End vise advice: traditional or wagon?

[Mike Cogswell]

I'm posting this here instead of the workshop forum specifically because I'm seeking advice in the context of hand tool use.

I currently have two workbenches, a long (16' or so) one that is basically a butcher block top on base cabinets. It's almost 30 years old, but was really intended for use with power tools and has no end vise. I also have a small 5' x 2' bench with a full width single screw end vise that has terrible racking. I have gradually turned more and more to hand tools over the past several years, a process that has accelerated since I retired almost two years ago. Since the honey-do and daddy-do lists currently include two more kitchens and five full bathrooms I'm now getting completely away from tools with tails. But for my personal pleasure and satisfaction I've turned to attempting some hand tool furniture, so I really need a better suited bench with much better work holding. I plan to cut the long bench back to 8' or so, but keep it mostly as an assembly table.

For my new bench, after reading a number of bench books and pondering the shortcomings of my current ones, I plan to build a Shaker style bench based largely on the one the the Scott Landis book. I'm pretty settled on a front leg vise, but haven't quite decided on the end vise. While I like the look of a traditional one (like I would have using the LN hardware) I can't help but think I might find a wagon vise (like the Benchcrafted hardware) a better choice.

So, I'd really like to hear from users of either type what you consider the pros and cons of your setup. Hopefully I'll even hear from a few who have used both.

Thanks in advance.

[Jim Ritter]

Hi Mike, I don't have a wagon vise so I can't really compare. I almost put a wagon vise on the bench I built last year but didn't have the room for the overhang that was needed for it. The bench is only 5' long. This past summer a friend of mine retired last year and gave me his Ulmia bench with a tail vise, and I like it a lot. The gap in the face from the jaw I find really handy.
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/a2ab0ac93d072c46278afd144816b0fe.jpg

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/c9d233b4ffd696f9162f9929c109032d.jpg
It just has more possibilities than a wagon. But truth be told I love almost any vise, my work puts a lot of demands on work holding.
Jim

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Mike

I wrote the following on my blog when I was designing and building my bench about 14 months ago:

I was asked why I chose the Benchcraft tail vise.

The choice of tail vise was made on a number of factors, one of which was the space available for the bench. My bench is placed against a rear wall in my garage/shop. The length of the bench is limited by a cabinet, to the left, and a door, to the right. It comes down to the longer the bench, the shorter the tail vise ... or, the longer the tail vise, the shorter the bench.

The Benchcraft tail vise is notable in that the handle remains in one position, that is, does not "screw out" or "screw in" in length. This translates into a short vise, which means I can build a longer bench. The bench size increases from a little under 5' to a little over 6'. This may not sound a lot, but it is a massive change for me.

I was initially planning on building my own version of the Benchcraft wagon vise. However, when Chris Vesper visited with me last year, he mentioned that he had purchased the BC tail vise. When I asked why he had not simply built his own - since he is a top class machinist - he explained that the design of the vise places great stresses on the mechanism (it screws at the side of the captured dog so as to run close to the edge of the bench), and that to accommodate this, the steel work needed to be heavy duty ... and that the BC was built like the proverbial tank. He did not believe he could replicate it. That sold me on the BC for the tail vise.

The link to my build is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/index.html (just scroll down the Index page).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

My bench is an economy Sjoberg with the same vise components for the face and tail vise. Racking is controllable with a stack of shims.

See:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?183743-Anti-Rack-Spacer-Stack

There is a picture with my end vise in the post.

The idea of a wagon vise is appealing, but it doesn't have the versatility of this simpler vise for some of my work.

The vise screw and jaws are easily removed to allow for a piece to be clamped flush to the end. For this I have built a spacer that has dowels that slip into holes at the end to create a rail parallel and co-planer to the top edge. My thoughts for a wagon vise tend to include being able to keep this type of vise on the end of the bench. One design has a removable hand wheel or other operator for the wagon that can be easily removed.

The advantages of this type of vise for my work style overshadow a wagon vise since this style can hold work flat for planing just as well as a wagon vise. The wagon vise does not allow as long of a piece, by a few inches, to be held since the wagon vise span is less than the full bench length and the other is actually beyond the end of the bench when holding.

Often my shooting board or saw hooks are held in the end vise since shooting or sawing in line with the length of the bench works better than across the bench.

Also to consider, a wagon vise is easier to install if the bench top is made with a wagon vise in the design. Other styles of end vises will likely be easier to instal on a preexisting bench top.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Derek brings up an important consideration about the room you have around your bench.

My bench has room around both ends that do not constrict my vise.

jtk

[John Walkowiak]

A traditional tail vice with square steel dogs will be much more versatile and will hold anything you put on the bench. I use the opening for the majority of my work holding. Don't forget to line the faces with leather for the best grip.

[Erik Christensen]

I have had a small knockdown bench with standard single screw tail vise for 30+ years. it was Ok for what it was. when I started to get into handtools a few years ago I was constantly reminded of its shortcomings. just finished a benchcraft shaker build - the wagon vise is the cat's meow.

[Jeff Bartley]

Mike, I installed a Benchcrafted wagon vise when I built my bench a few years ago and it was the best woodworking decision I've made to date! It's expensive but well worth it, Derek isn't joking about it being built like a tank! But I must qualify my endorsement by admitting that I haven't spent much time with a traditional end vise......in fact I think the only time I've used one was at a Lie-Nielsen event. The Lie-Nielsen hardware is nice too but I prefer the hand wheel.

[Jim Koepke]

This thread is of great interest to me since no decision has been made as to how my end vise needs will be handled.

It appears those who have a wagon vise certainly like it.

It appears those who have a regular vise seem to also like their vise.

One advantage that is a plus for the wagon vise is it doesn't extend beyond the bench as much as a vise with a jaw against the end of the bench.

It also has an advantage over my end vise of having a longer travel and no racking.

For me the advantage of my set up is my preference for working at the tail end of my bench than at the face vise end. There are also a couple of other accessories that get used by being held in the tail vise like a couple of metal working vises that are on supports that are held in either of my vises. Shorter stock is also often held in my end vise when dovetailing or doing other things.

My thoughts are still trending toward finding a way to incorporate both types of vises for end vises.

So my request is for others to list what they see as advantages of one type of vise over the other. Maybe we can have a list of why we like one over the other as a reference for those who wonder about this in the future.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

For me the advantage of my set up is my preference for working at the tail end of my bench than at the face vise end. There are also a couple of other accessories that get used by being held in the tail vise like a couple of metal working vises that are on supports that are held in either of my vises.

That echoes my thoughts - I have a small iron vise mounted as an end vise. Someday maybe I'll upgrade to something nicer with a little less potential to rack or sag, but there a lot of sawing tasks I like to do at the end of my bench, it allows me to position my body in a way amenable to the task at hand easier. (This is brought more to the fore because of how my workspace is forced to be laid out as well.) This type of end vise is particularly handy for tenon sawing, and small cuts can be made by holding the work in the vise so that cut line extends past the face of the bench and the saw travels parallel to the front of the bench. Particularly handy for parts that are a little awkward to cut either on the saw horses or a bench hook.

And, as Jim says, I find that type of vise invaluable for holding other things in place - my small metal working vise and bench grinder, each mounted on auxiliary bases are the most frequent. The wide clamping surface of the vise combined with the cleats attached to these bases holds these quite well.

The strong point on the wagon vise seems to be holding work between dogs for working on faces. The more I work wood, the more I find myself liking to work against cleats or battens so that I don't have to clamp things for this work; it's the work where I find myself most often removing the work to get a better look at it, flipping it around to deal with tearout, work the other side, etc. Not saying a wagon or end vise is bad, just the cost-vs-function calculus doesn't work out for me and the way I find myself liking to work. Of course, the way I like to work is really driven by the bench I've been working on! Had I made different choices when I built it, I might be working in a different way.

[george wilson]

I would not even consider anything but a tail vise. I used mine all the time when I was open to the public in the museum. The leg vise was not in a handy location in that shop.I did everything in the tail vise.

I took 2 4"X4" pieces of oak 6" long. I drilled a hole down through the side of each block,one on each jaw of the tail vise. I put a long lag bolt into each block,and had them for vise jaws that could be swiveled to angles to hold musical instrument necks in. It worked out great for the type of work I was doing.

[David Weaver]

I have an end vise in the bench I have now. It's an economy bench, but my next one will have a tail vise.

[Josh Doran]

I'd been on the market recently for an end vise, mostly with the purpose of pinching panels. I already had a bench built with the intent of installing a quick release vise down the road when I found one I liked. So I considered many of the options discussed here. I narrowed it down to a quick release vise, the BC wagon vise, or a twin screw chain drive vise. I thought in addition to pinching panels, it would be nice to have a vise perpendicular to the bench. I figured this way I could stick boards out the edge of the vise and use a drawknife or spokeshave without bumping the handles into the bench. I finally decided on the Lie Nielsen chain drive vise. I chose it for the robust parts, the hidden chain, and the non-racking ability.I had them shorten the chain so I could fit the screws between the legs. This option also saved retrofitting my bench and tearing it up in the process. It will make the bench longer, but for me that's a fare trade. I haven't received my order yet, so can't comment on how I like it. But I think it has great potential.

[Joe E Harris]

Wagon Vice with a LV Screw
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This is a retro fit because i didnt like the Tail Vice called for and the large opening will be corrected.

Joe Harris

[Tom Vanzant]

I see that L-N is introducing two new vises... a Moxon-type that clamps to the workbench and a leg vise... both based on their chain vise. Interesting, but not inexpensive.

[Bob Jones]

I really like my wagon vise. The advantage that I don't see mentioned is that the corner of my bench doesn't move. When I hold boards in the vise the corners of the board are definately sitting on the same plane. The moving parts of the vise do not sag, but if they ever do the board being held will remain flat since the whole surface of the bench stays flat (except the long skinny hole for the vise. I hope this makes sense.

[Erik Christensen]

never mentioned re wagon vises is that you can clamp vertically up to the thickness of the moving dog block and width to the travel - in my case that is about 1.5x24 - anything larger has to use the leg vise

[Frank Drew]

Wagon vises are sexy, I guess, but I'm with those who like tail vises for the increased capacity and overall utility. IMO.

[Pat Barry]

OK. Call me ignorant but willing to admit it and learn. I did a search for both of these animals and all it did was confuse me more. See two case in point examples. One from Chris Schwartz and PWW called Wagon Vise Version 4.0 and the other from Benchcrafted called simply a Tail Vise. Here are the pictures. Whats the difference?
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[Mike Cogswell]

OK. Call me ignorant but willing to admit it and learn. I did a search for both of these animals and all it did was confuse me more. See two case in point examples. One from Chris Schwartz and PWW called Wagon Vise Version 4.0 and the other from Benchcrafted called simply a Tail Vise. Here are the pictures. Whats the difference?
256724256725

The Benchcrafted tail vise is what the rest of the world calls a wagon vise. They call it both a "tail vise" and a "wagon vise" on their website.

[Jim Koepke]

As far as the nomenclature goes a tail vise is pretty much any vise mounted on the end of a bench.

A wagon vise is a type of vise used mostly as a tail or end vise.

As to the difference between the two wagon vises in the images:

It appears the vise on the left has the screw coming out of the bench as the "wagon" opens. The screw goes into the bench when the wagon closes. The mating threads are in the bench.

In the image on the right the screw remains stationary. The mating threads are in the wagon.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

I have been collecting all the pieces for my new bench. I am building a version of Bob Lang's 20th Century Bench but with a Benchcrafted Glide Leg Vise and the new Lee Valley Quick-Release Sliding Tail Vise. For my money Rob Lee has again come up with a superior design that is faster to operate and more versatile than any other option for a "tail" vise. This vise moves the entire front edge of the bench and has dog holes not only in the top of the bench but also on the side. I am excited about the myriad options this vise opens for clamping wood to the front of the bench as well as the top. Another advantage of this vise for me is the simplicity of installation. With dog holes in the front edge, front stretcher and front of the base piece I believe I have a sturdier, better system for using holdfasts or Veritas Surface Clamps than a sliding deadman.

Now all I have to do is decide if the new Benchcrafted crisscross will improve my Glide Leg vise enough to justify the expense and effort of installation.

[Eric Hartunian]

Am I the only one who doesn't use a tail vise? I built a Shaker style bench years ago, tail vise and leg vise. I started using it, but found that I work much faster without it. I just plane against a stop. The board might move around a bit, but it really doesn't matter in the end. Thoughts?
Eric

[Jim Ritter]

I have a bench with a traditional tail vise and use it a lot but not to clamp boards for planing. I use the dogs mostly to clamp jigs, and the front opening jaws another often used vise.

[Jim Koepke]

Am I the only one who doesn't use a tail vise? I built a Shaker style bench years ago, tail vise and leg vise. I started using it, but found that I work much faster without it. I just plane against a stop. The board might move around a bit, but it really doesn't matter in the end. Thoughts?
Eric

A lot of pieces get planed being held against a board clamped to the end of my bench for a stop. One piece of bench furniture is a flat piece of wood with a large 'V' cut into it that rests against the end stop and has a small piece of scrap screwed to the side that gets held by the face vise. This helps to prevent some of the moving around and makes it easier to do edges without having to use the vises. Having a few different thicknesses and sizes is handy if you work a lot of different sized stock.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

Veritas has a new planing stop that is only .22" above the bench. It has 2, 3/4" steel posts that slide in a rail in the bottom to fit various widths between dog holes. There is a 9 3/4" ( up to 9" spread between posts) version and a 17 1/2" ( up to 16 3/4" between posts). Two can be adjusted to fit perfectly perpendicular to each other trapping a board on two sides. The new Veritas stop can function as a more versatile dog that a tail vise could "clamp" against. The tail vise could also be used to trap a board against a couple of Veritas's stops without applying pressure that might distort the board. Rob Lee has done it again.

My tail vise can assist with clamping wood to the front side as well as the top of the bench.

[John Walkowiak]

As far as the nomenclature goes a tail vise is pretty much any vise mounted on the end of a bench.

A wagon vise is a type of vise used mostly as a tail or end vise.

As to the difference between the two wagon vises in the images:

It appears the vise on the left has the screw coming out of the bench as the "wagon" opens. The screw goes into the bench when the wagon closes. The mating threads are in the bench.

In the image on the right the screw remains stationary. The mating threads are in the wagon.

jtk

In my experience, and historically, a tail vice is one such as shown in the first reply here. Also refered to as a German or Scandianavian vice. Think Frank Klaus, Tage Frid or a Shaker bench. They are used with square, steel bench dogs. They operate very fast due to either a wooden screw or a coarse threaded steel screw.
A modern steel screw takes nearly twice as many turns to operate as an old one. They can give tail vices a bad rap for taking so long to adjust. I have no idea why modern screw makers don't make them more coarse. Some made with steel sliding parts, which came installed on commercial bench's in the last 30 years are junk and don't work well at all. These have also given tail vices a bad rap.
Recently, a lot of other "vices" are sold as or are called tail vices. Makes things very confusing to those just starting out.
If you take the time to make a traditional tail vice out of wood, it will last your lifetime. And should it wear, it is made of wood, so it can be repaired and easily brought back to new condition.
A modern version, using steel, such as the LN, should also last forever and would be easier to install, but will cost more than building the wooden version.

Remember, this is the type of bench that was used by all woodworkers from the time the vice-less bench's of 150 or 200 years ago were abandoned by woodworkers, until hand tool woodworking pretty much ended in the 1930's. There had to be a good reason for this!

[Frank Drew]

a tail vice is ... used with square, steel bench dogs. Or square wood dogs, my preference.

[James Scheffler]

Am I the only one who doesn't use a tail vise? I built a Shaker style bench years ago, tail vise and leg vise. I started using it, but found that I work much faster without it. I just plane against a stop. The board might move around a bit, but it really doesn't matter in the end. Thoughts?
Eric

My wagon vise broke years ago (don't ask) and out of frustration, I started using a planing stop. It took about 30 minutes to make out of scrap, is completely reliable, and works great. I have lived without a tail vise of any sort for years, so I agree that it's quite possible to do woodworking without one.

Just a couple weeks ago, I got ambitious and fixed my wagon vise. I haven't used it yet, but it will be interesting to see how things change now that I have it.

[Kees Heiden]

How do you guys handle cross grain planing without some kind of a tail vise?

Even with a tailvise I always use some battens against the wall to support the traverse planing action. Just curious how this works out without a tailvise.

[James Scheffler]

How do you guys handle cross grain planing without some kind of a tail vise?

Even with a tailvise I always use some battens against the wall to support the traverse planing action. Just curious how this works out without a tailvise.

I find that just using battens or dogs is usually enough for planing a board face across the grain. I guess there are occasions where a tail vise would help too.

[Derek Cohen]

For nearly 2 decades I worked without a tail vise. Now I have one (the BC wagon vise) and I know I did it the hard way in the past. The tail vise has opened up so many extra avenues to hold work.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Staffan Hamala]

I've been considering what kind of end vice I want when I start my workbench rebuild. I don't have any end vice today, but I would like one, and plan to add one when I make a new top for the workbench (I also plan to add a leg vice instead of my current front vice).

I initially thought about adding a wagon wise. But I recently watched a Tage Frid video, that made me change my mind. I now plan to add a tail vice instead.

I realized that with a tail vice, I don't only get the dog holes, but also the possibility to clamp things between the jaws.
I'm attaching a few screen shots from the video, where Tage Frid is sawing half blind dovetails using the tail vice. This is what changed my mind. Being able to clamp things at an angle, like this, would be very useful. I can see how this would be a good alternative to a Moxon "vice on bench".

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[Doug Ladendorf]

This is of interest to me too. Great to have the quality options we do now.

[Prashun Patel]

When I was considering options, I was under the impression that wagons are appropriate when a tail vise is hard to install. Is there another reason a wagon is better than a traditional tail?

I just installed the Veritas QR tail vise on my new bench and I really like it.

[Jim Koepke]

There are a few different types of vises for the tail end of a bench.

What kind of vise is it that you are considering changing to a leg vise?

Could it be used as your tail vise?

Someone posted pictures the other day with a wedge driven wagon vise. It has me thinking I can have a wagon vise and a tail vise without them interfering with each other.

jtk

[Sean Hughto]

A real tail vise allows holding boards vertically (and very securely at that) without any bars inthe way as opposed to a wagon vise that only holds stuff laying on your bench. A tail vice is much more versatile. Mine:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2182/2302933097_a85907b508_z.jpg?zz=1

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Sean

That is a beautiful vice (and bench). I would have liked one, however it would not have suited my shop, as the space I have for a bench is limited. The advantage of the wagon vise is that it takes up less room behind the bench. That allowed me to extend my bench top by 6-8".

Incidentally, you certainly can clamp boards vertically in a BC wagon vise - as long as they go into the slot length-ways - as the screw is offset.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/OhSoclose_html_m66fa0015.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Sean Hughto]

Do you really use it that way, Derek? I would think that holding something like an 8 inch wide drawer side by it's edges wouldn't really be secure for ripping dovetails, for example? Plus, how wide is that slot? Could it hold an 8/4 plank? I don't have a wagon vise, and don't mean to denigrate them in any event, but just had never heard of or imagined that they would be optimal for holding boards in the way you describe. Learn something new everyday in ww'ing!

[David Weaver]

A real tail vise allows holding boards vertically (and very securely at that) without any bars inthe way as opposed to a wagon vise that only holds stuff laying on your bench. A tail vice is much more versatile. Mine:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2182/2302933097_a85907b508_z.jpg?zz=1

My next bench will be exactly like that, except with a short skirt on the front. I covet a tail vise for toolmaking.

[Russell Sansom]

I was inspired to build a tail vise by the writings of James Krenov. I've worked with it for so long that I just can't bring myself to change styles. After 15 years I took it apart and replaced the worn runners. The construction of a traditional tail vise is a pretty rich puzzle. Really, a puzzle. And they need the occasional couple hours to re-true. Keeping the faces parallel and mar-free is a bit of a challenge, but having built the vise in the first place it is mine to understand and to keep up. When the faces are, indeed, parallel they grip quite well.

I don't think all this maintenance and bother is for everybody. I also think a state-of-the-art metallic sub structure as sold by LN or LV probably circumvents most of the problems with an all-wood vise. We are truly blessed with these thoughtful and high-integretity alternatives.

The wagon vise is, obviously, far easier to build. But in making musical instruments I use my tail vise a good deal to hold small parts. For example, in roughing out and then finishing a guitar bridge of rosewood I pretty much use the vise from start to finish. There just isn't much of an alternative short of a huge metal vise fitted with high-quality wooden jaws. This is actually an outstanding "second operation" vise if one can avoid using it for metal work, thus contaminating the operating theater with metal chips that can get into the wood work.

This is such a hard discussion. A bench is just such an investment, it's not very practical to try out one style then discard it for a second ( speculative ) style. I'm finding myself completely satisfied with my traditional vise.
Good luck in your search.

[Derek Cohen]

Do you really use it that way, Derek? I would think that holding something like an 8 inch wide drawer side by it's edges wouldn't really be secure for ripping dovetails, for example? Plus, how wide is that slot? Could it hold an 8/4 plank? I don't have a wagon vise, and don't mean to denigrate them in any event, but just had never heard of or imagined that they would be optimal for holding boards in the way you describe. Learn something new everyday in ww'ing!

Do I really use it that way for dovetails, Sean? No, of course not. The work piece would be to high above the bench and sawing into it would be an exercise in vibration. That is why Moxon invented the dovetail vise. However, should I wish to clamp a board low that was about 2 1/2" - 3" deep and 12" wide, well I could. In the same breath, I do not see myself using a traditional end vise, such as yours, for sawing dovetails. It is simply too low for comfort (assuming your bench is at a similar height to mine, which is 32"). Tenons? I saw them at my leg vise, but I could indeed saw them in the wagon vise. Most of my stretchers are under 2 1/2" -3" wide.

Additional note: I just looked up the specs of the Benchcrafted tailvise: "The vise, when installed for its maximum capacity and using a 5" long dog block, is capable of handling an 11-3/4" wide board".

Here is the offset I mentioned earlier ...

http://benchcrafted.com/Graphics/Vises/Vises_2012/dog_block.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Sean Hughto]

In the same breath, I do not see myself using a traditional end vise, such as yours, for sawing dovetails. It is simply too low for comfort (assuming your bench is at a similar height to mine, which is 32").

I routinely saw dovetails in my tail vise. Here's a video:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chevy_chase_hughtos/3496155520/in/set-72157607001006126
and here's a pic of my latest project in progress - all the dts you see in this drawer box were sawn in my tail vise with no discomfort fwiw:
Cheers!
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8133/8712846200_35915d70ec_z.jpg

[Chris Griggs]

You make cool stuff Sean. Where are you putting all these interesting (and I mean interesting in a good way) tables you are making?


BTW...I hate all of you....all you've all done is make it harder to decide what type of tail vise to replace my broken one with...

[Sean Hughto]

Thank you, Chris. I definitely try to make cool stuff - don't we all?

This will be a vanity - like for a woman to sit at to do her hair and makeup. Its top will be around four feet long and 16" deep. It's designed to be pushed against a wall, and will have a large (22 x 36 range) mirror mounted in the middle of the top. The piece is designed to fit a specific space in a family member's home.

[Derek Cohen]

I routinely saw dovetails in my tail vise. ...

Of course you can Sean, you're only 4'2" tall and so it suits you this way. You know I am just teasing :)

I used to do the same as you, sawing in a face vise at about the same height as your tail vise. It worked well and I was happy enough ... until I built a Moxon vise.

Clearly it is a case of "different strokes ..". I really am not arguing with your preference - just pointing out that it is just that.

Anyway, your piece is intriguing. I have seen you use carved legs before - or is this the same set but with the box added?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Sean Hughto]

I have an adequate Moxon vise:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5069/5608136319_ca9b88c9ac_z.jpg

My vanity in progress is an all new piece.

[Mike Holbrook]

I am wondering how those who have opted for traditional tail vises feel about the newer Veritas Quick-Release Sliding Tail Vise? I bought one but I have not built the top for my bench yet. I have had some issues with my hands since last spring and I have been stuck in project study mode. The pictures and instructions that come with this vise depict a thinner/smaller piece of wood for clamping objects. Sean's vise moves a much larger piece of wood. I don't see any reason I could not make a wider vise jaw for my vise. In the case of the LV vise dogs, hold downs, surface clamps...in the side vs top of the vise may be used to clamp objects to the front surface of the workbench which may negate the need for a large vise capacity?

[Erik Christensen]

Sean - I have a BC wagon vise and you are right - 8/4 won't fit but 6/4 will and everything I have edge clamped in it has not moved... at all - both the moving wagon block and bench face are covered with suede and the clamping power of the BC hardware is noticeably greater than anything I have ever used. What I like about their design is that 100% of the top is one rigid, flat, monolithic unit - you can happily hammer away anywhere on the bench without concern about what is underneath

[David Weaver]

What do you do with a wagon vise when you want to plane something a little longer than the bench?

[Chris Griggs]

What do you do with a wagon vise when you want to plane something a little longer than the bench?

Redesign your project :) ...or alternatively, build a longer bench to put your wagon vise on...

[David Weaver]

Yeah, I'm thinking there's no harm in a bench 8 feet long with a tail or an end vise on it. A wagon isn't in my future, but I would like a bench a lot longer than the effective 6 1/2 feet I can get out of mine right now.

[Chris Griggs]

Yeah, I'm thinking there's no harm in a bench 8 feet long with a tail or an end vise on it. A wagon isn't in my future, but I would like a bench a lot longer than the effective 6 1/2 feet I can get out of mine right now.

Yeah I'm in the same place. I love my bench BUT its only like 60" long. I actually really like wagon vises (what little I've used them and conceptually anyway), but for my bench some type of QR bench vise is the way to go as it adds a good foot of length to my bench. Since I broke my QR cast iron vise that I was using for an end vise I've considered building a wagon vise or getting that inset vise from LV, but I really don't want to loose any length so I'll probably just get some QR bench vise hardware.

If/when I ever make an 8' to 10' bench though, a wagon vise will definitely be a consideration.

[Derek Cohen]

Repeating what I have previously written ..

I opted for the BC tail vise because it effectively extended the length of bench I could build. It is a compact vise, and the shop space it saves behind the bench can go into the length of the bench itself. I was able to build a 6' 6" bench, where I had been planning a 6' 0" with a LV twin screw.

I am very happy with the length of this bench. Would I prefer an 8-footer? So far I have not needed anything this length. There has not been anything that I could not do on this bench. Bear in mind that my previous bench was a little under 5' !

Regards from Perth

Derek