Problem setting up rail & stile bits.

[ken masoumi]

Actually the bits I'm using is "glass door bit set",similar to the Freud bits:
http://freudtools.com/p-118-recoverable-bead-glass-door-bit-sets.aspx
I have tear out on the rails, The stile cuts were done first may be that's why I have tear out on the cope cuts.
This is my first time setting up rail & stile bits,my next move is the following:

1) cut the coped sides before the stile cuts.
2)use wider stock for rails then cut them to size.
3)use backer block to minimize tear-out.
Any other suggestions? tips or tricks?please let me know .
Any help is appreciated.
Ken.

[Erik Christensen]

i have always used a fresh backer block on my coping sled and have not had any tearout with that setup

[Jeff Monson]

Its tough to not get tearout when you do the stile 1st. I have used a coping sled with a backer that has the cope profile cut into the backer, this way your rail cut will fit into the profile of the backer, leaving no room for tearout. Hope I explained this right.

[Curt Harms]

I've done what Jeff does, profiled backer. I've wondered if it'd be wise to cut copes into wide stock then rip the rails out and work the second edge. If I could get 3 rails out of one board that'd be one rail in three that even had a chance of tear-out. Otherwise yeah, cut the rails a little over width and rip off any tearout.

[George Bokros]

You should do the cope cuts first with a backer board. I do so and do not have tearout.

George

[Rick Alexander]

I've done what Jeff does, profiled backer. I've wondered if it'd be wise to cut copes into wide stock then rip the rails out and work the second edge. If I could get 3 rails out of one board that'd be one rail in three that even had a chance of tear-out. Otherwise yeah, cut the rails a little over width and rip off any tearout.

I like your thinking. The only thing I can forsee that might be a problem is that the board would have to be absolutely flat across the approximately 8 inches needed to get three rails with the kerf. I cut my R&S's 2 3/8 which would give about 7 3/8 needed for 3 rails and 2 saw kerfs. I've got an 8 inch jointer so shouldn't be a big deal to get the board perfectly flat. I think I'll try that next time. I don't really have a big problem with this because I do my cope cuts with a backer first but even then I do occasionally with red oak. With a true 8 inch board maybe you would have enough board left to trim off that tearoff on the one if you did have some there.

[Lee Schierer]

When ever you run a router bit across end grain it is advisable to use a backer piece to prevent tear out. Rails and stiles are no exception to this. Cutting parts oversize also works, but wastes wood and takes extra cuts to get to the finished dimensions.

[ken masoumi]

Many thanks to all who replied,I tried cope cuts first with backer piece and worked out fine ,didn't need to use wider stock at all although it's an option if the stock is cheap pine.
Ken.

[Peter Quinn]

The only time I'm inclined to do the copes second is if the rails are very narrow making the sticking cut challenging. I just finished a set of bifold doors with such a condition, barely 5" long rails, thats not a lot of length to ride the fence for the sticking. So I molded the length of four rails first, cut to length, then coped second. As mentioned above you need a backer in that case with the cope milled along its length. I set up my cope, run a scrap piece for a backer with a sled, or the leading edge of a push block, then the premilled sticking is fully supported, tear out is rarely a problem that way. Just one more option in your arsenal of tricks.

If you get into doors with bars then it is advisable to cope a wide block which can easily be passed by the fences opening without danger of sucking parts in, say 4"-8" or more. In that case I'd cope both ends, mold one edge, cut off the bar, mold another, cut off the bar, etc. The second side of a narrow bar would be molded as a second operation with a carriage that has the cope cut molded into its length. This time you take that first edge you milled while it was wide, it is fully engaged in the coped backer, you have a stop at the back side and a "cover" piece from above to apply down pressure. This helps keep your hands away from cutters and minimizes chatter, which is nearly as bad a defect IMO as tear out. I mention this because you indicated a glass door set was being used. It takes a few different techniques to mill bars for TDL sash doors than your basic cope and stick.

[ken masoumi]

. I mention this because you indicated a glass door set was being used. It takes a few different techniques to mill bars for TDL sash doors than your basic cope and stick.

This bit set ( glass door bits) does take a few different techniques ,I had never used them before but it seems if I set up two routers with rail bit set up in one router and stile bit in the other ,I could adjust the height easier by cutting some scrap wood,specially when setting up the the stile bit you can adjust the thickness of the piece that gets cut off (the narrow piece to secure the glass from the back).

I think I will enjoy using this bit set once I learn to set them up correctly.
Thank you for your input.