Yet another sharpening question

[Bob Glenn]

I am considering a first purchase of a water stone. Looking at the Norton combination 4000/8000 or maybe just the 8000, and now considering the new offering at L/N as discussed here in the last few days.

I have a Tormek grinder that I use for shaping the primary bevel. I have then been going silicone carbide paper on glass. I usually go down to 1500 grit and call it sharp, but recently have been using Semichrome paste on garnet paper to finish.

To pick up from the 1500 S/C paper, which stone should I buy? There doesn't seem to be a standard grit measurement system. Any thoughts or comments welcome. Bob

[David Weaver]

IT depends on what it actually is. Just buy one of the finish stones to pick up after 15k grit paper, it'll be more consistent than simichrome and a little nicer to use.

If you need to get an intermediate stone after that, then you can.

I'd probably go for the 10k that they have if I was dead set on being an LN customer. It should be abrasive dense and whatever is in it grit wise is probably just south of two microns (meaning it won't be so super fine that it can't follow anything other than another fine stone).

[Steve Friedman]

No stone - you should be able to go from 1500 Wet / Dry paper straight to a strop. Doesn't the Tormek come with a leather wheel on one side for that purpose?

I don' have a Tormek, but always thought it was intended to be an all-in-one solution that eliminated the need for anything else. I know lots of people go to stones after the Tormek and I'm sure there is a good reason for it, but I thought the Tornek was supposed to eliminate the need for anything else. Just wondering.

Steve

[Jim Koepke]

Do you plan on getting away from using silicone carbide paper?

Most of my sharpening is done using 4,000 & 8,000 stones. If a blade goes a little too long, then a 1,000 stone comes into play. My stones do include a combo 4,000/8,000 though it is seldom used as individual stones are my preference.


There doesn't seem to be a standard grit measurement system.

Here is a chart with a scary long URL (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=stone%20belt%20paper%20and%20compound%20grit%20c omparison&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CE4QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ramanon.com%2Fforum%2Fattachm ent.php%3Fattachmentid%3D17949%26d%3D1266937653&ei=BC0xUb26KYeuqgG_y4Bw&usg=AFQjCNHkY5faY1wvSJP3c5C9uk7v1D3BTw&sig2=Z0Jzg8HPkTi8LBGEJjyaog&bvm=bv.43148975,d.aWM&cad=rja)

Hopefully it works, if not Google > stone belt paper and compound grit comparison < the chart linked here is at ramanon.com as a .pdf.

jtk

[Bob Glenn]

It's been my experience that the blade is no where near ready for the leather strop off the grinding wheel on the Tormek. I've done it, but it took a long time to get anywhere near a polished surface with the strop and diamond paste. I'm happy with what I'm doing, just trying to explore the next level if there is one.

[Sam Stephens]

No stone - you should be able to go from 1500 Wet / Dry paper straight to a strop. Doesn't the Tormek come with a leather wheel on one side for that purpose?

I don' have a Tormek, but always thought it was intended to be an all-in-one solution that eliminated the need for anything else. I know lots of people go to stones after the Tormek and I'm sure there is a good reason for it, but I thought the Tornek was supposed to eliminate the need for anything else. Just wondering.

Steve

that's my thinking as well. i go from a 1200 diamond stone to charged strop. more stones would be too much work imo

[David Weaver]

The right stone would be *less* work than the loaded strop.

[Steve Friedman]

The right stone would be *less* work than the loaded strop.

David,

I haven't used a strop on a flat blade since getting my Sigma #13000 stone, but I use that stone after the #6000, not after sandpaper. The OP's question was what to do coming off 1500 wet / dry sandpaper. Would you go straight from sandpaper to the #13000 stone? You have much more experience and knowledge on this than I do, but I find that the relative flatness of sandpaper on glass or granite does not match the flatness of my stones. Therefore, when switching from one media to another, I need to step down to a lower grit for the transition. Because of that, I stopped using sandpaper any finer than 280 sometimes 400) and transition from that to my Cerax #320. After that it's all Sigma stones.

Steve

[Don Dorn]

I used to use Cosman's method but have since opted for the Sellers for awhile now and very happy with it. Yes, it's three stones, but each one only gets a few strokes free hand and then a strop. I think the idea of returning to a 220 is so that you can get your initial burr fairly quickly - the rest just polish that convex edge. Wasn't sure how it would work, but it certainly does. Finishing on the strop gives near surgical sharpness. Even though I have a sharpening table at the end of the bench, it still takes longer to get the stuff out, wet the stones, dab dry the stones, recharge the strop and put everything away than it does to sharpen an iron or chisel.

[Chris Griggs]

Get two stones a 1k'ish something (diamond, water, whatever) and an 8k or higher waterstone. Doesn't matter all that much what you go with. Nortons are fine, but I think for the money there are better options. The Ohishis 1k to 10k would probably be fine for just about everything though you may want something in between eventuall for working up backs.

Strops/stuff with compound can do great things, but if you have dusty shop they get contaminated too easily (in my shop anyway), and start giving inconsistent results. Clean stones (whatever kind) will give you pretty much the same results every time.

[Archie England]

I am considering a first purchase of a water stone. Looking at the Norton combination 4000/8000 or maybe just the 8000, and now considering the new offering at L/N as discussed here in the last few days.

I have a Tormek grinder that I use for shaping the primary bevel. I have then been going silicone carbide paper on glass. I usually go down to 1500 grit and call it sharp, but recently have been using Semichrome paste on garnet paper to finish.

To pick up from the 1500 S/C paper, which stone should I buy? There doesn't seem to be a standard grit measurement system. Any thoughts or comments welcome. Bob

Starting with the Tormek is how I entered the "really get it sharp" endeavor. Between stropping, oil stones, sandpaper, or waterstones--as the next step--I prefer waterstones! I replaced a starter Norton set with Sigma Power ceramics and some Chosera stones. The results are superb. Though the Norton 4/8k combo stone is a great stone, it equals roughly a 2500/5000 stone in edge unless you let it dry out a bit in finishing. But, it's a fine stone. After the Tormek, I use a Chosera 3000, then choose either a 6/10/13 Sigma for finishing, depending on what I'm planing. If there are no ragged edges to repair, I now skip the Tormek by using a few lower grit stones that speedily sharpen and hone. The 13000 Sigma may be overkill, but boy it sure works a superior final edge.

[David Weaver]

David,

I haven't used a strop on a flat blade since getting my Sigma #13000 stone, but I use that stone after the #6000, not after sandpaper. The OP's question was what to do coming off 1500 wet / dry sandpaper. Would you go straight from sandpaper to the #13000 stone? You have much more experience and knowledge on this than I do, but I find that the relative flatness of sandpaper on glass or granite does not match the flatness of my stones. Therefore, when switching from one media to another, I need to step down to a lower grit for the transition. Because of that, I stopped using sandpaper any finer than 280 sometimes 400) and transition from that to my Cerax #320. After that it's all Sigma stones.

Steve

Yes, straight to the 13k. Lift the handle a little if needed to polish the edge, but without making an intentionally large microbevel if you want to be able to use the paper to refresh the edge again next time. Something like 10 strokes pulled, and that's it. I don't really ever use medium stones unless I'm flattening the back of something or unless I'm using them as a final stone.