Recommend a mostly power tool guy some chisels

[Matt Meiser]

My MHG chisels have to go as they've proven to just be too crumbly at the edges. Reading, it's not just me. Luckily I have a large set because there are always some awaiting major sharpening.

I wanted to spend in the $200 range. What I've found:

Ashley Isles 6-piece set from The Best Things for about $160. I've read they can be soft at the factory edge but after grinding back they are good. As a plus, it includes every size I think I want--1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1". Assuming they are actually available as TFWW has listed them out of stock for several weeks.
Stanley Sweetheart. I read these can take some work to set up. I came REAL close to buying the full set for an awesome price ($170) today. Also includes every size I want and then some which maybe I could sell and recoup some cost.
Lie Nielsen 5pc set pushing the budget pretty hard at $275. The included small one is 3/16 instead if the 1/8 I think I want, and it doesn't have the 1". Probably wont miss anything. Plus, I think I can expect them to come ready for a light honing and use.
LN O1 which are really pushing the budget at $295. Didn't find a ton on these. No 1/8 or 1" available if I decided I wanted them.
Pfiel cabinet maker set. Held one at Woodcraft the other day and I don't like the feel of the handles. Off the table.


The LV pm-v11s are just way too far past my budget to consider however nice they may be. Same with the Blue Spruce. I also don't want to go with another inexpensive set like the Narex or Woodriver that I may outgrow and end up wanting to replace down the road.

My uses are occasionally hand cut dovetails, occasional mortises, and various cleanup operations after machine operations. And that could change over time as well.

When I was talking to my wife today she encouraged me to buy the LNs over the Stanley for the ready-to-use and buy-American/small business factor over saving $100 and buying from a big conglomerate.

If it makes a difference, I'm a Worksharp user.

[Tyler A Anderson]

Sounds like you already answered your question, get the LN to keep your wife happy!

[Matt Meiser]

Maybe. Just want to make sure my facts and assumptions are right, I think.

[Mike Henderson]

The LV chisels are about the same price as the LNs and the LV hold an edge longer. I'd spend the few dollars more and get the LVs. A good set of chisels will last you a lifetime.

Mike

[Tyler Keniston]

Lie Nielsens would be sweet.

Another set that could possibly be on your list are Two Cherries.
I also know people who say Marples really aren't bad at all.

Tk

[Matt Meiser]

The LV chisels are about the same price as the LNs and the LV hold an edge longer. I'd spend the few dollars more and get the LVs. A good set of chisels will last you a lifetime.

Mike

You mean he O1s? Tell more about them. Mostly I found stuff on the PM-V11s.

[Mike Henderson]

You mean he O1s? Tell more about them. Mostly I found stuff on the PM-V11s.
No, I mean the PM-V11s. As far as I can tell, the LV O1s are no better than any other O1s.

But only buy the PM-V11s for the sizes you use the most. For me, that's 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2. Everything else can be less expensive chisels because I don't use them very much.

Mike

[Casey Gooding]

I've owned both the LN and the Ashley Iles. Both are fine chisels and would serve you well. That said, you will never regret buying the Lie Nielsen chisels.

[Mel Fulks]

Those pm -v11 are the way to go .They are MAGICAL! Friend of mine was using a set in his side yard,went in house for a moment ,when he came back they had DISAPPEARD!.....Any body know how you get them to REappear?

[Jim R Edwards]

I almost bought the pfeil set this weekend but at the last second decided not to. I have a set of the original Stanley 750's sizes 1/4-1 1/4 and they work perfectly. I don't know what I would gain by buying a set of premium chisels other than less sharpening. I don't think I paid more than three dollars per chisel and they perform every task I need.

[Matt Meiser]

Except the pmv11s are double the desired proposed and 25% more than the stretch budget.

[Matt Radtke]

Except the pmv11s are double the desired proposed and 25% more than the stretch budget.

You're approaching the problem incorrectly. A set is false economy--you might never use the 3/4" for example. Buy three PM-V11s in the sizes you use the most. For most of us, that means the smaller chisels: 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2. I snagged the 3/8 to confirm they really are that awesome and will be adding the other two soon-ish.

If you're tuning mortises with them that have been hogged another way, I'd want something bigger like a 1 1/2 or a 2. Neither LN nor LV offer that chisel.

If you're chopping mortises by hand, you probably want a dedicated mortise chisel or two in the sizes you actually use. Needing a full set of mortise chisels is even rarer than needing a set of bench chisels.

[Jim Koepke]

My MHG chisels have to go as they've proven to just be too crumbly at the edges.

These kinds of chisels make good beater chisels for when you do not want to take good chisels out that might want to become MAGICAL by growing legs. They are also good when a friend or neighbor wants to borrow a chisel.

jtk

[Bryan Mills]

Did you own any Narex's? What was it that you disliked?

[Harlan Barnhart]

Buy one or two of either LV or LN and see if you like them. Then buy one or two more. I use the small sizes most, say less than 3/4", then skip up to something wider like 1 1/4".

[Jeff Bartley]

I haven't tried the PMV-11 chisels but I have a small smoother with a PMV-11 blade......it's an incredible steel! If I were in your shoes (and undecided about which to buy) I'd buy one of each LN, LV (PMV-11), and either a LN O1 or a LV O1. I'd try each for a few weeks and let the results lead the way to a final choice. All of these have excellent resale value so you'll only be out a couple bucks when all is said and done.
Of course that's advice from someone who's making do with a set of blue Marples!! My method of dealing with those: I've taken to sharpening them at the end of every working day so they're fresh the next morning. And even then I sometimes sharpen mid-day!

[David Weaver]

I would buy the ashley iles chisels, and sharpen them as they need it. that's just me. They'll sharpen on anything and sharpen easily and they have a nice thinner profile.

I've had LN chisels, but I didn't hold on to them because I couldn't justify the price, I just don't see it when I look at them. I still prefer plain good quality white II japanese chisels or vintage western chisels.

[Chris Griggs]

If your wife is encouraging you to spend more then spend more.

General considerations...

If you want/need a lot of different sizes/ size options go for the AI's. Lots of bang for buck there. Good 01 steel, narrow side bevel. I've only tried one once, but by all accounts they are great chisels.

If your fine with a 5 piece set, are willing to spend a bit more as your wife reccoemends and want a set of chisels that have exceptional comfort and balance, then either the LN or the LV 01s are a great option. If you want A2 and/or socket get the LNs. If you want 01, flip a coin. If you specifically don't want a socket only chisel then get the LVs.

Other things to consider if deciding between LN and LV. The LV set is 1/4" - 1", the LN set is 1/8"-3/4". I have the LV 01s. I absolutely love them. I've used the LN A2 in my friends shop, I absolutely love them too. I prefer the hybrid tang/socket design of the LV. I prefer the sizes (1/8-3/4) in the LNs.

So I guess the first thing to do is make a firm decision on what you want to spend. Once you do that you may have a clear choice to go with the AI. If you decide to spend a bit more, consider the little difference I've mentioned above and then pull the trigger on one or the other.

[Matt Meiser]

These kinds of chisels make good beater chisels for when you do not want to take good chisels out that might want to become MAGICAL by growing legs. They are also good when a friend or neighbor wants to borrow a chisel.

I've actual already got a set of the blue Irwin/marbles for that purpose already. They might actually be better chisels.


Did you own any Narex's? What was it that you disliked?

No, but I'm disinclined to buy another "cheap" set again. Maybe that's not a fair assessment of these.

[David Weaver]

The narex are probably OK. The new marples chisels SHOULD be better than they are, they have no excuse to not do a blind copy of the older marples chisels, but that doesn't seem to stop them from trying to make chisels with fatter sides and softer steel.

If I was a betting man, I'd bet LN's 01 chisels would maybe be slightly harder than AIs, at least in terms of uniformity. But I like the style of the AI cabinetmaker's chisels better, they cost half as much, and resale only matters if you sell, otherwise the difference in cost is money lost.

The conondrum is that I've seen plenty of vintage chisels that easily stand up to new O1 chisels, and they can be had inexpensively. So when you look at the LN's, you think "why again am I paying $300 for O1 chisels", and the alternative, A2, is something that's not really well suited to chisels, especially when it's hard. It stands up no better than O1 but sharpens less easily.

Now, if there were just sets of the good vintage chisels put together out there for $10-$20 each like you can find them for if you look around.....

(I'm going to guess that not offering discounts for cash like places used to has a lot to do with credit card company lobbying dollars.....)

[Jeff Duncan]

I'm going to add one other though that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread.....how the chisels 'feel' in your hand. I have a set of the LN skewed chisels and while they are very nicely made, I find them, (well I guess the handles really), to be small for my hands. Yeah yeah I know if I were so inclined I could make new handles, but I like keeping things original for the most part. My bench chisels are a set of Freuds' I bought close to 20 years ago or so, and still find them a nice chisel to use.....not sure who made them? But they have a nice sized handle and the steel holds an edge. I'm looking into buying a set of the Henry Taylor Pattern makers style chisels myself right now. They seem to be pretty reasonably priced with the larger handles I prefer.

I also recently purchased a set of Buck Brothers cranked neck chisels and they will be going back. I knew they would not be top quality but figured something along the lines of the Marples blue handled chisels....I was wrong! These are the cheapest made chisels I've ever come across! They have the same rough grind on all the faces of the chisel. And when I say rough, I mean rougher than any cheap a$$ box store chisel I've come across! Out of a set of 5 there's one flat enough to make work. The worst ones have close 1/16" of bow along the length of the blade:eek: I am so saddened that this American company has lowered it's standards to the degree that their product is essentially useless to any craftsman:(


Oh and FWIW I'm another "mostly power tool" guy who just happens to 'find' ways to use my hand tools whenever possible:D

good luck,
JeffD

[Sam Takeuchi]

Irwin/Marples are weird gizmos. My blue handled Irwin (Sheffield made, not recent ones made in PRC) I bought as my first set years ago were long considered piece of crap, but recently they have been very good performers, so much so I like them ok now. It didn't hold edge worth a crap at all, but these days, it does that fine, sharpens up very nicely. I would even say I grab Irwin more than Narex (Narex was disappointment to me to be honest...I wanted to like it, but never did). But Ashley Iles MKII would be my first recommendation if you have to balance the budget and performance. It would be ideal if you can have the best, but it's ok to find something that fits your budget. Just that get the best quality item in your budget, that's all. For that, that's my recommendation.

[Mel Fulks]

Yeah,I'd send them back with a strongly worded letter . But.... If you buy three more sets of them you might find they are remarkably consistent !

[David Weaver]

Irwin/Marples are weird gizmos. My blue handled Irwin (Sheffield made, not recent ones made in PRC) I bought as my first set years ago were long considered piece of crap, but recently they have been very good performers, so much so I like them ok now. It didn't hold edge worth a crap at all, but these days, it does that fine, sharpens up very nicely. I would even say I grab Irwin more than Narex (Narex was disappoint to me to be honest...). But Ashley Iles MKII would be my first recommendation if you have to balance the budget and performance. It would be ideal if you can have the best, but it's ok to find something that fits your budget. Just that get the best quality item in your budget, that's all. For that, that's my recommendation.

Caveat that marples chisels found with english origin are fine. They may be inconsistent, but they're fine and they're ground well for cabinetmaking work, and are good especially if you grasp the handle of the tool when you work to a line.

[Danny Thompson]

Buy one or two of either LV or LN and see if you like them. Then buy one or two more. I use the small sizes most, say less than 3/4", then skip up to something wider like 1 1/4".

Buying a few that fit your needs is a great way to maximize bang for the buck. I've got the LN 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 1" plus an AI 2". I could easily get by with the 1/4, 3/4 & 2". The A2 is quite hard, so if I were buying today, I'd try the LV PMV-11s.

[Randy Clements]

I have a 3-piece set of Craftsman chisels in 1/2, 3/4, and 1" and they are pretty much garbage. For 20 bucks for the whole set, I guess... I have ordered a 1/4" and 3/8" Round Back Ashley Isles dovetail chisels. I will let you guys know how they are. About $25 each...

[Jim Koepke]

It looks like this is coming down to the brass tacks and gnats eyebrows.

Are there any woodworking supply stores in your area carrying some of the brands you are thinking of acquiring? Being able to hold a tool to see how it feels in your hands for me is a big part of the deal when buying new tools.

Other considerations are preferences like the style of tool. For chisels it works down to a few features with what is on the market.

Hopefully the following will help you to narrow your field.

- socket or tang (My choice for socket chisels has been expressed many times. The main reason is it is easy for me to make new handles to fit my hands and way of working. Chisels that are a joy to hold tend to get used more. The quality between tang and socket chisels is pretty much the same, it is a personal choice.)

- How much of a bevel is desired on the edge. Will your use be mostly paring dovetails or do you need something for more general use. Thin chisels are nice for paring, but a heavier style may be in order if you will be pounding out a lot of mortises.

- What is your sharpening set up? Some steels work better with some sharpening methods. No matter how good the steel, it will need sharpening.

- Do you use all of your chisels or mostly just a few sizes? Only a few of my chisels, ranging in size from 3/32" - 2", go unused for any length of time. This is mostly because of duplicate sizes. If you use all the sizes, then you will want a full set. If your work tends toward one or two sizes, then buying just those sizes may be a better choice.

jtk

[Adam Cruea]

I'll be an outlier here and recommend the Stanley chisels. I wouldn't suggest going with the set of 8 as it's just overkill, but instead get the set of 4 plus a 1/8". You're looking at less than $150 for a decent set of chisels at that point.

I've used my dad's Lie-Nielsen socket chisels, and honestly, I felt the Stanley chisels were just as balanced. By no means am I an expert, just a general observation here. The Stanley chisels can also take a decent beating (except for the 3/4 I had to send back to Stanley for snapping below the socket weld) and they will take a wonderful edge (sharpen them and they'll easily cut paper without effort, shave an arm). My only complaint about them was that they had some hefty machine marks when I got them, but that was 3 years ago (or maybe 2), so maybe that's changed. Oh, and they're covered with a layer of lacquer that you might want to remove.

Anyway, I have the Stanley set of 8 and I don't regret buying it one bit. They're mid-priced chisels; go into it expecting an LN chisel, you'll be disappointed. Go into them expecting a Lowe's FatMax, you'll be shocked.

[Mel Fulks]

Comments on such things as how comfortable a chisel is to hold are a perfectly valid consideration,and remind me how different modern commerce is from earlier times. Many of the old chisels were sold without handles.Lower priced chisels now are often sold in plastic cases tougher than the steel in the tools .Try going into one of the BORGS and opening one of those packages trying out the plastic handles ,testing the edges on the pc of maple you have brought for that purpose .And then just handing the whole mess to a cashier and leaving with the comment that they are of low quality.If you just buy them because ' this is the 21st century so they must be good' ,you will not only be disappointed but will have to drive back to the store and stand in a line to return them.A very slow moving line.When you get your turn and say "they don't hold an edge " , the clerk will sigh in exasperation and say he uses his to open paint ,and dig up dandelions and " hasn't had any trouble with mine ". When tools were sold primarily to those who needed them to make a living it was quite different. I contend that selling low grade stuff to those guys was dangerous,tools were expensive. There are ,of course, more extant company records, than those of individuals.But there are enough of both to prove that people did not take being cheated lightly .I have a reference to a tool makeing company buying some iron by tonnage ,weighing it, and demanding adjustment for a five pound discrepancy. Yes ,it was hard for them to make good stuff. They did it anyway. We now have tools for the pro and a different bunch for the homeowner ,that is a largely a twentieth century innovation .

[Matt Meiser]

Are there any woodworking supply stores in your area carrying some of the brands you are thinking of acquiring? Being able to hold a tool to see how it feels in your hands for me is a big part of the deal when buying new tools.

And there's a part of the problem. My Woodcraft really doesn't stock much. A few of the individual Pfiels, some cheap chisels, and the Woodriver butt chisels. There's really nowhere else to look for quality hand tools. The closest LV (London) is a 3 hour drive plus border crossing time which can be significant. The place I found the Stanleys, that;s all they had. There was an open set which I got to handle extensively but not try. They definitely could have bigger handles but I don't think they are too small, and that's a "problem" I could fix in the future. The same would be true of the LN's in that case. The Pfiel I held I felt like the handle was cheap and lightweight which I associate with soft, and I don't like the faceted design.

Available stock may come into play here too. Lee Valley availability dates change every time I look. TFWW is the same story on the AI and I haven't heard back from The Best Things. The place I saw the Stanley's had 2 sets on Sunday so those are easy to get. I assume since LN doesn't have a stock issue because its not listed on their site. I'd like to get them soon which might narrow things to LN or Stanley.

I don't have a 1/8 now and I've gotten by without. I've occasionally wanted something small and have used a utility knife. Maybe that's good enough. Then a 1/4, 3/8, and 3/4 would probably be good for me, plus maybe a 1" in the future. I do use the larger ones from time to time. Right now I have 1/4 to 1 by 1/8 increments.

[Chris Griggs]

The closest LV (London) is a 3 hour drive plus border crossing time which can be significant. The place I found the Stanleys, that;s all they had.

If it helps I'd be happy to send you one of my LV 01 chisels. I don't use the 1" much so I don't mind lending it out (just promise not to back bevel it) PM me if your interested.

[Jim R Edwards]

im not all that crazy about the handles on the pfeils either but that can easily be fixed. For the price range you listed I think the pfeil is the best chisel you can buy. They were ranked right behind LN in a chisel test a few years ago. If that is unacceptable than shell out another 90 dollars and buy the LN/LV 01 chisels. After a couple weeks the sting of the price goes away.

[Randy Clements]

The Ashley Iles Round Back dovetail chisels arrived yesterday. They are extraordinary. So sharp, so nimble. Wouldn't want to really WHALLOP these, they are a bit more delicate, but I love the way they work for dovetails. They pare excellently. Can get right down into the corner as the edges are tapered down to the back. A steal at around 25 dollars each from Tools for Working Wood.

[Chris Griggs]

The Ashley Iles Round Back dovetail chisels arrived yesterday. They are extraordinary. So sharp, so nimble. Wouldn't want to really WHALLOP these, they are a bit more delicate, but I love the way they work for dovetails. They pare excellently. Can get right down into the corner as the edges are tapered down to the back. A steal at around 25 dollars each from Tools for Working Wood.

Thanks for the mini review. I've been thinking about getting the 1/16 and 1/8 to "round" out (haha, I'm punny) my LV chisel set. Can't beat that price, for sure.

[Stew Hagerty]

I actually have a full 10pc set of the Narex chisels, from 1/4" to 2", plus a pair of 1/2" skew chisels, and a full set of 6 mortise chisels from 1/8" to 1/2". I have found them to be quite good. I may have to sharpen them a little more often than some of the more expensive sets but its not like I have to hone them every time I use them either. Now, I do have large hands, so that may be a factor as they have relatively large handles. But for me, they just fit nice. The skew chisels come in real handy for cleaning up dovetails too. As for the mortise chisels, they are excellent. They're made similar to the old "pig sticker" style English chisels with oval handles and tapered blades. All that said, I also have heard good things about the Stanley Sweethearts. I've seen them listed as "Best Value" before in one of the wqoodworking magazines. Personally, I don't think you could go wrong with either set.

[glenn bradley]

I agree that buying as required will net you better chisels. I have a set of old Marples that are my daily users; no complaints. I also have a 3/4" paring, a set of butts, and a scattering of extra thin, long, crooked, etc. The Marples do the bulk of the rough work. The specific chisel I want comes out for that specific task.

[Bruce Haugen]

If you want a whole set and don't want to spend a whole lot, I'd also recommend Hirsch/Two Cherries. I've had a set for four years or so and am quite satisfied with them. They take a good edge, sharpen easily and also take a good whacking. I don't know what else you want in a chisel. My good chisels are Bergs.

[Matt Meiser]

Hmm...I had also emailed a couple local friends with the AI, LN, and PM-V11 chisels. Turns out the guy with the AI ones got rid of them and bought the Stanleys which he likes (even) more. The guy with the LV said the only thing he'd change is to buy them in O1 instead of A2. And of course the guy with the PM-V11's loves them because apparently no one dislikes them :))

So another question: is sharpening either them PMV11 or O1 steel with a Worksharp going to be any kind of issue?

[Mike Henderson]

So another question: is sharpening either them PMV11 or O1 steel with a Worksharp going to be any kind of issue?
I have to sharpen chisels a lot because I teach a hand cut dovetail class and the students use my chisels (if students bring their own, I wind up having to sharpen them).

I use a Worksharp 3000 to put a primary bevel of 25 degrees on all of the chisels - Carbon steel, LN A2, LV PM-V11, and Japanese chisels. Then I go to my water stones and put a secondary bevel of 35 degrees on the chisels. Very quick. I can touch up the chisels several times before I have to go back and re-establish the primary bevel.

I use 120 grit on the WorkSharp to establish the primary bevel.

Mike

[Glenn Ancona]

Matt,

Try one or two LN in your favorite sizes and see how they feel !?!
I had the same opinion regarding buying USA using the small guy etc.
After using the LN they just didn't feel GREAT in my hand, so I sent them back under their 30 day return policy.
Of all the tools we have, Ive only sent the LN set and a festool jig saw back - with any pricey tool purchase you should be delighted using it or move to something else.
I kept the LN 10 chisel roll as its the nicest I've ever come across and ours move from shop to site daily.

In the same roll a older set of marples and new LV pmvs ( at least the ones not back ordered ) which one gets used depends on the task at hand

[Matt Meiser]

Ok, you guys twisted my arm...ordered the PM-V11 set. Really not much of a savings to leave 1 off and definitely expensive to buy them all separate on multiple orders. All presuming the ship date doesn't slip which may result in re-evaluation.

I ordered their canvas roll too for the rare times when I do take the out of the shop.