Not fine furniture, but...

[Roy Lindberry]

My latest project was a gate for my driveway. It's been on the list, and I was hoping to wait until better weather in the late Spring, but it had gotten so bad, something needed to be done right away. The old gate was probably 20 years old (my grandpa built it back when he first bought the property) and it started falling apart.

As a carpenter, I'm ashamed that it got so bad. The rope was a temporary measure while I built the new gate, since the old cable had rusted through and snapped off, causing the weight of the gate to collapse.

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So, here is my new gate with a new design. My wife loves it.

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Everything is mortise and tenon and bridle joints. All joints are pegged with 3/4" dowels. You can probably tell from the photos, but it is just lumberyard tight knot cedar 2x6 and 2x4. I tried to make it not only sturdier than the old design, but also lighter weight. I also gave it multiple coats of BLO. This is a mostly neanderthal project, as I used a cordless drill to bore the holes for the pegs and the table saw to rip the long boards.

And here is a shot of the bridle joint on which I attempted to use Paul Seller's poor man's router with little success. But I got it done. Any comments, questions, and criticisms are welcome.


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[Gary Hodgin]

Nice gate.

We have a small privacy fence with 2 gates in the backyard. I've replaced one of the gates once and the other twice. They look good for a while then start sagging. They're pretty heavy. The fence is made from 8 ft wide 6 ft tall sections of treated pine (Lowe's as I recall). The gates are 4 ft sections and I can't seem to get hinges to hold very long.

[Jim Matthews]

I like the way the top spar is tapered, that's clever.

Isn't it nifty that the Sellers' methods get things done?
I couldn't have conceived some of the things that are easy with a chisel and marking knife.

It's as if we were forced to do things the way a power router and chopsaw work.

Concerning the gate - will you put a wheel on them (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/projects/149197d1261311781-wheel-kit-panel-gate-gate-wheel.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/95587-wheel-kit-panel-gate.html&h=694&w=1230&sz=231&tbnid=TiylmojuSfUrrM:&tbnh=69&tbnw=122&zoom=1&usg=__l92JcZ643otxW2wdh4Rby-_R_T4=&docid=Tqn_T6EpOLkpdM&sa=X&ei=rs0sUZybDqjM0wGisoHQCw&ved=0CGoQ9QEwBg&dur=163)?
Most gates this large will rack in a season or two.

I suppose a discarded skateboard would be ideal, they flex.

[Stanley Covington]

Roy

Nicely done!

You realize it will sag and rack before long though right? Such is the eventual fate of every cantilevered structure.

I have never built a gate like yours, but I did design/build two long timber bridges for the Utah State Parks & Rec when I was a student. It was a good education in how to make exposed wooden structures that last, and I learned a lot from the Structural Engineering Professors and Park Managers who had hundreds of exposed wooden structures to maintain.

What kind of glue did you use?

BLO provides zero protection from water damage. Was that choice intentional?

The exposed end grain at the brace's bridle joint is going to suck water like crazy and hold it for a long time promoting rot. Of course, if/when that joint fails the gate will collapse. You might want to consider capping that thing with bit of galvanized metal flashing. Easily done and excellent protection.

Typically, a galvanized metal rod or stainless steel cable is installed to prevent/adjust sag similar to the temporary rope you used to replace the rusted cable. Have you decided this is unnecessary, or do you plan to install one in the future?

Beautiful gate!

Stan

[Roy Lindberry]

I like the way the top spar is tapered, that's clever.

Isn't it nifty that the Sellers' methods get things done?
I couldn't have conceived some of the things that are easy with a chisel and marking knife.

It's as if we were forced to do things the way a power router and chopsaw work.

Concerning the gate - will you put a wheel on them (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/projects/149197d1261311781-wheel-kit-panel-gate-gate-wheel.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/95587-wheel-kit-panel-gate.html&h=694&w=1230&sz=231&tbnid=TiylmojuSfUrrM:&tbnh=69&tbnw=122&zoom=1&usg=__l92JcZ643otxW2wdh4Rby-_R_T4=&docid=Tqn_T6EpOLkpdM&sa=X&ei=rs0sUZybDqjM0wGisoHQCw&ved=0CGoQ9QEwBg&dur=163)?
Most gates this large will rack in a season or two.

I suppose a discarded skateboard would be ideal, they flex.

I don't plan to put any wheels on - the driveway isn't level enough for that.

I will put a cable up where the old one was, most likely. I tried to design the gate to resist racking, hence the angle brace being pulled in and the smaller lumber on the non structural parts. But when it starts to sag, I have everything for the cable.

[Roy Lindberry]

Roy

Nicely done!

You realize it will sag and rack before long though right? Such is the eventual fate of every cantilevered structure.

To be honest, I didn't know that it was a certainty. I was hoping to minimize that with the design and construction. But I'm ready and willing to put a cable up if/when it dos rack. I appreciate the heads up.


I have never built a gate like yours, but I did design/build two long timber bridges for the Utah State Parks & Rec when I was a student. It was a good education in how to make exposed wooden structures that last, and I learned a lot from the Structural Engineering Professors and Park Managers who had hundreds of exposed wooden structures to maintain.

That sounds like a great experience.


What kind of glue did you use?

I used Titebond III, because of its water resistance.


BLO provides zero protection from water damage. Was that choice intentional?

It was intentional, but I wasn't aware that it provides zero protection. In my experience, BLO has been very good at keeping water out of shovel handles, hammer handles and the like. So far, the water is beading up on the gate and not soaking it.


The exposed end grain at the brace's bridle joint is going to suck water like crazy and hold it for a long time promoting rot. Of course, if/when that joint fails the gate will collapse. You might want to consider capping that thing with bit of galvanized metal flashing. Easily done and excellent protection.

Yeah, that was actually my one big worry about this gate, because there is a bit of exposed end grain. There was on the other gate as well, and it lasted nearly 20 years, so we'll see how it holds up. My plan was to soak the end grain with BLO (which I did), but your comment above has me thinking that other measures might be necessary. I'll give it some thought.

That's the great thing about being a carpenter, though - if this one doesn't work, I can try it again with a hopefully better design.


Typically, a galvanized metal rod or stainless steel cable is installed to prevent/adjust sag similar to the temporary rope you used to replace the rusted cable. Have you decided this is unnecessary, or do you plan to install one in the future?

Beautiful gate!

Stan

I was waiting to see if it is necessary - sort of like an experiment. I'm prepared to put one up if I need to. As of right now, the new gate is about 1/5 the weight of the old one, but that may not last.

Thanks for all of the suggestions and info. I deeply appreciate it.

[Stanley Covington]

Roy:

I think Titebond II is a good choice.

There have been a lot of tests about the various finishes by professionals that do nothing but test finishes. They don't deal in myths, but hard facts backed up by hard evidence.

BLO is hopeless. There was a time when it was all that was available, so that is what people used. The next step up from BLO is Danish Oil like WATCO, basically BLO+varnish. Nice for interior low-wear applications, but still not very weather resistant.

The tung-oil based varnishes are the next step up. Tung oil revolutionized the coatings industry way back when. Not very resistant to UVL.

Modern varnish uses different types of synthetic resins mixed with other stuff. Pretty good protection until UVL or stress cracks it and water penetrates. Epiphanes is the best I have used. Kinda pricey for your application.

Then there are the epoxy and urethane coatings that provide much better wear resistance. Better, but still UVL and cracking problems. Even more expensive. There are some commercial high-build spray-on epoxy finishes typically used on concrete or stucco structures that are superior in every way, but they are expensive and difficult to apply, and depending on where you live, local VOC restrictions make the stuff impossible to buy.

The very best exterior weather protection (non-sbmerged) you or I can apply with a brush is top-quality latex paint. I know it sounds nuts, but latex paint is, quite simply, a coating of rubber that flexes with the expansion/contraction of wood. And when you add titanium dioxide (white) or other compounds to it, the UVL resistance increases dramatically. So while varnish, epoxy, urethane, etc are tough, and some of them are very pretty, few of them will continue to provide a watertight coating after the thousands of expansion/contraction cycles which exposed wood must endure. I once built a lab for Sherwin Williams and the QC tech dudes showed me the numbers. Not very abrasion resistant, but good enough for a house or a gate, IMO. Consumer Reports had an article on the best exterior latex paints available nowadays, and I was surprised that the most expensive products, including Sherwin Williams, was not at the top.

The key to making latex last (any finish for that matter) is to ensure proper adhesion by doing the proper prep, including a top-quality primer.

The galvanized (or better yet, stainless steel, copper, lead) cap/flashing I suggested is the surest way to protect end-grain. There is a lot of history behind this. A quick but temporary solution is apply some Titebond II to the endgrain and rub it into the fibers hard. Water will still get into the joint, but it will be less. A good soaking of copper arsenic into the end grain and joint will help too, if you can get your hands on any.

Good luck with your experiment!

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

I suppose a discarded skateboard would be ideal, they flex.

I love the skateboard idea! That would work pretty well on uneven ground too.

Stan

[Roy Lindberry]

Roy:

I think Titebond II is a good choice.

There have been a lot of tests about the various finishes by professionals that do nothing but test finishes. They don't deal in myths, but hard facts backed up by hard evidence.

BLO is hopeless. There was a time when it was all that was available, so that is what people used. The next step up from BLO is Danish Oil like WATCO, basically BLO+varnish. Nice for interior low-wear applications, but still not very weather resistant.

The tung-oil based varnishes are the next step up. Tung oil revolutionized the coatings industry way back when. Not very resistant to UVL.

Modern varnish uses different types of synthetic resins mixed with other stuff. Pretty good protection until UVL or stress cracks it and water penetrates. Epiphanes is the best I have used. Kinda pricey for your application.

Then there are the epoxy and urethane coatings that provide much better wear resistance. Better, but still UVL and cracking problems. Even more expensive. There are some commercial high-build spray-on epoxy finishes typically used on concrete or stucco structures that are superior in every way, but they are expensive and difficult to apply, and depending on where you live, local VOC restrictions make the stuff impossible to buy.

The very best exterior weather protection (non-sbmerged) you or I can apply with a brush is top-quality latex paint. I know it sounds nuts, but latex paint is, quite simply, a coating of rubber that flexes with the expansion/contraction of wood. And when you add titanium dioxide (white) or other compounds to it, the UVL resistance increases dramatically. So while varnish, epoxy, urethane, etc are tough, and some of them are very pretty, few of them will continue to provide a watertight coating after the thousands of expansion/contraction cycles which exposed wood must endure. I once built a lab for Sherwin Williams and the QC tech dudes showed me the numbers. Not very abrasion resistant, but good enough for a house or a gate, IMO. Consumer Reports had an article on the best exterior latex paints available nowadays, and I was surprised that the most expensive products, including Sherwin Williams, was not at the top.

The key to making latex last (any finish for that matter) is to ensure proper adhesion by doing the proper prep, including a top-quality primer.

The galvanized (or better yet, stainless steel, copper, lead) cap/flashing I suggested is the surest way to protect end-grain. There is a lot of history behind this. A quick but temporary solution is apply some Titebond II to the endgrain and rub it into the fibers hard. Water will still get into the joint, but it will be less. A good soaking of copper arsenic into the end grain and joint will help too, if you can get your hands on any.

Good luck with your experiment!

Stan

Wow! Thanks for all of this information. I may have some decisions ahead of me. I also might talk to my wife about paint.

[Prashun Patel]

In fact if ever there is an appropriate place for careful construction, it's here. Nice, appropriate, and appreciated!!!

[Roy Lindberry]

I know this is a touchy subject for some, but I forgot to mention another experiment when I built the gate. I used Paul Sellers' method of chopping the mortices with my bench chisel rather than my mortise chisels - with tremendous success! The walls were straight and pretty clean, and I didn't have much trouble with the chisel trying to twist. Again, I was working with cedar, so results may vary with harder woods. I'll have to wait for another project to explore further.

Just thought you all might like to know the results from a very average neanderthal. I found the bench chisels very suitable for my moritses in this project. Even when I've used my mortise chisels on other things, I've really liked the method he uses for chopping.

[Jim Matthews]

I think the revelation that the shorter bevel is the one that "steers" the cut is born out in one of his cutaway videos.

It's pretty clear that turning the chisel around after getting halfway is the key element I didn't manage with heavier mortising chisels.
I must admit that your results surpass mine, so far.

Still, it's nice to get so much utility out of one chisel set, isn't it?

[Kees Heiden]

Nothing to add to this thread full of great info. Just want to say I love your driveway. It must be fun coming home like that.

And the gate is looking great. Isn't cedar quite resistant to decay in itself, without any protecting paint?