A video every new turner should watch!

[Mike Cruz]

Stumbled across this video. Thought, oh no, he's not! But yup, he does. Not just TELL you NOT to use a SPINDLE gouge on bowls, but SHOWS you WHY NOT to... If you've already guessed what's going to happen, you're right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOhHeyoZLaY

[Steve Mawson]

Yep, you knew what was going to happen. Glad I am not the demonstrater.

[Harry Robinette]

Wow that was crazy even knowing what was coming. But your right every new turner should see this.

[Timothy Mann]

I saw that a while ago, certainly proves the point.

[robert baccus]

Like a good Aussie woodturner he did not bleed on the bowl----talent.

[Mike Cruz]

More like "Like a good Aussie turner, he took one for the team!" But I don't know that I give him props for doing some thing he KNEW would happen. He got lucky that that was all that happened to his finger. That could have broken the handle on hig gouge, and the broken handle or the tang from the gouge could have gone into his other hand. Or, his hand could have gone between the rest and the wood, and broken whatever got "caught"...

[Doug Morgan]

Thank you Mike for that video. I have been wanting to turn a bowl. Why was he spinning so fast? Wouldnt you want to get the wood in balance first or more into a shape prior to increasing the speed? Up to now I have been doing spindle work just to learn the basics. Someone sent me this fantastic tail stock that I just cant get enough use out of. Hummmm?

[Keith Christopher]

UGH......just UGH.

[Reed Gray]

Well, it comes up again. Now, to watch it again and analyze. Did any one besides me catch where he said he tried for about 6 hours the night before and didn't get the catch? Robbo (his name on the Australian Woodworking forums) does try to turn the bowl the way most people cut with a SRG. Flutes straight up, bevel high, and lower the bevel till it starts to cut. Although it is hard to tell, he really is doing a bevel rubbing cut. When he gets the catch, again, you have to look closely, he is extended way out off the tool rest. He raised the handle, and actually comes off the bevel. This is where he has the catch. This is pretty much the exact same catch you get if you come off the bevel while using a skew chisel, but with the spinning bowl blank, the catch goes down into the work rather than along the spindle. So, the curious side of me tried the cut with my big heavy scrapers. Safety note here, at a very slow speed so if/when it caught, I could over power the lathe. It works as a controlled cut when you are rubbing the bevel. Come off the bevel by raising the handle, and lowering the cutting edge, and and you get a catch.

Interesting thing is that if you roll the SRG on its side, it cuts very nicely, and very clean, and with no tendency to dig in. If I am using one on spindles, I always roll it on the side, and approach it with the SRG at a 45 degree angle to the spindle rather than straight on. The shear angle gives a cleaner cut, and is much less prone to digging in. You can take a square blank, and cut it cleanly to a finished product if you apply the cutting edge properly to the spinning wood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwlAb2BWHw8

robo hippy

[Mike Cruz]

Doug, I don't think the bowl was out of balance...just not round. IIRC, what he was turning was...a board. So it was flat and centered. Actually, turning faster gives you a cleaner cut. Nice of that person to send you a tailstock...

Yes, Reed, I did catch that (no pun intended). I don't so much think that the reason that you shouldn't use a spindle gouge to turn bowls isn't that you "can't" use one, rather that things can go more terribly wrong with one, rather than a bowl gouge. Not that you can't get bad catches with bowl gouges... My other understanding as to why NOT to use a spindle gouge for bowl turning is that the tang is shorter on the spindle gouges, and not really made for the forces that are produced when you get a bowl type catch...which can break the tool and cause injury. Maybe I'm wrong about that or it is an old wives' tale...

[John Coloccia]

My other understanding as to why NOT to use a spindle gouge for bowl turning is that the tang is shorter on the spindle gouges, and not really made for the forces that are produced when you get a bowl type catch...which can break the tool and cause injury. Maybe I'm wrong about that or it is an old wives' tale...

No, they snap and it's very dangerous.

[Glen Blanchard]

Hasn't there been a concerted effort recently to alter the name of these from the older terminology, 'roughing gouge' to 'spindle roughing gouge' (SRG as mentioned above) in an attempt to drive home the point that this is not to be used on faceplate work? Additionally, for the new turners (like me) the spindle gouge and the spindle roughing gouge are two different tools.

[Hayes Rutherford]

Mike, I say old wives' tale. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't use one to rough out face plate work but if the cutting physics were right, some mfg. would be producing one with a big tang.

[John Coloccia]

Mike, I say old wives' tale. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't use one to rough out face plate work but if the cutting physics were right, some mfg. would be producing one with a big tang.

I've seen broken roughing gouges and so have a lot of other people. You can break them with normal spindle turning in fact. You can't extend them over the tool rest like other tool. When you use a roughing gouge, you always have the rest right up to the work. The combination of bad geometry and extending further over the rest make it extremely likely to break a rouging gouge when doing bowl work.

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, John...that's what I remember... One of the challenges with using the spindle roughing gouge on bowls is that you can't extend them over the tool rest like you an with bowl gouges. Thanks for clearing that up, John.

[Jamie Donaldson]

Hayes, the unsafe practice of using a SRG for faceplate/bowl work is a very valid "ol' wives tale," and several tool manufacturers that I know of do make SRG's with very substantial round tang/shafts such as P&N and Thompson.

[Reed Gray]

You can take a standard bowl gouge, and used in the same manner as Robbo did in his video clip, and you will get the exact same catch. Main reason most gouges catch when turning bowls, especially the inside, is that the flutes are straight up, and a wing catches. Unbalanced tool=catch. Basic lesson, woodturning 101.

robo hippy

[Mike Cruz]

Reed, it was quite evident that when he was first turning the face, the SRG was cutting quite nicely. He was TRYING to get a catch...and therefore got one. Had he not tried, I'm sure he could have avoided it...as a knowledgeable turner. And I agree, you can get catches with bowl gouges when presented incorrectly...no doubt. I launched a bowl that I was hollowing out last month when I was trying to avoid a small piece of metal (lead shot no doubt), by cutting around it. DUH! Can't do that. But with a bowl gouge and an 18" handle, what gave was the grip of the chuck...not the tool. My point was that new turners that don't know the difference should see this to see what can happen when you use the wrong tool (or at least, a tool that "could" be used for a specific chore, but probably ought not to...unless you are experienced) for the wrong job.

[Reed Gray]

I guess the point I want to make is that as instructor, if you use the approach of 'don't use this tool because it is dangerous' then every single tool in the shop should be under lock and key. Instruction, in my opinion should be: this is one tool. It has many different uses. This is what it is intended for, and this is how to use it safely. If you try to use it like this (many examples) it is dangerous and you could get hurt. With the adjustable speed lathes, it is easy to slow things down so you can demonstrate catches without risk of injury.

robo hippy

[Mike Cruz]

Point taken.

[Michael Kellough]

As a beginner I really appreciate both Mike"s posting of the warning video and Reed's video demonstrating a safe way to use the SRG on curved surfaces. (Wish I had a curved tool rest)

I've been using the SRG on the outside of my bowls a lot lately because it leaves such a smooth surface but I've been leaning it over only about 45 degrees, much less than the nearly horizontal orientation Reed shows. Does that sound dangerous? Come to think of it, my tool rest is so short that the SRG looses contact with the wood before it gets too overextended.

[BILL DONAHUE]

Thanks. Good video for old turners, as well.

[Bill White]

Once warned, twice careful.
Bill

[robert baccus]

I strongly agree that a roughing gouge should not be used on bowls BUT, when reground to a 70-75 deg. bevel and almost square across the mouth it is an extremely safe and useful tool on vase shapes. Used straight on the tool rest it is almost impossible to get a catch as the big bevel is riding the wood. Wide spindle gouges work the same way--also the edge seems to last longer. Peels wood of very fast yeah.

[Reed Gray]

Michael,
Generally, the higher the shear angle (as in the more up and down it is) the cleaner the cut. 45 degrees is very common, and works fine for most woods. In more difficult woods the high shear angle is much more gentle about lifting the fiber as you cut.
robo hippy