A #6 Smooth plane??

[steven c newman]

While working on a Pine tabletop, once I got it flat, I started to use a couple #6s i have, as smooth planes. 254891This one is a #6c, with a Berg iron. I also tried out a smooth bottom one254892Both seemed to do alright, even going over a few knots. I do have a few "regular" smooth planes254893254894 and I even tried out a #5A size just to level the surface a bit254895

So, anybody else use these big guys as smoothers???:confused:

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Steven

You can smooth with any plane, of any length. However a longer plane such as the #6 must remove more wood as it is designed to flatten the surface. A #6 will flatten at the same time it smooths. On the other hand a short plane, such as a #3, will follow the hills and valleys and remove a little of both.

Traditional coffin smoothers were around 6 1/2" for a good reason.

Charles will no doubt confirm that Alan Peters only used a #7. Actually he owned and did use other planes, notably a block plane, however did prefer his #7 for most bench plane tasks. David Charlesworth is another with his #5 1/2 "super smoother". However those that do this tend to prepare all their stock with machines, and so are already working with flat surfaces. If you are not using power equipment this way, then super flat surfaces may not be desired, and a smoother that finished the surface and removes as little as possible will be preferred.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Griggs]

I find big planes work very well as smoothers when they are used during flattening - as in the last step on a freshly flattened board or panel. I will often finish prepping stock by taking very light cuts with no. 6 as opposed to switching to a 4. Because the board has already been brought into flat the large footprint smooths fine and IMO helps to keep the board as flat as possible during smoothing.

However, once a board has been sitting a few days or after assembly smoothing in my shop is done almost exclusively with a no. 4 - once the wood has moved a bit anything larger simply requires me to remove more material than is ideal to adequately reach and smooth the valleys.

[Charlie Stanford]

Yes, my no. 6 often does a much better job than a plain No. 4. It's certainly probably the mass but who knows exactly. The no. 4 can chatter during the cut if pressure isn't just right. The no. 6 not so much.

[Jim Matthews]

What shape do you put on your blade for this task?

This sounds like a recipe for tracks, at the blade edges.
I don't like lugging something this large for long, it takes a Big Dog to handle big iron...

[Chris Griggs]

What shape do you put on your blade for this task?

This sounds like a recipe for tracks, at the blade edges.
I don't like lugging something this large for long, it takes a Big Dog to handle big iron...

My 6 is setup to be used primarily as a trying plane. So it has a decent amount of camber (not a ton, nowhere near what I put in my jack, but a tad more than I put in my smoothers). Track marks are not an issue. What does happen is if I'm taking fairly thin shavings the cut is not full width, but its still wide enough to get the job done. Of course, if the board is gnarly enough that I need a thin shaving, even when the cap iron is set closely, then its typically time to pull out a proper smoother anyway. I don't like hauling around big planes for long either. For me, when using a no. 6 as a smoother its really just a handful of passes with the grain to remove the last bit of any tearout and generally nice surface so its not really any extra work. Most of the time on show surfaces I do end up doing a handful of passes with a no. 4 after assembly, so for me to say I use a 6 as pure finish smoother is not really accurate. Typically more of a pre finisher (though sometimes final finisher) on show surfaces and a finisher on non show surfaces. It's really dependent on the piece of wood - the bottom line is at the end of the day if I can get a good surface off my trying plane and skip the smoother step, it is, for me, more efficient and keeps things flat more easily.

[Charlie Stanford]

It's a very gentle camber, all of mine have basically the same amount except for a Craftsman jack plane that has a heavy camber.

Grinding dead straight and honing dead straight and dubbing corners sets my teeth on edge.

[David Weaver]

Grinding dead straight and honing dead straight and dubbing corners sets my teeth on edge.

Ditto that. Dubbing corners just leaves a different type of mark in the wood than does leaving them sharp and untouched, ultimately replacing stepped lines with dull tracks.

[Doug Bowman]

My 6 is setup to be used primarily as a trying plane. So it has a decent amount of camber. Track marks are not an issue. What does happen is if I'm taking fairly thin shavings the cut is not full width, but its still wide enough to get the job done. Of course, if the board is gnarly enough that I need a thin shaving, even when the cap iron is set closely, then its typically time to pull out a proper smoother anyway. I don't like hauling around big planes for long either. For me, when using a no. 6 as a smoother its really just a handful of passes with the grain to remove the last bit of any tearout and generally nice surface so its not really any extra work. Most of the time on show surfaces I do end up doing a handful of passes with a no. 4 after assembly, so for me to say I use a 6 as pure finish smoother is not really accurate. Typically more of a pre finisher (though sometimes final finisher) on show surfaces and a finisher on non show surfaces. It's really dependent on the piece of wood - the bottom line is at the end of the day if I can get a good surface off my trying plane and skip the smoother step, it is, for me, more efficient and keeps things flat more easily.

i basically prep all my bevel down blades the same ( exception being my 5 which has an approximately 10" radius) i use an eclipse style jig - 4 to 5 strokes with pressure on each corner on the 2nd to last and last grit - back bevel with whatever the eclipse gives me flipped over and my 4, 7 and 8 can all easily produce the same surface. Yes I set the cut fairly light to the jointers but I can be done with just 2 planes from rough sawn to ready for finish. Does it always work - no. But if I have tear out I'm going to my LAJ with a high angle blade. And let's face it an LAJ is almost the size of a 6

[Derek Cohen]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Charlie Stanford http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=2067136#post2067136)

Grinding dead straight and honing dead straight and dubbing corners sets my teeth on edge.



David replied: Ditto that. Dubbing corners just leaves a different type of mark in the wood than does leaving them sharp and untouched, ultimately replacing stepped lines with dull tracks.

Agreed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

Both of my #6s are straight across the edge. There is a small amount of camber, right on the corners. I also use an older 5-1/2 ( a Union #5A) at diagonals to help flatten boards. I went back over that pine top with a well-tuned Millers Falls #8, just to find any hills in the surface.

I will be adding a beveled edge to the table top. Last time it was with a #3, and a block plane ( #18) on the end grain ends, and a #6 on the long grain sides. Seemed to do OK.

[Charlie Stanford]

Ditto that. Dubbing corners just leaves a different type of mark in the wood than does leaving them sharp and untouched, ultimately replacing stepped lines with dull tracks.

Yep, you can't skew/slew a plane with a straight iron and dubbed corners unless the surface is dead flat without risk of producing serious plane tracks as the plane enters and leaves a swale in the surface.

[steven c newman]

Results of Dub Corner work254910Left behind by the slightly cambered #5-1/2. I wound up taking a #6 down through that area, until the grooviness was gone. I do have a #5 for scrub work, when needed254912About an 8" camber to the iron. The face in the picture was full of bowed wood, one plank was bow up in the middle, the other was on the edges. Cut from the same board, even. Scrubbed it close to flat, and then the #6s took over.

[Jim Koepke]

One of my #6s is used to get rid of the saw marks or rough surface on boards. Sometimes the thicker cuts will leave a little tear out. When all the saw marks are taken care of the blade is dialed back and a few very light strokes clean up the tear out. This is also how the (Hock) blades let me know they are getting dull. If it can not take a thin shaving without making ribbons, it is time for a trek to the stones. Other blades seem to have different failure indicators.


The no. 4 can chatter during the cut if pressure isn't just right. The no. 6 not so much.

Is it just one #4 that chatters? Do you know when and who made it?

My experience with chatter is it can usually be tuned out on most planes. Some more modern planes and some of the early discount models may suffer the chatters for eternity.

jtk

[Doug Bowman]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Charlie Stanford http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=2067136#post2067136)

Grinding dead straight and honing dead straight and dubbing corners sets my teeth on edge

David replied: Ditto that. Dubbing corners just leaves a different type of mark in the wood than does leaving them sharp and untouched, ultimately replacing stepped lines with dull tracks.

Agreed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

was this meant for me?
maybe you misunderstood there is no dubbing going on I do 5 - 10 strokes to hone the "middle" of the blade. Then do 5 strokes with pressure on right corner and 5 on the left corner? All I'm doing is putting a very light camber on the blade. The whole width is sharp there are no tracks. I can't take a full width shaving. The only way to create tracks is to take a really thick shaving and expose the corner.

[steven c newman]

Not my intention to start any fights. As for tracks254924 This was BEFORE any regular sized smooth planes took over. You might notice the shine on that old Pine?

[Charlie Stanford]

One of my #6s is used to get rid of the saw marks or rough surface on boards. Sometimes the thicker cuts will leave a little tear out. When all the saw marks are taken care of the blade is dialed back and a few very light strokes clean up the tear out. This is also how the (Hock) blades let me know they are getting dull. If it can not take a thin shaving without making ribbons, it is time for a trek to the stones. Other blades seem to have different failure indicators.



Is it just one #4 that chatters? Do you know when and who made it?

My experience with chatter is it can usually be tuned out on most planes. Some more modern planes and some of the early discount models may suffer the chatters for eternity.

jtk

A little bump behind the mouth causes it to porpoise through a cut from time to time. I need to hand sand it out. Contrary to most, if the sole is not perfectly flat I'd rather it be a little concave than convex but I admit to having flopped back and forth on this over the years.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

was this meant for me?
maybe you misunderstood there is no dubbing going on I do 5 - 10 strokes to hone the "middle" of the blade. Then do 5 strokes with pressure on right corner and 5 on the left corner? All I'm doing is putting a very light camber on the blade. The whole width is sharp there are no tracks. I can't take a full width shaving. The only way to create tracks is to take a really thick shaving and expose the corner.

Nah, I think they were commenting on the oft-offered alternative to a slight camber like you use, sharpening perfectly straight across and then dubbing just the corners of the blade - almost "clipping" them" in a more acute diagonal 45 degrees-ish or so to the blade edge. I've seen it mentioned before, and tried it once and never again. As Dave said, it just leaves a different kind of track.

I like a camber to, because I get just a little more leeway in setting the blade. My old number 4 is a little pain sometimes to get the lateral just right compared to my 7 or my jack.

[Jim R Edwards]

I use a LV bevel up jack for smoothing. It's in between a 5 1/2 to 6 in size.

[Adam Cruea]

Depends on what I'm smoothing. I've used a #4, #6, and #7. I never used a #5 because I felt it was too narrow for it's length to smooth properly.

I'm looking forward to trying my new (to me) #8 for smoothing my bench top.

[steven c newman]

That table top I'm working on is a bit too small for this old guy254992Tried it on an oak 2x8. Bailey #8c, type 9...