of contributor.

Sawmill Creek is one of the truly great forums (of any topics) on the internet and I hope it continues to thrive (survive) financially, but my truest hope is that it continues to enjoy participation from the great people here regardless of their 'badged' status of contributor or not.

Dan Hintz
03-15-2013, 7:34 AM
And let's dispel the notion that just because someone has a large number of posts means they must have walked away with useful info... it may be true overall, but not always, and those exceptions are real kickers. I (along with a very select few) practically built the Electronics forum for the largest Honda S2000 fan forum out there. For several years I poured my heart into that forum answering question after question, and getting no practically useful info back in return. And I was okay with that. I didn't pay a fee, but I had a boatload of posts.

Then things changed... drastically. Management got greedy, treated us early contributors like dirt on their shoes, and it was at that point I was glad I hadn't contributed money to their pot. There was a mass exodus of a number of very knowledgable people that year or so. The collective intelligence of the group plummeted, and everyone suffered for it. I gave a lot of knowledge to the collective, didn't ask for anything in return but respect. A lot of people here do the same thing, and I respect them for it. Yes, the yearly fee pays the bills (sorry, I simply cannot call it a "contribution" if it's required to get access to certain features... it's a "fee" plain and simple... anything above the $6 is a contribution), but if somoene wishes to be a knowledgable non-contributor, so be it, I'm not going to call them on it.

Jason Beam
03-15-2013, 9:12 AM
I may be poking the hornets nest here ... but ... maybe a little insight from someone who doesn't pony up the $6.

I used to post here a lot. I was around before the "contributor" status came along. I was a bit of a thorn in Keith's side, I would imagine. My participation dropped rapidly when people asked questions like this. No it isn't a ton of money and any fool can see it's a small price to pay for the knowledge gained. But as was the case years ago the last time I said it, a contributor isn't special and doesn't get any more credibility than someone who doesn't pony up $6. The contributor status divided the group and I didn't agree with that, so instead of constantly poking it, I stopped participating as much as I used to. I've seen what happens to valuable members who speak too loudly around here (Bill Pentz, Mark Duginske, etc). So I just browse from time to time. But I don't spend near as much time here as I used to.

In my mind, every person here who asks a question is valuable regardless of whether they felt the urge to pay $6. Every person here who answers a question is valuable and no less important than if they paid their $6.

I haven't posted in awhile, and maybe I should've continued on that trend. I'm sure my absence has been a relief to some. I guess this time I felt inspired to answer at least one reason why some of us choose not to contribute. Look down on me all you want - that's a great way to ensure you never see my $6. I doubt I'm alone in that thought (though I doubt my view is common). This place has a ton of information, it's opened up for free - if you don't want to give it away, lock it down and make everyone pay. But management's remarkable silence on preventing the high and mighty contributors from questioning why some of us don't do it is all the reason I need to keep my money in my wallet. Silence speaks louder than words sometimes.

Ole Anderson
03-15-2013, 9:54 AM
I may be poking the hornets nest here ... but ... maybe a little insight from someone who doesn't pony up the $6.

...high and mighty contributors...

"high and mighty contributors"? Sheesh Jason. It is only six bucks, less than you would drop at Mickey Dees for lunch once. That is just plain a lousy excuse. I don't look down on non-contributors, and I presume most others don't either, as most of us at one time were non-contributors, me for probably 7 years and my first 500 posts. Frankly I joined so I could get some of the added features available to only contributors. And when I realized how much I enjoyed a forum that wasn't full of pop-up ads. And how much I respected Keith.

There is another non-woodworking forum in which I am active and I choose not to contribute. Why? Because they want $20 per year and it is already chocked with revenue generating pop up and other ads.

David Weaver
03-15-2013, 10:20 AM
I may be poking the hornets nest here ... but ... maybe a little insight from someone who doesn't pony up the $6.

I used to post here a lot. I was around before the "contributor" status came along. I was a bit of a thorn in Keith's side, I would imagine. My participation dropped rapidly when people asked questions like this. No it isn't a ton of money and any fool can see it's a small price to pay for the knowledge gained. But as was the case years ago the last time I said it, a contributor isn't special and doesn't get any more credibility than someone who doesn't pony up $6. The contributor status divided the group and I didn't agree with that, so instead of constantly poking it, I stopped participating as much as I used to. I've seen what happens to valuable members who speak too loudly around here (Bill Pentz, Mark Duginske, etc). So I just browse from time to time. But I don't spend near as much time here as I used to.

In my mind, every person here who asks a question is valuable regardless of whether they felt the urge to pay $6. Every person here who answers a question is valuable and no less important than if they paid their $6.

I haven't posted in awhile, and maybe I should've continued on that trend. I'm sure my absence has been a relief to some. I guess this time I felt inspired to answer at least one reason why some of us choose not to contribute. Look down on me all you want - that's a great way to ensure you never see my $6. I doubt I'm alone in that thought (though I doubt my view is common). This place has a ton of information, it's opened up for free - if you don't want to give it away, lock it down and make everyone pay. But management's remarkable silence on preventing the high and mighty contributors from questioning why some of us don't do it is all the reason I need to keep my money in my wallet. Silence speaks louder than words sometimes.

This is just my opinion, but there are a lot of perceived slights in this post that just don't exist. It's bordering on paranoia.

For a long time, I didn't contribute. I do now and probably will indefinitely. I never felt like anyone was slighting me, and in fact, nobody ever did.

Most of the complaining that I've seen about the contribution thing in general has been folks who:
1) either want to advertise something they're doing or push people to their sites, etc, or:
2) a couple of times in the past, I've seen weekend antique shoppers / tool flippers complain about paying $6 to list their wares in the classifieds section, which is just ridiculous.

Dan Hintz
03-15-2013, 12:40 PM
This is just my opinion, but there are a lot of perceived slights in this post that just don't exist. It's bordering on paranoia.

I contribute... and I still don't think it's very nice to guilt-trip non-contributors (which is what these threads are... if it wasn't a guilt-trip, there would be no need to start them, just be in amazement in silence).

Every time I see one start up, I think it should be closed immediately, just like a "this company sucks!" rant.

David Weaver
03-15-2013, 12:45 PM
I don't know, I think everyone on both sides needs to get thicker skin and the non-contributors who are so turned off that the environment is "non-competitive" environment for the advertisers (per the TOS) need a lesson in pragmatism.

Mel Fulks
03-15-2013, 1:17 PM
I think David is correct and point applies to posts in general.None of the different views as to how something should be done need to be personal. That requires some art from writer and readers. I hope the distance of computer land can keep us from having to adopt the type of qualifiers used in congress....I submit that the FINE GENTLEMAN from (any state)is completely ignorant and his idea has been proven useless...

Paul McGaha
03-15-2013, 1:19 PM
Just my opinion but for me I think each to their own way.

As for me I gain so much here there is no way I wouldn't want to pay my share.

PHM

Pat Barry
03-15-2013, 1:20 PM
I contribute to, and am happy to do so. I'll admit I didn't for quite a while and had interest in some Contributer only content, therefore I contributed. But I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't actually contribute.

Now my question though, what exactly am I contributing for? Is this defraying the costs of the forum upkeep. Where does the $ go? I think thats a fair question and something that should be reported on the forum from time to time. After all, as contributors we are kind of like stockholders and have a right to know how the contributions are being spent? Right?

Jim Koepke
03-15-2013, 1:21 PM
There are more meaningful things in life for me to ponder than the status of those who enjoy this forum.

Links to items here are often shared with others who are not as dedicated to wood butchering as the rest of us. It is fine with me that they do not have to become contributors to see the great things others here create.

For those who want to post and play well with others there is no malice from me if they have chosen to remain at member status or want to become a contributor. There are a lot of benefits available for just $6 a year.

jtk

David Weaver
03-15-2013, 1:39 PM
I contribute to, and am happy to do so. I'll admit I didn't for quite a while and had interest in some Contributer only content, therefore I contributed. But I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't actually contribute.

Now my question though, what exactly am I contributing for? Is this defraying the costs of the forum upkeep. Where does the $ go? I think thats a fair question and something that should be reported on the forum from time to time. After all, as contributors we are kind of like stockholders and have a right to know how the contributions are being spent? Right?

I think the idea of why you're contributing has to be one that you decide for yourself. For lack of a better way to put it, it goes to pay the bills. If that means it pays for equipment and bandwidth, so be it. If it means it puts a few bucks in keith's pocket, so be it. He spends the hours running the site that we don't. It's not linked to a publisher, or a store, etc, so there isn't something else driving the want for traffic (like SRP, for example, is owned by the guy who owns a store that sells wet shaving supplies, or WN, which is sponsored by a publishing company). The model is different, the site pays for itself by us, not by keith's desire for it to be a gateway to bring people in to another business of his.

I'm not chewing anyone out, this is just the pragmatism part. If keith drove a bentley, we'd know. If we think he should do everything for free, we should get a reality check.

If folks feel like they don't want to contribute, well, I never really even look at that and I'd imagine most of the people here don't, either.

Kent A Bathurst
03-15-2013, 3:00 PM
Just my opinion but for me I think each to their own way.

As for me I gain so much here there is no way I wouldn't want to pay my share.

PHM

Ditto.

I used to be here all the time - maybe too much.

I would hope that my contributions were helpful. But, in the end, I took away a huge amount of info, thanks to a lot of people, but especially to a few.

And, I developed close relationships with guys I have never met.

6 bucks a year, to keep this going? Pocket change. Literally. Someone doesn't want to throw down? Good for them. Rock on, dude. Let it flow..................

At the same time, there are people that are grabbing info and input who should, by all rights, pony up. Over the past few years, I have thrown a humurous elbow at 3 or 4 of them via PM, and they always put in the $ - but they are at heart good folks.

The creek continues to provide for the knowledgeable and the unknowing, the players and the lurkers, the pros and the proles, which is its mission, as far as I can understand it. Jack up the price, and I'm still in - even though I am not as involved as I used to be.

Jim Matthews
03-15-2013, 4:38 PM
Six bucks a year to keep the Creek flowing is cheap.

Jeff Monson
03-15-2013, 4:44 PM
I contribute... and I still don't think it's very nice to guilt-trip non-contributors (which is what these threads are... if it wasn't a guilt-trip, there would be no need to start them, just be in amazement in silence)

Dan, my comments were certainly not to guilt trip anyone. I really didn't think the point of this thread was to single out anyone for not putting in financially. I personally could care less if you contribute or not. My point is, for me, it is worth the contribution. Heck, if I had to pay a "professional woodworker" for every time I had a question, my contribution here would be burnt up in the 1st day.

Sam Murdoch
03-15-2013, 4:51 PM
Me again :rolleyes:. I've been cogitatin' on this thread as I worked today. Wondered how I would feel if all of a sudden there was a rule that you couldn't post more than 500 times without making a contribution. I readily admit that I might have stopped writing at post 499 (might have). I repeat that I have never paid any attention to the "status" of the participants on any thread. My realization that compelled me to start this thread was as much as anything a response to how different SawMill Creek is to any other forum that I participate on (Right now - only 4 others and none with daily involvement). This is by far the most collegial, most friendly, most informative, most constructive, least cliquish, least non relevant and least attitude forum of them all. Seemed to me that anyone who has been here long enough to post 900+ times would be as enthusiastic as I am. How many times in a year or 2 would you go to dinner at a friends home, always have a good time and still never bring over a pint of ice cream or a 6 pack? Just wondering.

Now - having said all that I really and truly DON'T CARE if any one chips in the 6 bucks. Doesn't change my life or my attitude about the Creek one jot. As has been written - it's not in the rules so don't blame the player. I'm just surprised that someone might choose not to after some point and that was the basis of my question.

I agree with David Weavers' excellent post # 23 above.

Dennis Peacock
03-15-2013, 5:01 PM
Let's ALL please understand, right here and now. This is still a free country and still a free site to participate on. The written text of a message on a screen leaves a LOT to intent and interpretation of the reader for the emotional sense of the text.

No matter what, SMC is still free to those that want it for free. SMC is $6 a year for those that want to contribute to help keep the servers up, bandwidth costs paid, and software fees paid.

The world still turns and people will have their feelings hurt over most anything....no matter what side of the proverbial fence people are on based on the topic of discussion. If you WANT to contribute? Please do so. If you Do Not want to contribute? Please don't. It is still optional ya know. ;)

The way I saw the OP's post....it was not a slap at anyone....just an observation by the OP.

And for the record.....I have offered to pay the $6 for a person that couldn't afford it before.....and I know Keith would do the very same...just as would any other moderator/admin here on the forum.

Now....let's all sit down, grab our favorite cold drink and read more cool stuff on The Creek. :)

Jay Jolliffe
03-15-2013, 5:10 PM
Since coming here I have received a lot of info on various tools,machinery & ways to do things. There are some really talented people on this forum & I enjoy reading their posts & seeing their project's. I could come here and get the same info for free. It cost's to keep this site going & I'd hate to see it disappear. So I pay a little extra to help it out.

Larry Browning
03-15-2013, 6:01 PM
After all, as contributors we are kind of like stockholders and have a right to know how the contributions are being spent? Right?
I think of a contributor more as a customer rather than a stock holder. Just because I give them some money to provide me a service doesn't mean I now own part of the forum. It's kinda like a magazine subscription. What the owner does with the money is really none of my business. I can go elsewhere if I don't like what goes on here. (That is not the case, I am just trying to explain my opinion.)

Harold Burrell
03-15-2013, 6:06 PM
Now....let's all sit down, grab our favorite cold drink and read more cool stuff on The Creek. :)

Cold drink? What's wrong with a HOT drink??? Sheesh...now you guys want to dictate what I consume. ;)

Matt Meiser
03-15-2013, 8:03 PM
Harold, didn't you get your monthly case of Contributor Ale?

phil harold
03-15-2013, 8:17 PM
It is all about content

It is more about what you contribute in knowledge than moolah

Charlie Velasquez
03-15-2013, 8:41 PM
It is all about content

My thoughts exactly. I have benefitted so much from ALL the people that volunteered advice.

If someone that has skills and knowledge and is willing to share, like Jason for instance, leaves the forum for a reason like this, the forum as a whole suffers.

Rick Potter
03-15-2013, 8:52 PM
I am happy to be a contributor here, but one of the reasons I like it so much is that the ONLY thing absolutely required is that we stay civil with each other. Even if they quadrupled the suggested contributor amout, I think most of us would still consider it a bargain for not only the info here, but for the relaxed, friendly atmosphere.

That being said, another of the reasons I like the Creek is because they allow both members and contributors. I have gotten a lot of good information and feedback from members as well as contributors.

The extra benefits from contributorship are, to me, worth more than what we pay. My hope is that more members would agree, but to marginalize them in the core forums would be, in my opinion, a real shame.

Thank you Keith, for this singular forum.

Rick Potter

PS: Sam, I thought your post was just fine. Doesn't hurt to air this out occasionally.

Darius Ferlas
03-15-2013, 8:59 PM
Is this a private fight or can anybody join in?

paul cottingham
03-15-2013, 9:18 PM
Cold drink? What's wrong with a HOT drink??? Sheesh...now you guys want to dictate what I consume. ;)

Dude, you actually made me laugh out loud. Scared my cat. Hope that's OK.:D

Keith Outten
03-16-2013, 9:21 AM
It's good that we discuss this topic occasionally if for no other reason than to remind everyone that although SawMill Creek is technically a business, we are in fact a Community.

The Creek is owned by my sign company, the reason it has to be this way is because there are legal risks involved. I don't like to discuss our financial situation because this Community is part of my sign business, which is definitely private information that I am not obligated to share.

Every six dollar donation is not placed in my hands to spend. Paypal gets 45 cents then we have to pay for bandwidth, hardware, software and a small amount goes to our server administrator. The state and federal government get their share of every donation then we have to pay a portion of the electric bill and a portion of our phone bill plus business insurance, etc.

Monies collected from donations leaves us way short of being able to pay the bills so we have to have advertisers to make up the difference. I spend a serious amount of time marketing advertisers and in all fairness this consumes about 90% of our company phone bill and for the man-hours invested I probably receive the minimum wage. The sad part of this equation is that as this Community grows larger our income goes down, it has always been this way. If you take the time to look at the bottom of our main page you will notice that 100% of the time there are more visitors, people who are not registered here, than there are Members. Our visitors probably consume 75% of our resources however they are a major reason why we are able to attract advertisers.

This year Aaron and I have decided not to replace our main server, we have recently received parts we ordered to do a major upgrade but purchasing a brand new machine is not possible this year even though we are already beyond the time frame that we normally would purchase a new machine. We really need to replace our battery backup system and a few other network items which are part of the reason we will probably wait two more years before we replace our main server. We will be offline for an extended period the day we upgrade our server, this is normally limited to a short outage when we replace our server because Aaron sets everything up in advance however an upgrade means we will be offline to work on the machine.

If you think that 50 cents per month isn't a big deal think again, we could not exist without your help.
.

Andrew Joiner
03-16-2013, 11:51 AM
Thanks Keith. That's good to know. I don't care if you profit more than you are, in fact I hope you do. If I compare the creek to say a magazine, I get much more for my money.

Keith Outten
03-16-2013, 2:47 PM
Thanks Andrew,

Now if we could just convince the other 68,000 people here to feel the same way :)
Maybe we should rotate access to certain forums for a week at a time allowing only Contributors.
.

Sam Murdoch
03-16-2013, 3:18 PM
With a name like Joiner this kind of went without saying Andrew :D.

I second his sentiments though Keith - in case you had any doubts.

John Coloccia
03-16-2013, 4:17 PM
FWIW, I didn't contribute here for a while when I first joined and the main reason was frequent complaining about non-contributors, often times in a confrontational way. It was, in my opinion, rather rude and ungentlemanly. Limiting access to classifieds is the traditional way most sites I've seen handle giving a little something back to contributors. Other sites give larger PM limits, the ability to add avatars (lots of sites won't let you without contributing), making a custom titile, making a signature, etc etc.

I just find it distasteful. Either it's a voluntary contribution or it's a pay site. To say that it's voluntary and then have the membership put down the non-contributors really turned me off. It's gotten much much much better in the last couple of years, but I personally would be really disappointed if it slipped back to how it was. That said, I think most of us wouldn't mind paying a little more. I think I pay about $50 a year for a "gold" membership on another site I belong to. $25 is a "silver" and $12 is a "supporting" member. $6 is extremely low. Perhaps you'd consider having different tiers, with maybe some perks as you go up? I wouldn't mind an SMC mug, for example.

Eric DeSilva
03-16-2013, 5:51 PM
I just happen to notice today that -
there are some folks (that's folk with an s) who have posted 900 + times without becoming contributors to SawMill Creek :eek:


As I understand it, the status shown next to a comment shows the current status of the poster, not the status of the poster at the time the comment was made. So if I make 900 posts while contributing regularly, then spend two years on a sabbatical from the Internet, my posts will show up as "member" status. So saying that you see folks who have posted 900+ times who are listed as members does NOT mean that they have not become members of SMC, only that they are not CURRENTLY members of SMC. There are a lot of reasons why someone's contributorship might have lapsed, including bad economic times, death, change of interests, frustration with SMC policies, or neglect.

ray hampton
03-16-2013, 5:57 PM
FWIW, I didn't contribute here for a while when I first joined and the main reason was frequent complaining about non-contributors, often times in a confrontational way. It was, in my opinion, rather rude and ungentlemanly. Limiting access to classifieds is the traditional way most sites I've seen handle giving a little something back to contributors. Other sites give larger PM limits, the ability to add avatars (lots of sites won't let you without contributing), making a custom titile, making a signature, etc etc.

I just find it distasteful. Either it's a voluntary contribution or it's a pay site. To say that it's voluntary and then have the membership put down the non-contributors really turned me off. It's gotten much much much better in the last couple of years, but I personally would be really disappointed if it slipped back to how it was. That said, I think most of us wouldn't mind paying a little more. I think I pay about $50 a year for a "gold" membership on another site I belong to. $25 is a "silver" and $12 is a "supporting" member. $6 is extremely low. Perhaps you'd consider having different tiers, with maybe some perks as you go up? I wouldn't mind an SMC mug, for example.

If there are any prizes for contributors then I wish for a cap with this message on it " UP THE CREEK " I will buy mine own paddle

Larry Whitlow
03-16-2013, 10:51 PM
I would continue to contribute but if given the choice would probably vote against tiered membership levels (elite vs steerage?). I do agree that $6 is a very low amount to pay for all of the information and enjoyment I receive from SMC. I personally wouldn't blink if the minimum kicked up a few bucks.

Ray, an "Up the Creek" cap sounds good to me.

Steven DeMars
03-16-2013, 11:13 PM
OK, my 2 cents . . . I love SAWMILL CREEK. . . I can get insight and help on anything relating to woodworking, computers, tools, finishing . . .

I purchased an Annual Tool Guide for $9.95 a week ago and returned it before I left the Lowes parking lot. I realized the info in it was very dated compared to what I have always been able to gleen from "The Creek" . . . .

So I have contributed via a hat purchase several times or just PayPal.

Suggestion, Sunset Hill Stoneware has the best made / looking mugs I haver ever held. Perhaps we could do an pre-sold order with a wicked looking mug. I would gladly pay $25.00 for a SAWMILL CREEK Mug from these guys . . . . . . . just an idea . . .

Thanks, Steve . . .

Keith Outten
03-16-2013, 11:41 PM
The 6 dollar per year donation was my idea. I wanted to make sure that even a child would be able to join our Community if they wanted to and be able to make their donation from their allowance. Many of our Contributors provide more than the suggested 6 dollar donation.

Less than five percent of the people here are Contributors so I have to acquire the necessary funds to make up the difference we are short which means advertisers. If I am successful I might make a little money for my efforts but I don't receive any financial gain from Contributor donations.

It's no secret that I have a soft spot for our Contributors because they help me keep the lights on here. I would never be able to support this site from advertising alone. This is the primary reason that I make every effort to support the FreeStuff Program here, its my way of letting our Contributors know that I appreciate their help. Contributors also receive priority when I receive email requests or Private Messages. Most days I don't have enough time to respond to Member requests and I receive a steady flow of email from people who aren't even Members. We host somewhere between 40,000 to 60,000 people here every day and thats a big chore for Jackie and I to manage. Its 24 hours per day and 365 days per year so we don't get a break even if we take a short vacation or we are sick. Late at night here is mid day on the other side of the planet.
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Steven Green
03-17-2013, 2:32 AM
We had a thread started on or about election day. Now in most if not all other forums I've frequented name calling would have been almost instantaneous, didn't happen. There were some heated but polite exchanges laced with humor, and suggestions made as well. As far as I know nobody got banned, the thread died a natural death and no moderator had to shut things down. I call that classy behavior, I think we were warned once but not to stop what we were doing but to remember to keep it civil. All the participants were contributors. Just something that pleased me and gave me reason to feel proud of my community.

Keith Outten
03-17-2013, 8:18 AM
OK, my 2 cents . . . I love SAWMILL CREEK. . . I can get insight and help on anything relating to woodworking, computers, tools, finishing . . .

I purchased an Annual Tool Guide for $9.95 a week ago and returned it before I left the Lowes parking lot. I realized the info in it was very dated compared to what I have always been able to gleen from "The Creek" . . . .

So I have contributed via a hat purchase several times or just PayPal.

Suggestion, Sunset Hill Stoneware has the best made / looking mugs I haver ever held. Perhaps we could do an pre-sold order with a wicked looking mug. I would gladly pay $25.00 for a SAWMILL CREEK Mug from these guys . . . . . . . just an idea . . .

Thanks, Steve . . .

Steven,

I will make an inquiry Monday to see if we could purchase mugs for people here or at least setup some kind of ordering procedure.

Thanks,
Keith

John Coloccia
03-17-2013, 8:42 AM
Steven,

I will make an inquiry Monday to see if we could purchase mugs for people here or at least setup some kind of ordering procedure.

Thanks,
Keith

That would be great. I always need mugs. I'm a chronic soup/tea drinker in the shop, plus I'm always looking for more mugs to hold my tools.

Steve Rozmiarek
03-17-2013, 12:51 PM
I think David is correct and point applies to posts in general.None of the different views as to how something should be done need to be personal. That requires some art from writer and readers. I hope the distance of computer land can keep us from having to adopt the type of qualifiers used in congress....I submit that the FINE GENTLEMAN from (any state)is completely ignorant and his idea has been proven useless...

My yearly contributor status expired last week ( I didn't know you could auto renew ), so I was a member for a while. At nearly the same time, a post started that I got emotionally invested in. The poster, IMHO, was attempting to use this soapbox in an unethical manner to try to gain personal reward. I was thinking about the emotional angle of the sequence of events, which is not a place I'm comfortable being, and wondering if participating here was unhealthy on some deep, dark mental level. I go here to escape work and all the stress that it brings, but somehow that changed for a moment.

After pondering for a couple days, it occurred to me that I don't have any local peers, if I did, I wouldn't have the time to devote to maintaining relationships with them, but if by some change of lifestyle I did, it would likely cost money to do so. Yes, I was mad, but the moderators handled the situation well, and by not participating here I would loose something that was valuable to me.

Further, as Mel points out, we are all usually very good at being diplomatic here, and it is a good place to be. Personally then, it makes sense to contribute on the level that is needed to maintain this bit of a break from the days chaos.

Does it matter that the others don't? Depends on how long the old server lasts I suppose.

Myk Rian
03-17-2013, 1:55 PM
I know a few millionaires, and doubt any of them would pay the $6.
Being retired, and on a fixed income, (although a good one) I don't paying it one bit.

Ken Fitzgerald
03-17-2013, 2:24 PM
Personally then, it makes sense to contribute on the level that is needed to maintain this bit of a break from the days chaos.

Does it matter that the others don't? Depends on how long the old server lasts I suppose.

I like your perspective!

Brian Ashton
03-17-2013, 9:46 PM
Slight deviation... I would like to contribute but I live a long way away (a little island called australia). I don't have paypal and never will. Going to the bank to cut a cheque will cost at least $30 and your bank won't accept it (or aus funny money) anyways. Bank transfer is at least the same cost... How can I be a contributor?

Just a thought, can I pay through paypal if I don't have an account - like ebay?

John Coloccia
03-17-2013, 11:54 PM
You should be able to use a credit card.

Ole Anderson
03-18-2013, 12:14 AM
Better than a mug, how about a customized push handle like our local "club" uses. I cherish mine, and would make a nice additional contribution to the Creek to get one or two with a Sawmill Creek logo. Cranked out on a CNC machine, the cost is minimal and I bet several members with a CNC would willing to help, easy for me to say, I don't have one. And it would put a safety device in the hands of many novice members that just use a dangerous push stick.

Brian Ashton
03-18-2013, 12:48 AM
You should be able to use a credit card.

Do you mean use a credit card direct to Sawmill creek or through paypal?

Keith Outten
03-18-2013, 6:20 AM
Slight deviation... I would like to contribute but I live a long way away (a little island called australia). I don't have paypal and never will. Going to the bank to cut a cheque will cost at least $30 and your bank won't accept it (or aus funny money) anyways. Bank transfer is at least the same cost... How can I be a contributor?

Just a thought, can I pay through paypal if I don't have an account - like ebay?

Brian,

You can use Paypal with your credit card without having a Paypal account.
Make sure that you are logged into The Creek and use the Donate link on the blue menu bar and your account will be updated automatically by Paypal.
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Keith Outten
03-18-2013, 6:27 AM
Better than a mug, how about a customized push handle like our local "club" uses. I cherish mine, and would make a nice additional contribution to the Creek to get one or two with a Sawmill Creek logo. Cranked out on a CNC machine, the cost is minimal and I bet several members with a CNC would willing to help, easy for me to say, I don't have one. And it would put a safety device in the hands of many novice members that just use a dangerous push stick.

Ole,

I have one of the wooden push handles that States Industries gave me at IWF. It was made from apple ply and its a beauty. I don't think my business insurance would cover me making these even though I could machine and engrave them easily. I could make the piece as a sign and the end user would have to cut the notch at the bottom if they wanted to use it as a push handle.

Question is how much would they be worth? The flat rate shipping would be about 8 bucks alone then add material, machining, engraving, edge routing and some sanding.
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Matt Meiser
03-18-2013, 6:57 AM
I organized the purchase of the ones Ole posted. We paid someone in Toledo about $2 a piece for them about 2 years ago. I think they sell them for $8 in their store with other logos. I think he probably undercharged us some but I can send Keith contact info if he wants it.

Pat Barry
03-18-2013, 3:08 PM
It seems that in the past the creek would have an annual merchandise sale.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?60335-Support-The-Creek-Shirts-Hats-Patches-and-Coffee-Cups-Taking-Orders-Now

Of course, everyone knows that. I am sure this generated far less revenue for the creek than the effort required by Keith and Jackie to get the process going. We don't need that now, do we? I think not. Given what Keith has outlined about the way things go financially here, I'd say thank you Keith. We appreciate your efforts.

Now if someone else would volunteer to set the whole thing up and the 'profits' were to go to the creek then I think it would be a great idea.

Steve Meliza
03-18-2013, 3:08 PM
I had been thinking to contributing my $6 one of these days, but just never got around to it and hate to spend any money (no matter how small) on non-essential items that are not part of the monthly budget. This thread reminded me that I just sold some items and happen to have the cash in my PayPal account so I just sent in my $6. I'm not poor, I'm not wealthy, but if you don't put a name and a purpose on each $6 that passes through your hands then you will always be poor.

Matt Meiser
03-18-2013, 3:15 PM
It seems that something like http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/sell/index.aspx?area=openashop&page=openashop would greatly reduce the administrative task of merchandise. Not sure it would work for Keith, but it would give access to a wide array of products with the logo without the need for inventory, shipping, etc.