Kitchen cabinet design question

[Chris E Smith]

I'm designing frameless cabinets for my kitchen. The room has an 8 ft ceiling and my plan for the upper cabinets is to have 12" tall cabinets at the ceiling with glass panels and backlighting for my wifes bowl collection, and a frame and panel door cabinet below it for storage. My question is whether to make the upper section a separate carcase or just make one carcase with a single piece of plywood forming the top of the lower section and the bottom of the upper section. I think the doors are going to be about 15" wide so the carcase would be roughly 30" wide for most of the cabinets.
It appears as though most manufacturers build a separate carcase for each section in this situation but I'm wondering if this is mainly for convenience and if it makes more sense to make a single box when building custom cabinets. I'm also not sure whether to just push the upper cabinet flush with the ceiling or create a reveal with another layer of material set slightly back from the front.

Thanks, it's amazing how many questions about details come up when you haven't built something like this before. I built many cabinets with my Dad as a kid but they were Formica covered store fixtures with piano hinges.

Chris

[johnny means]

I wouldn't butt cabinets to the ceiling, ceilings are never flat. Often times, the mudding and tape will add almost a 1/4" at the perimeter. As far as the one case or two question, I base things like that on weight and manpower available while installing. If I have four guys to install and lifting is no problem one larger case is less fuss and less joints. If its me and a couple of 2x4s I'm making things as small as possible.

[Sam Murdoch]

I agree with Johnny - you better check your ceiling for flat and then plan on floating some mud to make your cabinets look right.

I would build one upper cabinet across the width. You can build all your other cabinets - have a fully functioning kitchen and then decide exactly what you need for the real size of the display cabinet at the ceiling and what kind and size of trim is appropriate. I think I would plan a detail that allows a top molding (some sort of crown) to fill in the gap at the newly level and flat ceiling.

[Bill Neely]

There are a couple of reasons that it may make sense to build individual boxes: It's easier/faster to build them individually rather than putting in partitiions; if you build a complete section with multiple bays you'll need to use full overlay hinges at the ends and half overlay hinges at the partitions. All this stuff complicates the build IMO. Then there's the hassle of getting the long section into place as someone else mentioned.

[Matt Meiser]

You may find the ceiling is way out of level in addition to out of flat. My parents' was probably 3/4 out. I left space then scribed a molding to the ceiling. You really can't see the variation now unless you are looking.

If just build your boxes as one divided horizontally.

[Mark W Pugh]

I think I would plan a detail that allows a top molding (some sort of crown) to fill in the gap at the newly level and flat ceiling.

I have thought about this a lot. How do you attach a crown molding to a frameless cabinet? Also, how do you cover up "under cabinet lighting" with frameless cabinets? I have read a lot and everything I've been through basically talks about how to build "one" basic cabinet. Thanks.

[Ole Anderson]

I have thought about this a lot. How do you attach a crown molding to a frameless cabinet? Also, how do you cover up "under cabinet lighting" with frameless cabinets? I have read a lot and everything I've been through basically talks about how to build "one" basic cabinet. Thanks.

I am waiting for the answer to that one too.

[Matt Meiser]

Just attach some blocking to the top of the box. Even more reason to leave some space above. I also spaced it out flush with the front of the doors with a piece of 7/8x3/4 stock finished to match.

[rogers kevin]

Boxes divided horizontally type is always preferable because it gives enough space to keep and arrange things properly.Boxes divided horizontally type is always preferable because it gives enough space to keep and arrange things properly.

[J.R. Rutter]

I don't build kitchens, but do build cab doors. I have done a few Euro jobs where they specified doors with glass upper, center rail, and solid lower panel. The boxes had a fixed shelf at the center rail height. Just another way to do this that is simple and cost effective.

And like Matt mentioned, blocking on the top of the boxes to attach the moulding is the way to go. Personally, I would plan for a two piece moulding, to help compensate for ceiling issues.

[Jeff Duncan]

Installing crown on frameless cabinets is pretty simple when you think it through. As mentioned you just add some blocks and your good to go! And of course if it's a custom kitchen your going to have light rail on the bottom. Just make it tall enough to hide the lights;)
http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx268/JDWoodworking/IMG_0118.jpg

good luck,
JeffD

[Chris E Smith]

Thanks everybody, this is a lot of helpful information.

Chris

[Chris E Smith]

My plan is to use pocket screws to attach a skirt that conceals the undercabinet lighting. If the strip is too narrow I might just drill and counterbore it for screws to attach to the bottom front of the cabinet.

[Chris E Smith]

Sam, so I guess what you are saying is build the large lower box then later just slide the display box in on top of it and trim the gap at the ceiling ?
thanks
- C

[Jeff Duncan]

Chris, not sure how your thinking of attaching the "skirt" to the cabinet bottoms utilizing pocket screws? The standard way is to use an L shaped piece which you screw directly through the bottom of up into the bottom of the cabinet. The face of which lines up about flush to the bottom of the doors. The face would have whatever profile you want that goes with your cabinets and be of sufficient height to hide the light rail;) Hope that makes sense?

good luck,
JeffD

[Sam Murdoch]

Sam, so I guess what you are saying is build the large lower box then later just slide the display box in on top of it and trim the gap at the ceiling ?
thanks
- C

Yes - hang your lower uppers first - however they are built then place your very upper cabinets in place. As for attaching crown - adding blocking all along the top edge - before you put your cabinets in place of course.