Substitute EZ-Smart for TS?

[Jon Toebbe]

First things first: an introduction. What's the hackneyed old phrase on radio? "Long-time listener, first-time caller..." I've been lurking here for the last several months, searching the archives and generally being nosy ever since I got bit by the woodworking bug. I'm generally pretty "handy" around the house, but would like to start making furniture.

In any event, here's my dilemma: at present, my "shop" is a 12 ft square deck, and a Workmate. The LOML and I will be moving across the country in a month or two, but before then I've got a few projects to knock out. The next house will have a proper shop, but for right now I've got to break down some 4ft x 8ft sheets of plywood and miter some dimensional lumber. I know I'll need a decent "saw board" to rip the plywood, and have had my eye on Eurekazone's Smart Guide for some time.

The problem is this: I'm a high school science teacher and my wife is finishing grad school -- our budget for tools is... limited. Moreover, we're moving in 2 months, so anything I buy will have to survive the gentle ministrations of the movers. Since I've already got a PC circular saw, and any benchtop table saw is unlikely to satisfy for the long haul, the EZ-Smart seems like the obvious winner.

However, if I get the Smart Guide, that plus the inevitable expenses of relocating will mean I won't be able to get a TS for some time after the move. It'll just be me, a GCCS and a router with the following project list:

Workbench - laminated MDF top, storage below
Router Table - Nahm's, or similar
Shop Cabinets - "fancy" (for me) in order to build skills
Bookcases - probably plywood with simple, contemporary face frames, though LOML does like Arts & Crafts

Do I really need a TS at all to start out? Thanks for your help and advice!

Cheers,
Jon

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jon first.....Welcome to the Creek!

I'd like to say I don't have the EZ Smart guide but......I have a table saw, router table, router and a cheapo aluminum saw guide I purchased at the local Borg.

I built my first piece of furniture over a year ago and then started building my new shop both of which are in the finishing stages.

Could you do it with an EZ Smart system? Yes! I built an oak buffet/sideboard and it's in the new shop waiting for the next coat of poly. I rough cut the sheet goods using the saw guide and my PC CS. With a guide system, a good CS and a good router you can do a lot and including those on your list.

The biggest advantage of having and using a TS is speed of accurate cuts. If you are cutting multiples of one thing, ripping multiples of one width or just the over all speed of setting up a cut. If your TS is reliable, you can set the fence to a given width rip cut, lock it down and go!

Others here at SMC have that guide system and love it. I'm sure they'll reiterate and add to what I've said!

Good luck with your decision, move and again......Welcome!

[Jim Becker]

You can do a LOT of things with a guided saw system and depending on what kind of projects you build, it "could" help you be without a table saw. But I still wouldn't give up my TS as there are also some things that are best done with that tool. I also work primarily in solid lumber and although you can use the guided systems with that, they are best suited for working with sheet goods, IMHO.

BTW, welcome to the 'Creek!

[Mark Singer]

It is kind of like "dinner" without the entre....

[Bob Noles]

Jon,


Welcome to the forum and a really great group of people with a common passion for woodworking.

I have always believed in the old adage "the right tool for the right job".

In looking over your list of projects, I see no reason the that the guided saw system would not get you through if you are very careful with your measuring accuracy. I would still want to add a table saw at some point when circumstances allow. The EZSmart system is great for cutting sheet goods and can give cuts as good as your measuring and marking ability.

I just started using mine and swear by it, but there are times when nothing can compare to a good table saw.

Good luck on your journey and visit often.

[Frank Pellow]

I believe that, given a good GCS+RS (guided circular saw plus router system) system soemone could definately do without a table saw. I regard the router as a fundamental part of the sytem. It is needed for rabbits and dados and is useful for many other things.

I would definately rather be without a table saw than without a GCS+RS. I do quite a lot of remote work without a table saw and did consider doing without one altogether. But, in the end, I decided to purchase a table saw as well.

Oh yes Jon, I almost forgot, welcome to Saw Mill Creek!

[Jeff Sudmeier]

John, welcome to the creek!

In your situation, I would seriously consider the EZ guide or one of the variants out there. Given your list of projects, I don't see why it shouldn't work. Your work may take a little longer than someone w/o a table saw, but it can be done.

If you were looking at the EZ guide replacing the Table saw for the long haul, I would say no way. I use my table saw much more often than the EZ guide. However, I think that one of these systems would serve you well for the time being.

[Bob Marino]

Jon,

I agree with the above posts. Both a Guided Saw System and a ts have their place in a shop. They have some overlapping applications, but are not redundant either.

Bob

[Dino Makropoulos]

[QUOTE=Jon Toebbe]First things first:
"Welcome."

In any event, here's my dilemma: at present, my "shop" is a 12 ft square deck, and a Workmate. The LOML and I will be moving across the country in a month or two, but before then I've got a few projects to knock out. The next house will have a proper shop, but for right now I've got to break down some 4ft x 8ft sheets of plywood and miter some dimensional lumber. I know I'll need a decent "saw board" to rip the plywood, and have had my eye on Eurekazone's Smart Guide for some time.

""You can place one 24"x 48" plywood in top of the workmate or two sawhorses. The first thing that you need is the right material support system.
The smart table top kit is a good way to go.
Extendable and portable.""
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The problem is this: I'm a high school science teacher and my wife is finishing grad school -- our budget for tools is... limited. Moreover, we're moving in 2 months, so anything I buy will have to survive the gentle ministrations of the movers. Since I've already got a PC circular saw, and any benchtop table saw is unlikely to satisfy for the long haul, the EZ-Smart seems like the obvious winner.

"" In my old country teachers got special treatment. better than the doctors and even the priests. And is nothing wrong to get the same treatment here some times. You have our respect for teaching our children and if you can accept a small bonus of apreciation you can double your budget.
I will not guarantee the moving but even if the Ez gets damage while moving you get another one free."""
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However, if I get the Smart Guide, that plus the inevitable expenses of relocating will mean I won't be able to get a TS for some time after the move. It'll just be me, a GCCS and a router with the following project list:

Workbench - laminated MDF top, storage below
Router Table - Nahm's, or similar
Shop Cabinets - "fancy" (for me) in order to build skills
Bookcases - probably plywood with simple, contemporary face frames,

""" No problem there"""
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though LOML does like Arts & Crafts

""Take a look at the Smart clamping system. It was designet for arts and crafts type of woodworking."""
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Do I really need a TS at all to start out? Thanks for your help and advice!

'NO. The only thing that you need is Imagination. The Ez Smart is designed to accomodate your imagination with your space-budget-skills and your excisting tools. ""
Stop over at the SMC swap meet and you can see the Ez and other guided systems at work.""
Welcome to the SMC
YCF Dino

[Tim Marks]

I am sure that the EZ-Smart system is a great cutting guide, but it is expensive ($135 for their base package). There are other cutting guides available that are much cheaper that will essentially the same thing (a quick flip through my woodworkers supply catalog turns up the Red Line cutting guide for $60).

Does that mean that the red line will do everything that the EZ smart will do? I am sure it won't; I am a firm believer in "you get what you pay for". The thing is, when I was starting out without a tablesaw, I made use of a pice of lumber clamped to the plywood with two C-clamps. Amazingly enough, you get a straight cut, and it is free. Is it a PIA to do that way? Yes. But if I was working on a budget, and could only afford one or two tools, I would get the basic tools I should have and not get a glorified accessory.


However, if I get the Smart Guide, that plus the inevitable expenses of relocating will mean I won't be able to get a TS for some time after the move.

This one seems to be a no brainer to me. Make do with what you can now, and buy a TS as soon as you can. Getting a tablesaw should really be your number one priority to start with if you want to do some serious woodworking.

Buy the "nice to have" accessories (like th EZ Smart) after you have the basic necessities, don't let buying them prevent you from getting the tools you should have.

WHat kind of circular saw do you have? It is propbably pointless to buy precision accessories for a crummy circuler saw.

tim

[Jon Toebbe]

First off, thanks to all who have welcomed me "to the Creek." I've learned just enough by lurking to know I don't know much. :p I'll likely end up with a table saw eventually, but it's gratifying to hear from folks who've been successfully making do without.


I believe that, given a good GCS+RS (guided circular saw plus router system) system soemone could definately do without a table saw. I regard the router as a fundamental part of the sytem. It is needed for rabbits and dados and is useful for many other things.
I wholeheartedly agree w.r.t. the need for a router as part of the system. That's a big part of my interest in the EZ -- I've got a nice Porter Cable circular saw and router already. Just add guidance... :)

I'll keep you all posted -- I have a feeling becoming a regular is going to be real easy... Thanks again for the warm welcome, all!

Servus,
Jon

[Dino Makropoulos]

I am sure that the EZ-Smart system is a great cutting guide, but it is expensive ($135 for their base package). There are other cutting guides available that are much cheaper that will essentially the same thing (a quick flip through my woodworkers supply catalog turns up the Red Line cutting guide for $60).

Does that mean that the red line will do everything that the EZ smart will do? I am sure it won't; I am a firm believer in "you get what you pay for". The thing is, when I was starting out without a tablesaw, I made use of a pice of lumber clamped to the plywood with two C-clamps. Amazingly enough, you get a straight cut, and it is free. Is it a PIA to do that way? Yes. But if I was working on a budget, and could only afford one or two tools, I would get the basic tools I should have and not get a glorified accessory.

This one seems to be a no brainer to me. Make do with what you can now, and buy a TS as soon as you can. Getting a tablesaw should really be your number one priority to start with if you want to do some serious woodworking.

Buy the "nice to have" accessories (like th EZ Smart) after you have the basic necessities, don't let buying them prevent you from getting the tools you should have.

WHat kind of circular saw do you have? It is propbably pointless to buy precision accessories for a crummy circuler saw.

tim

Hi Tim. Is funny that you mention the red line.
Hertville tools is the manufacture of this great edge guide.
And this is from the makers of the Red Line.
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EZ Smart Guide System

When we saw this tool demonstrated we were blown away. At first glance it looks like a simple edge guide......but imagine combining a Panel Saw, Radial Arm Saw, Table Saw, Straight Line Rip Saw, and a Jointer into one tool......and at the same time, surpass their limitations. What you have now is one tool that can do almost everything all these tools can do - easier, faster, safer, and better than ever before. We don't have room here to describe all it can do, but we can say its accuracy, versatility, anti-splintering, and anti-chip, features put it way ahead of any panel saw or guide systems we know about.
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This is a story that must be told. The Hartville folks stop over the Ez Smart trade booth in Atlanta last year and they order 100 systems right there.
I knew that they make and sell the Red Line edge guide system and I was very skeptical and surprise with this order by a "competitor"
Jason from Hartville tools explain to me how good the ez is for woodworking and woodworkers that they want to help us out.

"This thing can save a lot of fingers Dino.And make woodworking safer and better....."""
Imagine that now. He was selling the Ez Smart to me.

Now. This is America at its best. Not only Jason, but ALL the guys from Hartville tools stop over to learn the system and thank me for making woodworking better and not a better than the Red Line edge guide. Open minded and dedicated woodworkers.
I have to mention this due to the mention of the Red line.
Thanks
YCF Dino

[Tim Marks]

DOn't get me wrong, Dino, I think you have a great product. And I will be strongly considering it when I shop for an edge guide soon.

The difference is that I have all the basic woodworking machinery, and am now rounding out my tool inventory with jigs and accessories. Last time I cut sheet goods convinced me that I needed an edge guide.

I just think Jon would be better off geeting a tablesaw, which is pretty much the backbone of a workshop. Especially if getting the edge guide means it will be a long time before he can afford a TS.

Hey Jon, Delta 36-675 tablesaw on closeout sale of $317 at some Home Depot. This is a machine that everyone was calling a steal at $399.
http://media.ptg-online.com/media/dm/Products/Tools/ExtraLarge/20040302122955_36-675_72dpi_400.jpg

[Dino Makropoulos]

DOn't get me wrong, Dino, I think you have a great product. And I will be strongly considering it when I shop for an edge guide soon.

The difference is that I have all the basic woodworking machinery, and am now rounding out my tool inventory with jigs and accessories.I just think Jon would be better off geeting a tablesaw, which is pretty much the backbone of a workshop. Especially if getting the edge guide means it will be a long time before he can afford a TS.

Hey Jon, Delta 36-675 tablesaw on closeout sale of $317 at some Home Depot. This is a machine that everyone was calling a steal at $399.
http://media.ptg-online.com/media/dm/Products/Tools/ExtraLarge/20040302122955_36-675_72dpi_400.jpg
Ok Tim.
Let's go few rounds with the table saw VS guided systems.
From your post:"" Last time I cut sheet goods convinced me that I needed an edge guide.""
The Ez Smart and the Festool aren't edge guides. They're woodworking systems with unlimited versatility and applications.
Not as good in a production environment yet , but not for long.
And if you saw the need for an edge guide to cut plywood, why Jon needs a table saw? To cut what? He can buy dimensional stock from home Depot and build cabinets and bookcases.
He can cut-rout and even joint and plane wood with a guide rail system.
Round one.
see you on round 2.
YCF dino

[Tim Marks]

He can buy dimensional stock from home Depot...

'Nough said.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Wrestling plywood onto a contractor's saw is not my idea of fun. You'd be better off with a GCCS for sure.

[Tim Sproul]

Ok Tim.
Let's go few rounds with the table saw VS guided systems.
see you on round 2.
YCF dino

Dino,

I love the EZ Smart system...but it only "replaces" a table saw for sheet goods. Buying dimensioned stock from a big box.... :o :eek: !!!!


Anyways....for those of us who like to make our own face frame stock or who like to use frame and panel construction, a table saw outperforms the EZ Smart in ripping frame members to width.

[Glenn Clabo]

Tim,
One of biggest "finds" I had with the tool was using it to square the edge of rough cut/twisted lumber. I've been struggling with the TS and other jigs for years. Then when I tried the EZ Smart System on a rough board it was one of those E-Piff-E-Knees. My forehead had the inprint of my hand for days after the slap I gave myself.

[Tim Sproul]

Tim,
One of biggest "finds" I had with the tool was using it to square the edge of rough cut/twisted lumber. I've been struggling with the TS and other jigs for years. Then when I tried the EZ Smart System on a rough board it was one of those E-Piff-E-Knees. My forehead had the inprint of my hand for days after the slap I gave myself.

Glen,

I've used my EZ for the same purpose but have never gotten very good results on twisted lumber. I suppose you could shim the guide and such....but it is easier to start out with a flat face.

[Jon Toebbe]

I love the EZ Smart system...but it only "replaces" a table saw for sheet goods. Buying dimensioned stock from a big box.... :o :eek: !!!!
Well, to be honest that's likely to be the source of most of my material to start out. I don't have a shop, and certainly don't have a jointer/planer to take advantage of rough stock. If not the BORG, then a lumber yard that carries S4S and a selection of sheet goods (suggestions solicited!).

btw, thanks for the suggestion on the Delta TS -- that was on my short list, but as I mentioned: right now, my "shop" is a 12ft x 12ft deck. No place to put a TS, and there are projects that need doing now. I'll likely invest in a used contractor's saw once I've got some dedicated space for it. But for starting out, it sounds to me like a GCCS + router will get me where I need to go. There are many ways to skin the cat... ;)

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Jon, you have that right! You have the correct mindset for this hobby. No one way suggested is the right way for every person and every person's budget.

[Rey Johnson]

Let me lend my unsolicited 2 cents here...which will also be my very first post here at SawMill Creek.

I have both the EZ System for about a year with router kit and the new clamping system with several lengths or rails and the EZ table.

And, I have recently purchased a whole host of Festool tools including the Multitable and circular saw guide system.

They are both GREAT products! I do not have a tablesaw! I have been working on weekend projects for about a year and a half now...cabinets for the garage, fish tank stand, etc. I mostly do computer case modifications and builds with acrylic, aluminum, and various other plastics and light metals.

I have yet to come across a project that I could not complete because I did not have a table saw. My EZ system and now Festool system are more than capable of handling what could otherwise be thought of a table saw's job.

And I will keep both EZ and Festool. They compliment each other well!

There...2 cents from a relative woodworking newbie...about 1 and a half years now.

[Bob Marino]

Rey,

Welcome to SMC.Good to have you here.

Bob

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Can we just agree that something like the EZ system and a table saw are complementry? I'm sure you could get by with one or the other, but together they make life so much easier. I don't have a commercial edge guide, but I use a straight piece of plywood 12" wide and rip 4X8 sheets of plywood into managable sizes with my circular saw.

[Greg Mann]

Welcome to the Creek, Ray. I think you will like it, and you won't even need to take sides! :D

Greg

[Dino Makropoulos]

'Nough said.

That was a first round knock out. :(

But I was saved by Jon. :D

""""Well, to be honest that's likely to be the source of most of my material to start out. I don't have a shop, and certainly don't have a jointer/planer to take advantage of rough stock. If not the BORG, then a lumber yard that carries S4S and a selection of sheet goods (suggestions solicited!)."""

And take it down again on the second round by Tim. :( :(

'''' Buying dimensioned stock from a big box.... !!!!

Ok.
on round 3 Rey save the day with some help from his new system. :D :rolleyes:

""" I have yet to come across a project that I could not complete because I did not have a table saw. My EZ system and now Festool system are more than capable of handling what could otherwise be thought of a table saw's job.

And I will keep both EZ and Festool. They compliment each other well!

Welcome to SMC Rey. :)
Good timing. :cool:
YCF dino

[Tim Marks]

And take it down again on the second round by Tim.

you do realize that there were two of us Tim's in that discussion, right? I know it might be hard to keep track with the punches coming fast and furious...:D

[Dino Makropoulos]

you do realize that there were two of us Tim's in that discussion, right? I know it might be hard to keep track with the punches coming fast and furious...:D

Oh yes.
Two Tim's, two punches.
But I was saved by a new Festoolian at the end. :D :D :D
If i can only get Greg in my side.... :rolleyes:

[Bob Noles]

That was a first round knock out. :(

But I was saved by Jon. :D

""""Well, to be honest that's likely to be the source of most of my material to start out. I don't have a shop, and certainly don't have a jointer/planer to take advantage of rough stock. If not the BORG, then a lumber yard that carries S4S and a selection of sheet goods (suggestions solicited!)."""

And take it down again on the second round by Tim. :( :(

'''' Buying dimensioned stock from a big box.... !!!!

Ok.
on round 3 Rey save the day with some help from his new system. :D :rolleyes:

""" I have yet to come across a project that I could not complete because I did not have a table saw. My EZ system and now Festool system are more than capable of handling what could otherwise be thought of a table saw's job.

And I will keep both EZ and Festool. They compliment each other well!

Welcome to SMC Rey. :)
Good timing. :cool:
YCF dino

Dino,

I have been monitoring this thread since it's start yesterday and have been giving serious thought to how "I" work and the nice experience I had using your system weekend before last. I orginally posted that a "table saw should be added at some point". After laying awake last night and thinking through this day and reading further posts, I am ready to retract my orginal statement. I believe that your system "would" allow my shop to be void of a table saw. I believe it so much that I am ready to put my TS on the selling block along with my brand new jointer which has never even been turned on.

My shop is small and I am always struggling for space and these 2 machines seem to dominate a large amount of real estate that could be turned into workspace.

I have given it much thought and will continue to do so for another day or 3, but at this point I am fairly convinced that I could live without these 2 chunks of floor space eating metal and work straight from your system. I know I ordered your router guide over the weekend, but I'm telling you right now that my router table stays :p I love the thing!

You have really set my mind to thinking and I appreciate what you have taught me. I never knew how closed I was to a new and better and safer way of working until I put your system to use.

Thanks for being here and helping.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Bob, I would certainly agree with you, that you could do without your table saw. The Guide will do everything that I can think of that the TS now does. The only problem may be tenon cuts, but you can cut those using hand tools if you choose.

However, my new jointer is my most beloved tool. Being able to know for a fact that your stock is square and flat is essential to wide panel glue ups. Every project I have done so far has contained panel glue ups. The planer of course assures that all stock is of uniform thickness.

It all depends on what type of work you do. If you can get rid of your table saw and jointer, that sure would free up a lot of space for you!

I couldn't give up my table saw for the speed of running multiple peices through it to the same size.

[Dino Makropoulos]

Dino,

I have been monitoring this thread since it's start yesterday and have been giving serious thought to how "I" work and the nice experience I had using your system weekend before last. I orginally posted that a "table saw should be added at some point". After laying awake last night and thinking through this day and reading further posts, I am ready to retract my orginal statement. I believe that your system "would" allow my shop to be void of a table saw. I believe it so much that I am ready to put my TS on the selling block along with my brand new jointer which has never even been turned on.

My shop is small and I am always struggling for space and these 2 machines seem to dominate a large amount of real estate that could be turned into workspace.

I have given it much thought and will continue to do so for another day or 3, but at this point I am fairly convinced that I could live without these 2 chunks of floor space eating metal and work straight from your system. I know I ordered your router guide over the weekend, but I'm telling you right now that my router table stays :p I love the thing!

You have really set my mind to thinking and I appreciate what you have taught me. I never knew how closed I was to a new and better and safer way of working until I put your system to use.

Thanks for being here and helping.

Thanks SMC for having me here Bob. :)

[Dino Makropoulos]

Bob, I would certainly agree with you, that you could do without your table saw. The Guide will do everything that I can think of that the TS now does. The only problem may be tenon cuts, but you can cut those using hand tools if you choose.

However, my new jointer is my most beloved tool. Being able to know for a fact that your stock is square and flat is essential to wide panel glue ups. Every project I have done so far has contained panel glue ups. The planer of course assures that all stock is of uniform thickness.

It all depends on what type of work you do. If you can get rid of your table saw and jointer, that sure would free up a lot of space for you!

I couldn't give up my table saw for the speed of running multiple peices through it to the same size.

Hi Jeff.
This is from Ebay users.
Fantastic device. This is a MUST have tool. Far superior to a panel saw. Thanks
Buyer pgaitg ( 312)


Been loving the guide and now have the SmartTable - brilliant system, Thanks!!!
Buyer paulko70 ( 20)
I love this product! Now to get rid of my table saw. Bidders, anyone?
Buyer koopal ( 53)
saw guide works very good,used for concrete decorative cuts
Buyer jimmy5250 ( 8 )


Make up a list of woodworking tasks that you will like to see at the SMC swap meet in VA. Dificult impossible and straight out never before possible cuts. Let's give the CSGSystems a challenge. :cool:

Tenon cuts and repeatability?
Make that part of the EZ Challenge but don't stop there. :D
See you guys later.
YCF dino