Electric Floor Heat

[Chris Padilla]

Okay, so what experience does The Crew here have with those embedded mats that can go under tile/stone or laminate or even rugs.

Googling the topic shows a lot of firms...too many for my brain to deal with.

We are going to redo our master bath and Da Boss wants tile floors but she wants "warm for the tootsies" floor so I need some kind of warmer under them.

Way back when, I looked at this place: http://www.warmlyyours.com/en-US/

Found this one: http://www.thermosoft.com/ and http://www.nuheat.com/home.html and http://www.suntouch.com/warmwire/ and ad nauseum....

Seems most everyone is under a grand for 80 ft^2.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

:)

[Randy Rizzo]

I have Nuheat. In the kitchen and in the bath. We don't run the kitchen as high as the bath, just enough so it takes the ice cold tile to a more comfortable level. The mats come with a tag with an ohm readout. You need to check before installation, after the mat is down and again after the the tile is set. Same for the temp sensor. We've had it down for almost 10 years and in that time we've had one controller go tango uniform. You need to make sure every square inch that you want heated has a mat under it. I've got one area, under a cabinet toe kick, that we neglected to get a mat large enough. Figuring that a mat not more than a couple of inches away would heat the surrounding tile, not so. So we have a cold spot right where you'd be standing against the cabinet. Installation was not that difficult. You just need to plan the layout so you can lay the thinset and roll the mat into it and push it down without walking on the mat before its set. In the kitchen we used three mats to ease the installation. When we set the tile we used a 1/4" piece of plywood to put down on the mats as a work surface. As I recall the controllers were rated at 15amps, so the total amperage of the combined mats should be about 80% of that. With 80 sqft you should be ok with one controller. Depending on the number of mats you have you'll have a lot of wires coming into the J box. The wires were shielded with a metallic braided cover, and then there's the temp sensor, plus your hot feed from your c/b panel. I used a 4x4 with a side car for 3 mats and it was mighty crowded. If I was doing it again I think a 4x4 with an extension ring to make the wiring easier would be the way to go. A ground fault C/B was required for the install

[Jim Matthews]

I thought about the same retrofit.

I would only consider it if the entire bath were to be redone, as it involves taking out the existing tile.
We put in an Envi heater (http://www.eheat.com/) instead, to supplement heat in our master bathroom.

It was an easy install, and is really effective.
We doubled up on floor mats which is ok.

The total cost? $140!

[Chris Padilla]

We are doing a full gut...expanding the shower...improving wall insulation...all new cabinets/vanity/sink/plumbing/fixtures, etc. About the only thing not changing is the toilet but it is only 10 years old and just fine. Everthing else is from the mid 70s...GONE!! :)

I'm happy to hear the NuHeat is still going strong after 10 years. That is good to hear!

[Joe Angrisani]

Chris...

We put radiant heat in our master bath. I went with the roll product, not the mats. We couldn't be happier. I can dig up the details if you'd like, but I think I got what they called a "40 square foot roll". 500 or 600 watts. About $180 including the wall unit and a second thermosensor that I buried as backup. Installation couldn't have been easier.

We're very happy. The timer brings it on 30 minutes before our alarm clock, and shuts it off about 10 minutes after our alarm clock chimes. Brings the floor up to "tootsies warm", and keeps us from heating the whole house early just to get the bathroom warm.

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[Jim Falsetti]

Chris - we put the warmly yours mat in our new tiled entryway. Very, very pleased. It is worth the money. We will add it to our bathroom when it is retiled.

Jim

[Chris Padilla]

Chris...

We put radiant heat in our master bath. I went with the roll product, not the mats. We couldn't be happier. I can dig up the details if you'd like, but I think I got what they called a "40 square foot roll". 500 or 600 watts. About $180 including the wall unit and a second thermosensor that I buried as backup. Installation couldn't have been easier.

We're very happy. The timer brings it on 30 minutes before our alarm clock, and shuts it off about 10 minutes after our alarm clock chimes. Brings the floor up to "tootsies warm", and keeps us from heating the whole house early just to get the bathroom warm.

255061255062

Looks good, Joe! It almost looks like you went with an individual wire and strung it to fit your space. Do you recall who you went with?

[Chris Padilla]

Well, it is looking like more and more to simply find the best price...everyone's is about the same.

[Jim Matthews]

I'm considering two inexpensive retrofits, that don't involve electricity -

a radiant foil barrier and cork tiles. The surface won't be heated, but
it will have limited heat conduction. If you're completely retrofitting the bath,
you could also use a secondary hot water heater to perform this task.

I would do this with a heat exchanger, on a closed loop to preheat the floor.

We saved $275 on natural gas consumption by having a second tank (on a timer)
near the master bath. It could easily be refitted with a secondary
loop to heat the bath floor, although I can't say how long that would take.

The nice thing about the electric coil is the speed of installation, and heat transfer.

[Joe Angrisani]

Looks good, Joe! It almost looks like you went with an individual wire and strung it to fit your space. Do you recall who you went with?

Yep. As I said, I went with the "roll product". My pictures show a 40 square foot kit. Easier, I think, than dealing with the mesh-embedded products. I bought off eBay. The Seller was "warmingsystemsinc". Good to deal with in every way.

I sent you a PM with more details.

[Brian Elfert]

My brother just installed a few hundred square feet of electric tile warming of the style that is just a wire. He had to pour self leveling cement over the wires to protect them. It took an army of people to mix and pour the cement as it has a 10 minute working time. He is still working on his basement and I don't think he has powered up the floor yet.

[Joe Angrisani]

My brother just installed a few hundred square feet of electric tile warming of the style that is just a wire. He had to pour self leveling cement over the wires to protect them. It took an army of people to mix and pour the cement as it has a 10 minute working time. He is still working on his basement and I don't think he has powered up the floor yet.

Then he wasted his time. Or misused his helpers. ;)

The wire is taped to the floor with the most amazing, super-sticky-super-gummy tape I've ever seen (it sticks SECURELY to dusty Wonderboard for goodness sake). The wires are embedded in the same thinset layer that bonds the tile. You plop the thinset down, then use the smooth side of the trowel to carefully grade the thinset so it's even with the top of the wires. Then I back-buttered the tiles using the toothed side of the trowel and placed them as usual. All in the same batch of thinset and working solo. An "army of people" could certainly keep the tile setter supplied faster than he could lay them.

You could also stop after smooth-troweling, then apply the tiles by the regular method once it's dry, but I did not find that back-buttering took that much longer with the 12x24 tiles I used. But expensive self-leveling concrete (and yes, it's self-leveling concrete; cement is an ingredient, not a product) is a wasted step unless your Wonderboard or other sublayer is not already level.

There are instructions that give resistance values that you check as you go, but you'd have to be a gorilla on a mission to tear the heating wire. Instructions also say wait 30 days before powering up the floor element, BTW.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I've done basically exactly what Joe described in two bath renovations, now. The coil of wire, taped down in whatever shape I'd like. I love it, and am very glad we did it. I think the roll of cord is a better idea than the mats - much easier to fit it to your space.

Joe's idea of putting in a second T-stat as a backup is genius.

[Joe Angrisani]

....Joe's idea of putting in a second T-stat as a backup is genius.

Genius, yes. My idea, no. But thank you....

[Brian Elfert]

Then he wasted his time. Or misused his helpers. ;)


I'm sure he was just following the directions from the manufacturer. He installed this stuff on top of a level concrete floor. I'm pretty sure he didn't use any tape, but I don't recall exactly how the wire was fastened down.

Doesn't concrete technically need aggregate of some kind to be called concrete? This stuff was like mortar as it appeared to be just sand, cement, and water. Regardless of the name it was nothing like traditional concrete.

[Doug Swanson]

Joe I'm getting close to doing the same to our bathroom...what did you use to attach the wire to the wonderboard? Looks like some sort of tape? How far apart did you space the wires?

Thanks
Doug


Chris...

We put radiant heat in our master bath. I went with the roll product, not the mats. We couldn't be happier. I can dig up the details if you'd like, but I think I got what they called a "40 square foot roll". 500 or 600 watts. About $180 including the wall unit and a second thermosensor that I buried as backup. Installation couldn't have been easier.

We're very happy. The timer brings it on 30 minutes before our alarm clock, and shuts it off about 10 minutes after our alarm clock chimes. Brings the floor up to "tootsies warm", and keeps us from heating the whole house early just to get the bathroom warm.

255061255062

[Joe Angrisani]

Joe I'm getting close to doing the same to our bathroom...what did you use to attach the wire to the wonderboard? Looks like some sort of tape? How far apart did you space the wires?

I used the tape that comes with the kit. The stuff is SO STICKY that I could have used pieces half the size. It looks like HVAC foil tape, but it is not. It's paper-backed foil, but the adhesive side is more like a 1/32"-thick jelly. Crazy stuff. I've never seen tape that sticky before.

Per the instructions, the wires are 3" apart. I measured out square footage and that indicated I needed a 40 square foot kit. As you can see, it was perfect.