Holdfast clearance required?

[Mike Cogswell]

I'm planning a new Shaker style bench. However, I would like to have the ability to use a holdfast or two, which is a problem if there are cabinets under the bench. One alternative is to leave a gap between drawer boxes to allow clearance for a hold fast in the middle of the bench as well as to the left and right of the drawers. That obviously limits where the holdfast holes can be located.

The other choice is to leave a gap between the bottom of the bench and top of the drawer boxes.

So, two questions for holdfast users:

1. Where do you usually use them? Is left, right and center adequate? (Bear in mind there will be a leg vise on the left and an overhang on the right for an end vise.

2. If I really need the flexibility to have one anywhere, how much clearance will I need between the bottom of the bench and the top of the drawer boxes if the bench is 3 1/2" or more thick?

Thanks

[glenn bradley]

I have three drawer units under my bench. The first I built with only an inch of clearance to the underside of the top. It has been a curse ever since. The other two leave a gap that allows me to easily reach my arm under there. Just food for thought as the one extra drawer I got out of the tall unit does nothing to make up for the frustration.

[Zach Dillinger]

One other idea is that you can get a good quality shorter holdfast. My Williamsburg HF from The Best Things is a very nice piece and is a bit shorter than the Gramercy. It will help you with this problem.

[Mike Cogswell]

One other idea is that you can get a good quality shorter holdfast. My Williamsburg HF from The Best Things is a very nice piece and is a bit shorter than the Gramercy. It will help you with this problem.
Thanks Zach. TBT is only five minutes from my house, so I'll run over and check one out.

[Zach Dillinger]

Tell Lee I said hello :)

[Garrett Ellis]

kind of a deceiving thread title, don't you think? was hoping to find a bargain ;)

[Dave Anderson NH]

My opinion for you Mike. If you try to get by with just a couple of holes for your holfasts you will be disappointed and will constantly be trying to find "workarounds" and Rube Goldberg contrivances to fit the few holes you drill. There is no real way to predict what size and shape pieces you will want to clamp to the benchtop in the future and after you install sets of drawers you are stuck unless you leave a few inches between the bottom of the benchtop and the top of the drawer cases. Personally I would either eliminate the drawers entirely and place them somewhere else or limit yourself to drawers under maybe 1/3 of the bench or less. The most important functions of a good bench are as a work surface and as a clamping surface and you jeopardize versatility by adding the function of closed storage which prevents or limits holdfast and bench dog placement.

[Jeff Duncan]

I'm also thinking about building a shaker style bench in the future as I like the overall practicality of that design. I think having the drawers under the top makes so much sense both for practicality of having tools where you need them, and for the additional weight to keep the bench as rock solid as possible. I have a book on benches at home that has some decent details of one so I'll try to take a look tonight and see how they did it. One guess is maybe they used the holdfasts towards the front and back of the bench? One thing I remember about that style of bench is the cabinets/drawers are set back from the front of the bench a fair amount. One reason is to accommodate a sliding support rail. But maybe they also place the holes for holdfasts towards the front as well? Also the one I'm thinking of has drawers only on one side of the bench, the other side is more of a cabinet. Maybe they leave the top off the cabinet so the holdfasts can come down into it?

anyway I'll try to remember to look tonight to see if I can find any more clues.
JeffD

[Charlie Stanford]

My opinion for you Mike. If you try to get by with just a couple of holes for your holfasts you will be disappointed and will constantly be trying to find "workarounds" and Rube Goldberg contrivances to fit the few holes you drill. There is no real way to predict what size and shape pieces you will want to clamp to the benchtop in the future and after you install sets of drawers you are stuck unless you leave a few inches between the bottom of the benchtop and the top of the drawer cases. Personally I would either eliminate the drawers entirely and place them somewhere else or limit yourself to drawers under maybe 1/3 of the bench or less. The most important functions of a good bench are as a work surface and as a clamping surface and you jeopardize versatility by adding the function of closed storage which prevents or limits holdfast and bench dog placement.

Didn't seem to slow Shaker craftsmen down much.

Just sayin'

[David Nelson1]

you could always use a thicker block of wood on top of the piece being clamped to take up the slack.

[Jim Matthews]

I pulled the top drawer out of my bench for just this reason.

The holdfasts barely reach into the opening.
I removed the drawer because with the holdfasts inserted, I couldn't slide it out.
I also couldn't see anything in the top drawer with my shop lighting directed at the bench top.

I'm now building a saw till and access rack immediately behind me, when I'm facing the bench.

[Jeff Duncan]

Ok so I checked last night and all I could see was a front row of holes for bench dogs and one of those pop up style jobs at the end. Not sure if bench dog holes can double as holdfast holes? Seems like if it was designed into it it may be possible? Those benches must have gotten a lot of work done on them so they figured the clamping element out. I do think I'd want the ability to use a holdfast in a couple of spots though!

good luck,
JeffD

[Bill Fleming]

Mike

I just went thru some similar brain damage. Back in 1968 I helped my father build a Shaker style workbench and have been using it since his passing some time ago - and always missed the lack of holdfasts. Anyway in my effort to retrofit the bench for HF's I considered a few options and in my case I placed dog holes along front such that the HF tail comes down either between or at either end of the drawers and toward the middle of the top such that the tail comes down either between the drawers or at the side of the drawer box yet inside the drawer box side. This solution isn't the best but wow what an improvement in usage.

If I were doing it from scratch I would make a smaller drawer box with full or over-extend slides and leave the top of the drawer box well below the underside of the bench top - allowing clearance for the HF's and perhaps a place for clamps and work aids (saw hook, shooting board, planing stop, etc.)

Cheers - Bill

[David Weaver]

I pulled the top drawer out of my bench for just this reason.


I like this solution the best. It's nice to have access to the top, and you can still put stuff between the top and the rest of the drawers if you just cover the drawer that's left.

[Jim Matthews]

Sure it's possible.

If there's nothing underneath the bench top, you can drill a 3/4" hole anywhere you like.
My holdfasts are from Grammercy tools and they sweep a 7" radius - any additional holes should be at least that far away.
I would say a staggered line of holes, left to right across your bench would be enough to hold down nearly everything.
(10 inches in from the front or back of the bench is close enough - I don't use them any closer to the edge.)

I've got maybe ten holes in my entire bench. If I can't manage with those, I'll drill another.

Anything that's large enough to reach the edge of my bench gets clamped there.

Remember the point of holdfasts is the speed with which you can set and remove them.
Anything that makes that complicated is a step in the wrong direction.

[Mike Cogswell]

Since no one has actually answered the basic question (how much clearance will I need between the bottom of the bench and the top of the drawer boxes if the bench is 3 1/2" or more thick?)

I would appreciate it very much if some holdfast users would answer these three questions:

1. What holdfast do you use? (e.g. Grammercy, etc.)
2. If you drop it in a hole on your workbench, how far does it protrude from the bottom?
3. How thick is the bench at that point?

Thanks

[Erik France]

You're still going to get "it depends", as it depends on the thickness of the workpiece.

My Jorgensen CI is 12" from the face of the hook to the rod tip, so with a 1" workpiece and a 3 1/2" bench it'll protrude 7 1/2" or so. I have a flip top planer cart that usually resides under my bench. I can use full size hold downs in the dog holes on either side, but not in the middle unless I pull it out.

My veritas hold down with the short post will always fit. They're spendy, but will really work well in tight spaces.

[Mark Dorman]

I use the Grammercy and when resting in the hole they are 8 3/4" from top of bench to end of shaft.