After the shellac - how to polish?

[Brian Kent]

I am trying regular Zinnser shellac on a couple of fruit bowls for our kitchen. I would prefer a gloss finish.

How do you polish shellac and how long do you allow the shellac to harden?

My first plan was the Beall buffing system, but I have experienced melting the shellac by buffing too soon after application.

I asked the same question on the finishing forum and was recommended to ask here too. If this was flatwork I would wait as long as needed then use micro-mesh on an ROS up to 12,000.

The reason I want to do a final step is that the nice shiny shellac has a little unevenness from overlap and I like the smooth feel of buffed over untouched.

[Bill Hensley]

You can use the same process on turnings as flat work. Use MM about half way or less through the grits to get the finish level. Then buff lightly with white compound, keep it moving.

Or just wet sand through the grits with MM to get the sheen you want.

I suspect others will recommend various other processes but the results will be the same.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Brian - turn the speed down on the buffing wheel. You want to polish the finish and that can be done at 700 to 900 rpms and it won't generate as much heat as soon. I agree with Bill - use a light touch!

[Brian Kent]

Great. Thank you.

[Harry Robinette]

Brian
I have heard that you can use the plastic Polish that used for the plastic pen blanks.

[phil harold]

Another option is french polish...

[phil harold]

Frenc Polish is an easy process on the lathe since the elbow work is removed
here is one take on it

http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/finish9.shtml

[Bernie Weishapl]

I agree that low speed and a light touch. Russ Fairfield told me one time that the shellac cure is the key.

[David DeCristoforo]

I agree with the simplified "french polishing" method Phil posted a link to. And for the final polish on shellac, the "old standards" have no equal. Forget buffing compounds and "micro-mesh". Pumice and rottenstone (available from just about any woodworking supplier i.e. Woodcraft, Rockler, etc.) applied with a water dampened pad will bring up fine gloss that will blow your mind.

[Jeff Gilfor]

I use shellac on almost all my work, big and small. I apply it as a friction polish (1/3 Zinser right from the can, 1/3 DNA, 1/3 tung oil, a bit of carnuba wax and I add a special hardening compound that you don't really need). I use three or four coats, applied using a good quality paper towel, at medium high speed, light to moderate pressure moving quickly back and forth over the piece.

I get a super high (but not plasticky looking) gloss that lasts; but only if you let it sit about a day or two before messing with it (simple microcrystalline wax and normal handeling is fine; just don't power buff until the shellac has FULLY hardened (about 30 hours depending on humidity and temperature).

Show or gift pieces get the Beall buffing treatment. Usually, I start at white diamond. Don't load too much on the buff, and don't buff any area too long (it is possible to heat up and buff away the shellac).

Since I use a proprietary additive, my friction recipe is extremely durable, even with daily handling; but any mix will be water resistant and durable enough for everything other than kitchen utencils and pens after a buff and coat of protective wax.

I will, if asked, send some of my stuff out to you. PM me.

[Richard Coers]

You do know that shellac has very little water resistance, don't you? So make the fruit is dry, and not around any splashes from the sink. It will water mark pretty easily. I really like Abralon pads for final sanding, then to adjust the sheen, chose which pad that gives you the shine you like. The 4000 for a pretty high shine.

[phil harold]

You do know that shellac has very little water resistance, don't you?
That's a wives tail...

[Brian Kent]

As I understand it, once cured it will stand up to moisture but not acidic - as in spoiling citrus. So we will be careful with that.

[Jeff Gilfor]

Shellac is actually one of the ONLY truley water resistant (some would say water proof) finishes available. When fully cured, it is only damaged by alcohols and strongly acidic solutions. Go ahead, look it up. I('ve done the experiments, and can confirm this to be fact.

[Prashun Patel]

Wives' tale or not, I have a shellac'd table that develops water rings when a planter is on it.

I've read a couple testimonials confirming that shellac can have better water resistance than what I've experienced. I conclude that the key is freshness. I believe - but have not conducted my own experiment yet - that fresh-flake shellac is probably more water resistant than older shellac.

[Richard Coers]

A shellac finished piece of wood, submerged under water, shows no effect after 24 hours? I would consider that water proof. Can you please document your experiments in another post. I would like to see the testing and methods used.

[Mel Fulks]

I have an old post where I tested with submerged pieces. Fresh mix is a big part of water resistance. Also the orange is rated higher than the garnet,button,etc

[Jeff Gilfor]

"submerged under water, shows no effect after 24 hours"; Who said that? I wouldn't submerge any wood article under water for any extended period of time unless I wanted to ruin it, or it had many coats of spar varnish on it. The water resistance one should expect from a good shellac finish should protect it from casual wetting (splashes) or occasional use with damp material (salad?). What we are talking about here, is a finish that won't get "ruined" by the water. There are a number of coatings/finishes that will protect the wood from water rot and leakage, but will still end up looking.. well... waterlogged, after constant contact with water.

[Mel Fulks]

Jeff ,the thread was in the finishing forum in 11-16-2012 and called "shellac". Has details and a good reference work.

[phil harold]

Shellac as a floor finish was commonly used in the 19th and 20th centuries, it also is very durable, and was used on bowling alleys for years...

Now shellac is coming back because it has no VOCs and ins becoming a "green alternative" for a finish

[Jeff Gilfor]

I LOVE shellac. Nearly everyone who picks up one of my "display" bowls in my house asks, "what finish did you use for this?" When I tell them about the shellac based friction finish (I call it finish not polish), they are amazed. Completely clear, shiny, and you can see the wood grain texture throuhg the finish. Hard to get that with poly or laquer (IMHO).

Ask the luthiers (stringed instrument makers). They'll tell you that shellac is the ONLY finish that should be used for violins and other frequently used instruments that are exposed to skin oil and sweat.

[John Keeton]

Here is the thread to which Mel was referring on Shellac. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?194335-Shellac/page2

[Brian Kent]

Update without pictures. (I am on a break at work.) I have lightly buffed the fruit bowls with white diamond. It is really beautiful. The only flaws in the finish are in the spots where it is slightly thicker due to overlap. I set it aside again to let the finish get a little harder to see if the light buffing will get rid of the thick dots. If not, I will probably just allow the flaws to stay and enjoy the overall finish.

I am buffing with a 20" drill press with stepped pulleys, at 540 rpm. After 540 the next step up is over 1100 rpm.

Since everything I do at this stage is 90% experimental, I will let you know what happens with fruit, wet fruit, and spoiled spots on fruit, since those things eventually happen. If it hurts the finish, shellac is easy to repair. At least this will provide us with another example of how it holds up in this application.

[Jeff Gilfor]

If the table has been "waxed," that can be the cause of your water rings. Even carnauba wax will show white water spots and rings. Microcrystalline wax does not do that. It also COULD be quality or age of the shellac. Shellac does have a shelf life (once reconstituted from flake) of no more than about 24 months (12-16 months to be safe).

[Richard Coers]

Update without pictures. (I am on a break at work.) I have lightly buffed the fruit bowls with white diamond. It is really beautiful. The only flaws in the finish are in the spots where it is slightly thicker due to overlap. I set it aside again to let the finish get a little harder to see if the light buffing will get rid of the thick dots. If not, I will probably just allow the flaws to stay and enjoy the overall finish.

I am buffing with a 20" drill press with stepped pulleys, at 540 rpm. After 540 the next step up is over 1100 rpm.

Since everything I do at this stage is 90% experimental, I will let you know what happens with fruit, wet fruit, and spoiled spots on fruit, since those things eventually happen. If it hurts the finish, shellac is easy to repair. At least this will provide us with another example of how it holds up in this application.

My shellac comment wasn't received well, but I guess I'll still help. Buffing is not for levelling finish, it's for changing the sheen. Levelling is always done with sandpaper, and a block, to level. A thick block of felt will back up the paper on curved surfaces. I sand to 600 to level, finer to adjust sheen, buff for high sheen. The only high sheen I like on wood, is when it has been dyed, to mimic ceramics. Wet sanding, since shellac is water proof, will be preferred to keep it from sticking to the paper. (Personally, I use mineral spirits. Just had to do that water proof comment)

[Brian Kent]

Richard, I am familiar with leveling on flat surfaces. Does the term also apply to round things, getting the high dots off.

[Prashun Patel]

If the table has been "waxed," that can be the cause of your water rings. Even carnauba wax will show white water spots and rings. Microcrystalline wax does not do that. It also COULD be quality or age of the shellac. Shellac does have a shelf life (once reconstituted from flake) of no more than about 24 months (12-16 months to be safe).

Jeff, that table was finished with Zinsser Bullseye Amber, which I believe is waxed. Does that have anything to do with it?

[Prashun Patel]

Wet sanding, since shellac is water proof, will be preferred to keep it from sticking to the paper.

Richard-
Get ready for the hounds! I am also a wetsand-shellac guy, but there are many who subscribe to "if you applied shellac properly you wouldn't need to sand". I'm with you tho. Brian, yes, he's talking about the same kind of leveling as in the flat world. It's less of an issue, since the light refracts in a totally different way on curved surfaces, so flatness and pore filling are not always necessary here. However, it does have a wonderful effect - as you know - on the texture. To this end, for shellac'd or lacquered pieces I squirt on MS, and rub it down with 400 or 600 gently. It should take very little effort to get it babybutt smooth.

If you like to wax your bowls - as I do many times with shellac, then you can just rub out then.