Built Out Window Casing

[George Bokros]

Wife wanted built out window casing on the dining room window. Let me explain what I mean by that. She would like the casing to be 1 1/2" out away from the wall. I laminated some oak (3/4 X 1 1/2 with 3/4" poplar in between to get the 2 1/4" width). The sandwich is 3/4 oak, 3/4 poplar, 3/4 oak to get the 2 1/4". The faces of the oak will be along the outside and inside edges of the casing. This sandwich is not perfectly straight, if i put a level as a straight edge against the 1 1/2" side the center is 1/8" away from the level in the middle.

Here is my idea to salvage the work and material. Clamp a piece of angle iron to the laminated piece to get it straight then attach with drywall screws into the king studs at the sides and the header on the top and the sill plate on the bottom of the window then remove the angle iron and apply the casing. My question is am I asking for future trouble doing this. I will not attach the laminated pieces tot he window jambs.

Thoughts, comments, questions?

Thanks

George

[Jeff Duncan]

I would not have done it that way, I would have simply taken 3 pieces of oak 45'd the edges and made a c channel. Would have been much more stable and pretty darn strong.

As you've already done it my advice is to take it to a jointer and get it flat again. Not sure if you'll have more problems down the road with the sandwhich technique and dissimilar woods, but also can't see jambing iron in there to fix it?

good luck,
Jeffd

[Jerry Miner]

George---

I spent many years as a finish carpenter and have installed miles of trim. I think you are over-thinking this. How long is the piece you're checking for straight? (1/8" in eight feet is very different from 1/8" in two feet!) Can you push it flat against the wall with your hands? If so, just screw it on---if the screws can hold it today, they will likely hold it forever.

[George Bokros]

It is not curved away from the wall it curved inward toward the window. It is 1/8" in the middle of a five foot run. I cannot bend it straight to get it plumb.

I can't flatten it with the jointer and planner because the thickness / width will then be narrower than the casing is wide.

George

[Sam Murdoch]

Do I understand correctly? You built up your casing by adding a full width glue up to the back? Why would you not have simply run pieces the correct depth and maybe 1/2" to 3/4" thick to the outside edges of the casing? In effect you would have a U shaped casing as viewed from the back but easy to maintain an even reveal or flushness to the casing by simply attaching the cheek build up pieces to the outside edges as needed.

[George Bokros]

Do I understand correctly? You built up your casing by adding a full width glue up to the back? Why would you not have simply run pieces the correct depth and maybe 1/2" to 3/4" thick to the outside edges of the casing? In effect you would have a U shaped casing as viewed from the back but easy to maintain an even reveal or flushness to the casing by simply attaching the cheek build up pieces to the outside edges as needed.

The build up is 1 1/2" thick. Combine that with the 1/2" thick at the outer edge of the casing and I would need nails 3 1/2' long to engage 1" into the studs. This being said I do not think this approach would work.

[Richard Wolf]

Run the piece over the jointer to get it straight, then glue a piece of oak to the other side and rip it down to your 2 1/4". I don't think you will be able to straighten out a 2 1/4" thick laminated piece with a clamp and angle iron.

[George Bokros]

Run the piece over the jointer to get it straight, then glue a piece of oak to the other side and rip it down to your 2 1/4". I don't think you will be able to straighten out a 2 1/4" thick laminated piece with a clamp and angle iron.

I thought about doing that but I thought since I only have a six foot bed on my jointer I would not be successful. I just checked an I think I can do it. Before I add the additional piece I will also run it through the planner then add the additional material them run it again throught he planer to get the 2 1/4" I need. I plan to buy an additional piece of oak and resaw it to half thickness to laminate on to get the thickness I need.

Richard thanks for making me rethink the jointer and planner option.

George

[Sam Murdoch]

The build up is 1 1/2" thick. Combine that with the 1/2" thick at the outer edge of the casing and I would need nails 3 1/2' long to engage 1" into the studs. This being said I do not think this approach would work.


Rereading this thread, I see that Jeff and I are proposing the same solution. To address your concern about needing extra long nails here is one idea. By building up the casing with only oak pieces on the outside edges you are left with a gap in the center behind the casing. Attach some 1-1/2" blocks or strips directly to the wall nailed or screwed into the studs - wherever you have good nailing - in the empty space between your casing build ups. You then can attach your c shaped casing to your nailing blocks with regular 1-1/4" trim nails.

The nailing blocks can be of any kind of stock including some plywood and you don't need to make them the full width of the space bewteen the casing cheek pieces. If the cheek pieces on the casing are only 1/2" wide that leaves you room for a 1" block with some space on each side for tweaking your corner joints.

[Jeff Duncan]

Rereading this thread, I see that Jeff and I are proposing the same solution. To address your concern about needing extra long nails here is one idea. By building up the casing with only oak pieces on the outside edges you are left with a gap in the center behind the casing. Attach some 1-1/2" blocks or strips directly to the wall nailed or screwed into the studs - wherever you have good nailing - in the empty space between your casing build ups. You then can attach your c shaped casing to your nailing blocks with regular 1-1/4" trim nails.

The nailing blocks can be of any kind of stock including some plywood and you don't need to make them the full width of the space bewteen the casing cheek pieces. If the cheek pieces on the casing are only 1/2" wide that leaves you room for a 1" block with some space on each side for tweaking your corner joints.

BINGO! That's exactly the right way to do it. I think it's too late for the OP unless he starts over, but that is the best way I can think of to get it done.

JeffD

[George Bokros]

I would have done this but I am reusing the existing casing which I removed. I didn't want to try to miter the added strips and mess up the already existing miters that fit the window perfectly. It probably wouldn't have been as difficult as I thought at first but that was my thinking at the time I started so I went down this other road. On the next window I will try this since the wife wants me to do this on all the windows.

Thanks for all the input.

George

[Sam Murdoch]

OK George I'm slowly getting the full picture - kind'a dense I can be. One other approach then for your remaining windows.

You are basically making extension jambs. Are the window jambs also Oak or are they painted? In any event your existing casings are in good shape and the miters fit well so you don't want to rework them. I would approach this job by first attaching some 1x 1-1/2" strips with square ends to the existing jambs. The square ends will not show when the casing is applied, they will just read as the normal butt joint of the window jamb. These can be with a reveal or not depending on your preference. Allowing an 1/8" reveal makes the job more forgiving but the placement of your casing can't change and that must be considered.

2nd, make up make up 1X strips that will be attached to the outside edge of the casings. These will need to be mitered but can be done independently of the casing. Cut to fit and then apply flush to the outside of the casing with short screws or nails.

You can also apply the nail blocks I described in the earlier post but by attaching the first 1X to the jamb you already have solid nailing on that edge. Minimal mitering this way just some accurate pre cuts with your miter saw. Hope this idea helps make the rest of the work less onerous.

[George Bokros]

Thanks Sam. That is the approach I was thinking about for the other windows. I would cut all of the pieces to length then stain and varnish then attache. The casing is oak and the windows are pine but they are also stained and varnished. This should be easy to do.

George

[johnny means]

I don't know the specific parameters of your project, do obviously my solution may not even be possible. But given the task of making the casing on on existing window thicker, my first choice would have been to leave the existing casing in place and just add another layer to the outside of the casing. A simple price of 3/4 x 1 1/2 oak nailed around the outer perimeter would have given the needed depth while increasing the width of the casing for a more balanced look. The extra bead would have also added more architectural detail. 3"casing also had a more custom look to it.

[George Bokros]

I am making the casing thicker from the wall not widening it. To do what I am doing requires the casing to be removed and stock added to the back between the casing and the wall.

George

[Peter Quinn]

I am having trouble understanding why you would want casing that is 1 1/2" thick but only 2 1/4" wide. There are entire book written about the golden mean, proper architectural proportion, the dramatic effect of a moulding rising from the thin side (jamb side int eh case of a casing) to the thicker outer back band, and the ability of such an approach to focus attention on the window which it frames. So I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why you want to create a laminated 2X3 for a casing. The how is easy enough to work out, but why would you have that much projection on such a narrow molding? And what place does the poplar have in all of this? Do you have a picture of this?

[Sam Murdoch]

I think the intended effect is to have the windows appear deeper - not the casing appear thicker. With window treatments such as curtains you won't see the thicker casings but you will notice that the window seem deeper. Don't know that George is also being asked by his wife to extend the sills. And besides which, the only Golden Mean in this equation is what did his wife mean. Of course, I could be all wrong :D.

As for the poplar piece - George was building up the entire back of the casing with 1-1/2" thick stock from made from 3 rips of 1-1/2" X 3/4" wide stock. The middle piece was poplar to save on the expense of oak in this multiple piece glue up.

[George Bokros]

You are exactly correct Sam. One advantage on my study window was I was able to install colonial shutters without having them mount to the wall and over the casing. I was able to to inside mounting of them.

George