MAN vs MEC for shaper cutters?

[James Baker SD]

I know MAN means hand feeding is allowed, MEC means only mechanical feeding. But what is the fundamental design difference between the two? I have used a MEC profile knife cutter head with hand feeding, but how dangerous was this? Obviously I took shallow cuts and never tried a climb cut, but is there a realistically safe way to use a MEC cutter without power feeding?

James

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, the two important differences are chip limitation and projection.

MAN cutters have chip limitation and low projection so they exhibit much less tendency to kickback.

The improvement in safety is significant enough to be legistated in the EU.

Traditionally all cutters were MEC, which may be part of the reason for the reputation of shapers as dangerous machines.

I use MEC cutters on my shaper, however always with a feeder, which in the EU isn't allowed as a shaper is not a MEC machine, a moulder is.

James, I really like my knife cutter head, it's so cost effective it makes the feeder a cost effective solution, not to mention improving surface finish and safety.

By the way, unless you own a Euro jointer, your jointer isn't MAN rated either due to the knife projection, and carbide jointer heads are even more dangerous................Rod.

[Mike Heidrick]

What we call a shaper in the US is a spindle moulder in the EU.

[Rod Sheridan]

What we call a shaper in the US is a spindle moulder in the EU.

Thanks Mike, in my post I wasn't indicating that a spindle moulder can be used with MEC cutters in the EU, only machines that cannot be hand fed such as moulders, planers, gang rips etc.

Regards, Rod.

[Peter Quinn]

I've used cutters labeled MEC (and those that should be) for a hand feed on occasion. When things are going well you wouldn't notice the difference between MEC and MAN. It's when things go wrong that MEC is a problem. Say a board cracks and a chunk breaks off, or a molding knife grabs a chunk and pulls it loose, with no depth limiters you find out why shapers have a reputation for being dangerous. Things can get kicked back or sucked in much more easily. So if you take the risk, think carefully about where your hands will be, how you might react when things get loose, plan the whole shaping sequence in a dry run. And stay away from hand shaping small parts. I know the EU wont allow using a spindle moulded with MEC cutters, but frankly the danger is greatly reduced with a feeder. The EU wont allow cheese that has been made the same way for 600 years with no ill effects either, so take their example with a dose of your own judgement. I don't go out of my way to buy or use the old 3 wing type cutters, but I haven't thrown mine out yet either.

[Mel Fulks]

I agree with Peter (can't miss this chance!) I remember years ago when I worked for a company that had a "cutting department" that precut most of the jobs,any of us who made such things as round and elliptical sash always insisted on getting our own material .Otherwise it would have defects that would make it fly to pieces while being hand fed. A good example of the operator understanding he must take responsibility for his safety.

[James Baker SD]

Rod:

Are all "American" style jointers not MAN if they have the porkchop style blade guards? My jointer is same style as yours, Euro combo machine with the euro style blade cover. Using that MEC profile head, I did have one piece taken away from me when I cut away the entire edge and my old shaper's poor fence did not hold its alignment allowing the workpiece to rotate into the cutter. Fortunately I had been warned to stand out of the line of fire, and the piece flew harmlessly across the shop. Those days are behind me through, I have now also have the tilting saw shaper combo with power feeder. I am trying to figure out what to do with the old 3/4" cutter heads that do not fit the new machine. (still to be set up, no dust yet)

James


Hi, the two important differences are chip limitation and projection.

MAN cutters have chip limitation and low projection so they exhibit much less tendency to kickback.

The improvement in safety is significant enough to be legistated in the EU.

Traditionally all cutters were MEC, which may be part of the reason for the reputation of shapers as dangerous machines.

I use MEC cutters on my shaper, however always with a feeder, which in the EU isn't allowed as a shaper is not a MEC machine, a moulder is.

James, I really like my knife cutter head, it's so cost effective it makes the feeder a cost effective solution, not to mention improving surface finish and safety.

By the way, unless you own a Euro jointer, your jointer isn't MAN rated either due to the knife projection, and carbide jointer heads are even more dangerous................Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi James, I can't say "all North American" jointers, however I can state that I've never seen an NA jointer with a MAN head.

The projection is limited to 1.1mm if I remember correctly, and most jointer heads I've seen have that much projection or more.

The MAN rating isn't guarding, it's based upon measurement and testing to determine the reduction in kickback energy, so the pork chop guard wouldn't affect the MAN rating. You may not be able to use a pork chop guard in the EU, however that's a guarding issue, which is considered as a seperate issue.......Rod.