How to accept larger valued sales

[Scott Shepherd]

We have a piece of equipment we're going to sell and I suspect it's going to be for a fair amount of money. We've been talking about it and no one here has a clue on the best way to handle the transaction. It's a good chance it's going to draw someone from out of state. It's going to be pickup only. Here's my concern's/issues:

1) It's being listed and sold "As is" and will have a signed legal document as such.

2) Won't take credit card because don't want them driving away with $25,000 worth of equipment and then calling the credit card company and saying it doesn't work.

3) paypal- not even considering it with their track record of taking all the money back before investigating both sides of something.

4) Check- no way that's happening.

5) Money orders - could probably be faked, I suppose, if someone was good, and once again, they'd be driving off with our equipment and it wouldn't be a problem until it didn't clear the bank the next day or two.

6) Thinking wiring the funds is the safest way, but if someone drives from 3 states away to get it, I seriously doubt they'll come prepared to wire funds. Doesn't seem practical.

7) Cash - don't think anyone coming to look at it is going to bring a suitcase full of cash either. Doesn't seem likely to happen either.

8) Certified check? Not sure exactly what that means, but I hear it from time to time.


That leaves us at the point of having no clue on how to get paid and let them take the product, knowing that how we got paid is legit.

If it were a local buyer, I'd just say "when the transaction clears, it's yours", but with someone driving here to see it, I don't think they are going to hang around in a hotel until the transaction happens.

So just how do you do something like this? I'm really confused!

[John Pratt]

Without knowing more about the equipment, I will take a swing at this from my own experience. If a large amount of information is provided on the item (with pictures and any issues, problems, etc listed about the equipment; I would think that anyone willing to travel from outside the state already has a pretty good idea whether they are seriously interested in purchasing. With that in mind, a certified bank check would be the way to go. If they decide to back out, they can just take the check with them and deposit back into their bank. I purchased a car in my younger days using this method. If you are still worried, you can take the check to your bank to verify it is valid. With instant verification these days, they can verify a check, especially a certified bank check, in a matter of minutes. Others may have more experience with this type of transaction and give more insight.

[Jeff Monson]

Certified bank check would be my avenue on this. It's good for both parties.

[Sam Murdoch]

I think John is on target - Certified Check or Cashier's Check -- Which Is Better for You?For more info here is a link with explanations.

http://www.credittoday.net/public/1480.cfm

[Andrew Joiner]

I thought the same thing. I recently got a big cashiers check from an out of state bank in the mail from a closed out CD. I took it to my local bank I've been with for over 10 years. They wanted one week to 10 days before they would clear it! I was mad because I had another CD to get and I was losing $15 for each day my money was in "limbo".

If your planning on accepting a certified or cashiers check talk to your local bank first to get their rules on clearing.

[Jay Jolliffe]

Most Secure: Cashier's Check
The normal follow-up to the frequently asked question about the difference is, "Which is better?" Cashier's checks are replacing certified checks as a favored payment method. That's not from experience it's off the net

[Phil Thien]

Certified checks are NOT cashier's check.

All a certified check means (technically) is that the bank has certified that there are funds in the account, I believe. It is still a personal or business check.

A cashier's check, OTOH, means that the bank has removed the funds from the account, and the check is drawn on the bank itself.

Now, I've got bad news for you. A certified check can be stopped. And a cashier's check can be stopped, too. I've done it. I left a check for some work that was to be done in my retail store. The contractor did the work, and then took the check. When I got back to the store, I realized that the contractor had botched the job and some notably expensive features were absent. The way it was done, the work would not pass code.

I called the contractor, the contractor seemed to indicate he wasn't going to do much for me. I told him I'd stop the check.

That is where it got interesting for me. He had already gone to my bank, and converted my check to a cashier's check. So he told me "good luck with that."

That is where it got interesting for HIM. I called the bank, explained the situation, and they stopped payment on the cashier's check. I didn't even call to tell him, because I was suspicious that the bank would actually stop the cashier's check on my say-so. But I was a long-term client of the bank, and they had enough reason to believe anything I would say (because in the past I had been honest even when it worked against me--good thing to have a personal banker that remembers all that human interaction).

ANYWAY, the contractor called me about a week later and was very accommodating all of a sudden. Looks like the cashier's check was stopped.

Due to the way he tried to pull a fast one and then screw me, I told him to come get his stuff and get it out of my shop, I didn't give him a chance to fix it.

So ANYWAY, no checks are good. The only thing that is good is a wire transfer. Something tells me they could still reverse that, but I think it would be much harder.

[Jerome Stanek]

When I purchased my cnc I took a Certified check. My bank told me that I can not stop payment on it and the funds are put in a separate account for a certain amount of time be for I could get it back if I came back with the check.

[Dan Hintz]

If a check of any sort still bugs you, you can always try an escrow service.

[Greg R Bradley]

I can't tell you the best way to accomplish your sale but I can tell you that I have personally seen Certified and Cashier's Checks stopped.

I also know of counterfeit Cashier's Checks that come back to the depositor after a week or so. That is one way that these "overpay for equipment and return the extra" scams work.

A wire transfer is one way but the money is usually not available until the next day. That makes it hard to inspect an item, then pay, then haul it off.

[Phil Thien]

Maybe they could pay in gold bullion?

[Scott Shepherd]

If a check of any sort still bugs you, you can always try an escrow service.

Whoa there buddy......oh wait, you said esCROW :)

How fast does that work?

So it sounds like no check like or money order product is going to be fail safe. That's a tough one for me. I can't imagine letting someone drive away with $25,000 worth of stuff, only to find out the next day or 3 days later that they scammed me.

[Rod Sheridan]

We normally use purchase orders.

Then we send an invoice which the customer pays.......................Rod

[Stephen Cherry]

One thing I have done is to pay by or take a check.

(oh the horror!!!)

The catch is that the transaction takes place at the buyers bank. The check is drawn by the buyer, cashed by the seller, and a receipt is notarized by the bank clerk. The seller walks with dinero, the buyer with the machine, and both with documentation. You would want to call the bank first to make sure that they have the money in hundreds.

The benifit of this is in my mind it is scam proof- you have the cash from the bank. Sometimes the seller is fingerprinted, and always everyone needs ID.

Don't think that paper in any form can't be scammed.

[Chris Kennedy]

I have gotten bank cheques on several occasions -- whether it is technically a certified cheque or a cashier's cheque, I don't remember. It is guaranteed by the bank. It's the kind of cheque that escrow houses require when you close on a house. If they trust them and hand over a house upon receipt, I would trust it.

The fact of the matter is that, unless you demand cash, you are going to have put your trust in something. Rather than ask a bunch of woodworkers -- call your bank. They want your money just as much as you do.

Chris

[Stephen Cherry]

One other thing- cert checks are OK for houses, but the transaction really does not occur until after the closing. And the house is not going anywhere.

Don't think that a nice woodworking machine won't be containerized and on the boat well before the check has a chance to bounce.

[Andrew Joiner]

You could accept cash. Car sellers do this a lot. Have he/she look at your item, make your deal, then you both meet at your local bank to sign a bill of sale and make the deposit. Safest for you but the buyer has to risk carrying cash.

Another option. The buyer could open an account online at your bank or a bank near you. The buyer could wire the money to his account and control it. You would still need to go to the bank and close the deal and transfer the funds from his account to yours.

Again verify all this with your bank.

[Stephen Cherry]

You could accept cash. Safest for you but the buyer has to risk carrying cash.

.

All this makes me think of one of my favorite songs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgyMUChgcbU

[Scott Shepherd]

We normally use purchase orders.

Then we send an invoice which the customer pays.......................Rod

I don't think I'll take a P/O and send the bill to a someone I've never met or done business with and know nothing about.

We do plan to call the bank, I was just curious if there was some magical product from the bank that I wasn't aware of before talking to them. Sounds like it's going to involve more risk than I'd like, but I guess we don't have any choice.

[Jeff Monson]

If a check of any sort still bugs you, you can always try an escrow service.


Whoa there buddy......oh wait, you said esCROW :)

Ha, that's what I was thinking, I think they only deal with cash?

[Brian Elfert]

I read about plenty of cashier's and certified checks that the bank says are good that turn out to be fakes 10 days later. Cash is the only real way of getting paid without things going bad, if you check the cash for being counterfeit before accepting it. I have sold a truck and a travel trailer on Ebay Motors and both went fine, but I don't remember how I verified the cashier's checks.

If the equipment is extremely specialized it is less likely to be stolen since there would be little market to resell it.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

go to a local branch of his bank and watch them make out a cashier's check for you.

[Pat Barry]

Thanks for the link Stephen. Just spent the last hour watching Zevon on Letterman over the years.

[Jim Matthews]

I'm late to the party, and in no way have a dog in the fight.

In a former working incarnation, I sold and serviced hideously expensive hospital equipment.
We worked on purchase orders, which involved enforceable contracts.

Not for nothing, do you know who is buying your gear?
You could gain a little confidence in the transaction if you can review their credit history.

If they can't (or won't) refer you to the bank handling the transaction, have your lawyer review the terms and necessary conditions for the sale.
If you're discussing a sale of a valuable piece of gear that exceeds five figures, your buyer will be understanding that it's a serious matter.

If they're not - that should tell you something.
My suggestion would be to involve a lawyer, incorporated in the State where the sale takes place.

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-645A.html

[Matt Meiser]

When we sold our camper which was around 1/3 of that their bank handed me a cashiers check when I handed their bank the title. Don't know if they could have stopped it somehow, but at least there was an assurance it wasn't fake.

[Scott Shepherd]

I'm late to the party, and in no way have a dog in the fight.

In a former working incarnation, I sold and serviced hideously expensive hospital equipment.
We worked on purchase orders, which involved enforceable contracts.

Not for nothing, do you know who is buying your gear?
You could gain a little confidence in the transaction if you can review their credit history.

If they can't (or won't) refer you to the bank handling the transaction, have your lawyer review the terms and necessary conditions for the sale.
If you're discussing a sale of a valuable piece of gear that exceeds five figures, your buyer will be understanding that it's a serious matter.

If they're not - that should tell you something.
My suggestion would be to involve a lawyer, incorporated in the State where the sale takes place.

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-645A.html

I'm not sure how practical that is. Think of it like selling a car on ebay. You wouldn't take a PO for the car off of ebay from a guy that drives 4 hours to pick up the car, would you? I can't "go to their local bank branch" because I'm not going to them, they will come to me. I have no idea who will buy it, that's my issue. I'm selling something expensive to a complete stranger that I know nothing about. If you were selling a CNC router on ebay, and the guy showed up from 300 miles away, and said "Great, I'll take it, my PO number is 5833. Now, help me load it on the truck, would you?". You'd tell him to get lost.

I'm not asking how to do business to business transactions in a business environment, I'm asking how to sell equipment to a private person.

[Shawn Pixley]

A few thoughts. A D&B report on the buyer?

Transactions:
Cash
Certified Check
Escrow account
Wire Transfer
Escrow through law firm?

[Greg Cuetara]

I know your not too keen on paypal but there are ways that you can work it and not get screwed. One option would be to open up a brand new account at your bank and link that to your new paypal account. Accept payment and then immediately transfer the $$ from your new account to another account or just go to the bank and withdraw the funds. If there is a problem paypal will go back to that account and when there is no money they can't do anything. The problems arise when you have lots of $$ in the account and paypal and take the funds from you. After the transaction is complete close out the account.

[Keith Outten]

Accept one hundred dollar bills and both of you go to the bank so you can make a deposit.
The cashier will verify that the bills are not counterfeit.
.

[Joe Angrisani]

Accept one hundred dollar bills and both of you go to the bank so you can make a deposit.
The cashier will verify that the bills are not counterfeit.

Yep. It all comes down to this choice of you want security.

If he's legit, he won't mind.

[Brian Elfert]

Paypal would likely put a hold on a large transaction with a new account. Heck, Paypal won't pay you until after delivery for an Ebay transaction until you reach 25 total sales on Ebay. A buyer could dispute the transaction while the hold is in place.

[Joe Angrisani]

Paypal would likely put a hold on a large transaction with a new account. Heck, Paypal won't pay you until after delivery for an Ebay transaction until you reach 25 total sales on Ebay. A buyer could dispute the transaction while the hold is in place.

The money is NEVER yours for certain on PayPal for 90 days.

[Andrew Joiner]

go to a local branch of his bank and watch them make out a cashier's check for you.
That sounds good. However my local bank held a good cashiers check from a large out of state bank that I have an account at. During the 10 day hold period the check could be stopped.

If Scott's bank says they wouldn't put any hold on a 25k cashiers check then I'd ask them to put it in writing.
I was shocked that my bank held the cashiers check in my case. Mine was for a lot more than 25k so there may be an amount that triggers some banks.

[Keith Westfall]

If he is serious, then he needs to make arrangements to get the payment you want, to you.

If it's cash (probably the best!) then you go to the bank with him and have them verify the money as real, and put it in the bank, or have the bank take it and issue you a cashiers check. Done deal.

You don't need to, or have the responsibility to finance him in any way - for an hour, a week or 90 days.

Tell him up front - cash, however he wants to get it to you. Doing it at the bank, that would be good.

Cashier check? Do it at the bank as well (see above)

Then load his truck and send him on his way...

[Steven Green]

Certified Check and call the issuing bank on reciept. If it's rubber you'll find out before they leave

[Jerome Stanek]

You can't even trust cash my BIL sold a truck and the guy had some counterfeit bills mixed in. He lost a couple hundred dollars.

[Dan Hintz]

The cashier will verify that the bills are not counterfeit.


You can't even trust cash my BIL sold a truck and the guy had some counterfeit bills mixed in.

They sell test pens for <$10... same stuff the bank uses, but overpriced for consumers. If the money is good (i.e., if it's made of rag, not acidic paper), the mark is a pale yellow... if it's bad, it turns black. It's not foolproof, but it gives you the same info the teller will provide, but with more convenience.

[Jim Matthews]

I'm not sure how practical that is. I'm not asking how to do business to business transactions in a business environment, I'm asking how to sell equipment to a private person.

Dude, you're the one that asked for security in the transaction.
If you're considering any of the online venues for payment, you haven't heard any of the horror stories.

If it's serious money, it merits serious precautions.

[Scott Shepherd]

Dude, you're the one that asked for security in the transaction.
If you're considering any of the online venues for payment, you haven't heard any of the horror stories.

If it's serious money, it merits serious precautions.

I think you missed my point. When I said I didn't know how practical that was, some people appear to have missed my original post and what followed after that. I specifically asked about dealing with an unknown buyer from out of state and some of the replies are "go to their local branch of their bank", or "Take a PO". Neither of those are practical, in my opinion. I appreciate all the advice, the banks are about open now, so we'll make a trip to our local branch and get their advice.

Thanks for all those that offered input!

[Stephen Cherry]

I specifically asked about dealing with an unknown buyer from out of state and some of the replies are "go to their local branch of their bank", or "Take a PO". Neither of those are practical, in my opinion.!

Scott- I just looked at the google maps location for my bank, and they are pretty evenly spread in every state. Most of the banks that I know about are not small regional banks anymore.

Ultimately, I would not accept anything other than 100 dollar bills that are either accepted by your bank, or that you see come out of the buyers bank. You really do not want to underestimate the scammers.

[Ole Anderson]

I bought a boat from a broker and he demanded cash. It wasn't 25k but it was still a lot. So while it seems like a lot to ask, cash is the only nearly 100% safe way to go (only if it is counterfeit would you loose. But you could meet at your bank for the final exchange and they can verify the amount and check for funny money). Personally I would accept wire transfer, cash or a certified check along with a copy of his drivers license.

[Brian Elfert]

The money is NEVER yours for certain on PayPal for 90 days.

Another poster had suggested setting up a bank account just for Paypal and pull the money from the account as soon as it hits. What is Paypal going to do if the account is empty, sue you? I wouldn't recommend Paypal for any large transactions regardless.

[Joe Angrisani]

Another poster had suggested setting up a bank account just for Paypal and pull the money from the account as soon as it hits. What is Paypal going to do if the account is empty, sue you?

Read the fine print for your bank account and for PayPal. PayPal doesn't have to sue you.

[Dan Hintz]

Going with PayPal in no way guarantees you money... PP is well known for siding with the buyer in almost all cases. One barely reasonable complaint from the purchaser and you'll find yourself without the machine and the money. PayPal should not even be a consideration at this point.

[Greg Portland]

It was mentioned before but an escrow service exists for exactly this kind of problem. It looks like escrow.com (1st hit on Google) would charge you $215 on a $25k purchase for escrow services.

[Scott Shepherd]

The bank said the only way they would recommend, in this case, would be a wire transfer.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I actually do this fairly often, one option is to hold the title until a check clears, which of course only works if there is a title. Cashiers checks work, sort of. They are a pain, and banks hold them for stupid amounts of time, so you still won't get your money for ten days. (If the politicians insist on bank reform, they ought to start there...) Cash is a normal feel good knee jerk response, but has actually tried to get $25,000 cash out of a bank??? I have, it is a HUGE pain in the neck.

Look at it from the sellers perspective. Your item is worth more if you give them an easy way to deal with the sale. I personally will not buy anything from the conspiracy theory, black helicopter, email with some code in the subject line cukoos, because no matter how good of a deal the piece of equipment may be, they are such a pain in the neck to deal with, that it is not worth the pain and suffering. Just take a check, and make for darn sure your lawyer knows where to send the cops if it doesn't clear. Ten minutes talking to somebody should give you a good idea of their character. If you don't like them, shut the deal down.

Most of the deals that my company is involved with are just closed with a personal check. The checks are big enough though, that it's a pretty serious crime to bounce one.

[Dan Hintz]

Well, you could offer them the wire transfer option and all of its associated details, but also offer them cash with a 2% discount... $500 off may be enough incentive for them to show up with 245 $100 bills.

[Stephen Cherry]

http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams