Best Cyclone G0441 vs CV1800 vs Oneida V3000

[Jim German]

I'm looking to pull the trigger on a new cyclone dust collector. I know this is a much discussed topic, but I'm trying to decide between these three:
Grizzly G0441 for $1,550
Clearvue CV1800 with Nano for $1,825
Oneida V3000 for $1,675

Without a test by an independent third part using a laser particle counter I don't believe you can come to any meaningful conclusions on the difference in filtration efficiency between the CV and Oneida. Both are pretty clearly better than the grizzly though.

All three should provide plenty of airflow for my small basement shop, so that doesn't concern me.

What I am wondering is how they compare on noise beyond just the specs (83-85db on the Grizz, 78 on the CV, and 75 on the Oneida) , and also about the build quality of them.

[Ole Anderson]

I would throw the Oneida 3 hp SDG in the mix at $1780+shipping, for an extra $294, you pick up almost 3 inches of suction over the V-3000 at 1000 cfm. That is a big deal. I haven't laid my hands on the others, but the build quality of the Oneida is top notch, and is made in the USA to boot. Baldor motors, heavy steel construction, yada yada...

Here is a video of mine regarding noise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X8qwMqm3Ek

[Michael W. Clark]

I don't have either, but work with cyclones and DC in my day job. I personally favor steel construction, but that doesn't mean the other is defficient. I do like the filter area provided with the CV and I like the fact that the Grizzly has an upper cylindrical section (body). Not too sure about the V-shaped body as it means your outlet pipe hangs down in the cone, shortens the cone and puts it closer the dust discharge.

Forgive me for asking, but not sure how you got to this conclusion:
Without a test by an independent third part using a laser particle counter I don't believe you can come to any meaningful conclusions on the difference in filtration efficiency between the CV and Oneida. Both are pretty clearly better than the grizzly though.

Without any data to back it up, I would venture the CV and Grizz have more efficient cyclones than the V series due to more residence time in the cyclone. The SDG Oneida that Ole mentions above has a more similar design to the Grizz and CV cyclones, and is considered a step up (at least according to the price:)). You don't need a particle counter, just need to measure what gets caught versus what got put in. The difference is what got through. Its a simple test, manufacturers don't want to do it because this efficiency depends on a lot of variables that probably would not be duplicated.

Mike

[Jim O'Dell]

I think you aren't going to get a clear cut answer. Just weigh the pros and cons of each offering: price, weight, material, real world users (there are many many threads here at the Creek alone on the different cyclones you have mentioned. It was clear (pun intended) that the Clear Vue offered the best bang for the buck....for me. I've had it for 7 years now, narry a hiccup. Many people boohoo the construction as plastic, but keep in mind that it is the same material that Police riot shields are made of, and it won't rust. There are pluses for the units made of steel also. Look at them all, make a list, and make your own decision. Jim.

[Jim German]

Thanks, for the video Ole, with the door to the DC cabinet closed, is it quiet enough in your shop that you don't wear hearing protection? I looked at the Oneida SDG, but I think its really out of my price range. Considering my shop is only 15' x 30' I think even the V3000 should be more than sufficient.



Forgive me for asking, but not sure how you got to this conclusion:
Without a test by an independent third part using a laser particle counter I don't believe you can come to any meaningful conclusions on the difference in filtration efficiency between the CV and Oneida. Both are pretty clearly better than the grizzly though.


Years of experience as an engineer working for an air filter manufacturer, designing filters, and filter test equipment. Even when you follow a standarized test procedure, (like the ASHRAE 52.2 test that gives the MERV rating you might see) there are still a ton of variables that can influence the results. In addition the standard aerosol used to test filters is KCl, which may (or may not) behave quite differently than wood dust.

[Steve Milito]

Does Wynn offer a Nano replacement filter for the Griz?

[Michael W. Clark]

Years of experience as an engineer working for an air filter manufacturer, designing filters, and filter test equipment. Even when you follow a standarized test procedure, (like the ASHRAE 52.2 test that gives the MERV rating you might see) there are still a ton of variables that can influence the results. In addition the standard aerosol used to test filters is KCl, which may (or may not) behave quite differently than wood dust.

Absolutely Jim. Then you, like myself, appreciate the need for the extra cloth area provided on the CV unit. I can assure you the dust would behave differently in the cyclone than the aerosol. Even different species of dust (maple vs. poplar) will behave differently. I'm not sure what your experience is with cyclone design, but they do not behave like filters and do not have a MERV rating. There is no standard for cyclone efficiency and performance. Cyclone efficiency can only be stated for the specific application and with a known dust density and aerodynamic particle size distribution. We design high efficiency cyclones and filters for industrial and severe service applications with guaranteed performance. The only way to guarantee performance is through emperical testing and knowing how the different variables affect the fractional efficiency curve.

If you have two cyclones to evaluate and they are similar in construction, the pressure drop at flow and the overall size of the unit will be good indicators of which one is more efficient. High DP and larger size equals more efficiency, all else being equal. The CV is likely more efficient than the Grizz as I think that cyclone is a little larger. I would put both of them ahead of the V series due to its shape and height of the units. The main thing you need are good filters and lots of filter area. I think anything over 4:1 A/C ratio is not a good situation without proper filter pressure drop monitoring.

Mike

[Jeff Monson]

I would throw the Oneida 3 hp SDG in the mix at $1780+shipping, for an extra $294, you pick up almost 3 inches of suction over the V-3000 at 1000 cfm. That is a big deal. I haven't laid my hands on the others, but the build quality of the Oneida is top notch, and is made in the USA to boot. Baldor motors, heavy steel construction, yada yada...

Here is a video of mine regarding noise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X8qwMqm3Ek

Nice video Ole, you did a great job on reducing the noise level.

[Ole Anderson]

Thanks, for the video Ole, with the door to the DC cabinet closed, is it quiet enough in your shop that you don't wear hearing protection? I looked at the Oneida SDG, but I think its really out of my price range. Considering my shop is only 15' x 30' I think even the V3000 should be more than sufficient.

Even with the door open hearing protection isn't needed. My shop is about 100 sf smaller than yours. It isn't the size of the shop that dictates your system, it is the tools you are collecting dust from, the design of your duct system and your wallet. I was in the same position as you, I didn't want to spend the extra money for the next better cyclone, in my case a 3 hp SDG instead of a 2 hp SDG. While I am happy with 2 hp, I now know the performance of the 3 hp unit is so much better I am kicking myself for not going with the better unit. Of course we can say that of all of our tools.

[Don Jeansonne]

I struggled with my cyclone selection also. I ended up with the Oneida V3000. Oneida is a great company to deal with. They evaluated my shop sizing, tool dust collection needs, and tool layout. They were straight forward with me and steered my to the V3000 over the SDG. I would have gone with the SDG if they would have hesitated on any performance issue in my particular situation. Oneida seems to always be rated high in every article or review that I have seen. They are an "American Made" company and their quality is outstanding. I didn't want to do all the assembly required on the CV system. I have several Grizzly tools and am satisfied with them but their tech support on dust collection just didn't impress me. Also Grizzly was only marginally cheaper. Anyhow, that is what I did. As for noise, it is quitter than I expected. You can carry on a conversation with it running but I do shut it down when I have periods that I don't need collection.

[Jim German]

I ended up going with the Clearvue, can't say I have a good reason for going for it over the Onedia though. I did like the clear plastic cyclone though.

[Rick Markham]

7I love my Clearvue, I can't complain a bit about it, it does a stellar job, the construction is top notch. It's set up for S&D piping, and it's 5HP. Service is stellar too. I don't have a single complaint about mine, I'm glad I chose what I did, and I won't be looking back :)

[Brian Brightwell]

I can second what Rick M. just said. I bought the CVMax,1935CFM, because of the 16 inch steel impeller. I installed mine on the other side of the shop wall and am using no filters, I vent to the outdoors. Inside I don't even have to turn up the radio in order to here Rush Limbaugh.
I am just now getting all my machines hooked up.

[Jim Andrew]

I'm scratching my head over Brian B's post. My 2hp cyclone works a lot better right after I blow out the filter, and Brian is exhausting outside with no filter. I'm thinking my 2hp unit would do a LOT better exhausting outside with no filter, but use it because I heat and cool my shop. In spring and fall maybe I could exhaust directly outside, and although I've never done it, I'm sure the performance would be improved. BTW, my impeller is 14". I'm thinking that Brian's dog could be at risk.

[David Kumm]

Even a 16' BI impeller can only so much static pressure so venting outside has little effect on the cfm if pulling through 6" pipe or less. The CV max can handle 8" pipe with filters so venting outside might impact cfm as much as it does with a smaller impeller. Does quiet things down though. Dave

[Steve Peterson]

Another vote for the Clearvue. It is the original design by Bill Pentz for best separation of wood dust.

I don't really trust the Oneida V series. It seems like the shape is a compromize to reduce cost. The incoming air spends less time in the cyclone so more dust will end up in the filters. The Gorrilla series would be a much better choice, although it bumps up the cost by a few hundred dollars.

Many of the Grizzly options are really extreme in cost cutting. At $1550, it makes sense to step up to either the CV or the Oneida Gorrilla.

Steve

[Danny Thompson]

I vent to the outdoors. . . . Rush Limbaugh . . .

. . . :eek:

[Brian Brightwell]

Jim have you seen my dog?

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/bebrightwell/DSC_0770.jpg

[Wade Lippman]

Many of the Grizzly options are really extreme in cost cutting. Steve

That is horribly unfair. I have three Grizzly tools now and have had others in the past. They have all been nice machines, and great values. I have a Grizzly 3hp cyclone now and find it to be better quality than the Oneida and JDS I have had in the past.

I am not taking a position which is the best; just that the Grizzly does not involve any more extreme cost cutting than the others.