Dog Hole Questions

[Dave Novak]

Finally nearing completion on my first real bench, and have a few questions. The top is hard maple, 25 3/4" X 7', 3 1/4" thick. My front vice opens about 13", the end vice about 12".

1. How many rows? I'm thinking 3
2. Spacing; I'm guessing about 7" would work
3. I'm planning to use my festool OF 1400 router and a 3/4" spiral bit. Upcut or downcut? I've never owned a spiral bit, best one for the job?
4. not positive, but my router may not have enough plunge depth to drill 3 1/4". Finish with a regular drill bit?
5. I'm thinking I'll use a big square to scribe lines every 7" (depending on your thoughts on question 2), then clamp boards perpendicular to the lines spaced to guide the router down the length of the bench. Better ideas?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[Chris Padilla]

At least 2 rows but a third won't hurt anything.

For spacing, I'd take half the max opening of the vice and knock an inch off. So in your case, I'd go about 5.5"-6". However, 7" is likely to work fine, too, since it is pretty close. It all comes down to how much you want to crank the vice open to fit.

Upcut pulls chips towards you...into the motor of the router (where the Festool will suck 'em right up) but it *could* tear on on the surface.

Downcut push the chips away from you so less likely for chip out on the surface. However, you are digging out a hole...upcut is what I would use but really, this is a bench...it won't matter. Using a router will get you a very nice, straight, perpendicular hole to finish with a drill bit since I doubt you will be able to plunge it through.

Have fun!

[Charles Wiggins]

Finally nearing completion on my first real bench, and have a few questions. The top is hard maple, 25 3/4" X 7', 3 1/4" thick. My front vice opens about 13", the end vice about 12".

1. How many rows? I'm thinking 3
2. Spacing; I'm guessing about 7" would work
3. I'm planning to use my festool OF 1400 router and a 3/4" spiral bit. Upcut or downcut? I've never owned a spiral bit, best one for the job?
4. not positive, but my router may not have enough plunge depth to drill 3 1/4". Finish with a regular drill bit?
5. I'm thinking I'll use a big square to scribe lines every 7" (depending on your thoughts on question 2), then clamp boards perpendicular to the lines spaced to guide the router down the length of the bench. Better ideas?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/a-few-of-my-favorite-holes

[glenn bradley]

I went with three row leading out from each vise position spaced at 6".

256476 . 256477

[Dave Novak]

Thanks guys. Would it make any sense to start the first half-inch or so of the holes with a downcut bit and finish with an upcut? what do you think of using an Up-Down (Compression) bit?

[michael osadchuk]

Dave,

A couple/three suggestions and what I've done.....

Make yourself a hole location template out of hardboard/thin plywood...... so that you won't have to buy planing stops with moveable pairs of dogs such as these
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=69837&cat=1,41637
Let's assume you will be putting two rows of dogholes aligned with each vise..... what you typically want is for each pair of dogholes into which you would snap in a shopmade planning stop to be EXACTLY the same distance apart as every other pair of dogholes in each double row of dogholes... that way you need make only one planning stop as it will fit into any pair of dogholes where you would locate a planing stop...... the trick is to make a four hole template with each pair of holes being the same distance apart.... after you drill the first pair of dogholes, register the location for the second pair of dogholes by anchoring the template with 3/4" dogs/dowels in the first set of dogholes you just drilled..... and so on, registering the template in every last completed pair of dog holes.

I reamed out the last 1" or so of each dog hole with drill and spade bit - works fast and any splintering on breaking thru of bit is on the underside of bench.

I ease the edges of each dog hole with a small roundover bit (I had a 1/8" roundover bit from a Dremel and used an existing Dremel rounter base, but you can get very small roundover bits for a regular router) ... the roundover bit leaves even smooth easing of the edges of the dog holes.

I have three rows of dog holes running off by end bench Veritas twin screw vise, including the row close to the front of the bench; and a couple running off a front mounted Record quick release vise.

Because of the thickness of my benchtop, my use of the shorter LV dog "pups" and because I didn't want crud and screws, etc. disappearing down every thru drilled dog hole) and because I have as shelf immediately under the benchtop I only drilled a few of the dogholes all the way thru, in locations where I logically would position a long stemmed hold fast; I drilled none of the front row of dog holes all the way thru..... this has worked out well for me and I find that only occasionally do I need to vacuum out the chips out of the "shorter" dogholes when the dog pups or shopmade planning stops none longer can be fully inserted.

good luck

michael

[Frank Drew]

With a hand held router an upcut bit helps pull your machine down onto the work, for increased stability. (The upcut feature also creates a slight tendency for the bit to pull itself out of the collet, so tighten it well.)

[Dave Novak]

Thanks everyone for the pointers. Just ordered a spiral upcut from Carbide Processors since they're so active here at the creek.

[glenn bradley]

Thanks guys. Would it make any sense to start the first half-inch or so of the holes with a downcut bit and finish with an upcut? what do you think of using an Up-Down (Compression) bit?



I started with a Forstner and finished with a 3/4" upcut. I did this because my top is MDF and you can sometimes get blowout and lose a chunk (very undesirable on a bench top). I clamped a backer board underneath and just plunged right into it.

[Dave Novak]

Just as I was about to confirm my order for the router bit, I noticed that the shank on it was 3/4". And every 3/4" spiral upcut bit at Carbide processors has a 3/4" shank. I also looked at Amana tool, woodcraft, and Rockler. Customer service at CP recommended this:

http://www.carbideprocessors.com/3-wing-drill-5-8-dia-1-2-shank-carbide-tipped-southeast-tool-sdr300/ (http://www.carbideprocessors.com/3-wing-drill-5-8-dia-1-2-shank-carbide-tipped-southeast-tool-sdr300/)

Where are you guys buying these bits?

[Kurt Cady]

I have one of these. Haven't used it yet.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_solid.html#spiral_hss_anchor

[Dave Novak]

Thanks Kurt! I guess it's only in solid carbide that the bit diameter does't exceed the shaft width. I'd prefer carbide since I'm drilling pretty wide/deep holes in hard maple, but if continue to get shut-out looking for it I'll go with one of these HSS'. Actually, I can buy several for the price of one carbide.

[David Winer]

All this discussion about routers and up and down spiral bits for drilling dog holes had me wondering. It seems to me that a regular drill should do the job without fuss. But maybe I'm missing something, never having drilled dog holes in a workbench top...until yesterday. My top was 6/4 ash. I drilled starter holes with a 3/4 inch high-quality Forstner, then ran on through with a sharp spade bit (to save wear on the Forstner). I was surprised how easily the job went.

Wouldn't this system work on a much thicker bench as well?

[Geoff Barry]

I did the same as David with a 3 1/2" thick benchtop (2x4s on edge and planed, so maybe 3 1/4" ;p ) I used a framing square to mark out three rows evenly spaced down the bench (matching the holes in my end vise) at 7" intervals, then used a corded drill with the same sort of right angle jig as in David's second picture. Started the holes with a 3/4" forstner bit to get a clean edge, and then reamed out the rest with a 3/4" spade bit. Got blowout on the bottom, but didn't care. It went very quickly.

[Joe Cowan]

I decided to drill one row, and then wait to see what I needed later as I worked on it. So, far I have only drilled two more holes, as the one row has been enough.

[Andrew Joiner]

I decided to drill one row, and then wait to see what I needed later as I worked on it. So, far I have only drilled two more holes, as the one row has been enough.
I have one row as well. The down side to a lot of holes is hardware and fasteners can drop thru. I keep dogs in every hole flush to the benchtop to seal up each hole. Plus they're ready to go in each location, just push the one you need up.