Robust American Beauty vs. Powermatic 3520B

[Glen Blanchard]

Although I am not new to woodworking, I have been a lathe owner for only 9 months or so. I have always enjoyed making decorative boxes and wanted the ability to throw on a finial every once in a while. I bought a Delta 46-460 for this purpose. Since then I have done absolutely no flatwork!! If I'm in the shop, I'm turning. This has gotten me thinking about an eventual upgrade (which probably wont happen anytime soon, but I like to plan ahead). Now I am not a professional and never will be, but I am a serious hobbyist. I'll probably never turn massive bowls or vessels, but I don't want any regrets with my next lathe.

I went to SWAT last year and looked at the Robust line and really like the American Beauty. Who wouldn't?! It certainly has an impressive price tag though. The current Powermatic sale got me to look at the 3520B more than I ever have before. Dang, that thing would be like half the cost of the AB. I like the seemingly better access to the headstock end that the AB has and also the movable controls. I also really like the ability to swing the tailstock out of the way (optional). I don't know that I would ever use the greater swing of the AB however. I like the digital readout of the 3520B, and of course the price. The AB is the better of the two lathes, but the 3520B is a better value.

So here's my question, and I realize I will ultimately have to answer this for myself. That being said, I think I'd enjoy hearing the opinion of others. In spite of the fact that it sure is purty, why would I want to spend another $3,500+ (approx) for the AB?

[Fred Belknap]

Glen value is relative, I'm sure the AB is top of the line and it's value will hold up over time but the 3520B is the work horse of the lathe community. A lot more people have the Powermatic and I haven't heard very many complaints about it. I'm sure it would serve you well. The AB is made in USA and that is important to some. BTW I ordered the 3520B from Amazon last night, $3400.00 delivered. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Jerry Marcantel]

Robust is a finger breaker. I think I'd go with a Powermatic...... hehehe... Seriously, if your not a professional, why would you need anything like a Robust, unless you just want it for the name and bragging rights???? Stirring the waters again..... Jerry (in Tucson)

[Reed Gray]

I stepped up to my Beauty several years ago from a 3520A. Main reason was the 3 hp motor for a bit more torque. You don't need the extra throw for probably 99% of what you will turn. For that matter, most will never go past 16 inches for bowls. That is partly due to tree sizes, and that the market for any bowl over that size is pretty small. The 3520A did not have a digital read out, and I never learned to use one or depend on one. Just turn it up till it feels right. The Beauty does have a stainless steel bed, which was not a selling factor to me. It is nice though. It is made in the USA, and I prefer to buy American when possible. The adjustable legs are a great feature. I had the PM up on a 4 X 4 to get it to height. The beauty has adjustable legs. I had Brent walk me through reprogramming the phase converter so minimum speed went down to around 15 rpm. I need that for sanding my warped bowls. The PM turns off at 50 rpm, and they won't help you program it down. The Beauty had a much better spindle lock set up with more positions, and it is electronic so if you don't turn it off all the way, the lathe will not start up. I have an older Beauty which had 3 speed ranges. The newer ones have 2. If you have problems with a Beauty, you call and talk to the guy who made the lathe, not some tech who has to look in a manual to figure out what you are talking about. The tilt away tailstock set up is really slick. I also have the Sweet 16 which I really love as well and it is worth considering if you want some thing a bit cheaper. More power and torque than I thought it would have. If you want a lathe to compare the Beauty to, the new version of the PM 4224 is close. There is some debate over which is better, cast iron or steel tube for lathe construction. Only difference I could notice was that they make different noises as you turn on them. Both are fine lathes.

I used to flat work too, till I got a lathe......

robo hippy

[Brian Kent]

I have driven Honda Accords for 30 years.
On the one hand, I have never wished I had an Acura or a Cadillac or a BMW, even though those cars are impressive. That's a vote for the Powermatic when it is on sale for $3,400 at Woodcraft.
I drive an EX-L with Navigation instead of an LX, which adds $8,000 to the price. That's a vote for the American Beauty.

The deciding factor for me is that I keep my life simple everywhere, and then focus on the few items that I really enjoy - for those I go the extra measure.
So that's a vote to see if your current enthusiasm grows over the next several years. Then you try both at club meetings, stores, or people's shops, and settle in to which one is worth it for a lifetime. And you see if this is one of many interests or the one that really holds on to you.

I have the Delta 46-460 too. I have watched of a couple of turners upgrade from the Powermatic, but very few. None of them say it was lacking in any way. It sounds like both of those are lifetime lathes.

[Dan Hintz]

Robust is a finger breaker. I think I'd go with a Powermatic...... hehehe... Seriously, if your not a professional, why would you need anything like a Robust, unless you just want it for the name and bragging rights???? Stirring the waters again..... Jerry (in Tucson)
My finger is healing... at least that's what I keep telling myself between winces from pain. ;) I'm not a pro, but I wouldn't want to go less than my AB at this point (though many consider me a minority... and a wacko).

I stepped up to my Beauty several years ago from a 3520A. Main reason was the 3 hp motor for a bit more torque. You don't need the extra throw for probably 99% of what you will turn. For that matter, most will never go past 16 inches for bowls. That is partly due to tree sizes, and that the market for any bowl over that size is pretty small. The 3520A did not have a digital read out, and I never learned to use one or depend on one. Just turn it up till it feels right. The Beauty does have a stainless steel bed, which was not a selling factor to me. It is nice though. It is made in the USA, and I prefer to buy American when possible. The adjustable legs are a great feature. I had the PM up on a 4 X 4 to get it to height. The beauty has adjustable legs. I had Brent walk me through reprogramming the phase converter so minimum speed went down to around 15 rpm. I need that for sanding my warped bowls. The PM turns off at 50 rpm, and they won't help you program it down. The Beauty had a much better spindle lock set up with more positions, and it is electronic so if you don't turn it off all the way, the lathe will not start up. I have an older Beauty which had 3 speed ranges. The newer ones have 2. If you have problems with a Beauty, you call and talk to the guy who made the lathe, not some tech who has to look in a manual to figure out what you are talking about. The tilt away tailstock set up is really slick. I also have the Sweet 16 which I really love as well and it is worth considering if you want some thing a bit cheaper. More power and torque than I thought it would have. If you want a lathe to compare the Beauty to, the new version of the PM 4224 is close. There is some debate over which is better, cast iron or steel tube for lathe construction. Only difference I could notice was that they make different noises as you turn on them. Both are fine lathes.

Reed pretty much said it all. I've turned on both and I don't think you'll be unhappy with either... but for me, some of the extras on the AB were worth the money. I also have the older 3-pully version. The stainless bed is awesome... no need to worry about wiping my bed off while working green wood, and any finish drips are ignored until I'm done for the day. I always want a digital readout on my equipment, no matter the type, but I quickly learned that on the lathe going by what feels right is way better than trying to dial in a specific rate that may / may not matter to what you're currently working on... if the AB had a readout, I'd definitely ignore it at this point. Oh, and I also got Bill Grumbine to sign the headstock before I drove away :p

[Scott Hackler]

Reed might be onto something with the meantion of the Sweet16. I have looked at ALL the various lathes and the only ones that are on my list are the Powermatic anniversary PM3520 (because I liked the black onyx look), the Robust Sweet16 and Robust American Beauty. If money was no object, it would definitely be the AB with the 3HP and tilt away tailstock. BUT..... money is few and far between and I am NOT a professional turner (make my living from it...or any money from it...) so that narrows my focus to either a PM3520 or the Sweet16. I currently have a Nova 1624. Its a very capible lathe, but a 1/3 the weight of the PM and probably 1/2 the weight of the Sweet16. The big selling feature for the PM is the weight and reliability. The Sweet16 is the removable bed and smaller size. Both have variable speed, which I don't have now and sure wish I did.

I don't think that I could find a black PM3520 (don't care for the yellow, sorry) so for me the choice is a Sweet16 and I would build a ballast box to increase the weight.


*I reserve the right to change my mind every 10 minutes.... :)

[Scott Hackler]

Just did a quick price check and it looks like:

approx:

Powermatic PM3520 = $3400 (on sale now)
Robust Sweet 16 with 2HP = $6000
Robust AB with 3 HP and tilt away = $8500

Quite a jump, indeed. But again, if you ask most turners if money was no object...which lathe would they like to own and I would guess a majority would say the AB. There is a reason we all drool over it.

[charlie knighton]

both lathes are super.....several years ago, i choose the 1642 with outboard stand over the powermatic, the robust machines were priced out of wallet

today, not thinking of moving up , both are super lathes, but Dennis has said
As the design develops I'll make standard engineering drawings and materials list for who ever wants them., but with Dennis bowl lathe i would turn better the multi-axis wallhangings. he seems to have a goal of keeping it simple and $ wise.

[John Keeton]

Let me add some thoughts that perhaps never get discussed. I went thru the progression - HF 34706, Delta 46-460, and now a Jet 1642-2. Honestly, everything I have done to date, several of which are on my website, could easily have been completed on the Delta. That said, I do enjoy the Jet.

I will soon be 65, and while in excellent physical condition (I hope!?!), it seems evident there will be a time when managing heavy objects may not be advisable. Removing the tailstock from the Jet in order to use my Monster hollowing system is a one handed operation. It moves easily, as well. Having also turned on a PM 3520, I can say that I do not enjoy the mass of the banjo and the tailstock when it comes time to move them.

I realize I am in the overwhelming minority in making these statements, but really, one needs to look beyond their lusting desires (and, we all have them!) and be honest about what is really needed to accomplish the turning goals one has. If those goals include turning very large chunks of wood, weighing several pounds, then one may need an AB or PM - but, eventually, you may also need to consider how you will manage the weight on a more personal level.

Just some thoughts. I am completely satisfied with the Jet. It has yet to be taxed by the level of work I do.

[Glen Blanchard]

Just did a quick price check and it looks like:

approx:

Powermatic PM3520 = $3400 (on sale now)
Robust Sweet 16 with 2HP = $6000
Robust AB with 3 HP and tilt away = $8500

Quite a jump, indeed.

Yeah, and that doesn't even take into consideration shipping costs. The AB shipped to Dallas would be about $500 and the 3520B is an Amazon Prime item (which, for Prime members, means no cost for shipping). So (for me) that makes it....

Powermatic PM3520 = $3400 shipped (on sale now)
Robust AB with 3 HP and tilt away = $9000 shipped

[Dan Hintz]

Just did a quick price check and it looks like:

approx:

Powermatic PM3520 = $3400 (on sale now)
Robust Sweet 16 with 2HP = $6000
Robust AB with 3 HP and tilt away = $8500

Quite a jump, indeed. But again, if you ask most turners if money was no object...which lathe would they like to own and I would guess a majority would say the AB. There is a reason we all drool over it.
And let's be honest... a more fair comparison to the AB is the PM4224, not the 3250. At $7,500 for the base PM4224, the price comparison is dead on. As far as I'm aware, the PM does not offer the extras offered on the AB, such as the tilt-away. So both start at roughly the same price, but the AB can be modified more extensively.

[Glen Blanchard]

And let's be honest... a more fair comparison to the AB is the PM4224, not the 3250.

No doubt true. I wasn't really inferring that mine is an apples-to-apples comparison, but that if I were going to buy tomorrow I would choose between these two. I would never even consider the PM4224, as if I decide to spend that kind of coin, I'm getting the AB.

[Scott Hackler]

Glenn there is a way around the Robust (or other makers like One Way, Stubby, Jet, Nova, PM) shipping expense and possibly a small discount. Contact the lathe maker of your choice and reserve a demo lathe that they will be bringing to the SWAT Symposium in August!

Dan is right to not compare the AB and the 3520B. They aren't the same machine and aren't priced similar either, but Glen was asking about the 3520b and the AB...so......

John makes a vaid point that I have contemplated as well. What are you going to be turning??? For almost everything I turn, my Nova 1624-44 works very well. I only want a variable speed knob, remote control box, more weight and a bit more power. The 2HP Sweet16 or a Jet 16" 2HP or the PM...would work for me just fine. I can, realistically, not imagine turning any super sized pieces that would validate the need for an American Beauty or that new super sized PM.

[Jamie Donaldson]

The weight of the tailstock on the 3520B(as well as Oneways!) is a consideration, and Robust used to have a tailstock swing-away accessory made for the Powermatic, so that would be a necessary add-on that makes the 3520 even more desirable to me. The 3520B is definitely the leader in value for the money, and few users will ever outgrow it as a lifetime lathe investment.

[Hilel Salomon]

I have both a DVR XP and a PM 3520B. If I were younger and had more money, I would definitely consider buying the Robut AB. That said, the PM is great. As far as tilting the tailstock on it is concerned, there are several aftermarket jigs that will do it. I have one that cost about $200. and it works fine.

[David DeCristoforo]

As one who has never had any "hands on" experience with the machines you mention, my "opinion" might be worth about a half a bag of beans. But here it is anyway. It would be hard to resist the temptation to get into a Robust or Serious lathe. I think I would lean toward the Serious. I would much prefer cast iron to welded steel.


But…. I have seen the PM in all it's glory and I cannot imagine ever needing more lathe than that. And at half the price of either the Serious or the Robust? Not too hard a call to make. The fact is, If I had unlimited funds, i would be hard pressed not to get into a VB36 with all the "bells and whistles". And then get the Serious for smaller stuff...

[Mike Cruz]

Glenn, in a nutshell, you are comparing two different "levels" of lathes. IF you are going to compare the Robust AB to a Powermatic, it should be the 4224B, not the 3520B.

So, I don't think there really is a comparison between the two you mentioned...though I'm sure you'd be happy with either as the 3520B is no slouch!

Now, comparing the 4224B to the AB...well, you'd simply have to compare bells and whistles to see which you'd prefer. You really kinda can't go wrong with either. One feature the AB doesn't come with is a digital tach (or any tach for that matter). Most turners go by feel and don't give a rat's butt about a tach. On the other hand, some do. I know someone with an AB and he has a chart on the wall (laminated, so it doesn't crumble up and disintegrate when he's turning wet wood), and if he needs to know the speed, he looks at his dial, looks at the chart, and he knows what his rpms are...give or take.

So, comparing THOSE two lathes, I think you'll have to look at the specs and see which one suits you better. Might just come down to price (with shipping, crating, etc)...

[Reed Gray]

Oops, I have the Robust Liberty, not the Sweet 16. Must have sliding headstock for me. Sweet 16 looks nice as well. I figure the main competition for the Robust is Oneway, or the other way around since Oneway was out first.

robo hippy

[Bruce Markwardt]

I have just gone through a similar decision making process. I retired last year and decided that a new lathe would be my personal retirement present. In the end, I decided on a Robust Sweet 16 Standard Bed. Placed my order and if the stars align it will be shipped to me in the next couple of weeks. I have never seen one, yet alone turned on one, so I am buying largely based on reputation.

I have a very small shop. I needed something that would fit the available space. I had considered a Robust, the 3520B and one of the Novas. I am sure that any of them would do anything I will ever need. In the end I went with Robust because it is made in the US and you can actually talk to the people who make them. And, I figured this was the last lathe I will ever buy and I wanted to spoil myself!

Financially, I know it's impossible to justify the premium cost of the Robust. In my case, it fit my space perfectly and I know I will never regret the purchase.

[Mike Cruz]

I went with Robust because it is made in the US

If everything else is equal, if that ain't the best reason, I don't know what is. And everything is at LEAST equal among the three you mentioned!

[Jeremy Hamaker]

Interestingly enough, when I bought my PM 3520B Onyx, I was in a position where money actually was NO object to the decision. That being said, to my mind, value always IS an object. I decided on the PM over the Robust American Beauty. The value proposition was just not there for me to double the cost of the lathe for the (to me) relatively minor feature upgrades I'd get.
Price-wise, the comparison to make is the PM4224 vs. the Robust as others have said. In that case, there's really no comparison at all. To my mind, the fact the PM charges what they do for the 4224 is OBSCENE. I about gagged when I first heard the price for that. If I did spend that kind of money on a lathe, it'd be the Robust, hands down. (please understand, my 4224 owning friends, I mean no offense to you...This is just my opinion about my feelings.)
Now, if price IS an object, which it always is for almost everyone, and is again for me, the choice I'd be pondering is the Jet 1642 vs the PM 3520B. In that case, John Keeton's comments above would be very compelling for me. I'd agonize long and hard over which to choose. I'm supremely glad I got my PM, and feel the value for money is definitely there to choose it over the 1642. I'm very glad I was in a position to actually make it happen at one time. But honestly, I've not yet done ONE thing on my beloved Onyx that I couldn't also have done as slickly on the 1642...

[Jeffrey J Smith]

As has been pointed out, comparing the Robust AB to the 3520 is apples to oranges; the 4224 is nearly at apples to apples for swing, power, etc. I took delivery of my 3Hp Robust AB at the symposium in San Jose. Saved shipping cost by hauling it back to Seattle in a trailer.
I spent a long time making my decision. I'm not a professional turner - far from it. I'm rapidly approaching retirement - my 64th B'day is in April and anticipate spending much more time at the lathe when I get there. I looked at the decision as if this was the last lathe I was ever going to buy.
Compared to the Powermatic 4224 or the OneWay 2436, the cost by the time you get them all equaled out was a dead heat. I spent a lot of time (ask Brent - he was patient as I went through the process over nearly 10 months) getting actual turning time on all three to get a feel for what I liked. Brent got me in touch with an owner within driving distance so I could get some time on the lathe. The Robust AB just fit what I do and how I do it better than the other two. The ergonomics are superb - at least for me. It seemed to fit like a glove. The added fact that it is made in the USA and comes with the best support in the business is just icing on the cake.
So, if you're going to compare, make sure it's apples to apples, and make sure you get actual time on the lathe of your choice before committing to a sale.
As has been pointed out - they're all good lathes. At this level, you have to expect that they're well engineered. The choice becomes what fits with how you turn and how's the service. I don't think anyone can compare to Robust for customer service.
ps - Please don't tell anyone, but...I do have to admit to putting a rpm readout on it shortly after installing it (cost less than $35 and an hour of time). I was spoiled early on. I found I don't use it as much as I thought I would, so it'll probably be coming off soon.

[Glen Blanchard]

Just to reiterate. I was not drawing a comparison between the PM3520 and the AB. They are indeed in two distinct levels of product. What I am trying to get a handle on is if (for a serious hobbyist, non-professional) there is good reason to spend the extra money for the AB. Between the two, the PM3520 gives much more bang for the buck (and is thus a better value) while the AB is one of the few dream machines. As I have stated, the PM4224 was never a consideration. If I am going to plop down that kind of money, I'm getting a made-in-the-USA AB.

So this thread was not an attempt to compare the 3520 and the AB. It was an attempt to answer the following question:

Will a $3500 lathe most likely do everything I would ever want/need a lathe to do or would it make more sense to make a larger investment and move up the food chain to the AB? I am still undecided.

[Jeremy Hamaker]

Will a $3500 lathe most likely do everything I would ever want/need a lathe to do or would it make more sense to make a larger investment and move up the food chain to the AB?

To more specifically answer this question, in my opinion, the 3520B will do everything you would ever want/need and do it quite comfortably. My feeling is that the features added to the AB do nothing to expand *what* you can do. Just how luxurious it is to do those things...

In fact, I believe the JET 1642 may just as well do everything most people would ever want/need a lathe to do, and that's yet another $1000 saved...

[Mike Cruz]

Glen, I do see your point. I've turned on both. What the AB will allow you to do is turn a larger blank. The PM3520B has a 20" swing and the AB has a 25" (?) swing. That is one difference. Also, isn't the PM3520B a 2 hp lathe, while the AM can be gotten with 3hp? That, oddly enough can and will make a difference.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the PM3520B. If you had one, you'd likely be thrilled. Here's my thought: If you have the money to get the AB, do it. Why? Because it may be the last lathe you ever buy...or at least for a long time. You may, however, grow out of the PM3520B. I don't really know the history on the prices that Robust has charged for their lathes, but for some reason, I think theirs have been much more consistent over the years than PM and Jet. The PM3520B today that costs $4000 is the same as the PM3520B that cost in the mid $2000s just 4 or 5 years ago. The same Jet 1642 that costs $2000 (sale price...normally about $2400...for the 1 1/2hp motor!) today was $1500 two years ago. For both of those manufacturers, you are getting a product that has dramatically increased in price while the product has stayed the same.

Again, the PM3520B is a great lathe (overpriced if you asked me). But a good lathe! And I don't think you can compare the Jet 1642 to the PM3520B for the same reason that you can't compare the PM3520B to the AB. But if you can't afford the PM3520B, then the Jet 1642 is a good lathe, too. But if you had the money, I'd go with the PM.

For many/most of us, the money output for the AM makes it a "dream" lathe. Even the PM4224 is a dream lathe to many/most of us. And the PM3520B seems to be something juuuuust in reach of more of us than the other two. But if you've got the money...

Lastly, I'll say this: The Jet 1642 is the flagship Toyota/Nissan/Honda. The PM3520B is the flagship BMW/Porsche/Mercedes. The Robust and Oneway are, well, Ferraris/Lamborghini's/RRs. Which will you be happy with/do you need?

[Mike Cruz]

While most of what you are saying is very very true, Jeremy, the simple numbers don't lie and show the limitations of each lathe. The Jet has a 16" swing and has a 1.5 hp motor. So, even turning outboard, you still have only a 1.5 hp motor...and that will limit you on the big stuff. The PM3520B has a 20" swing, and there again, is your inboard limit. Nothing wrong with 2 hp, but again, has its limits. The AM has a 25" swing. Yes a limit, but just about the largest inboard limit available! And at 3hp, will do anything that the other lathes will do...but easier.

Now, if you don't have access to wood now, and never will, that is over 16" in diameter, the other two choices may not be "necessary".

[Dan Hintz]

Will a $3500 lathe most likely do everything I would ever want/need a lathe to do or would it make more sense to make a larger investment and move up the food chain to the AB?

You're probably still deciding as you're asking two separate questions above. A $3,500 lathe will do everything you will likely ever want / need it to do. Moving up the food chain will then become a decision of "Do I want the extras?".

So, consider what you can get with the AB as a lot of ala carte extras... for an extra $3,500, you get immediate "upgrades"; Creations that are possibly 10" larger in diameter, stainless steel bed (I really like this feature), adjustable height (a huge benefit if you're not at the perfect height for the PM3520 and need to stand on blocks, or put the lathe on blocks), and a moveable headstock. The ala carte options then slowly add to the price, but also add functionality... tilt-away tailstock, bigger motor, bed extensions, foot switch, etc. Not to mention Robusts seem to hold their value REALLY well...

[Reed Gray]

Is the Robust a lot more lathe than the PM 3520?

Yup! No doubt about it!

Both are good lathes. If the PM was still made in the US, it would most likely be in the $5000 plus range.

robo hippy

[mark ravensdale]

Personally if money was no object it would be VB36 (long bed) all the way for me, having said that I had a look at the Robust lathes and they look like fantastic lathes, well made in the US (not china which seem to make 99 percent of everything on the planet these days) but the VB36 is just a monster and those bearings ohh my goodness, I've gone all wobbly at the knees ;-)

[robert baccus]

While trying to justify a new toy(Robust or Oneway) I realized that with the bed extension mine will extend to 56" in length or turn 34"? in diameter and adjustable to either. Also the bed extension makes a great base to hold a hollowing stabilizer bar and comes with a very steady tool rest extension. Not bad for a Honda. My rpm indicator fell off ---ok. Most of the yellow is no more yellow.

[Mike Cruz]

Robert, if yours is yellow, then it would be a Beemer or Bentz... ;) BTW, nothing wrong with Hondas, Nissans, or Toyotas. Not bashing them. Just using them for comparisons. Heck, a Yugo will get you from point A to point B...well, it MIGHT get you there... :eek:

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Glen - from your last post - there is only one person that can answer the question - YOU. Get some time on any lathe you're considering. Not just a few minutes; find someone local that will let you bring your tools, some wood, and even your chucks if they'll fit. Spend enough time to get a feel for the machine in use as you'll be using it. Don't forget to cleanup afterwards...and offer something in return. I took the shavings with me.
You'll know immediately if the extra cost is worth it. It takes time and effort to get there, but your local club/s may have people with the equipment you're considering, and few turners seem to be reluctant to share experiences. when you're considering spending that kind of cash, you owe it to yourself to get it as right as possible.

[Alan Trout]

I have used all the lathes mentioned and I ended up with the American Beauty longbed with swing away and 3HP motor. I cannot say enough good things about it. But the reason I would get it over the PM are as follows. I like the design and ergonomics of the machine. The height has unlimited adjustment. 4 bolts and the legs slide in and out so you can set it to what ever height is best at the time and if it needs to be changed later no big deal. The moveable pendent and I also got the foo peddle off switch so when I am hollowing with both hands I have a easy/safe way to shut off the lathe. The swing away is very convenient. Really makes it easy when needed. The power is exceptional. I just leave mine on high range, I have not found a need to go to low range for anything yet. The banjo slides incredibly easy for such a large stable unit. Last but definitely not least is the fact that you have the best business owners in the business to deal with.

Far as shipping what I did was I ask Brent if he wanted to use my machine for demos at SWAT last year. He brought it to SWAT for free. Saved a bunch of cash. But I had to wait a while. I think I ordered it in April and picked it up at SWAT in August.

If you have the funds to get the American Beauty without question it is the way to go.

Alan

[Glen Blanchard]

I like the design and ergonomics of the machine. The height has unlimited adjustment. 4 bolts and the legs slide in and out so you can set it to what ever height is best at the time and if it needs to be changed later no big deal.
Alan

As I will not be making this purchase tomorrow, but am merely doing some brainstorming well in advance of pulling the trigger, I am not under duress to make a definitive decision. That being said, I am leaning to the AB.

Alan - from reading your post, it sounds as if you have reason to make adjustment to the height from time to time (dictated by the procedure being undertaken I presume). I had never considered this. Are there times when lowering or raising the spindle height desirable?

[Mike Cruz]

Just in case Alan doesn't chime back in, Glen, let me just say that from what I've seen of the adjustable legs (I know two turners with ABs and have turned on both of them...the lathes, that is, not the turners...;)), while they are adjustable, it is more of an adjustment at the time of set up than an adjustment for each project. It isn't as simple as changing the belt on your pulley for speed changes. Though, if for some reason down the road, you want to/feel like changing the height, it wouldn't be a horrible experience. Or if you are 5' 8" and sold the lathe to a 6' 3" guy, the new owner could just change the height to suit him when he set is up in his shop.

Or maybe another useful need for changing the height (on a slightly higher rate than ownership change) would be if you are 5' 6" and have the lathe set up for you, but have a demonstrator coming in that is 6' 3". He wouldn't have to be stooped over for the entire day doing the demo...

If Alan does chime in, he may contradict my post. That's fine. He's an actual AB owner, and maybe he does change the height often...

[Brian Kent]

Robert, if yours is yellow, then it would be a Beemer or Bentz... ;) BTW, nothing wrong with Hondas, Nissans, or Toyotas. Not bashing them. Just using them for comparisons. Heck, a Yugo will get you from point A to point B...well, it MIGHT get you there... :eek:

Nope. Yugo was $4,000 and not worth it. Now the Yugo Sport was a different story. That was a plain Yugo that had a decal on the windshield that said "Sport". Sort of like the worse lathe ever created painted a nice mustard color. :rolleyes:

[Brian Kent]

I just have this weird image of somebody getting the Robust lathe and adjusting the height to his or her 6'3" frame.
Take out the bolts.
Lift up the lathe (680 lbs, so 340 lbs per end) and stick in the bolts.

If successful, that 340 lb dead lift throws the back out of whack and from then on he or she can only lift 10 lbs at a time and never turns a bowl over 10".;)

[Jon Nuckles]

I have the 3520B and have just a few thoughts after reading all of the above.
1. The stainless steel ways of the AB would come in handy when turning wet wood; I like to keep my lathe in "like new" condition and spend more time than I'd like cleaning up mid-turning.
2. At 52, I don't mind taking the tailstock off and putting it back on, but I can see a day when an aftermarket swing-away accessory will be on my list. They are available for the 3520B, but I'd factor in that cost when considering your options.
3. The spindle on the 3520B is 10" above the ways, but only about 8" above the banjo. That means you can't easily slide the banjo from one side of your turning to the other if the diameter is larger than about 16". Not too difficult if you are using a chuck or faceplate, but tougher if you are turning something big between centers. I recently turned a side table and had to remove it and remount to get to the other side.
4. If you are among the few who want to turn things larger than 20" diameter, the bed extension for the 3520B will let you do that. I turn large pieces and take aggressive roughing cuts and have never stalled mine. Again, just consider the cost of that addition when making your decision. Also, while most online merchants offer free shipping for the 3520B, I don't think that applies to the bed extension so add that to the cost.
4. Making a remote switch for the 3520B is apparently an easy and inexpensive proposition.
5. I don't see myself outgrowing my Powermatic and have no complaints, but I do drool a bit over the AB and other dream lathes!

Have fun making your decision.

[Reed Gray]

The main reason for needing to adjust the lathe bed height, at least for me is having students who are 'vertically impaired'. An adjustable platform is the way to go. Maybe if I was doing a lot of hollow forms, I would want it higher, or I like the lathe higher for boxes, but turning a 2 inch diameter box on the Beauty is, well, kind of funny. I have a mini Jet for that, and have it set higher so I can see inside better.

As for adjusting the legs, and another positive factor with the Robust is the portability kit. A small screw jack is used, and it locks in very securely, and you give it a few turns, and it is up in the air. While on the wheels, I can easily move it with 1 hand around my shop. Steering it is easier with 2 people. A few years back, I could dead lift one end of the lathe with no problem, but I am older and wiser now.

robo hippy

[Alan Trout]

It is really easy to change the height. I have done it at least once. All you need is a floor jack and a wood block. You put the floor jack under one end of the bed jack it up with the wood block on the floor jack. Loosen the bolts and slide the legs in our our to desired length. Tighten the bolts and set back on the ground. Go to the other end and do the same and you are done. If needed you can do what Brent calls settling of the lathe and loosen the bolts of the leg brackets at the bed and try to shake the lathe and re-tighten the bolts. Just takes a minute if needed.

Alan

[Jason Edwards]

Hi,

Long time lurker, first time poster. Jumped in on this thread as it hits a recurring theme. Some folks have made a car analogy, here is mine, comparing the PM 3520 to the AB is like comparing a Kia to a Corvette. The Kia will get you anywhere you want to go safely and reliably. The Corvette will too, but at a whole different level of experience. If you're happy with the Kia experience, go for it, but don't expect the driving experience you'll have with the Vette. Then if you're thinking about the Vette, make sure your money is well spent. Do your research. The AB is $7775 with 3HP and Tilt-Away (not 8500 as stated above) compare that and its other features like stainless steel ways and it will probably come out on top. Plus, and it doesn't matter what your politics are, I want the US economy to grow and for you and your neighbor to stay employed. Therefore I buy US products whenever possible. That's why there is a Ford and Chevy car in my garage and a GMC truck in the driveway. Jason Edwards, a Robust S16 owner.

[mark ravensdale]

Mike, jet also make the 3520b so the 1644 is not there flagship lathe (they also have the 4424 too), from what I can make out, the powermatic 3520b is made by jet (though don't hold me to that one!) sorry if I'am wrong on that one guys (it's the same lathe but in the US it's marketed under the Powermatic name and in UK and Europe its marketed under the Jet name)
Also if the AB is a Ferrari then that leaves the VB36 as the Bugatti Veyron (real old style British engineering but using bang up to date manufacturing) Damn, why wasn't I born rich!!! ;-)
if I start saving now I might just be able to afford a 5hp longbed VB36 (with all the extras) by the time I die !!!

[Glen Blanchard]

Mike, jet also make the 3520b so the 1644 is not there flagship lathe (they also have the 4424 too), from what I can make out, the powermatic 3520b is made by jet (though don't hold me to that one!) sorry if I'am wrong on that one guys (it's the same lathe but in the US it's marketed under the Powermatic name and in UK and Europe its marketed under the Jet name)

Actually, JET and Powermatic are owned by the same company, WMH Tool Group.

[Mike Cruz]

NOW they are. I don't believe they were back when PM was making the 3520 and 4224. But after they merged (maybe one bought out the other, I don't know), now Jet markets the 3520 and 4224 with their paint.

Prior to their merge, the largest lathe that Jet made/marketed (to the best of my knowledge) was the 1642. As far as I know, PM doesn't make anything smaller than 20". That is Jet's market...here in the States, at least.

BTW, happy 5000 to me! :D

[thomas prusak]

I have a 3520b with the Robust tilt away. The tilt away is very, very, useful.

[George Guadiane]

I am delighted with my 3520A.
There are two basic reasons that I would like to upgrade some day:
It's made IN AMERICA and it's got a stainless steel bed.
The indexing is an advantage too, but not a must. I have seen and almost heard one run above the din of a woodworking show, it appears to of the highest quality and precision.
If I were in your place and if I could AFFORD to splurge, I'd go with the Beauty.
Its on my bucket list.

[Clay Fails]

I've read this entire thread and have a question for those who have turned on both the 3520b and the American Beauty: Do you feel any feedback difference between the two? Where I'm going with this is whether the steel bed and framework of the AB is any less rigid (i.e. more alive) than the cast iron PM? Or are they equal in terms of rigidity and lack of vibration?

My buying decision is now down to between these two machines and I'm down to details.

[John Grace]

Are you willing to make a drive for a deal? See this on Craig's List:
http:// houston.craigslist.org/tls/5241491861.html

[Clay Fails]

John, thanks for the link. That does look like a great deal, but Houston and back with a trailer is not in my near future. Thanks anyway!

[Bob Bergstrom]

Clay I had a 3520 B for 6 years before upgrading to a long bed AB. Both these lathe are very sturdy. I guess the question is how hard are you going to push the lathe. The rigidity of the ways and banjos are very similar. If turning larger unbalanced pieces the Robust has a wider stance and less likely to walk. If you are turning a lot of wet wood, the stainless ways are a plus. The Robust banjo, tail and headstock are cast, but my 3520 was constantly bathed with WD-4. The extra 1 horse is nice but stallable with a good swept back gouge. I like the 25" swing. If you turn on the Powermatic with the lower ways vibration does become a problem and banjo support is the best. I think a better comparison would be a 24 x 42 Powermatic. I highly recommend turning on both. There are a number of turner in your area that would be glad to let you turn on each.

[Clay Fails]

Thank for the input Bob. On balance I think the Robust AB looks like the best long term investment for me. I don't see a need for the long bed, as the extension bed adds 16 inches to the standard configuration, if needed. The 3 HP upgrade looks like a good idea too. The tiltaway tailstock appears to be more of a convenience thing, but not essential.

[Michael Mason]

I would definitely recommend the tilt a way. It is so nice and easy to get the tail stock out of the way.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

I thought this thread died a couple years ago...I had thought the tilt away might be a little overkill - until I got mine and found that I wouldn't give it up on a bet. There's a good reason Brent has started putting it on and tells you that if you don't like it he'll take it back. I doubt he's ever gotten one returned. It would be like ordering a new car just the way you want it, then skipping power windows because you wanted to save a few bucks. Over the life of the car the additional cost is negligible, but the convenience is what you're going to miss.

[Dan Hintz]

Where I'm going with this is whether the steel bed and framework of the AB is any less rigid (i.e. more alive) than the cast iron PM? Or are they equal in terms of rigidity and lack of vibration?

I have yet to see even a tremor out of my AB...

[Dale Gillaspy]

I don't know if you've made your decision yet, but I have to weigh in. While I really like my PM, the above statements about it not being a good comparison are correct. You are comparing a Pickup truck with a Mack truck. I don't believe anyone has mentioned the quality and size of the bearings, which are much bigger and better quality on the AB. As far as liking the digital readout on the PM....I thought I would, too. And I really did, for about 6 months. I don't think I've looked at it in years. Speed is relative. The number really doesn't matter. It is all in relation to the size and the balance of the piece, and now I just go by gut instinct. I think it is funny that one of the after market modifications a lot of PM owners do is the moveable controls, while the AB has it built in....

Price, yep, making products in China will win every time, but Value.....that is a completely different thing. I think item for item, in the long run, the AB is still a better value.

[Reed Gray]

Well, I can't remember, but turned on an A for 7 or 8 years, and on my AB for 7 or 8 also. Biggest difference is the noises they make. The cast iron sounds different than the steel. No lathe bed vibrations that I can feel. The 4240 shown in the add does not have the sliding headstock, a huge factor for me.

robo hippy