Recommendations for Next Tool

[Paul Shaffer]

Creekers,
I have the enviable problem of having to spend part of my yearly bonus on wood working. I am looking for ideas for useful tools to expand/simplify my hobby. I currently have a Craftsman Contractor table saw with a new arbor, outfeed tables, BenchDog cast iron router extension. I am actually quite happy with it and would only upgrade to a SawStop. I have a Reliant 6 inch jointer, 12 inch Delta lunchbox planer, 14" Powermatic bandsaw, delta bench top drill press, Craftsman 10" miter saw, a couple single speed routers and various hand tools. Dust collection is currently done with a shop-vac equipped with a oneida dust deputy. I am generally happy with this equipment except for maybe the planer, which snipes a lot and has limited capacity, but leaves a surface that is nearly finish ready. My shop is in a one-car garage that "theoretically" is supposed to be able to have the equipment moved out of the way and a car parked in it, to mobility and space efficiency is key. I am currently building cabinets for our kitchen remodel and then plan to move on to period reproduction furniture for our bedroom.

Budget is around $1000. What do you think would be most useful? I have thought about a new 15" grizzly planer or perhaps a new/used drum sander. What else should I consider that I haven't thought about? I know there will be as many answers as there are responses probably, but I am just looking for ideas from people with much more experience.

Thanks,
Paul

[Cary Falk]

I got a Grizzly 18/36 drum sander on CL. I use the snot out of it. I don't know if I would ever give it up. That being said, you will need a real dust collector to keep up with it. Myy CL is littered with 1.5 hp dust collectors. The HF one is well respected. If you can find a sander on CL that would be great. I have the Grizzly 15" planer with a spiral head. It is great from a noise perspective but is a little harder to tuck away in you small space. Also be aware that a stationary planer won't leave quite as good a finish as a lunch box.

[Karl Stowe]

I second the drum sander. I have a bunch of small figured walnut and the planer chunks the grain. The sander takes longer to get down to size but thats were a nice resaw on the bansaw helps.

[Don Jarvie]

Bigger jointer. The reliant is ok (I have one) but want at least an 8 inch or bigger. Second upgrade the planer. Rough wood is much cheaper and to mill it right you need bigger tools. Look on Clist for a planer. My Belsaw works well and can handle 12 inch boards.

instead of tools buy more clamps and other shop items.

[Mike Heidrick]

dust collector - real one with decent filter. BEFORE a drum sander.

[Dave Zellers]

You've got the basics, machine wise.

I'd think about really useful hand tools like a good shoulder plane, quality chisels, a good vise, etc.

Wouldn't take much to hit the $1000 mark.

If you already have planes and chisels, consider a means to sharpen them like a WorkSharp 3000.

[Bill Space]

Hi,

[edit] You do have a jointer...so I don't know the answer to the question!]]

I don't think you mention having a jointer...

A jointer can take the twist/bow out of wood before thickness planing it.

Maybe a jointer would be a worthwhile addition?

I have done some nice work (to my eyes) with a Craftsman contractor's table saw and a Craftsman 6" jointer...

Ready to retire I upgraded to a Grizzly 8" jointer and Grizzly 10" cabinet saw. The saw is still in the assembly stage as I just got it a couple days ago.

So seeing that you may not have a jointer, I say consider buying one. If you do have one, like my 6" Craftsman, the long bed 8" Grizzly is SO MY NICER than the short craftsman! Bed on the Craftsman is the same length as the fence on the Grizzly.

Just a though...buy something that you do not have if you are satisfied with what you have.

[Denny Rice]

Creekers,
I have the enviable problem of having to spend part of my yearly bonus on wood working. I am looking for ideas for useful tools to expand/simplify my hobby. I currently have a Craftsman Contractor table saw with a new arbor, outfeed tables, BenchDog cast iron router extension. I am actually quite happy with it and would only upgrade to a SawStop. I have a Reliant 6 inch jointer, 12 inch Delta lunchbox planer, 14" Powermatic bandsaw, delta bench top drill press, Craftsman 10" miter saw, a couple single speed routers and various hand tools. Dust collection is currently done with a shop-vac equipped with a oneida dust deputy. I am generally happy with this equipment except for maybe the planer, which snipes a lot and has limited capacity, but leaves a surface that is nearly finish ready. My shop is in a one-car garage that "theoretically" is supposed to be able to have the equipment moved out of the way and a car parked in it, to mobility and space efficiency is key. I am currently building cabinets for our kitchen remodel and then plan to move on to period reproduction furniture for our bedroom.

Budget is around $1000. What do you think would be most useful? I have thought about a new 15" grizzly planer or perhaps a new/used drum sander. What else should I consider that I haven't thought about? I know there will be as many answers as there are responses probably, but I am just looking for ideas from people with much more experience.

Thanks,
Paul

Get that router table off the saw and build or buy you a good router table! JMHO:)

[Bob Turkovich]

Creekers,
I have the enviable problem of having to spend part of my yearly bonus on wood working. I am looking for ideas for useful tools to expand/simplify my hobby. I currently have a Craftsman Contractor table saw with a new arbor, outfeed tables, BenchDog cast iron router extension. I am actually quite happy with it and would only upgrade to a SawStop. I have a Reliant 6 inch jointer, 12 inch Delta lunchbox planer, 14" Powermatic bandsaw, delta bench top drill press, Craftsman 10" miter saw, a couple single speed routers and various hand tools. Dust collection is currently done with a shop-vac equipped with a oneida dust deputy. I am generally happy with this equipment except for maybe the planer, which snipes a lot and has limited capacity, but leaves a surface that is nearly finish ready. My shop is in a one-car garage that "theoretically" is supposed to be able to have the equipment moved out of the way and a car parked in it, to mobility and space efficiency is key. I am currently building cabinets for our kitchen remodel and then plan to move on to period reproduction furniture for our bedroom.

Budget is around $1000. What do you think would be most useful? I have thought about a new 15" grizzly planer or perhaps a new/used drum sander. What else should I consider that I haven't thought about? I know there will be as many answers as there are responses probably, but I am just looking for ideas from people with much more experience.

Thanks,
Paul

Paul,

I started reading your post and thought, "Wow, who's been looking into my shop?" The only differences are Jet vs. Powermatic bandsaw, DeWalt vs. Delta miter saw, no jointer and basement vs. garage shop (oh, i don't have $1000 to spend:)). Here's what I would suggest (given you have limited shop size...)

1.) Table saw fence - you didn't say how old your saw is (mine is 20 years) but most of the Craftsman's have poor fences - I upgraded mine to a Delta T2 and saw a significant improvement in saw performance. There are other fence upgrade options but the T2 is still the least expensive option.

2.) Router table system - Sorry, Denny - I hate to disagree with a fellow RedWing fan but I think the Bench Dog table is a great piece if he's keeping the saw. I can't imagine what more you would want from a table. Besides the space benefit, the added mass of the cast iron table really helps to dampen table vibration. What I would add, however, is a router lift mechanism and a dedicated variable speed router motor. ( I added a Rockler FX lift and VS PC router motor last summer and have, so far, been happy.) However, if you decide to follow Denny's advice and you're in the Detroit area, send me a note and I'll take it off your hands as my son has an identical saw to mine that he inherited from his grandfather.

3.) Dust collection - while I'm satisfied with the Dust Deputy for reducing the number of times I have to dump the shop-vac, it doesn't do much for airborne dust. If you've got the space, this is the next area I'd look to improve (especially if you eventually want to get a drum sander.)

[Matt Meiser]

dust collector - real one with decent filter. BEFORE a drum sander.

+1, and not a cheap one either. Drum sanders generate a lot of really fine dust. Don't collect it and you'll burn up wraps real quick. Collect it without good separation of some sort and you are going to clog up a good filter real quick, or just circulate it around your shop with a bad filter.

[Paul Shaffer]

My tablesaw fence is a stock Craftsman, but I have the generation that was the basis for the current Ridgid models and the fence is straight and clamps square every time (measured using A-Line-It). So it works for me. I really like the Benchdog set up, but would like a lift and bigger VS router sometimes.

I was leaning towards a drum sander.. but I understand the recommendations for a real dust collector, but have a few reservations. First, as Matt mentioned, bad ones might actually be worse then good ones because they just aerosolize the fine dust. Second, the ShopVac/DustDeputy pretty much fits in the knee well of one of my benches when not in use, I have a hard time figuring out where to put a "real" dust collector. The ShopVac has a HEPA filter on it, which I noticed makes a HUGE difference in the amount of dust that settles on surfaces in the shop. I understand one will be needed for a drum sander and is one reason I have been hesitant to pull the trigger on a couple of used drum sanders I have come across on CL.

So I guess the question I have is, can someone recommend a good, quality, fine dust collecting portable dust collector that has the capacity to handle a drum sander? I look at even the single bag units and have to wonder where it will go in the shop. For example is the Grizzly0548Z (2hp with cartrigde filter) on sale for about $400. How are the Grizzly cartridges? Should I bypass them and go straight to Wynn? A footprint of about 3x2 with 6 foot height just seems massive in my shop. Plus I will have to build a baffle or pre-seperator. So any "out of the box" suggestions are welcomed. Restrictions are that it can't be placed outside or in another room the since it is a basement garage, the ceiling is just 7 feet. I can't run dedicated house in a mobile shop, so it will only need capacity for one machine at a time.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Matt Meiser]

I'd suggest that a better value might be something like http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cyclone-D-C-1-1-2-HP-2-Stage/G0703 though admittedly I've never read the reviews on that particular model. Over the Grizzly you mentioned with the cartridge filter and a pre-separator it saves you some space, saves you the effort and (not terribly big) expense of building a separator, and comes with extras you'll probably end up buying like the remote control. And if you ever decide to upgrade to a big cyclone, I'd guess significantly higher resale.

[Jeff Duncan]

I'll suggest what I always suggest when these threads come up....forget what everyone else is suggesting and buy what YOU NEED! What good is a bigger____ if you don't use it that often? What good is any tool you don't use often? If you honestly can't figure out what to spend it on based on your needs, then you probably shouldn't spend it. Put it away until you do know what your shop will benefit from;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Sam Stephens]

for dc, i'd recommend the delta 50-760. it's mobile (on a cart w/ wheels). the reviews are good, + i've been really pleased w/ mine (~2yrs). though the supplied filter bag is 1 micron rated, I upgraded to the wynn cartridge filter which is far superior in terms of performance. Also b/c of how the motor/impeller is mounted, you can hook up a trash can separator under it and keep the whole setup on the cart:
255137
though i'd hate to discourage you from the planer upgrade, b/c i'm sure it would be awesome, snipe is usually a setup issue regarding the infeed/outfeed tables. i have a 2-speed 13" delta and mine is snipeless.

[Brian Kincaid]

You will need a solid dust collector before your drum sander or industrial planer.
Keep the dust deputy though, you will want it for hand held work (palm sander, etc)

-Brian

[Paul Shaffer]

Ok, so the consensus is that I should get a real dust collector. Its just hard for me to drop $800 on something that takes a fair bit of real estate and doesn't "do" anything. I know its necessary, its just in my head. Also, I didn't pay much more then $800 for all my tools to date (used of course). I don't see many 2-stage dust collectors coming up on CL, but I do like Sam's separator under the Delta inlet. Maybe I should go a different direction and look at some quality hand tools. A nice #4 from Lie Nielsen or something. Ah well, I think Jeff is right, if the choice isn't obvious, maybe I should sit on it a bit until I get in a situation where I "need" a tool to complete a job. But keep the suggestion coming, because LOML might find a way to spend it before I do ;).

Cheers.

[Dave Zellers]

... and then plan to move on to period reproduction furniture for our bedroom.

This says hand tools to me. (as it did before :D) And a decent workbench. With a woodworking vise. In your garage situation, maybe one that is hinged to the wall and folds down.

[Paul Shaffer]

So, there is a Delta 1 hp dust collector like Sam's on CL for $150. I could build a trash can separator, ala Sam. CFM is 650... is that sufficient with a separator for single tool use on short lengths of smooth hose?

As far as bench, I built a base from 8/4 red oak laminated up 3"+ thick for legs. The top is the laminated maple tops from woodcraft, 1 3/4" thick I think. Works great. I have a cheap Groz front vise that my dad gave me that is sub-par. I am thinking about using some of the money for 8/4 maple and building a real 4"+ apron and putting on a decent front and shoulder vise. Thoughts? Recommendations? Also, it seems to me that LN planes (if not dropped/beaten) maintain their resale very well if I decide I don't like hand tools.

Thanks again.

[Mark Rakestraw]

[QUOTE=Paul Shaffer;2068699]Ok, so the consensus is that I should get a real dust collector. Its just hard for me to drop $800 on something that takes a fair bit of real estate and doesn't "do" anything. I know its necessary, its just in my head.
Oh but the dust collector does "do something". It will keep you from having to drag around oxygen tanks. Read Bill Pentz's site. Then spend the money on something that will protect your lungs. Matt's suggestion looks promising, just make sure the filter is good enough.

[Kent A Bathurst]

And now, for the contrarian point of view...............

Drop one large on this. No electrons need die. Will be treasured by your great-great-grandkids.

Briese planes........

http://www.breseplane.com/DSC_5539_800x555.jpg

[Ray Newman]

Jeff Duncan is 'spot-on.'

[Rich Aldrich]

I agree with the dust collector before a drum sander. I would recommend a cylcone, but I would go with a Clearvue. It has a lot of science and engineering that went into the design. It was designed based of Bill Pentz. He has a lot of good information about dust collection on his website. I have a Clearvue 1800CV and it really works well. The key is it doesnt clog the filters like a lot of the others. The key is the design of the cyclone body and dropping out all of the fine dust before the air goes to the filters. I have had mine since 2007 and havent had to clean the filters yet. I did clean them once, but got so little dust out of them, it will be a while before I clena them again.

[Paul Shaffer]

Unfortunately, the Clearvues are 8ft tall and my shop is 7ft tall. The best I think I can hope for at this point is either the Grizzly cyclone that Matt recommended or a regular dust collector with a pre-separator and a Wynn cartridge filter. I am a scientist by day, so I understand all the stuff about fine dust and such at Bill's site and really appreciate all the effort he has put into the research. I can't seem to find here or on Bill's website an evaluation of a regular (say Reliant or HF) dust collector fitted with a Wynn cartridge and a pre-separator compared to a full-fledged Clearvue cyclone.

On a separate note, I am going to look at a used G0456 drum sander (16/32 open end) on Monday evening. Yeah, yeah, I need a dust collector, but for now I will wear a respirator and just leave for a few hours after I am done until I get my dust collection worked out. Anyway, what should I look for in the drum sander? I figured conveyor condition, and bearing condition, but what else can go wrong with these machines? Also, it only has a 2 1/2" dust port, so will a big dust collector really be able to pull that many FPM through such a tight orifice?

If I can get the dust collector and drum sander for the right price, plus $150 for a Wynn filter, I might still have enough money for a really sweet plane and bench vise. Life is good ;).

Cheers.

[Roy Harding]

I don't understand the burning "need" to spend money on tools. I really don't think that wise tooling decisions are based on having spare cash laying around. To me, tooling decisions are based upon what I want to achieve - then looking at the best/easiest/quickest way of achieving it. Having tools for the sake of having tools doesn't make sense to me.

Rather than spending your money on tooling that you aren't sure you need, why not spend money on good stock for future projects?

[Paul Shaffer]

I guess I get your point about not spending money for the sake of spending money. I am in the middle of building my kitchen cabinets (just finished the face frames today, on to doors tomorrow) and think that a drum sander would be quite nice for making sure all the rails and stiles for the doors are matched in thickness before running the cope and stick joinery. Also, the drum sander would be quite nice for the flat panels for the doors. I spent the money on good material from Irion, so good that I won't have a single glue'd up panel in the whole kitchen because they found some awesome wide, clear stock. I am taking this said stock to a lumberyard that has a 30" surfacing planer and separate thickness to get it close to final thickness because I could never afford the machinery to do this wood justice. So I understand your points about getting tools you need. I have been looking for a drum sander on CL for 6 months, but with a VERY restricted budget that has suddenly loosened up a bit. Anyway, perhaps that is why I came on here with my inquire, for opinions like this that tell me to save my money, but on the other sand, I really think some tools "pay" for themselves in headaches and time (especially for a few hours a week hobbiest). Believe me, I am a tight wad, so I get your point. But I have the chance to splurge a little bit and want to make it count based on need and flexibility. What's the point of a promotion, raise and bonus if you don't enjoy it a little ;).

[Roy Turbett]

One of the best new tools in my shop is an electric leaf blower. I have a 3 hp dust collector but no matter how good your dust collection, there is always something left behind. I sweep up the big pieces and the leaf blower takes care of the rest.

[Rich Aldrich]

[QUOTE=Paul Shaffer;2069385]Unfortunately, the Clearvues are 8ft tall and my shop is 7ft tall.


The real issue with the Clearvue height is the garbage can and Wynn filters stacked. You might be able find a shorter container and possibly do something with the filters - like put them in parrallel. or horizontal. I dont think there is anything special about stacking them on top of each other. Just a suggestion. You wont have to clean the filter very often because it dumps everything in the container under the cyclone. This is an issue with other designs.

[Thomas Canfield]

Some good suggestions about table saw fence and dust collection. I would add a floor mount drill press and auzillary table for consideration. I know when I went from a benchtop to a floor mount with the extra depth, longer quill travel, and larger table, my drill press work went a lot easier. My drill press gets a lot of use, and a benchtop would only handle about 25% of what I need today.

[johnny means]

Paul, I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but drum sanders do not work without sufficient dust collection. The conveyor belts become slippery and the drum becomes coated in dust as well as depositing it onto the work piece just as it reaches the drum. Just something to keep in mind. Personally, I don't really see the benefit of large format surface sanders in the small shop. That's a lot of investment in smoothing a few sticks and they are not as fast as you might think. Is your clamp collection up to par? I find that is where most small shops are sorely lacking. I find that clamps are probably one of the best investments I ever made.

[Chris E Smith]

And now for an even more "contrary" view. Since you already have the basics in woodworking tools.
Buy a wire feed or tig welder and learn how to use it. It will open up a world of projects complimentary to your woodworking hobby.

[Paul Shaffer]

Metal working... Tried a little in my youth, fixing antique cars with my dad. Not exactly the same thing as you are suggesting, but not really something I remember enjoying as much as woodworking. Funny how an impression from 20-30 years ago still affects your decisions today. But I like the idea, it would certainly be nice for jigs and also, metal (by and large) doesn't move after you shape it (unlike wood).

The G0458 looks to have a blower and chip bag from the factory for dust collection, so I figured for now, attaching a shopvac should be sufficient to let it run appropriately, even if it makes a fair bit of airborne dust and necessitates a respirator. Experience with the G0458 to the contrary would definitely be appreciated. Also, does the G0458 have table locks to make sure successive boards are all processed to the same thickness? Has anyone attached a Wixey DRO to the G0458? I found one post on here, but no details on difficulty of the retro-fit. And its not just a few sticks, its over 140 rails and stiles and 35 panels, so that is a lot of hand sanding. Not to mention my planer does not have a head-lock, so thicknesses vary from board to board and thus the cope and stick joinery becomes an adventure.

Clamps are a great suggestion, and one I will probably take. I have a fair number of pipe clamps and a set of 4 Jorgensen parallel jaw clamps, but more of each would definitely be handy. Smaller clamps I also have a fair number, but as they say, you can never have too many. That's a great idea I hadn't thought of. Thanks.

[Jim Foster]

Drum Sander. I can attest to the fact they do not work without dust collection, all you make is a mess. I made a good bit of frame and panel paneled trim and the drum sander was a godsend. I can imagine for a set of kitchen cabinets, it will help a lot getting consistent panels and stile and rail boards. This does not eliminate the need for a planer and jointer on the front-end, or hand sanding by hand or ROS on the back-end.

To start DC, maybe you can find an older movable Delta or something on Craigslist like you mentioned.

A good block plane is very helpful.

Also, for the cabinets your making, depending on how you are putting them together, a pocket hole jig or biscuit jointer may be tools that will help on this project. Also, do you have a good dado blade. Most suck (IMO), and a good one may be a good acquisition for this project

[John Bailey]

I have the Grizzly 1 hp canister model. It's been one of my best purchases. http://www.grizzly.com/products/1HP-Canister-Dust-Collector/G0583Z. I have a small shop and needed something that I could move around. Since my shop is a one man, one machine at a time shop, I didn't need anything more powerful. It has really kept the dust down. I think this with a decent air filtration unit hanging from the ceiling is a great way to go.

There are two problems with this unit. First the casters are very cheap and need to be replaced, although I've yet to do it, so maybe it's not that bad. Second, the unit will not work with a planer because there is a cross bar in the unit to keep out large objects. The long strands that come out of the planer with any board 4"s or more get caught up on the cross bar and quickly clog up the hose. I, simply, direct the shavings into a trash can. I'm sure i miss some dust, but a planer doesn't make as much fine dust as other tools. The unit is great with dust and would work well with a sander.

[Paul Shaffer]

Ok, I have located a few used Delta 1hp on CL. If they won't cut it, perhaps I will buy the HF "2 HP" model. Either way, from reading Bill's website, I will be throwing away the bag and adding a Wynn filter. I bought a new ROS (Bosch) that I can attach to my shopvac for this project.

I have a "decent" pre-war Stanley 60 1/2 adjustable mouth block plane. It works, but is a little finicky on depth adjustments.

The cabinet carcasses are being CNC machined. I just can't handle 10+ sheets of plywood in my shop and I know the pieces I get from the CNC will be square and dado's perfect. (Even with the CNC cost, the savings they get for wholesale PF-maple ply nearly makes it a wash). I definitely have a good dado stack on the wishlist when I come across a need for it.

[Kent A Bathurst]

........ I am taking this said stock to a lumberyard that has a 30" surfacing planer and separate thickness to get it close to final thickness


I don't know what species you are using, but.............

From my personal book of Lessons Learned: Along with your panels, take an extra representative example - width more important than the actual length, IMO. Have that run thru the surfacing planer......inspect it.....run thru thickness planer......inspect it. Then commit to whatever you decide on the panels.

There is the potential for some breathtaking tearout, depending on the equipment, knife sharpness, care in inspecting the grain direction and proper orientation thru the equipment, and your species..


Drum Sander. I can attest to the fact they do not work without dust collection....

Well said, Jim.

That is true of planers and jointers as well. If you can't pull the waste stream, you can't run the equipment effectively. An extreme example:

One of my company's [well, the company I work for] manufacturing plants has a tremendous business opportunity that requires a moderate speed [150 - 200 LFPM] 5 or 6-head molder. The numbers don't pencil out to justify a 9-head 300 - 400 LFPM molder.

They asked me "how much for a solid used molder and the infeed/outfeed material handling equipment?"

Me: "Wrong question. The correct question is 'How much will it cost to upgrade the dust system to handle the waste stream, so we can even consider the molder? The answer to which is "$50 grand minimum, more likely $75K+.' "

Audible "GULP"

[Stew Hagerty]

Ok, here is my humble opinion... i too am in agarage workshop and have similar equipment, sotake from my advice what you want.
First, as far as dudt collection goes, you can get a HF 2hp unit, put on a Wynn filter, and add a trash can cyclone for a fraction of these other units and still have a very good system. It can also be dismounted and the various components mounted an the wall or elsewhere.
Second, a couple others have mentioned this as well,,, Hand tools. If you have a couple of nice planes (and a way to keep them sharp) you would have no need for the drum sander. I started picking upa few vintage planes here and there and after some cleaning & tuning found them truely wonderful to use. I you want new, I would suggest the Veritas Bevel Up line. Of course you can'tgo wrong with Lie Nielsen either.
Someone also mentioned a workbench. If you don't have a good solid one with real vises and dog holes I would strongly recommend that be a high priority. Even if it is a wall mounted fold-down model.

[Cary Falk]

The G0458 looks to have a blower and chip bag from the factory for dust collection, so I figured for now, attaching a shopvac should be sufficient to let it run appropriately, even if it makes a fair bit of airborne dust and necessitates a respirator. Experience with the G0458 to the contrary would definitely be appreciated. Also, does the G0458 have table locks to make sure successive boards are all processed to the same thickness? Has anyone attached a Wixey DRO to the G0458? I found one post on here, but no details on difficulty of the retro-fit. And its not just a few sticks, its over 140 rails and stiles and 35 panels, so that is a lot of hand sanding. Not to mention my planer does not have a head-lock, so thicknesses vary from board to board and thus the cope and stick joinery becomes an adventure.



The G0458 does not have table locks. It has a chain tensoner that can be adjusted to resist the table movement. On a drum sander you are not taking a large chunk off so the table shouldn't be moving. I am guessing the bag it comes is 30 um or greater which is not good. I have always had mine hooked to a dust collector.

[Paul Shaffer]

Thanks for all the suggestions. It happened that a Grizzly 18" open ended drum sander showed up on CL the other day and I was able to get it for a pretty good price. It amazes me that more people aren't killed by their machines. The pressure plates in the drum sander were horribly misaligned and one was missing the set screw all together. Its amazing that the wood didn't shoot back out the front of the sander. Also, the set screw on the motor pulley was loose and when I was tensioning the belt (it was crazy loose), it almost fell off in my hand. If that had come off at 3450 rpm... bad news. Anyway, I am in the process of aligning, cleaning, lubing and learning how to not burn the sanding belts. It works very well, but I still have some more fettering to do.

Ordered more from Grizzly along with their small ceiling air cleaner. The belt sander works fine with just my shopvac/dust deputy attached, but I can see dust escaping, so I am on the CL prowl for a dust collector. If one doesn't show up soon, I will go the HF/Wynn Cartridge/Thien baffle route. Total for air cleaner, drum sander and HF dust collector will be right at or less then the 1k I was aiming for, so I am very happy. After the kitchen is built, the next priority is to build the apron on my bench and get decent vises and work on my hand tool techniques for the period furniture.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

[Cary Falk]

I am sure you will get your money's worth out of it. I got mine used also and it has more then paid for itself.

[Rod Sheridan]

Ok, so the consensus is that I should get a real dust collector. Its just hard for me to drop $800 on something that takes a fair bit of real estate and doesn't "do" anything. I know its necessary, its just in my head. .

Cheers.

Except prolong your life...........LOL

Paul, you've hit the nail on the head, dust collection doesn't "make" anything in a shop, except make the shop much more enjoyable and safer to work in.

I had the same decision process befor purchasing my Oneida cyclone, however my wife stepped in and told me to smarten up and get a good dust collector. Of course she's also the person that told me I needed to get rid of the General cabinet saw when she saw the Saw Stop at a show..........Rod.

[Paul Shaffer]

Alright, now for dust collectors. From my reading, the key is CFM and the filtration. You want filtration of sub-micron particles, which means canisters, not bags. Everything else (cyclones, baffles, trashcans) just keep the filters running efficiently longer, correct? Now the CFM is where I get confused because many of my tools only have 2.5 inch ports, so I am not going to pull really high CFM's (600+) no matter how big the motor/impeller are, right? So, given that I am going to have to choke down diameter (and increase the static pressure), how big a motor/impeller do I really need? It will be hooked up to one tool at a time with short (<6') of hose. All the stuff on Bill Pentz's web site seems geared towards professional tools (4" ports that he opens up even more) and ducted systems, but I did find this quote:
For those who move a dust collector from machine to machine they can get buy with a good quality 1.5 hp dust collector that turns at least an 11" impeller.
The HF seems to have a 9-10" impeller, so it might not move air...

I am really in the weeds here, so real world experience with similar shops would be greatly appreciated.

[Julie Moriarty]

dust collector - real one with decent filter. BEFORE a drum sander.

Totally agree here. And make it a cyclone if you can. Good dust collection makes the workshop a better place to be and keeps you a healthier person.

[Julie Moriarty]

Ok, so the consensus is that I should get a real dust collector. Its just hard for me to drop $800 on something that takes a fair bit of real estate and doesn't "do" anything. I know its necessary, its just in my head.

Amazon has a used DELTA 50-850 1-1/2-Horsepower 1200 CFM Vertical Bag Dust Collector, 115-Volt 1-Phase for $410.91. You can probably do better than that if you do some searching. Your lungs will love you long time. :rolleyes:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21kZQoaZlrL.jpg

I've had dust collection for around 20 years and know without it I would have had to retire from woodworking. I'd probably be connected to an oxygen mask by now without it. Here's mine:
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/dc/dc_after.jpg
I just built the cyclone topper about a year ago and it works awesome!

[Julie Moriarty]

For your dust collection, if you put the DC in a stationery position, you can exhaust the dust that normally would be caught by the filter to the outside. I've been running that way for years. No filter cleanings, no filter changes, no clogged filters, no filter cost. And if your DC is efficient, all the exhaust dust will just dissipate outside. I just installed a 4" dryer vent outside and connected it to the exhaust end on the DC. Without the filter bag, the DC is much more powerful.

[Ole Anderson]

How about taking a trip to your local lumber mill and drop a grand there so you end up with a good stash of your favorite wood types? Spend that much and you will get a pretty good discount. And unless you upgrade your jointer, planer and dust collection, have them plane it to 13/16" for just a few bucks more. You won't believe how much time and how many trips to the curb with a bag filled with chips it will save you.

[michael osadchuk]

Alright, now for dust collectors. From my reading, the key is CFM and the filtration. You want filtration of sub-micron particles, which means canisters, not bags. Everything else (cyclones, baffles, trashcans) just keep the filters running efficiently longer, correct? Now the CFM is where I get confused because many of my tools only have 2.5 inch ports, so I am not going to pull really high CFM's (600+) no matter how big the motor/impeller are, right? So, given that I am going to have to choke down diameter (and increase the static pressure), how big a motor/impeller do I really need? It will be hooked up to one tool at a time with short (<6') of hose. All the stuff on Bill Pentz's web site seems geared towards professional tools (4" ports that he opens up even more) and ducted systems, but I did find this quote:
For those who move a dust collector from machine to machine they can get buy with a good quality 1.5 hp dust collector that turns at least an 11" impeller.
The HF seems to have a 9-10" impeller, so it might not move air...

I am really in the weeds here, so real world experience with similar shops would be greatly appreciated.

Paul,

I'm in Canada but have read user accounts of the nominal 2 horsepower HF single stage dust collector on the U.S. woodworking forums, including Phil Thien's 'baffle separator' discussion forum...... and the general drift is that people have been satisfied with this low cost purchase, including NOT adding a pricey pleated filter (realize staying with the bag is contraversial, so do some research, etc.).... since you looking at having the HF mobile, suggest you use 5" flexible ducting and, wherever possible boost the diameter of the take off attachment at your various machine to the same or 4"..... I use my shopvac and 2.5" flex ducting for a few smaller dust creating machines like a portable sanders, routers, etc.

I have an overhead air cleaner but have come to the conclusion - with the use of Dylos particle counter - that it is of limited value and that the biggest pay off is paying attention to really good dust collection take off points to your dc or shop.

Yeah, and consider hand tools more..... more peaceful and fun

good luck

michael