Built-in and baseboard molding...

[Steve Wurster]

I'm going to be making a built-in for what will be my home office. Bookshelves on top of cabinets; cherry; mix of solid and plywood. Stretching from wall-to-wall over a distance of nearly 13 feet. Separate bases under the cabinets to ease construction. I do not plan on having a toe-kick, so I need some ideas on how to deal with the existing baseboard in that room, which is shown in the following picture.

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This baseboard is 5" high, and I really don't want to have my cabinets sit that high. Do you think it would be okay if the baseboard on the cabinets just met the lower flat part at a 90 degree angle, and then have the stiles on the outside notched to fit with the upper curved part? Or should I try something else?

Thanks,
Steve

[johnny means]

While your solution is definitely doable, I don't think the asthetics work. I assume you're thinking about 3-4" base for the built-in. IMO, this would cheapen the look of the built-ins, making them look more borgish or factory made than the rest of the room.

[Mark Bolton]

Three most common options would be 1. Cut the base and install the cabs against the wall as you would normally and just leave the base terminating into the cabinets. Common in kitchens and baths. 2. Cut the base, install cabs, and use a different but complimentary base detail around the base of the cabs. 3. (Best in my opinion) is design your cabs to allow for the base to wrap around the cabs. So cut the old base, install cabs, and carry the existing base right around the cabs making them part of the room and intentional. I know you said you didn't plan on this amount of height but it looks the best in my opinion.

To me most cabs without kicks look best with some weight at the base, molding/trim of some sort.

I just did a rendering for a project with 10" base and while the height is a sacrifice it just looks better
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/esUorTnCC9MppHwAs--ojgyP0W0B1ZDASRT7-U8g6Kc?feat=directlink

[Steve Wurster]

Okay, I think a baseboard height matching the existing would be fine. But since the built-in will be cherry and the existing baseboard is white, I will end up with cherry up against white at some point, either just where the two baseboards meet, or where the new cabinets meed the new baseboard (probably won't look good). Either that or I go with white cabinets (not totally against that, btw).

[Mike Cozad]

I have seen kitchen designs where the base cabinets were painted and the uppers were wood grain. The built in pantry was done to match and looked very good. A quick googling found some good photos of similar designs.

[Steve Wurster]

I'm not sure if I would like the look of white base cabinets with uppers of natural wood for my case since the uppers will be bookcases that will sit right on the counter. I'll have to try out some designs, though.

[Peter Quinn]

I'd get the same molding package or make it in cherry, cope it right into the painted trim, no problem, looks good. Cherry looks great against painted trim. Or you can make the stain grade moldings on the cabinets taller so the painted trim dies into a flat face and the cherry base cap dies into the wall above the painted base, looks good too. If the base on the cabs is lower than the wall trim, looks like a cheap hack, not so good IME, best avoided.

[Brett Bobo]

As already mentioned, match the existing trim for a cohesive look. Since it's an office or study, you could consider replacing all of the trim in cherry as well.

Since you're building separate bases, the top of your bases doesn't have to be flush with the existing 5" base boards if you're planning on face frames. If so, lower the bases so the base board covers the seams of the bases and adjust the width of the rails on the face frame by that offset to match the width of the upper rails or at least be proportionate.

[Steve Wurster]

As already mentioned, matching the existing trim for a cohesive look. Since it's an office or study, you could consider replacing all of the trim in cherry as well.

Since you're building separate bases, the top of your bases doesn't have to be flush with the existing 5" base boards if you're planning on face frames. If so, lower the bases so the base board covers the seams of the bases and adjust the width of the rails on the face frame by that offset to match the width of the upper rails or at least be proportionate.


It's a pretty decent size room, and it already has an existing crown molding with additional moldings below it (not sure what that's called). All of that is white, so I don't think I want to replace all of that.

The bases will be separate carcasses, but I was hoping to tie multiple bases together with rails, and of course just single stiles between each cabinet. It is 13 feet long, but that should still be doable. Now when you say lower the base and adjust the face frame width by that amount, are you saying the face frame would get wider or narrower?

[Jason Roehl]

I think that if the trim is painted, and the cabinets/bookshelves/built-ins are not, it looks best to not carry the room trim across them. White on cherry would be garish and distracting. I also think it looks odd to then have an unpainted trim die into the painted trim. Personally, I'd be a fan of a toe-kick--it does help when trying to reach the upper parts of a built-in bookshelf. The toe-kick doesn't have to be the full height of the existing base, it could be just tall enough so that only the profiled portion of the base dies into the cabinets above the toe kick, and the flat portion of the base dies into the toe-kick (i.e., notch the base before re-installing it).

[Brett Bobo]

Hi Steve,
The width of the bottom rail would get wider and would be equal to the overlap between the top of the base board and the top of the separate base. For example, I recently did a built in with a three part base board for a total height of 7 1/2". Following your same approach, I built separate bases that were below the edge of the top layer of base board by 2 1/4". Therefore, the width of the bottom rails was increased by 2 1/4" for a consistent rail width. There is no advantage to this much of an offset but just give yourself enough play so the base board hides the seam between the upper and lower carcasses. In my situation, the bases were installed ahead of time, before the total height of the base board was determined. This photo was taken during the install. Hope that helps.


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[phil harold]

It is 13 feet long.

Pretty big unit, so there are two approaches that I think would look nice


Install a toekick of normal size ~4" or align it up with your flat part of the baseboard just where turns into the ogee
Just return the base board into the built in


I like the toekick, the white trim stays continuous and the cherry wood not be "garish and distracting" since the white is in the recess of the toe kick

I agree with Jason,
"White on cherry would be garish and distracting"

[Steve Wurster]

Pretty big unit, so there are two approaches that I think would look nice


Install a toekick of normal size ~4" or align it up with your flat part of the baseboard just where turns into the ogee
Just return the base board into the built in


I like the toekick, the white trim stays continuous and the cherry wood not be "garish and distracting" since the white is in the recess of the toe kick

I agree with Jason,
"White on cherry would be garish and distracting"

The flat part of the baseboard goes up to 3.5", and then the ogee starts. But if I have the face frame hang below the bottom of the cabinet (i.e. typical kitchen cabinet style), do you think it would look better if the bottom of the face frame lines up with the bottom of the ogee? That would mean the bottom of the cabinet would be around the 4.5" mark, right?

[Mark Bolton]

Already touched on in one reply but if this were a piece of free standing furniture the natural finish against the painted trim in the room may fit a bit better but when you take it to a built-in you generally try to make the piece compliment/fit the room. Or you change the finishes in the room to fit the "new" feel you want out of the planned built-in.

Where the room is painted trim throughout it would seem if you want to keep it that way it may be best to consider a painted piece or painted/natural combination? Or think about over time swapping out the trim in the room to natural finish.

Second option is definitely a lot more work, and the first may be a large compromise, but one of those options may look better given the work that will go into the unit.

[Steve Wurster]

Here's an example from houzz (my wife loves this site) where there's a natural finish up against white trim. Looks like they continued the crown while the baseboard ends with the (natural) toe kick. My wife likes this design, and the bookcases on top of cabinets style here is similar to what I'm shooting for.

http://www.houzz.com/photos/1628994/Library-traditional-home-office-dc-metro

[phil harold]

The flat part of the baseboard goes up to 3.5", and then the ogee starts. But if I have the face frame hang below the bottom of the cabinet (i.e. typical kitchen cabinet style), do you think it would look better if the bottom of the face frame lines up with the bottom of the ogee? That would mean the bottom of the cabinet would be around the 4.5" mark, right?
either or
make a mock up and see what you like

[Steve Wurster]

I held some pieces up against the baseboard and wall yesterday to give a visual to my wife. She liked it, so I think we're going for that.

[Mark Bolton]

Here's an example from houzz

I think it too will depend on how the piece will sit in the room. If its in an inside corner like that in the image or centered on a wall projecting out (two outsides and two insides), and so on. I personally dont like that painted/natural crown transition but its absolutely an acceptable way to deal with not having to address the rest of the finishes in the room and a floor to ceiling built-in. Same would go for the baseboard.

You could easily run perhaps a shorter and thinner base around your built-in (with no kick) and simply terminate it against the flat portion of the existing base.

Much of it simply depends on what your o.k. with and what your not. For me personally I dont care for that crown transition and may opt to hold the unit down from the ceiling a bit or some other way of avoiding those transition details but its just my preference. I just find that it looks exactly what it is, an addition to a room thats not in keeping with the rest and breaks up the continuity. Of course we all have to make decisions with regards to a major room remodel vs. incorporating a built in. Its a lot more work.

What stinks is, if you have to cope your new crown to the existing like in the image and you do decide to upgrade the room at a later date you will have to tear the crown off the new unit because it will be the coped piece. Something you may want to plan for if you think its even a remote possibility.

[Steve Wurster]

I think it too will depend on how the piece will sit in the room. If its in an inside corner like that in the image or centered on a wall projecting out (two outsides and two insides), and so on. I personally dont like that painted/natural crown transition but its absolutely an acceptable way to deal with not having to address the rest of the finishes in the room and a floor to ceiling built-in. Same would go for the baseboard.

You could easily run perhaps a shorter and thinner base around your built-in (with no kick) and simply terminate it against the flat portion of the existing base.

Much of it simply depends on what your o.k. with and what your not. For me personally I dont care for that crown transition and may opt to hold the unit down from the ceiling a bit or some other way of avoiding those transition details but its just my preference. I just find that it looks exactly what it is, an addition to a room thats not in keeping with the rest and breaks up the continuity. Of course we all have to make decisions with regards to a major room remodel vs. incorporating a built in. Its a lot more work.

What stinks is, if you have to cope your new crown to the existing like in the image and you do decide to upgrade the room at a later date you will have to tear the crown off the new unit because it will be the coped piece. Something you may want to plan for if you think its even a remote possibility.

It will be a wall-to-wall unit, so inside corners on both sides. And the crown molding in that room is not just crown. There's a crown at the ceiling, with about 4 inches or so of flat white below that (I think it's just the drywall at that point and no actual molding). Right below that there is another bit of molding that sticks out (not sure if it's an ogee or not). So while the room has a 9' ceiling height, the top 8 inches or so are various bits of molding. I wasn't planning on repainting the room, so all of that is staying. And it matches the molding elsewhere in the house.

The more I think about this, the more I'm leaning toward painted instead of natural wood. But since I am leaning toward a toe kick I can probably draw it all up in Sketchup and play around with the finishes.

[Dave Brodeur]

Steve, I built something very similar as a built in entertainment center. It is around 9.5 feet in length and the lowers run right into the perpendicular wall which had that very same 5 1/4 trim. What I did was planned to wrap the base of the new cabinets in the same trim. Given that the doors are 3/4 I wanted to trim to come out even farther so I first wrapped the whole base in 3/4 pine that was about 5.5 inches tall and then finished with the trim. This gave it the built in feel that I wanted and really makes it feel like it belongs there. This is the only decent picture I have during its construction. Ignore all of the clutter in the second pic, that was during my kitchen renovation so all of my dishes went here!
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[Steve Wurster]

Dave, I like what you did with the trim. Now I have to convince my wife that white is okay... everything must go through the boss!