Trouble setting blade parallel to miter slot in Grizzly 1023S

[David Masters]

I bought a used Grizzly 1023s for use as a beginner's saw. Admittedly, I don't have much experience in woodworking, but would like to build the skill over the next couple of years as a hobby in retirement. I've been trying to set the blade parallel to the miter slot over this weekend, but the closest I can achieve is .020 of an inch before the table top is constrained by the holes in the cabinet. Would someone recommend what I should do from here?

The Grizzly manual says that the trunnion might be marginally adjusted left/right, and arbor bracket can be adjusted as well. Before I remove the table top, does anyone know which I should start with? Would shimming the table top have any effect on parallel when the blade is 90º?

Some background: The saw was a Craigslist special, and I bought it as a low risk way to expand my interest beyond the 35 year old Craftsman radial arm saw I've had for as long, for rough sawing. The saw looked like it had a lot of time stored in a garage. I removed rust and replaced a bent shaft on the angle wheel. I've used both a straight edge and dial caliper to measure a marked spot on the blade. Just ordered a Woodpecker's Saw Gauge to get more repeatable measurements. But when measuring with the caliper, the widest inconsistency was only .008 of an inch.

[scott spencer]

Blade alignment should be an easy adjustment....no need remove the top unless there's an issue. There are 4 bolts underneath that hold the top (outside the cabinet) that should be accessible. Loosen them a bit, and tap the table top into position until the blade is parallel the slots. Get it as close as possible, then do the fine adjustments with the fence.

http://community.woodmagazine.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/15932i3E5D3E5E86D8D01C/image-size/original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1 http://www.dubbycrosscutsled.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/4boltCabinetSaw.jpg

[David Masters]

Thanks for the reply. It appears that the rear of the table needs to be moved to the left, but the table bolt is against the edge of the rear right cabinet hole. I attempted to then move the front of the table to the right, but then the left back and front hole becomes constrained. With three bolts constrained by the cabinet holes, I can only achieve a .020 difference between the front and back blade. I'm doing something wrong. I'll make another attempt.

[Jim Barrett]

Thanks for the reply. It appears that the rear of the table needs to be moved to the left, but the table bolt is against the edge of the rear right cabinet hole. I attempted to then move the front of the table to the right, but then the left back and front hole becomes constrained. With three bolts constrained by the cabinet holes, I can only achieve a .020 difference between the front and back blade. I'm doing something wrong. I'll make another attempt.

Most likely you will have to remove the top and elongate one or more holes....make sure you keep track of any shims that are between the mounting bolts and the table top. I had to do this with my General TS....once I did that I can get her to ~0.001 parallel to the miter slot. Once you do that then check the same with the blade tilted at 45 degrees. If it is out then you have to shim either the front or back of the saw...but get her lined up 90 degrees first.

Jim

[Shiraz Balolia]

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bpg39Lbwpu0/mqdefault.jpg

http://www.grizzly.com/videos/
How-To Align a Tablesaw Blade to Miter Slot

[scott spencer]

That's a great alignment video.

[M Toupin]

I removed rust and replaced a bent shaft on the angle wheel.

Somethings not right. It's possible the saw came from the factory that far out of whack, but I.020 is a lot not to be able to adjust out.

If the tilt adjustment shaft was bent then the saw took quite a shot at some point right on the tilt adjustment hand wheel. I'd sooner bet something inside is bent or seriously out of alignment, though it's also possible the entire cabinet is wracked. If it was me I'd pull the top and check everything over and figure out exactly what's the problem before I started enlarging holes. Also, if it's been sitting that long you probably want to do need to do a complete cleaning and while you're in there, replace the bearings. Even sealed bearings go bad after about 15-20 years when the grease degrades etc. Pulling the top is not all that dificult, just keep track of any shims under the corners and make sure you put them back were they came from. It's also a lot easier to get a good look at and work on the innards with it upside down. In short, figure out what's wrong before you try just masking the symptoms.

Mike

[Ronald Blue]

You definitely need a dial indicator setup like the Woodpecker before you do anything drastic. I don't think you can get consistency with calipers or a straight edge. Also do you know that the blade is true? You can rotate it when you have an indicator and check the run out. If the blade or arbor were bent that would make the alignment a waste of time. I doubt that you have a bent arbor but a blade could be damaged easy enough. Is this the saw that was on the St Louis CL a couple weeks ago?

[glenn bradley]

When you've done something a few times you can get a little cocky. I loosen all four bolts and slide the table over to allow me the largest hand room possible for changing blades. Then I adjust back from there. As discussed, one bolt snugged as a pivot. Adjust and tighten, re-check, adjust and tighten, re-check. I shoot for within .001" between measuring points. I find a blank for alignment (as opposed to a blade) more useful than the $100 aligner kits but, to each their own. Don't get me wrong, the Woodpecker / Pinnacle do-jobbers look slick and I'm sure they're top notch. I use a Freud alignment plate that I got on sale through Amazon and this shop made jig out of one of the trade rags.

254604

Obviously you want to use the same miter slot for both adjustments, blade and fence, so I use the left slot as that is where I use the miter gauge. In a perfect world, both slots would be parallel. I also find it faster with the fence and wings off to get the 90* and 45* blade to slot adjustments done. After that, add the wings and fence and do any tiny tweaks that may be needed due to weight and stress of assembly. Then you just do the fence to the same slot (the easiest part) and Bob's your uncle.

Add-on Note - - - Shop Notes Vol 13 No 77 is where I saw the dial indicator jig.

[johnny means]

My advice is to not pay too much attention to those who claim you need to dial a saw in to .001" or need machinist measuring instruments to get a saw up and running. Personally, I've been in the business for a long time and have never used anything more than a combination square,a machinist square, tape measure and a ruler to set up my machines.

[david brum]

I bought a used Grizzly 1023s for use as a beginner's saw. Admittedly, I don't have much experience in woodworking, but would like to build the skill over the next couple of years as a hobby in retirement. I've been trying to set the blade parallel to the miter slot over this weekend, but the closest I can achieve is .020 of an inch before the table top is constrained by the holes in the cabinet. Would someone recommend what I should do from here?

I have a similar cabinet saw, Shop Fox W1677. I had my table top replaced under warranty just after I got the saw. The new table top wouldn't line up no matter what I did. After repeated attempts, I finally realized that a bit of cast iron rib under the top was hanging up on the trunnion. A few seconds with an angle grinder, and I was in business.

One bit of advice: If you do remove the top, watch carefully for possible shims around the bolts that hold the table to the cabinet. They are paper thin, but are essential for good bevel cuts.

[Curt Harms]

Somethings not right. It's possible the saw came from the factory that far out of whack, but I.020 is a lot not to be able to adjust out.

If the tilt adjustment shaft was bent then the saw took quite a shot at some point right on the tilt adjustment hand wheel. I'd sooner bet something inside is bent or seriously out of alignment, though it's also possible the entire cabinet is wracked. If it was me I'd pull the top and check everything over and figure out exactly what's the problem before I started enlarging holes. Also, if it's been sitting that long you probably want to do need to do a complete cleaning and while you're in there, replace the bearings. Even sealed bearings go bad after about 15-20 years when the grease degrades etc. Pulling the top is not all that dificult, just keep track of any shims under the corners and make sure you put them back were they came from. It's also a lot easier to get a good look at and work on the innards with it upside down. In short, figure out what's wrong before you try just masking the symptoms.

Mike

I think I'd go along with Mike. Taking the top off is not a big deal, just pay attention to any shims between the cabinet and top as others have said. Clean everything up, lube the lift and tilt mechanisms with something that sawdust won't stick to - wax, graphite, I used teflon spray lube. Check the bearings. I have a straight 1023, very similar to the 1023S. The cabinet is fairly light gauge steel, If it went for a tumble, something could have gotten distorted a bit but I'm certain you can get it like you want it. I just use a stick with a round headed screw driven into the end. Clamp it to a good-fitting miter gauge (no slop), move the screw very close to one tooth and use a leaf style feeler gauge. Use the same tooth front and back to cancel any blade error. I've never loosened the bolts that hold the trunnions to the cabinet but there might be some adjustment there as well.

[David Masters]

If the tilt adjustment shaft was bent then the saw took quite a shot at some point right on the tilt adjustment hand wheel. I'd sooner bet something inside is bent or seriously out of alignment, though it's also possible the entire cabinet is wracked. If it was me I'd pull the top and check everything over and figure out exactly what's the problem before I started enlarging holes.

Mike

You make a good point. I can imagine how the force that bent the shaft could have bent or kicked the trunnion to the right. That is in line with the problem of my inability to tap the table to the right enough before the bolt becomes constrained in the cabinet holes. I'll pull the top off today and see if I can find anything out of wack. If I can shift the trunnion a little, maybe alignment will be easier.

[Bob Wingard]

My advice is to not pay too much attention to those who claim you need to dial a saw in to .001" or need machinist measuring instruments to get a saw up and running. Personally, I've been in the business for a long time and have never used anything more than a combination square,a machinist square, tape measure and a ruler to set up my machines.

On the other side of this debate ... can you show one single item ... tool .. vehicle .. boat .. etc. that responds negatively from a more accurate/better tuneup/alignment ???

Any mill/lathe/saw will perform better if tweaked ... some of us simply take it to a higher level ... AND, we generally purchase tools & test devices to make the task easier.

I can't believe the number of narrow minded people on the various forums who will claim that a super tune of ANY tool is of no benefit ... especially since they've been using a nail in a board for 80 years, and think there is no need to improve on that. If you are content with your "close enough" alignment skill, so be it but don't discourage those who want to tweak for more/better.

[David Masters]

Thanks for the link to the video. Special thanks to Grizzly for producing the video and also for providing copies of the manuals for these older machines on their web site.

There are a lot of opinions out there on the best way to align the miter to the blade. I've been using the procedure listed in the G1023S manual, but the video showed some tips that are helpful. I used a marked tooth on the blade as my measurement point and rotated the blade as I checked the front and back alignment. I started the alignment by using a straight edge in the miter slot and went to a caliper when I noticed the end of the ruler wasn't true. The Woodpecker saw gauge has already shipped, so when it arrives, I'll switch to that. Since my original post, I found something called a Mag-Dro that would probably make the caliper measurements more repeatable and accurate.

There seems to be as many opinions on how accurate the measurement should be. The Grizzly manual doesn't say. I'm going to shoot for as close to parallel as I can reasonably achieve. I suspect that the experienced woodworkers are better able to compensate for inaccuracies than the inexperienced.

Dave

[David Masters]

I saw that table saw as well. I bought mine from an ad listed in the latter part of December. I'm just now getting to the point where I'm ready to use it. As I said earlier, the angle wheel shaft was bent and had to be replaced. I hadn't noticed it when I bought the saw, so it could have happened when the saw was moved. I only remember the three burly guys I had helping me, had it on the trailer and strapped down before I could oversee the move. I removed the minor surface rust and then I had to run a 220v circuit in my garage before I thought about alignment.

Dave

[david derson]

<a href="" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.tinypic.com/29yqkhx.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>
Here's the one from st.louis CL 2 weeks ago, it's now in my shop.

Sorry for the link, I was trying for just the pic.

[David Masters]

I've never loosened the bolts that hold the trunnions to the cabinet but there might be some adjustment there as well.

I took the table top off this evening and inspected the inside to see if there was any visible damage. I didn't see any, and the inside was pretty clean already. I adjusted the trunnion a couple of different ways, but it didn't change the measured difference between the front and back of the blade in relation to the miter slot. It's still around .020 of an inch.

I'm going to call Grizzly technical support in the morning and see if they have any suggestions. When I replaced the bent shaft, I didn't have instructions on how to do it. I just reversed what I did to disassemble it. Maybe there was an alignment step I wasn't aware of. Otherwise, Jim's suggestion is looking like the best course of action.

Dave

[David Masters]

Here's the one from st.louis CL 2 weeks ago, it's now in my shop.

Wow!! The picture posted on Craigslist was lousy, so I wasn't sure what condition it was in. I only knew it was newer than the model I had just picked up for the same price. I love the router table attachment. Is it homemade or adapted from another table?

[Jim Barrett]

I took the table top off this evening and inspected the inside to see if there was any visible damage. I didn't see any, and the inside was pretty clean already. I adjusted the trunnion a couple of different ways, but it didn't change the measured difference between the front and back of the blade in relation to the miter slot. It's still around .020 of an inch.

I'm going to call Grizzly technical support in the morning and see if they have any suggestions. When I replaced the bent shaft, I didn't have instructions on how to do it. I just reversed what I did to disassemble it. Maybe there was an alignment step I wasn't aware of. Otherwise, Jim's suggestion is looking like the best course of action.

Dave

When I suggested to elongate a mounting hole it means a few swipes with a round file...you don't need too much. Believe me it made a world of difference in the ability to fine tune my saw after many hrs of frustration. Also what I found is that when you tighten up the bolts the table will move...a few hints may help...tighten each bolt a little at a time, over compensate for the movement...so set if a few thousands out and when you tighten the bolts it moves it to as close to 0.000 as possible...and put two washers under the bolt head with some grease between the washers....all these scenarios will help you get it as close to 0.000 but you need to have the ability to move the table.
Hope this makes sense!

Jim

[david derson]

The router table was in the saw when I got it, It' a craftsman, aluminum. Probably not a high $ unit but looks good and if nothing else will be good for flush trimming.

So far I,m really happy with the saw, still tuning it up.
Good luck with yours!

[Curt Harms]

I took the table top off this evening and inspected the inside to see if there was any visible damage. I didn't see any, and the inside was pretty clean already. I adjusted the trunnion a couple of different ways, but it didn't change the measured difference between the front and back of the blade in relation to the miter slot. It's still around .020 of an inch.

I'm going to call Grizzly technical support in the morning and see if they have any suggestions. When I replaced the bent shaft, I didn't have instructions on how to do it. I just reversed what I did to disassemble it. Maybe there was an alignment step I wasn't aware of. Otherwise, Jim's suggestion is looking like the best course of action.

Dave

Elongating a couple holes isn't the end of the world. At least now you know the condition of your machine and that there aren't any bolts or set screws about to fall out and no visibly cracked castings.

[David Masters]

When I suggested to elongate a mounting hole it means a few swipes with a round file...you don't need too much. Believe me it made a world of difference in the ability to fine tune my saw after many hrs of frustration. Also what I found is that when you tighten up the bolts the table will move...a few hints may help...tighten each bolt a little at a time, over compensate for the movement...so set if a few thousands out and when you tighten the bolts it moves it to as close to 0.000 as possible...and put two washers under the bolt head with some grease between the washers....all these scenarios will help you get it as close to 0.000 but you need to have the ability to move the table.
Hope this makes sense!

Jim

Thanks Jim! Worked like a charm. You were right that it only took a couple swipes of the file to enlarge the holes enough to bring the blade parallel to the miter slot. Your tip about sneaking up on the bolts when tightening was also helpful. I was able to set the table alignment to under .001.

[Jim Barrett]

Thanks Jim! Worked like a charm. You were right that it only took a couple swipes of the file to enlarge the holes enough to bring the blade parallel to the miter slot. Your tip about sneaking up on the bolts when tightening was also helpful. I was able to set the table alignment to under .001.

Great, glad you were able to achieve what you set out to accomplish!

Jim